#330906 - 04/07/04 02:42 AM
DVD drive specs
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spacefighter
Planeteer/Artist # 248
Planeteer
Registered: 11/28/03
Posts: 44
Loc: dayton, ohio
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falcon pm'd me for this info - perhaps there are others curious as well. New DVD destination drive reads as follows:
SCSIO CD-R
Matshita
DVD-RAM UJ-811
H100
-mike
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#330907 - 04/07/04 02:53 AM
Re: DVD drive specs
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WinyardPro
Planeteer
Registered: 08/28/02
Posts: 3947
Loc: Great Southern Land.
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Ah.... 
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#330909 - 04/07/04 06:22 AM
Re: DVD drive specs
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WinyardPro
Planeteer
Registered: 08/28/02
Posts: 3947
Loc: Great Southern Land.
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#330910 - 04/07/04 08:48 AM
Re: DVD drive specs
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Arjan van Gog
Planeteer
Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1243
Loc: The Netherlands
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The reason I ask is this... I looked up the Matshitia (aka Panasonic) DVD-Ram UJ-811 H100 drive... which is an IDE drive, not SCSI...
And I find it hard to imagine that there is a SCSI version with the exact same model number...
So... does that mean that the 2480DVD has some kind of internal ACARD and they are using an IDE DVD drive or ???
I have always been under the impression (no hard data) that both the internal HD and CD-R are IDE units and that the 2480 addresses them directly as IDE units. An 80GB internal SCSI HD would have been extremely expensive for Roland to put in the unit, same thing for a SCSI CD-R.
Another reason why I think the internal units are IDE based is that the external SCSI connector supports only slow SCSI devices. If the internal units were SCSI devices it would have to be an ultra/fast SCSI controller to support real-time recording of 16 tracks (while possibly playing back the other 8 ) which they could simply daisy-chain to the exernal SCSI connector, although that would require an external terminator to be attached (or some software switch for internal termination) to have the internal units working properly.
So, I think the 2480DVD drive is an IDE drive just like probably the CD drive in the 2480CD, so no need for an ACARD. If they come out with an external DVD drive then it might possibly use an ACARD to convert that same internal DVD drive into a SCSI drive.
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#330912 - 04/07/04 11:14 AM
Re: DVD drive specs
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SteveDWalker
Planeteer
Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 3036
Loc: Clearwater
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Originally posted by Arjan van Gog:
I have always been under the impression (no hard data) that both the internal HD and CD-R are IDE units and that the 2480 addresses them directly as IDE units.
Steve
_________________________
Steve
Roland V-Studio 100, Sonar Platinum, VS-2480HD, M-Audio, Korg,Alesis, Audix, Shure, Mackie, JBL, EV, Taylor, Gibson, Ovation, Ephiphone, Ibanez, Fender, Sunn 2000S
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#330913 - 04/07/04 11:49 AM
Re: DVD drive specs
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WinyardPro
Planeteer
Registered: 08/28/02
Posts: 3947
Loc: Great Southern Land.
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#330914 - 04/07/04 01:47 PM
Re: DVD drive specs
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Brett LaCroix
Planeteer
Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 2005
Loc: Newport, Oregon
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Matshita/Panasonic DVD-Ram UJ-811 H100
Here is a link to the specifications of this drive:
PDF format:
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/computer/storage/multi/images/pdf/UJ-811.pdf
Slim DVD MULTI Drive UJ-811
Internal Type
Features
. 2X DVD-RAM Writing
. 2X DVD-R Writing
.1X DVD-RW Writing
.16X CD-R Writing
. 8X CD-RW Writing
. 8X DVD-ROM Reading
.24X CD-ROM Reading
.Buffer Under Run Protection
Model No. UJ-811
ĶSpecifications
Interface IDE/ATAPI
Power Requirement Voltage DC 5V ą5%
Operating 5~50 .Environmental
Temperature Storage -20~60 .
Dimensions 128(W)x 129(D)x 12.7(H)mm
Weight 210g
Operating 10~80%RH (No condensation)
Applicable Disk and Disk Format
DVD-ROM,DVD-Video,DVD-R,DVD-RW,
DVD-RAM,CD-DA,CD-Extra,
CD-ROM(Mode1,Mode2 Form1),
CD-ROM XA(Mode2 Form2),
Photo CD(Single &Multi session),
Video CD,CD-Text
You can buy one here:
http://www.esbuy.com/paslno2xdv.html
It would be way-too-easy if it turned out that all 2480CD users needed was a $300 drive and an OS change to turn their 2480 into a DVD unit.
 Brett
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#330916 - 08/09/04 11:30 PM
Re: DVD drive specs
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Rag
Planeteer
Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 53
Loc: Liverpool UK
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Could the cd drive in the 2480 be replaced with a drive caddy to be able to swap between CD drive and a HDD? That would be handy...
_________________________
Rag
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#330917 - 08/10/04 10:14 AM
Re: DVD drive specs
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Peter Lancaster
Planeteer
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 2153
Loc: Chichester, West Sussex, Unite...
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Is the DVD drive hardware the only difference between the 2480CD and the 2480DVD?
In version 2.5xx there must be all the necessary software to cope with the DVD drive?
So if you have a 2480CD with ver 2.503 would you be able to remove the CD drive and replace it with the Panasonic UJ-811 that is used in the 2480DVD and expect it to work as a DVD drive?
Pete.
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#330918 - 08/10/04 10:23 AM
Re: DVD drive specs
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Biskopen
Planeteer/Artist # 95
Planeteer
Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 2399
Loc: Norway
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The HD and the CD-RW are both IDE ATA BUS. They use the old SCSI type connector merely as a strong-holding. It takes more wear and tear.
Remember that the first 2480(HD) was designed so that users could buy caddies and thereby exchange their HDīs. And this was long before the ACARD was out and about.
When the CD-RW was made, it would have cost Roland far too much investment to change the internal hardware, so they simply designed a CD-RW casing the same as a HD caddy.
The same goes for the DVD-RW. Itīs IDE ATA. Thatīs why itīs taking time with the external DVD-RW, because that must be SCSI. However, with the slow speeds that the DVD model offers, then placing that DVD-RW in one of Bretts Song Vault systems, would not hamper anything with regards to speed etc.
With the ACARD/Song Vault HD system, there is a slight speed degradation as opposed to SCSI HDīs, due to the ACARD conversion system. Itīs not a lot, but it is noticeable.
With the DVD-RW rated at the speeds it is (2480DVD), then I see no problem with a SCSI/IDE converter from ACARD or Brett La Croix. You canīt slow a DVD-RW less than it can actually burn/read anyway....
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#330919 - 08/10/04 10:27 AM
Re: DVD drive specs
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Biskopen
Planeteer/Artist # 95
Planeteer
Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 2399
Loc: Norway
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Oh, forgot to add this:-
The problem seems (to me) to be that Roland need to write the OS to cover the DVD-RW as an external SCSI unit. So unless they adopt the SCSI/IDE (ACARD), then they will also need to manufacture/buy-in a SCSI DVD-RW.
I will buy the above mentioned DVD-RW, place it in my external SCSI (ex Yamaha CD-RW casing with ACARD bridge) and see if it works. It probably will not. But I am sure it will if and when Roland write the OS update for the SCSI bus.
Someone with a 2480CD should get the DVD-RW and pop it in to the CD-RW casing, update the OS to 2.503 and see what happens. You canīt damage anything, itīs a simple IDE setup anyway. I am convinced that it will work - as long as the internal connector is the same. Again, it probably is - due to the fact that itīs manufacture would be too costly of course.
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#330920 - 08/10/04 01:18 PM
Re: DVD drive specs
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midisync
midisync
Planeteer
Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 750
Loc: Atlanta,GA
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Originally posted by Peter Lancaster:
Is the DVD drive hardware the only difference between the 2480CD and the 2480DVD?
In version 2.5xx there must be all the necessary software to cope with the DVD drive?
So if you have a 2480CD with ver 2.503 would you be able to remove the CD drive and replace it with the Panasonic UJ-811 that is used in the 2480DVD and expect it to work as a DVD drive?
Pete.
_________________________
-midisync
Sonar Platinum / I7 CPU Win7 / 24GB RAM / (3) 2 TB Drives
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#330921 - 08/11/04 12:58 AM
Re: DVD drive specs
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madbrain
Planeteer
Registered: 12/14/03
Posts: 206
Loc: San Jose, California
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Looks like the UJ-811 is available for 89.95 . Quite a deal if it actually works with the VS .
I wonder if it would work with the VS-2400CD ...
http://www.auctionworks.com/storefrontpr...4796&i=14643739
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#330922 - 08/11/04 05:58 AM
Re: DVD drive specs
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midisync
midisync
Planeteer
Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 750
Loc: Atlanta,GA
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Yeah, I saw that one madbrain, I'm a little concerned about that large notch on the right side of the faceplate.. What's that there for?!
_________________________
-midisync
Sonar Platinum / I7 CPU Win7 / 24GB RAM / (3) 2 TB Drives
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#330923 - 08/11/04 10:00 AM
Re: DVD drive specs
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madbrain
Planeteer
Registered: 12/14/03
Posts: 206
Loc: San Jose, California
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It's there for you to cut a hole in your VS to actually fit it ?
Seriously, I don't know. Try it and let us know how it works !
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#330924 - 08/17/04 05:00 AM
Re: DVD drive specs
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midisync
midisync
Planeteer
Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 750
Loc: Atlanta,GA
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#330925 - 08/17/04 10:17 AM
Re: DVD drive specs
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Arjan van Gog
Planeteer
Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1243
Loc: The Netherlands
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That is pretty cool, tell us more! I wonder if this would work with a DVD+R drive too but I guess not.
I don't have my 2480 here so what's that about the notch on the face plate. Is that what I see on the photograph bottom right? What am I looking at exactly?
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#330926 - 08/17/04 01:45 PM
Re: DVD drive specs
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Peter Lancaster
Planeteer
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 2153
Loc: Chichester, West Sussex, Unite...
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That is cool. So all we need is v2.503, a $90 DVD drive, a bit of time and patience and a 2480CD becomes the $400 more expensive (based on Sweetwater's website prices) 2480DVD.
Does anyone else think that Roland are possibly overcharging for the 2480DVD or have they been shafted by Panasonic on the price of some DVD drives? Maybe Brad would like to tell us the cost difference to the retailer of the different 2480 models?
midisync,
Is the drive tray of the UJ-811 any more robust than the original 2480CD (UJDA340) one? I always think I'm going to break mine whenever I put in/take out CD's. It's the flimsiest drive tray I've ever encountered.
Thanks for trying this out. I'm glad it worked.
Pete.
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#330927 - 08/17/04 02:20 PM
Re: DVD drive specs
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LakeStone Karl
Planeteer
Registered: 06/26/02
Posts: 15821
Loc: Eastern PA, USA
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#330929 - 08/17/04 06:32 PM
Re: DVD drive specs
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midisync
midisync
Planeteer
Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 750
Loc: Atlanta,GA
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Originally posted by Peter Lancaster:
Is the drive tray of the UJ-811 any more robust than the original 2480CD (UJDA340) one? I always think I'm going to break mine whenever I put in/take out CD's. It's the flimsiest drive tray I've ever encountered.
Thanks for trying this out. I'm glad it worked.
Pete.
_________________________
-midisync
Sonar Platinum / I7 CPU Win7 / 24GB RAM / (3) 2 TB Drives
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#330931 - 08/17/04 11:48 PM
Re: DVD drive specs
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madbrain
Planeteer
Registered: 12/14/03
Posts: 206
Loc: San Jose, California
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Midisync,
Glad you had success !
I would like to do this on my VS2400, however I'm not certain if it would work. The OS is version 1.503 for one thing, but it comes from the same CD as the updatte for 2480 . I assume they are at th same level. But I don't know if DVD would work on the 2400 - Roland doesn't currently sell a VS-2400DVD ...
Also, the case layout is different I believe. The 2400 has no drive bays at all, the CD drive is integrated to the center of the case ...
When you did your mod, were you first able to easily unplug the CD drive and plug the DVD drive, maybe while laying it outside the case, just to test this and see if it worked ? I think I would like to try that, and if it works have someone else mod the case for me ...
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#330932 - 08/18/04 12:57 AM
Re: DVD drive specs
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Marcel
Planeteer
Registered: 06/29/99
Posts: 107
Loc: The Netherlands
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midisync,
This is great! But what about the complete drive re-formatting? Is that really necessary? Is it because of the v2.503 update?
Marcel
_________________________
 See also the special site for VS2480 users in the Netherlands: vs2480nl.tk
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#330933 - 08/18/04 01:55 AM
Re: DVD drive specs
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midisync
midisync
Planeteer
Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 750
Loc: Atlanta,GA
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Originally posted by madbrain:
Midisync,
I assume they are at th same level. But I don't know if DVD would work on the 2400 - Roland doesn't currently sell a VS-2400DVD ...
Also, the case layout is different I believe. The 2400 has no drive bays at all, the CD drive is integrated to the center of the case ...
When you did your mod, were you first able to easily unplug the CD drive and plug the DVD drive, maybe while laying it outside the case, just to test this and see if it worked ? I think I would like to try that, and if it works have someone else mod the case for me ...
_________________________
-midisync
Sonar Platinum / I7 CPU Win7 / 24GB RAM / (3) 2 TB Drives
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#330934 - 08/18/04 01:57 AM
Re: DVD drive specs
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midisync
midisync
Planeteer
Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 750
Loc: Atlanta,GA
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Originally posted by Marcel:
midisync,
This is great! But what about the complete drive re-formatting? Is that really necessary? Is it because of the v2.503 update?
Marcel
_________________________
-midisync
Sonar Platinum / I7 CPU Win7 / 24GB RAM / (3) 2 TB Drives
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#330935 - 08/18/04 04:35 AM
Re: DVD drive specs
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rewind2
Planeteer
Registered: 05/23/04
Posts: 32
Loc: Columbus, GA
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Why couldn't you buy the parts and convert a 2480HD to do the same thing?
_________________________
Russell Ward
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#330936 - 08/18/04 05:03 AM
Re: DVD drive specs
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WinyardPro
Planeteer
Registered: 08/28/02
Posts: 3947
Loc: Great Southern Land.
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You can, as I have said many times the VS2480HD, and CD/DVD are identical apart from hardware installed. Yes, the HD can become a CD/DVD with the right parts. However, back-up speed and .wav can all be simulated with the right SCSI interface too.
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#330937 - 08/18/04 07:15 AM
Re: DVD drive specs
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Marcel
Planeteer
Registered: 06/29/99
Posts: 107
Loc: The Netherlands
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midisync,
Did you attach a drive formatted with the newest OS to a PC and did you see more than 4 partitions then?
Can you tell me why reformatting is really a must (f.e. is it in the installation documents), does it mean I can't use my 'old' drives with the new OS, since I have a few 'Acard' drives,
Marcel
_________________________
See also the special site for VS2480 users in the Netherlands: vs2480nl.tk
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#330938 - 08/18/04 02:26 PM
Re: DVD drive specs
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midisync
midisync
Planeteer
Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 750
Loc: Atlanta,GA
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Originally posted by Marcel:
midisync,
Did you attach a drive formatted with the newest OS to a PC and did you see more than 4 partitions then?
Can you tell me why reformatting is really a must (f.e. is it in the installation documents), does it mean I can't use my 'old' drives with the new OS, since I have a few 'Acard' drives,
Marcel
_________________________
-midisync
Sonar Platinum / I7 CPU Win7 / 24GB RAM / (3) 2 TB Drives
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#330939 - 08/18/04 02:33 PM
Re: DVD drive specs
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Arjan van Gog
Planeteer
Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1243
Loc: The Netherlands
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I don't believe that a 'VS' formatted drive would be readable on a pc.
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#330940 - 08/20/04 11:56 AM
Re: DVD drive specs
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madbrain
Planeteer
Registered: 12/14/03
Posts: 206
Loc: San Jose, California
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midisync,
I'm getting more and more motivated to try this on my 2400, so any information is appreciated.
The CD-RW drive on my 2400 is getting very picky about discs ... Even brand new CD-Rs from the same stack . I have been trying for the last two days and night to complete two 10-CDR backups and I just can't do it !!!! The drive always gets either "write error" or "verify error". So now I'm backing up one project to one disc at a time and hoping I will succeed ... This is driving me nuts and I'm not going to survive with this machine and CD backups for much longer.
Questions :
It's been mentioned that the VS uses a SCSI connector, but the hard drive and CD-R on the VS-2400/2480 are IDE/ATA . How does that work ? Is there an adapter cable needed ? Can you use the same cable that came with the VS for the new drive ?
What I would like to try is disconnect the built-in CD-R drive, and use a long IDE cable to connect to another drive (powered for example by a PC power supply) outside the VS case first, before I do the long 4 hour part of work. I might even try with a non-slim PC IDE drive to see if the Roland code works with a different model of DVD or CD drive first ...
Do you think it's possible to try this in a shorter amount of time than your full procedure ? Obviously I need to find out if a DVD drive works at all . But even if I just get a more reliable/faster CD-R drive to work with the 2400 I'll be happy ...
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