#327334 - 09/26/03 03:57 AM
*** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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Jazzooo
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Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 56585
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
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Folks, I started this same thread at Dot's forum, www.studioforums.com. Since not everyone here visits that BBS, and since it's a potentially cool thread, I'm starting a version here.
For those who don't know me, my name is Doug Robinson and I'm a jazz composer and pianist, living in San Diego. I'm starting this thread to document an upcoming recording project which will bring Dot and me together again, for the first time! We're hoping that you enjoy following our progress and will participate with suggestions and comments if you have them.
This is a somewhat challenging project for several reasons, having to do with our musical and technical parameters and goals. Here they are from my point of view--Dot will surely follow up with his comments.
First, the music. My acoustic trio is called JAZZOOO, and while I'm hesitant to categorize us beyond "jazz," I will say that we're an interesting blend of mainstream and contemporary jazz with a bit of prog rock sensibilities thrown into the mix. At our best I consider us an interesting extension of Keith Jarrett's or Brad Mehldau's wonderful trios, even though I'm not on their pianistic level as a player. In general, I go for simple and thoughtful improvisations as opposed to mindblowing chopfests. Our original material, however, sets us apart from many working trios.
And it's time for us to record an album: my studio, my VS2480, Dot's engineering expertise and some very interesting new gear for the front end.
The instrumentation for JAZZOOO is simple: acoustic piano (my 5' 11" Kawai grand); acoustic bass; acoustic drums (probably my small, handmade Le Soprano kit). In addition, there will be at least one melodica solo, some electric piano (probably my excellent Yamaha S80 Rhodes sounds), and some 6-sring electric bass in key spots. (I'm doing some arranging for the recording sessions right now, so this might change a bit.)
At the core of it all, though, is the acoustic trio, playing live...in my one-room home studio.
That means the sessions will not only feature the players but also the engineer, all in the same room, in real time.
Ok, let's talk tech for a sec. As if most here need to be reminded, I am biased: while I appreciate the advantages of using higher-end gear and "perfect" rooms, I am pretty stubbornly in the camp that says "It's the music, stupid." I have recorded albums with pro engineers at Sony Music and Soundtrack in NY, and I've also done them myself from start to finish on a single ADAT or a Roland VS880. They all sound really good to me--not because I'm a worldclass engineer but because I am a) lucky, b) have excellent ears and c) have good intuitive arranging skills (which I believe are key to creative mixing).
If you haven't heard this (We've Got Time)already, here is an example of the best sound I've gotten in my studio so far: http://www.songramp.com/view.ez?sampleid=6952
The above sample was done with the instruments I described (although I'm playing my Azola electric upright bass through a mic'd Danelectro practice amp) on my Roland VS2480 using the stock pres (and two Studio Projects VTB1s on the piano), some Studio Projects, Oktava and AT mics (and two AKG414s on the piano).
Without a doubt, the biggest lift I get from working with a great engineer in a pro studio is not the sound, but rather the freedom to concentrate on the *music* instead of the recording process. I love recording on my VS2480, but the left brain aspect is always competing with the right brain aspect of making the damn music in the first place.
This is only one reason I am excited about Dot's participation.
Ok, a quick description of the room (photos to follow) then we'll get to Dot's involvement.
My studio is a converted garage, about 450 sq ft. I took great care to reduce the amount of parallel surfaces (two of the inner walls are splayed in the middle for 12" every 10 feet); we also raised the ceiling at an angle, which revealed some great looking rafters on which I've hung cool lighting. I've got several 2" panels by Acoustical Solutions which absorb extra bass in strategic positions. The room sounds great to my ears, whether I'm rehearsing or recording.
Ok, let me wrap up my lengthy introduction by telling you what Dot has to do with all of this!
Some months ago, Dot and I met online here at VSPlanet. We hit it off and he arranged to have some gear sent to me so I could review it for Digital ProSound. I enjoyed the process, but it wasn't something I wanted to do more of unless the gear was something I was specifically interested at that moment--again, the music came first for me.
At the same time as I was planning to record the new trio, Dot emailed and offered to set me up with some preamps for my next home recording session, with the understanding that I would be willing to write reviews. I countered with the suggestion that we collaborate on the new album, that he would come to San Diego as my guest and record us, squeezing every available snippet of quality from the new gear and my existing setup. To my great pleasure, he said yes!
At this point, we're looking at recording in the end of October or early November. I will let Dot talk about which mics, pres and convertors we'll be using.
[ 11-09-2003: Message edited by: Fool On the Hill ]
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Dougrobinson.com
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#327335 - 09/26/03 04:23 AM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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echomancer
Planeteer
Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 826
Loc: Lexington, KY
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This sounds very exciting! I know from here and home rec that Dot is a very knowledgeable and friendly person, I can't wait to hear what you guys turn out!
Also, this sample piece you posted is simply beautiful in both musicallity and production value.
I'm also very jealous of this opportunity as well as your recording space. Since I'm still a student in college renting my housing, I shouldn't be too upset I suppose...
Keep us posted!
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#327336 - 09/26/03 04:30 PM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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Waterman
Artist # 435
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Registered: 02/20/02
Posts: 6817
Loc: Atlantic Beach, Florida
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Very cool indeed Jazz. Keep us posted!
It is very hard to be both musician and engineer, I basically have to redo all parts since my concentration isn't fully on my playing when we record semi-live, bass and guitar direct in, drums live in the room. But since it's my recorder I can take all the time I want to get my part right.
Good luck with this new endeavor.
Pete
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#327337 - 09/26/03 05:10 PM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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Jazzooo
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 56585
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
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Thanks, guys. One big question right now is whether to record this at 96khz. The upside would be the audiophile audience--Dot feels it might be good for sales. The downsides might include running out of disk space and taking a really looooooooooooooooooooong time to back everything up!
Seriously, I've got to look at the manual and see if there's any kind of guide that tells me how much recording on how many tracks you get at that rate. We're dealing with 12 tracks--maybe 14 at the outside if we decide to add room mics. RIght now I'm not sure they're necessary but I'm open to suggestions.
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Dougrobinson.com
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#327338 - 09/26/03 08:11 PM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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Monkey
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Registered: 11/13/02
Posts: 1873
Loc: Kansas City
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#327339 - 09/26/03 11:30 PM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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GAWZDigitalUnderground
Artist # 39
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Registered: 08/18/02
Posts: 17600
Loc: Rock Star Hell, NC (Charlotte ...
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I see where this is heading, you guys are gonna double team us huh?   Sounds like it will be a blast! 
Terry
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#327340 - 09/27/03 10:33 AM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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Dot
Planeteer
Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 9013
Loc: New York
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Cross posted from Dot/Jazzooo Recording Project at studioforums.com
We're still in the early planning stages, but it looks we'll have:
Drums - 7-8 mics
Piano - 2 mics
Double bass - 1 mic/ 1 pick up
And I could see we also might put up a couple of room mics. My role in this project will be as an engineer and to work wirh what I think are the best mics and best mic pres for the job - and also bring in some AD/DA converters. We'll be using Doug's Roland VS2480 and I'll be bringing in the front end - and possibly a back-end which Doug doesn't even know about yet.
What I'm really after in my role with these recordings is to achieve the best possible soundfield, imagery, depth and resolution. Doug is already more than capable of getting a very good sound himself, and I'll be bringing in a no-holds-barred front end and mic selection – and contributing as another set of ears on the project.
These recordings will be a combination of efforts from Doug's trio, JAZZOOO, The Listening Sessions, Digital Pro Sound and various manufacturers.
_________________________
"I love those who can smile in trouble, who can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection." — Leonardo da Vinci
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#327341 - 09/27/03 11:21 PM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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trendannoyer
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Registered: 01/12/02
Posts: 1527
Loc: Ireland
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#327343 - 09/29/03 08:55 PM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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KenMeister
Planeteer/Artist # 53
Planeteer
Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 3607
Loc: Carson City, Nevada
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Doug (and Dot),
Count me in as your number 2 sale! I'd love to hear this stuff.
You'll be done next week, right?
KenMeister
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#327344 - 09/29/03 09:33 PM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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Jazzooo
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 56585
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
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Not quite next week! Thanks. Having spent as long as 18 months on albums in the past, I am coming to this with a very different agenda:
Two days in the studio with Dot.
Two days overdubbing parts after Dot leaves (sax on two cuts, vocals on one or two, some additonal keyboards on a couple.)
A week to mix it, and then another week to remix it. (These won't be solid work days, just chipping away at it in a fairly disciplined manner.)
And maybe one more week to remix it after that!
On another note--has anyone here been recording at 24/96? I'd love to hear what you think the drawbacks and benefits are.
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Dougrobinson.com
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#327345 - 09/29/03 10:18 PM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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bbadger
Planeteer
Registered: 07/24/03
Posts: 117
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
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Originally posted by Jazzooo:
On another note--has anyone here been recording at 24/96? I'd love to hear what you think the drawbacks and benefits are.
One drawback is that the inaudible ultrasonics cannot be ignored. A nice big ultrasonic signal (from lighting, computers, TVs, etc) can generate aliasing images in the audible range (through inter-modulation distortion) unless you allow for significant headroom. Unfortunately, you'll still have the ultrasonics on disk, and they can definitely generate audible aliasing images in the mix due to single sample clipping, even if you had good headroom at record time.
Try a test recording, export the WAV, and import it into your favorite wave editor. Run a spectrogram of the recording. I think you will find that there is a lot of junk above 20kHz. You will not hear it until it results in distortion products below 20kHz, which we might hope will never happen. If your recording space is ultrasonic free (mine is not), then the only downside is reduced track count.
The biggest benefit is that snake oil goes for more money than corn oil, although the latter is more useful. Audiophiles buy lots of jazz, and have lots of money to spend on things of marginal sonic value. Never underestimate the value of money.
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Brian Badger
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#327347 - 09/30/03 12:32 AM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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bbadger
Planeteer
Registered: 07/24/03
Posts: 117
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
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Originally posted by Jazzooo:
Thanks fro the comments, Brian. I'll run the test and check it out.
Ultimately, unwanted ultrasonic content isn't really a big deal. The problem is that you won't even know it's there until it eats up your headroom -- or fries your tweeters.
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Brian Badger
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#327348 - 09/30/03 06:42 AM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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Jazzooo
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 56585
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
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"Ultimately, unwanted ultrasonic content isn't really a big deal. The problem is that you won't even know it's there until it eats up your headroom -- or fries your tweeters."
This doesn't sound realistic to me, though--forgetting about the 2480 for a moment, are you saying that no one will ever be able to record at 24/96? Why would a jazz trio fry tweeters?
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Dougrobinson.com
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#327349 - 09/30/03 06:29 PM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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bbadger
Planeteer
Registered: 07/24/03
Posts: 117
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
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Originally posted by Jazzooo:
"This doesn't sound realistic to me, though--forgetting about the 2480 for a moment, are you saying that no one will ever be able to record at 24/96? Why would a jazz trio fry tweeters?
The problem is that there really is ultrasonic content all around us. For instance, sitting in my studio, there is a very loud tone at 37.5 kHz. I can't hear it... which shouldn't surprise anyone. When I record at 96kHz, that 37.5 kHz tone is recorded with great fidelity.
The "fry tweeters" part derives from playback. That continous, inaudible 37.5kHz tone can still consume a great deal of energy in your HF drivers, and if it is loud enough, it can heat up the tweeters to the point of thermal failure.
How realistic is this? Hard to say. I was surprised to see the frequency in the spectrogram, but I have looked around a bit, and found that same frequency reproduced in 24/96 material from other folks. Sometimes louder, sometimes quieter... I suppose it depends on a few things: what the source of the ultrasonic tone is, and how good the microphone is at picking it up.
Again, the problem isn't that ultrasonics are some sort of bug-a-boo... it's that you can't hear them, so you don't know that you are recording them or playing them back.
You would be annoyed if there was a loud 15kHz signal on your recordings, yes? You would worry about your tweeters if you played back a loud 15kHz signal for 70 minutes, yes?
Ultimately, it seems to me that cleaning up the ultrasonics of a 24/96 recording is going to be necessary in the long run. I suppose you could apply an adaptive DSP filter to the source to remove continuous tones, but let the dynamic, percussive ultrasonic content remain. I haven't heard of anyone doing this yet, but thats possibly because the impulse response of the average studio mic isn't good enough to capture much of the ultrasonics yet.
As ultrasonic capable microphones become more common, I suspect that this issue will become more apparent. Some day we may have to worry about VLF EMP bursts from meteorites in the ionosphere (which can be QUITE significant) or even distant thunderstorms at night being picked up on 192kHz systems.
I could continue this topic branch, but I'll have to start using RF engineering lingo.
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Brian Badger
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#327350 - 10/01/03 12:09 AM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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Jazzooo
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 56585
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
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"The problem is that there really is ultrasonic content all around us. For instance, sitting in my studio, there is a very loud tone at 37.5 kHz. I can't hear it... which shouldn't surprise anyone. When I record at 96kHz, that 37.5 kHz tone is recorded with great fidelity. "
I'm not trying to be obstinate, but if you can't hear it in real life, why would you suddenly be able to hear a recorded version of the same frequencies even if they were "recorded with great fidelity"? What is better fidelity than sitting next to it and using your ears? Seems to me that your ears are always part of the equation.
Let me ask the question with another, less hi-tech example:
My 2480's fan makes a noise. I can hear it from across the room. If I record with my mic in that same spot, I can also hear it on the recording. It isn't louder than I heard it from the mic position, though. Why would it be louder on a recording than in my own ears?
"The "fry tweeters" part derives from playback. That continous, inaudible 37.5kHz tone can still consume a great deal of energy in your HF drivers, and if it is loud enough, it can heat up the tweeters to the point of thermal failure. "
Why would it be "loud enough" to do that? Or are you saying that inaudible tones, ones that I'd never hear on playback, can fry my tweeters? Haven't there already been lots of albums recorded at 24/96? Is this a common occurence?
"How realistic is this? Hard to say. I was surprised to see the frequency in the spectrogram, but I have looked around a bit, and found that same frequency reproduced in 24/96 material from other folks. Sometimes louder, sometimes quieter... I suppose it depends on a few things: what the source of the ultrasonic tone is, and how good the microphone is at picking it up. "
Well, I know Dot plans to use some pretty good mic preamps, and also some nice mics to compliment a couple of my own. The only obviously noisy things in my studio are the VS2480 and the monitor. No computer, no flourescents. Synths will be turned off during recording. Are you saying that the noise of the 2480, captured at 96k, will be louder on tape than it is in the room?
"Again, the problem isn't that ultrasonics are some sort of bug-a-boo... it's that you can't hear them, so you don't know that you are recording them or playing them back."
I see--you're saying that I can't hear them on playback until my speakers break?
"You would be annoyed if there was a loud 15kHz signal on your recordings, yes? You would worry about your tweeters if you played back a loud 15kHz signal for 70 minutes, yes?"
Well, now you're talking about loud signals, as opposed to inaudible ones. i mean, there is always noise on my recordings, from my foot touching the carpet under the piano, my hi hat stand working, etc. Fingers on a fret board. But that goes with the territory. I'm not clear why inaudible signals would worry me, as long as they stay inaudible.
"Ultimately, it seems to me that cleaning up the ultrasonics of a 24/96 recording is going to be necessary in the long run. I suppose you could apply an adaptive DSP filter to the source to remove continuous tones, but let the dynamic, percussive ultrasonic content remain. I haven't heard of anyone doing this yet, but thats possibly because the impulse response of the average studio mic isn't good enough to capture much of the ultrasonics yet."
Maybe I needn't worry about it then?
"I could continue this topic branch, but I'll have to start using RF engineering lingo."
I don't even understand the simple version, obviously, but I'd love to have Dot chime in for a second opinon. Thanks, Brian.
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Dougrobinson.com
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#327351 - 10/01/03 05:05 PM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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bbadger
Planeteer
Registered: 07/24/03
Posts: 117
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
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Originally posted by Jazzooo:
Well, now you're talking about loud signals, as opposed to inaudible ones.
Actually I'm talking about loud, inaudible signals. The threshold of hearing at 37.5kHz is non-existant. The SPL at 37.5kHz could be 140 dB in your studio and you still wouldn't be able to hear it. At 24/96 your VS2480 CAN. It could be the loudest thing in the signal, swamping your dynamic range.
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Brian Badger
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#327352 - 10/09/03 05:41 PM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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Jazzooo
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 56585
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
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Well, as we prepare for the recording session next month, I'm trying to get the very best live-in-the-studio sound of the trio (piano, acoustic bass and drums) I can get without Dot's help.
You will notice that I have not attached a new sound byte, and that's because...let's just say that the rehearsal wasn't our best work. But the main problem was the acoustic bass. I forgot to take a signal from his David Gage pickup and attempted to get away with using a TB1 near the F-hole. Argh. I got more drums in the mic than I did the bass! We really need to build some kind of partial baffle for the bass and use a mic that is more directional. Any suggestions for free-standing gobos or baffles that truly do cut down (not eliminate, obviously) thunderous signals from the other side?
But the *bigger* news is that I got an idea from our own George Klabin, who just sent me some outstanding music (including his live recording work with the 2480). Dig this:
I'd been recording my solo acoustic piano using two AKG414s and an open lid. With the trio, of course, I've had to partially close the lid and cover the piano with a comforter to keep the drums out, meaning that the boom mic stands kept falling over if we brushed against the comforter.
Now, George recorded his live piano tracks by clipping two Oktava MC012s to the soundboard of the piano and then closing the lid. I thought it would sound too boxy, but to my surprise I like the sound better than the 414s. And now, my lid is shut all the way, making it easier to move around the one-room studio and see each other.
I still need to work on placement of the upper mic--I'm getting a little too much attack on one particular octave--butI can honestly say that this is already the best piano sound I've gotten in my own studio. Wow.
And the mics were the unmatched two I got from Guitar Center for $99 a pair! Right now, I'm running them through my two VTB1 pres. We'll see what happens when we use better preamps...
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Dougrobinson.com
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#327353 - 10/09/03 09:14 PM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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FalconEddy
Retired Mastering Marvel
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Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 10835
Loc: Litchfield, NH, USA
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I could continue this topic branch, but I'll have to start using RF engineering lingo.
Correct. 
Humans unintentionally introduce so many new issues for themselves with the continual advancement of technology, that they really need to stop and think about those ramifications BEFORE they've manifested.
A solution from thinking outside the box usually never comes into focus since most of us aren't evaluating the downside to forces that are inaudible or invisible. But, they still exist.
True, 24/96 recording has its problems. Most notably (from a technological viewpoint) IMD from combined frequencies within the human range of audibility, and the inaudible spectrum (to humans) in the upper frequencies. RF interference from the arc welding business next door (or a generator providing power), occasionally finding poor sample rate reduction algorithms (88.2K requires a 'simpler' reduction algorithm), dogs and cats living together, etc.
However, it's still a viable recording medium if utilized with care and forethought.
Personally, I prefer to track at 24/44, which greatly reduces the spectral range of ultrasonics. But, I have also recorded a symphony on location at 24/96 and 24/88 with great success.
If we had the incredible audible spectrum of a dolphin, we'd be screaming in pain from the ultrasonics we're bombarded with on a daily basis.
The bottom line is that if you want to 'set it and forget it', use 24/44. It's a format you're familiar with, and have had wonderful results.
. . Falcon
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. . . but, what do I know?
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#327354 - 10/09/03 09:21 PM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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bmushal
Planeteer
Registered: 10/31/00
Posts: 1354
Loc: Nashville, TN
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Jazzooo, when do you and Dot expect to do this thing?
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Billy
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#327355 - 10/09/03 09:27 PM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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Brianonymous
Planeteer/Artist # 99
Planeteer
Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 5635
Loc: Laptop
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Originally posted by bbadger:
When I record at 96kHz, that 37.5 kHz tone is recorded with great fidelity.
Very interesting... 37.5khz is an extremely common VGA horizontal sync rate frequency.
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#327356 - 10/09/03 10:32 PM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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FalconEddy
Retired Mastering Marvel
Planeteer
Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 10835
Loc: Litchfield, NH, USA
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... 37.5khz is an extremely common VGA horizontal sync rate frequency.
Yup.
Lots of things out there generating frequencies that we can't hear.
If a spectrum analyzer shows a stationary spike at a particular frequency, it could be a issue when recording.
A large spike will most likely destroy headroom (depending on the energy levels of the entire mix).
The only spike I remember was on location when pre-testing the environment. It was a 33.8KHz signal that was at a point of significant headroom loss (-100dBA), while the remaining spectrum (from 22K to 48K) averaged out at -118dBA when using a standard Blackman-Harris graph setting.
It's something you'll most likely run into if a video crew is on hand to tape an event you're recording at 24/96.
. . Falcon
_________________________
. . . but, what do I know?
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#327357 - 10/09/03 10:54 PM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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Jazzooo
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 56585
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
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Thanks, Falcon and all--we've pretty much decided that we're going to stick with 24/44, seeing as our basic setup is going to require 12 tracks, which doesn't allow for easily adding overdubs here and there.
The sessions are going to be in early November, Bmush.
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Dougrobinson.com
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#327358 - 10/13/03 07:40 PM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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Jazzooo
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 56585
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
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Cross posted from Studio Forums:
Whoa Nelly! Allow me a compositional progress report.
We just nailed a new composition that I think will set our trio apart from most other trios on the planet. It's very unusual in a few ways--difficult too--and truthfully we haven't gotten through an entire take yet, but I just edited all of our partial takes together into one 16:29 song and it's pretty unbelieveable (though I'm sure we'll make it a lot shorter on the record--no way am I backing up a 17 minute song!)
I've played the rough edit for a couple of tough critics out here and it's been exciting to see their reaction. I cannot be tempted to post it here, though, as a) there are too many performance disclaimers and b) it would ruin the surprise!
I was simultaneously playing a combination of acoustic piano, synth rhodes and a pad. For the session, I will probably play only acoustic piano and rhodes on the first pass, then add the rest later.
It's faaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssssssst. Our drummer, Duncan Moore, came up with an amazing drum n' bass rhythm that will have drummers wondering if he's overdubbed it, but it's all done live. It's a combination of blasticks (two in one hand), three fingers on the snare and both feet. I'm a decent drummer but when I try to it myself I sound like a pre-beginner. The bass is bowed for the entire "A" section of the song, so you get this rich legato melody floating on top of the frenetic drumbeat while I play bursts of romantic harmonies.
The whole arrangement is a study in rhythmic contrast. It's probably the closest thing to a Mahavishnu tune I've ever written.
And one last thing--it was definitely inspired by the Brahms Requiem, which my wife and I are singing in a local college chorale. I don't know what Brahms would think of the drumbeat, but I'd like to think he'd dig the harmonies.
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Dougrobinson.com
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#327359 - 10/13/03 07:51 PM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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Jazzooo
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 56585
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
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"I still need to work on placement of the upper mic--I'm getting a little too much attack on one particular octave--butI can honestly say that this is already the best piano sound I've gotten in my own studio. "
One other thing--I turned the the mic on the higher strings around, facing away from the hammers which really helped the sound (i was getting too much hammer noise). It's a good sound--I'm still not 100% convinced that it's the best I can do, but if I had to record the album tomorrow I'd be happy with it.
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Dougrobinson.com
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#327360 - 11/06/03 02:55 AM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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Jazzooo
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 56585
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
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Folks--
It's getting close! Dot/Dan will be here Thursday night; Friday is setup and drum sounds; 10 am Sat is bass sound; and recording for real runs from 11 to 4 on Sat and then again on Sunday.
Today Pete Montessi from A Designs dropped off a new DI box for the bass called the REDDI. A quick test was most satisfying, especially on the lovely Azola electric upright bass they call the Eurocoustic. Ultrabitchen--I have an Azola Bugbass that is really cool, but the Eurocoustic is a hollowbody, looks kind of like a stretch cello. I took some digital photos, but can't figure out how to post them! Dan will know...
Hey, Dan built a quick website for this project. Check it out: http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/jazzooo.htm
Pete M also brought an MP2 stereo tube pre, but I haven't spent enough time messing with it yet to really tell anything other than it seems promising for the piano mics. Oh, and he brought a goody called the ATTY, which we hooked up and used immediately--it's basically a little attenuator with a cutoff switch, easy to pop in and out when you're switching cables and such.
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Dougrobinson.com
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#327361 - 11/06/03 06:22 PM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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Thumper
Planeteer
Registered: 09/09/01
Posts: 54
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For those of you waiting for the CD, I can only say there is little doubt it will be some really nice stuff... I now have a copy of "SitJazzDown" (Thanks Doug) and it now goes for rides in the car with me all the time....
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#327362 - 11/06/03 07:12 PM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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Monkey
Planeteer
Registered: 11/13/02
Posts: 1873
Loc: Kansas City
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I have a couple of Dougs cd's and love his stuff. I have thousands of albums and cd's most of it is non commercial stuff. A lot of it is jazz or fusion.
Honestly I like Dougs stuff about as much as anything else I have.
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#327363 - 11/06/03 07:26 PM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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Jazzooo
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 56585
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
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Hey, thanks guys! Those are great things to read. I sure wish we could videocast some part of the sessions live--wouldn't that be a gas!
Rick, the DIFATS are sitting there, staring at me, daring me to plug something in! I don't have anything yet--Dot will be here tonight, bearing goodies though...
I just got finished assembling 10 ASC Studio Traps, the standing gobos with reflective and absorbent sides. These are on loan from both ASC and SE Electronics. Pretty cool--I've only played around with these at NAMM, but my impression was that they will help in a situation like the upcoming sessions. Right now, I'm thinking that we'll put four of them in front of the drums, three around the acoustic bass, and three between the drums and the piano. Maybe we'll just gang them up on the bass and drums.
I will definitely use them to surround my vocal maic when I do my overdub on I Guess I Haven't Given Up Yet. It's not that I want to keep the room sound out--I like my room sound. But I'd like to see what they do for the overal focus of the sound--that was the stunning part of the NAMM demo to me.
And should you ever buy these, be warned that sound is not the only thing they absorb. The black fabric is incredibly efficient at collecting basset hound hair.
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Dougrobinson.com
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#327364 - 11/06/03 07:59 PM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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Jazzooo
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 56585
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
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"I will definitely use them to surround my vocal maic ..."
Now that's an interesting typo. Did I misspell "my vocal mic" or was it "my vocal magic"? Hmmm.
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Dougrobinson.com
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#327365 - 11/07/03 02:59 AM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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Ismellelephant
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 71644
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Sounds like fun. I have few questions. Will there be any Beatle cover tunes and will it be available on Kazaa or do I have to buy it?
Good luck to ya both.
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#327366 - 11/07/03 04:02 AM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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Thumper
Planeteer
Registered: 09/09/01
Posts: 54
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You may have something there! I wonder if I put a couple of those traps on either side of the entry ways into the house maybe I can collect all that beagle fur that seems to show up all over the place no matter what we try to do! Maybe I could make some money selling them to PetsMart! Sort of the Ionic Breeze of dog hair....
Kidding aside though, let us know how you like them.
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#327367 - 11/07/03 05:40 PM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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Jazzooo
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 56585
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
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They could be like the security gates at airports, beeping when a shedding dog walks through...
No Beatles covers this time, Smelly, but we might do my arrangement of I Can See Clearly Now. And each track will be encrypted with a virus so if you download it from Kaazaa without getting written permission, it will trigger a chain of events that will result in your car automatically being repossessed.
Ok, Dan is here! He's very likeable in person, and a very good musician to boot--nice guitar work, a little drumming, a little bass, some piano...
Funny, the only gear he brought was a Stylophone, a Sony My First Microphone and some cables by Mattel...high tech all the way!
Still waiting on the Millennium 8-channel pre. This morning UPS surprised us with a very heavy box of ADK mics. The only thing from my mic setup we're using at this point is the C1 on snare. I love the way it sounds, and Dan's got no problem with it either.
Dan brought a couple of little Swedish small dia condensers called MiLabs. They look like space-aged Oktavas!
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Dougrobinson.com
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#327368 - 11/07/03 06:03 PM
Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
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bmushal
Planeteer
Registered: 10/31/00
Posts: 1354
Loc: Nashville, TN
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Doug, not gonna use your 414's on anything?
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Billy
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