posted 12-09-1999 04:26 PM            

I used a total of 50 tracks for my compilation entry, all on a VS880EX. It sounds as if we work in somewhat the same fashion, with submixes.

It really is a matter of dollars vs. power. When you think of what we have on our desktops nowadays for less than $2000, you start to realize that workarounds aren't so bad.

I guess it comes from the old days, when I used to slave two Ampex half tracks together in six feet of snow to walk uphill bothways to recording school… blah blah blah.

------------------
Mooseboy
More Moose for your mouse...
my mp3.com site

posted 12-11-1999 02:38 AM         

The 880 is no less an eight track than an ADAT. The 1680, to my knowledge, is the only machine to feature an "extra" two mastering tracks. Even in pro gear and eight track equals eight tracks, a sixteen track equals sixteen tracks, etc. If you want to use them to mix you lose two tracks.

That said, I sure wish Roland would give us 880EX owners the mastering tracks as well!

posted 12-11-1999 03:06 PM            

I continue to see posts that say you can't bounce 8 tracks from a 880ex down to two virtual tracks. I can tell you for certain that you CAN DO IT! I've done it a number of times. I've filled all 8 tracks with my drums in stereo on 7 and 8. YOU MUST HAVE A STEREO PAIR IN ORDER FOR THIS TO WORK. I always have stereo drums but it could easily be stereo keyboards or whatever. I then bounce all 8 tracks over to virtual track 2 on 7 and 8.

Its a little tricky because you do it in two passes. The method I use is a slight variation from the 8>2 bounce I found posted on this site elsewhere. I have not gone to the trouble of documenting the process step by step but I think the key is in the channel link function. You must turn the channel link OFF. When channel link is set to on, it locks two channels together and therefore will not allow you to record just one side at a time.

In simple form - you first bounce all of the left side program material to V track 2 lets say on track 7. Then in the second pass, you bounce all of the right side program material to V-track 2 on channel 8. You now have two new virtual tracks with both sides of the mix from all 8 tracks. The new V-tracks' stereo image is opposite to way you started but that can easily be fixed using the Track Exchange to flip the V-tracks.
After all 8 tracks are full, here's an example:
On the first bounce, send tracks 1-7 to v-track 2 of track 8.
On the second bounce, send tracks 1-6 plus track 8 onto V-track 2 of track 7.

I showed a buddy how to do this and he's gone nuts. He mixed 8 down to 2, then filled 6 more tracks. Then he bounced those down to 2 and filled 6 tracks again - that's 20 tracks so far. He's now just finishing filling 6 tracks again and ready for the third bounce. That will put him at 26 tracks. I don't know where it will end.

Obviously you will have to really work at getting your submixes the way you want them from a balance standpoint. I found that when an instrument is on both sides of the stereo image, I have to pull that fader down a bit to keep it from being too loud. That makes sense actually! Since I'm making two recording passes when I do the bounce, that image is being recorded twice - a little on the left and a little on the right.

If you work at it a little, I'm sure you'll be able to do it as I did.

posted 12-11-1999 08:37 PM            

I've tried this, with channel link 'on' to set up the routing for the stereo pair, then turned it off to attempt the 8=>2 bounce. Everything came back in MONO. Neither the relative pan locations or the FX locations were read. When I tried to do the bounce to one of the sides, the volume of the track I was trying to bounce from stayed at the same volume regardless of how it was panned. In other words, if I was bouncing the left side (track 7), there should have been absolutely no sound coming from say track 1, if I had track 1 panned hard right. This wasn't the case. What recorded onto track 7 was exactly the same regardless of where I set up the pan for track 1....

I am sure that many here would deeply appreciate it if you could give us a detailed step by step tutorial on the procedure that you are using. I know that I certainly would...

Thanks,

posted 12-12-1999 09:03 PM            

There are a couple areas that I'm still experimenting with. One of those experiments is testing to see which way is best when the track you're bouncing is panned somewhere between hard right or left. I tried two methods and they both work for getting the stereo image. One of them may be a little less trouble - fewer steps.

In thinking about documenting the process, it might be a little long for a posting. I might put it in a .pdf or text file that I can send to you.

Stay tuned!

posted 12-14-1999 02:39 AM         

Thank you very much in advance.

posted 12-14-1999 01:09 PM            

VS-880ex 8 to 2 Bounce
By Tony Newsom – awne@worldnet.att.net

The information below is written based on a song I worked on just a couple of hours ago to get my 8 tracks mixed down to a stereo pair. I’ll use specific track numbers but you can substitute your own track numbers. For my song, I had my stereo drums on tracks 7 (left) and 8 (right). Tracks 1-6 contained various parts panned hard left, hard right, and in between.

There are a couple things to remember – 1. You MUST have a stereo pair (1-2, 3-4, 5-6, or 7-8) in your 8 tracks to be mixed. 2. You should have the effects already recorded in your tracks. 3. You should get your mix all set up BEFORE using this procedure. Put your faders where you want them. Here we go!

1. Set the destination V.Track
a. Press SHIFT + V.Track buttons
b. Press SELECT CH EDIT button for track 7
c. Rotate wheel to select V.Track 2

2. Press PARAMETER until Channel Link = appears, use the wheel to select OFF

3. Press PARAMETER until MIX SW = appears, use the wheel to select ON

4. Press the PLAY DISPLAY button.
5. Turn off all STATUS buttons. No lights.

6. While pressing STOP, press the STATUS buttons for the tracks you want to bounce.
This is important: Since track 7 is my left side of the stereo field, the buttons I will select for this step are all the RIGHT side tracks PLUS any tracks that are panned in between.

7. Press the STATUS button for track 7 until it glows orange.

8. Press the FADER EDIT button until green. It may already be green.

9. Press and hold the STATUS button for track 7. You should see the SELECT CH EDIT button flash for the tracks you’ve selected for the bounce. You can add or delete tracks as needed.

10. Press FADER EDIT button until orange.

11. Press and hold STATUS button for track 7 and Only the SELECT CH EDIT button for track 7 should blink. Turn off any others that glow.

REMEMBER: At this point, make sure your mix is ready to go with the track faders, pans, and Master levels set to where you want them. YOU SHOULD NOT TOUCH THEM AGAIN UNTIL AFTER YOU'VE COMPLETED THE SECOND PASS.

12. Press ZERO to get to the top of the song.

13. Press PLAY and should hear the tracks you’ve selected from one side of your earphones or speaker system. You are only hearing part of the total mix.

14. Press STOP and then ZERO to get back to the Top of the song.

15. While holding down the REC button, press the STATUS button for track 7. It should blink red.

16. Now Press the REC button again – it should blink red.

17. Press PLAY to start recording. Press STOP when the song ends.

You’ve just completed the first pass and recorded one side of the stereo mix.
DON”T MOVE ANY OF THE FADERS!

18. Press the FADER EDIT button until it turns green.

19. Set track 7 back to V.Track 1.

THE SECOND PASS -
All you have to do now is start at step one again but this time you should substitute track 8 whenever you see 7 in these directions. Remember that your tracks may be different if your stereo pair is something other than 7 and 8. Since track 8 is my right side, I will select all the left side tracks plus the in between tracks for the second pass.

Once you’ve completed the second pass, you should have all 8 tracks mixed down to stereo on V.Tracks 7-2 and 8-2. To hear the results, set V.Tracks 7-2 and 8-2 so that you can hear them. Turn off all the other tracks (buttons dark). What I usually do here is set up a SCENE for my two V.Tracks. I also have a SCENE for all 8 tracks. This way I can switch quickly between scenes and compare all 8 tracks to my stereo V.Tracks.

TRACK EXCHANGE –
There’s only one thing left to do. You will notice that your stereo mix is opposite to the way all 8 tracks sound. Remember that we switched right with left when you bounced the tracks. You can use TRACK EXCHANGE to put the stereo image back to the way it was. See page 92 of your manual for Track Exchange. This posting is long enough as it is.

If you want to copy all of this, simply use your mouse to paint all the words and then use Copy and Paste to put it in your word processor. Then you can print it out. I tried to cut this down as much as possible without making it confusing. Give me your feedback. If I need to go into more detail, it might have to go into an Acrobat pdf file.

posted 12-14-1999 02:00 PM            

I'll give it a try either tonight or tomorrow. There's one thing that I am unclear about though, and that's this bidness regarding having the FX recorded to the trax to begin with. Are you saying that the trax to be bounced have to be recorded with FX inserted, and that you can't use them send/return by routing them to trax 7-8?

Thanks again,

posted 12-14-1999 02:31 PM            

There are a lot of ways to skin this cat.

posted 02-18-2000 02:44 PM            

SORRY & thanks for the info!!

posted 02-19-2000 10:40 AM         

I'll let you know how it turns out. I've always been sceptical of the 8 to 2, but I'll try it.

If I get in trouble, I'll holler, "Help Mr. Wizard, Help Mr. Wizard..."

posted 02-20-2000 02:50 PM            

At least with this machine you CAN bounce it down all on the same machine (love those virtual tracks!). It just takes a little working around to do it. I am hoping there will be an upgrade with the 2 mastering tracks soon!

I haven't tried Mr. Wizard's method yet, but I have always had a different method I've used for the 8>2 bounce.

I take four tracks and bounce those down to two on whatever virtual tracks, then I take the other four tracks and bounce those down to two other virtual tracks. Then I bounce the four submixed tracks down to 2, which become the master stereo tracks.

We definitely all need to unite to get Roland to make an upgrade for our 880s so that we can be able to play all 8 tracks while recording to 2 other v-tracks. That shouldn't be too difficult.

I will have to admit that when I bought my 880EX, I was fully under the impression that you COULD bounce all 8 tracks down to 2 in one shot. I was PISSED when I found out I could not!

posted 02-20-2000 05:27 PM            

THE SHORT VERSION:
1.) Track Exchange Track1-Vtrack1 and Track2-V1 to T3-V2 and T4-V2.
Original tracks now located as follows:
v2 - xx12xxxx
v1 - xx345678
2.) Channel Link Track 1 and 2 if not already
3.) Mixdown tracks 3,4,5,6,7,8 to 1,2 pair
4.) Switch to Vtrack2 for channels 3 and 4 (these are your original tracks 1 and 2)
5.) Overdub 3 and 4 onto the track 1,2 pair.

DONE

I understand from previous posts that step 5, overdub, can only be done with the 880EX (sorry 880 and VXers)

Benefits:
1. saves steps
2. can ride faders and change panning at
mixdown (no can do with VS guide method).
3. No need to swap left right when done.
4. The "MUST HAVE at least one stereo pair" requirment eliminated.
5. Can use different EFX settings for each pass. (Light bulbs going off?!)

NOTE This method cannot be used to mix down to 5,6 or 7,8 - (Subject for another post)

Let me know if this works for you. Gladly will write up details if enough interest.