#207051 - 04/16/02 12:02 AM
*** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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John Norland
Planeteer
Registered: 02/14/02
Posts: 220
Loc: Edgerton, WI USA
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All the info here was compiled from Oswald and jim y posts--all thanks to them. I just simplified and organized it. They tell me TONYK also deserves some credit. GOOD LUCK.
BUY THE HARD DRIVE AND CABLE:
Go to: http://shop.store.yahoo.com/cablesonline/44pinlapinri.html
Get the 9" 40 pin to 44 pin 2.5" laptop IDE hard drive cable adaptor w/power.
Go to: http://www.compuvest.com/engine/default1024.asp?47367
Get: TOSHIBA 1.44G MK1403MAN 12.7MM 2.5I/16 (John Norland ordered 3—2 were bad)
Note: If you can't get this particular drive, the drive must be a laptop drive under 2 gigs. Confirm the drive is formatted to FAT16 and has been tested or do that yourself using a PC—formatting a hard drive using Windows 3.1 or 95 does this. You could, instead let the 840 do a physical format after you install it but expect that to take several hours. There is a way to use a desktop hard drive but it's a hassle and requires different cables/power supplies.
UPGRADE SOFTWARE: (John Norland did this with a BAD zip drive and it worked fine)
Initialize a zip disk in the 840
Take the zip disk to an internet-connected computer with a 100mb zip drive
Go to: http://www.rolandus.com/support/updatesd...odID=VS%2D840EX
Download this: VS-840EX System Update 2.05 (PC) (380K) - This compressed file contains a file to update the operating system of the VS-840EX from a Zip Disk. Read the README.TXT file for installation instructions.
Put the zip disk in the PC drive
Open Windows Explorer
Drag the files you just downloaded onto the zip disk
Put the zip disk into your 840--then turn it on
The 840 will ask you, “version up?” answer “yes.” It will ask, “sure?” answer “yes.”
In about 30 seconds you will have an EX except for the 250mb zip drive
REMOVE THE ZIP DRIVE AND INSTALL THE HARD DRIVE:
Take ALL the screws off the bottom cover plate and remove it.
Take out the Zip (unplug power and 44 pin cable).
Plug the power line into the power pigtail on the adaptor cable
Plug the laptop end of adaptor into the laptop drive
Carefully plug the 44 Pin IDE cable into the VS motherboard!
(There is a notch in the female connector on the motherboard that takes the male protrusion on the cable end. You'll see what I mean when you go to plug it in. Just don't bend the little pins by trying to force it in the wrong way!!!!!) (Pin one is on the right hand side if looking at the circuit board side of Toshiba drive.) (The two pins way on the right side by themselves are for LEDs or something...they are not used by the adaptor cable!).
Screw the hard drive into the Zip bay with one of the screws that used to hold the Zip in. (Note: John Norland affixed hard drive with a couple of drops of silicone sealant)
Put the bottom panel back on
Fire it up. Initialize. GO!
[ 04-27-2002: Message edited by: John Norland ]
[ 05-05-2002: Message edited by: John Norland ]
[ 06-12-2003: Message edited by: Hook ]
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#207052 - 04/16/02 12:14 AM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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Oswald
Space Cadet
Registered: 03/13/02
Posts: 27
Loc: Canton, Ohio
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Yes.
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#207053 - 04/16/02 01:03 AM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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John Norland
Planeteer
Registered: 02/14/02
Posts: 220
Loc: Edgerton, WI USA
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Damn that was a fast reply Oswald. I meant to post another reply right behind it explaining what I am doing.
I'm sneaking into my office during a night class I'm teaching and doing this on breaks. I promised a guy at Full Compass Systems in Madison that I would compile all the cool info on this and forward it to him. You can see that most of it is copied from your posts.
Might this bare-bones version help some of the less technologically astute members of the planet also? Bassmusician?
Is any of it misleading? I was hoping I could get you (Oswald) and Jim y to review it before I sent it to my friend. Also how do you guys want me to credit you? How about at the top: "Thanks to two really cool guys at VS Planet named jim y and Oswald, here's one way to fit your Roland VS-840 with a hard drive."
John
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#207054 - 04/16/02 10:43 AM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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Bassmusician
Planeteer/Artist # 184
Planeteer
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 2803
Loc: St Louis area
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John, this is perfectly clear even for the a "Space Cadet" like me, I'm sorry for not thanking you, as you have tried to help me alot too man, and Im really sorry, but thank you, your explanation makes it much clearer for me, I have been so "mentally drained" lately, ya see I had bought a Roland studio pack, and tried it, wow, that is NOT he machine for me. I worked on these for several days and got really burned out. Besides trying to play my guitar, (I'm really a singer/ bass player that just plays a little guitar but this other band wants me to play rhythm guitar and sing for them), and they really want a high quality demo, thats where all this started, trying to record it and the old zip crashing and burning etc. I truely appoligize for not thanking you in my last post, I'm new to this site and guess I'm to the point where I cant really remember who has told me what. By the way I called the local St Louis "Authorized Roland Repair Place", (Apparently no matter which one in the st louis area that you take it to it ends up here), I talked to their tech and he told me it would cost me 400 bucks to get the ex upgrade there, he said as you all did, that the panasonic zip should have fixed it. Thanks for posting the site where to get the right ex upgrade and the "how to do it for dummies like me"...ha ha.. by the way if any of you guys have thought about the Roland Studio pack, that tech I talked to yesterday told me that even he has trouble trying to use the roland studio pack, he said it works much better with a Mac than a PC, even though they claim it will work with either, and I have a PC, so guess I aint totally brain dead yet... ha ha..Thanks again John, I'm going to do what you said to do here. Also thanks to anyone else who may have helped me, that I may have missed.
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#207055 - 04/16/02 11:55 AM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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John Norland
Planeteer
Registered: 02/14/02
Posts: 220
Loc: Edgerton, WI USA
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Bassmusician,
No sweat dude
Remember, all I did was compile the info from jim y and Oswald posts.
I was almost exactly where you are a month ago. My 840 was broken and I thought I was out $1000--no help from Roland or Iomega.
I was in a blues band and I had to quit because I have an 18-month-old and another on the way. To keep the peace with my friends when I quit, I promised my buddy, the singer in the blues band, that I would help him record a solo album. The 840 broke down and lost two of the three songs we were working on--many hours of work by many people gone. So I was pretty pissed off and discouraged when I got to this site.
The people here have been very patient with me asking redundant questions. I think my 840 is better than new now. I'm going to do the SCSI conversion and get an external 250MB zip for backup--I'll let you know how that goes.
I have also received invaluable tips about mics, pre-amps and limiter/compressors. I definately would have purchased the wrong stuff for me without reading Burton's tips. (And at one point I accused him of working for Roland.)
So anyway, stay on the site and make your demos available for download. My tunes are at www.johnnorland.com
Good Luck
John
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#207056 - 04/16/02 02:56 PM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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Bassmusician
Planeteer/Artist # 184
Planeteer
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 2803
Loc: St Louis area
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Thanks Johm, I'm gonna head to your site and check out your tunes, if ya wanna see my site its at http://bottomline69.tripod.com we dont have any songs there yet, oviously since the roland has shot craps for the moment, but ya might wanna check out the site anyway, its still under construction, I'm just building it myself.
I'm gonna order one of those hard drives and that cable from those sites you gave me,and this weekend a friend of mine whos real smart with computers etc is gonna try and help me do that. Let me know how the scsi thing goes because I would also like to have a zip drive available since I have like 30 or 40 100 mb discs with tunes allready on them from my past recordings.
Take care, Jack
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#207057 - 04/16/02 04:04 PM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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Bassmusician
Planeteer/Artist # 184
Planeteer
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 2803
Loc: St Louis area
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Hey man just downloaded one of your songs, "What I need", very awesome man well done!!! I'd of signed your guestbook, but didnt see one.
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#207058 - 04/16/02 05:52 PM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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jim y
Planeteer
Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 2579
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Very good John.
A few points.
Of the files downloaded in the update, only the one called $SYSPRO2.VS1 needs to be placed onto the zip disc. The EX file also contains a .txt file with the heading "VS-840EX System Update" - I mention this because the original 840 update (1.02 pre EX) also uses a file called $SYSPRO2.VS1 ! So don't get them mixed up.
The four extra pins on the 2.5" hard-drive are for IDE Master/Slave/Cable-Select setting using a little jumper plug. As Master is the setting with no jumper fitted and laptops usually only have one hard drive, the jumper plug is not usually supplied. That is ,you don't need it for the 840. But you might if you have to mount the drive on a pc. Ordinarily you don't have to worry about this.
My IBM drive had a pin socket blanked off in the middle of the 44pin connector but my adapter cable did not have the corresponding pin cropped off on its 44pin plug - I had to do it myself which required a bit of checking and rechecking first!
If you inadvertantly plug any cable/adapter in the wrong way round, it does not do any damage which is just as well.
Could we put up something on a webpage somewhere - with pics too? I started a write up giving all possible options but it needs to be in HTML to be really cool. Anyone?
Oh, and as for credits...
I suppose I should let my real name out of the bag. It's Yale, Jim Yale. That wasn't so hard.
If you look at the "history links" post I did a few days back, you can see who was involved at the start. I think it may have been Tom Kemp aka TnTKemp who was first to do the straight-forward "laptop drive in place of zip" fitting as I was using a lash-up with 3.5" drives to begin with.
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#207059 - 04/18/02 12:45 PM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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Bassmusician
Planeteer/Artist # 184
Planeteer
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 2803
Loc: St Louis area
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My Hard drive and Cable are on the way, I'm going to the site John pointed out to download the softare now, so its ready, wish me luck you guys, and thanks
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#207060 - 04/18/02 10:22 PM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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Nobluph
Space Cadet
Registered: 09/17/99
Posts: 17
Loc: Enid, OK, USA
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Thank you to all of the pioneers who cleared the way for the hard drive modification. I have 1 question though.
When I opened my VS-840 I saw that the power supply plug connected to my zip drive has blue wires to pins 1 & 2 and a different color wire to pin 3. On my laptop adapter there are only 2 wires - red on pin 1 and black on pin 2. Then I was afraid I was going to burn something up and never actually connected the laptop drive.
Is one blue wire positive and the other blue wire negative? And what is the third wire all about? Am I worrying over nothing?
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#207061 - 04/19/02 01:52 AM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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John Norland
Planeteer
Registered: 02/14/02
Posts: 220
Loc: Edgerton, WI USA
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Nobluph--I have no idea--but I bet jim or Oswald will know.
Web site with pics--good idea. I'm wondering what my SCSI kit will look like and if we could replicate it easily with parts from cablesonline and places like that--because I'm getting a sinking feeling that they aren't going to be available very long and something tells me that we're going to get new people who want to imporve/fix their 840s for a while. I'm also wondering if there will be a way to reload the operating system software through that external zip drive if necessary. It would be great if we could also include the SCSI update and other important instructions on the site too.
john
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#207062 - 04/19/02 12:20 PM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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jim y
Planeteer
Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 2579
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Nobluph, don't worry about those power wires. The 2 middle pins of the power plug are both 0 volts ( ground ) connections and are connected together on the drive anyway - so you only need 1 wire for 0 volt and 1 for the +5v (the end pin). The missing 4th wire from the 840 is used for a +12volt feed that the zip and laptop drives don't need and the 840 doesn't supply. The standard 3.5" hard drives do need the +12volt feed and it's the lack of this which forces us to use the laptop 2.5" drives.
About the SCSI, not only is the 840 SCSI interface (whose part number constantly escapes my memory) going to be harder to find, but SCSI zip drives are becoming rare too. For Iomega, it makes far more sense to supply the USB interface drives since both pc and mac computers now have USB ports as standard. I think we can forget any hope of Roland producing a USB adapter!
I'm afraid that the SCSI interface might be a bit beyond us to replicate. It's more than a cable adapter and I believe contains a SCSI controller chip. Doh!
[ 04-19-2002: Message edited by: jim y ]
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#207063 - 04/19/02 02:51 PM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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Nobluph
Space Cadet
Registered: 09/17/99
Posts: 17
Loc: Enid, OK, USA
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Thanks Jim. It's time for me to stop worrying and start recording!
Regarding SCSI. My VS-840 came with the SCSI upgade, but I have never used it. So, I don't really know anything about it. However, for those of you who do - this website ( http://www.usb-ware.com/USB-SCSI-adapter-Microtech.htm ) sells a USB to SCSI adapter.
Would it be possible to use such an adapter to connect the VS-840 directly to one's PC for backup purposes? It would be well worth the $80US to me if it would work.
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#207064 - 04/20/02 07:39 AM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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jim y
Planeteer
Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 2579
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The usb adaptor ought to work. A basic SCSI pci card for the pc might be cheaper but they are tricky to install.
What I don't know is if the 840 discs written to the scsi zip can be properly read by a pc. The .wav exports from a GX will work but copies of 840 discs which are intended to be recordable on the 840 won't - you will need the JGX utility to copy these on & off the pc.
Worth a try?
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#207065 - 04/28/02 12:56 PM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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Bassmusician
Planeteer/Artist # 184
Planeteer
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 2803
Loc: St Louis area
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Was you able to get the new Url in here John? I have written it down in case I ever need it again.
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#207066 - 04/30/02 11:44 AM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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John Norland
Planeteer
Registered: 02/14/02
Posts: 220
Loc: Edgerton, WI USA
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I edited the original message on this line so the link above (to the downloadable EX software upgrade) should be correct now.
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#207067 - 05/02/02 12:08 PM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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Bassmusician
Planeteer/Artist # 184
Planeteer
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 2803
Loc: St Louis area
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Looks like it is John, I clicked it and it took me there
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#207068 - 05/13/02 08:39 PM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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Bassmusician
Planeteer/Artist # 184
Planeteer
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 2803
Loc: St Louis area
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Here you go Guy, should put Johns post back on top so you can see it.
Jack
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#207069 - 06/01/02 12:26 AM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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Bassmusician
Planeteer/Artist # 184
Planeteer
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 2803
Loc: St Louis area
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Dynodan, this is the procedure i used, by replying to it, i think it should bring it back to the top for you. Jack
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#207070 - 06/04/02 12:11 AM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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dynodan
Space Cadet
Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 8
Loc: Idaho
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Thanks Jack, I'm tring to find the parts this week. Can I e-mail you if I need help? dan
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#207071 - 06/18/02 12:30 AM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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Oswald
Space Cadet
Registered: 03/13/02
Posts: 27
Loc: Canton, Ohio
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Back to the top. It's always needed.
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#207072 - 07/09/02 12:23 PM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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Bassmusician
Planeteer/Artist # 184
Planeteer
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 2803
Loc: St Louis area
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possibly needed once again
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#207073 - 07/31/02 03:28 PM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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Skarekrough
Planeteer
Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 46
Loc: Boston
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I'll be ordering parts for this procedure this week and will take pictures.
If I can find the time I'll try and do a tutorial using both medias and post it somewhere.
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#207074 - 08/23/02 04:34 PM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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Bassmusician
Planeteer/Artist # 184
Planeteer
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 2803
Loc: St Louis area
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#207075 - 09/25/02 09:21 PM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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Bassmusician
Planeteer/Artist # 184
Planeteer
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 2803
Loc: St Louis area
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back one more time for someone
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#207076 - 10/19/02 06:02 AM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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Leonard
Planeteer
Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 4678
Loc: Mchenry, Il 60050 usa
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"Bump"
_________________________
Appreciate! Everything else is madness.
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#207077 - 11/23/02 05:05 PM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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Bassmusician
Planeteer/Artist # 184
Planeteer
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 2803
Loc: St Louis area
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#207078 - 03/07/03 03:59 PM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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Caught-Up
Space Cadet
Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 12
Loc: Milford NH
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Last week my father in law gives me this laptop with a 2gig drive," just in case you can sell it or something..." yes!!!it's a....TOSHIBA! anyway this brings me to ask a question, will this hard drive up-grade quiet down the ROLAND? I think what's making all the racket is the Zip thrashing back and forth???
so all i need is to order the cables yes?
Jeff 
_________________________
May you find the sweet spot everywhere you set up. Look! It's right there! No, there! Peace and rest for y'all.And time to play... http://www.earthworksaudio.com
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#207079 - 03/07/03 04:11 PM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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Bassmusician
Planeteer/Artist # 184
Planeteer
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 2803
Loc: St Louis area
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Originally posted by Caught-Up: Last week my father in law gives me this laptop with a 2gig drive," just in case you can sell it or something..." yes!!!it's a....TOSHIBA! anyway this brings me to ask a question, will this hard drive up-grade quiet down the ROLAND? I think what's making all the racket is the Zip thrashing back and forth???
so all i need is to order the cables yes?
Jeff
First off welcome to the Roland Planet Jeff, it's my favorite site on the net.
In answer to your question, yes, it will make it alot quieter, at least it made mine alot quieter, and more efficient. I have never gotten the "Drive Busy" messages, or "Disc Full", no more clankity clank of any sort.
I'm not certain about the hard drive, I got my hard drive like John had suggested in this thread, but you will need the cable, it provides the power supply to the hard drive I do believe.
Just follow the instructions at the top of this thread as John instructed, and you should have no problems.
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#207080 - 03/31/03 03:25 AM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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bert
Planeteer
Registered: 03/09/00
Posts: 1349
Loc: Parsippany, NJ
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back to the top
_________________________
https://soundcloud.com/bert-painter/tracksSongs written by my good friend Dave who past on. vocals - Dave guitar - Dave and Bert Bass - Bert Produced and Recorded - Bert Drums - Programmed so far
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#207081 - 05/03/03 03:35 PM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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Leonard
Planeteer
Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 4678
Loc: Mchenry, Il 60050 usa
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Much lower priced converter cable here .
_________________________
Appreciate! Everything else is madness.
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#207082 - 06/01/03 06:07 PM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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Bassmusician
Planeteer/Artist # 184
Planeteer
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 2803
Loc: St Louis area
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#207083 - 06/02/03 04:48 AM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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jim y
Planeteer
Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 2579
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I can't get a link at the moment, but Roland did produce a list of compatable drives for the 880 and above. I would suggest that it's highly likely this list will hold true for the 840EX/GX provided the maximum size of 2.1gig isn't exceeded. We do know that IBM (the TravelStar series) drives larger than 2.1gig can be programmed to any size if attached to a pc and using a free utility you can download from IBM. Recently, IBMs drive range was taken over by Hitachi.
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#207084 - 06/02/03 01:04 PM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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Bassmusician
Planeteer/Artist # 184
Planeteer
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 2803
Loc: St Louis area
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Originally posted by jim y:
I can't get a link at the moment, but Roland did produce a list of compatable drives for the 880 and above. I would suggest that it's highly likely this list will hold true for the 840EX/GX provided the maximum size of 2.1gig isn't exceeded. We do know that IBM (the TravelStar series) drives larger than 2.1gig can be programmed to any size if attached to a pc and using a free utility you can download from IBM. Recently, IBMs drive range was taken over by Hitachi.
So are you saying we could put a really BIG hard drive in the 840 Jim? Like my laptop has a 20 Gig, and I notice alot of the new laptops can be bought with 60 to 80 gig hard drives? If that were the case, I'd probally never have to erase a song again off the 840...ha ha
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#207085 - 06/06/03 11:48 AM
Re: *** IS THIS AN ACCURATE HARD DRIVE INSTALL PROCEDURE? ***
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jim y
Planeteer
Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 2579
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No, the IBM utility can downsize the drive if it's too big to work on equipment. The allows modern drives to be used as replacements on old equipment. It will not allow the old equipment to benefit from the extra storage space on the drive.
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