randygo
(Planeteer)
11/04/06 10:57 AM
RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

*** Edit Dec 3, 2006 ***

NOTE:

This rdac2wav.exe is the successor to the mtp2wav.exe program originally introduced in this thread. It supports MTP, MT1, MT2, M16 and M24:

http://www.integrand.com/vs/rdac2wav.zip

Please use this instead of the older mtp2wav.exe.

Cheers,

Randy

** End Edit ***


Sorry it took so long, its been a while since I've done C programming and I was a little rusty!

Contained here is a MTP to WAV command-line converter. It also includes the source code:

http://www.integrand.com/zoom/mtp2wav.zip

Example usage:

mtp2wav c:\songs\song0003\take01df.vr6 guitar.wav

It currently only supports a 44.1K sample rate. [*** EDIT Nov 4, 2006: The latest version (0.91) also supports 48K and 16-bit output ***]

Let me know if there are any issues.

Cheers,

Randy


buster 'n babs
(Planeteer)
11/04/06 01:21 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

this sounds terrific.

can we non-techie people use this yet? if so, can u give us more specific detailed instructions for installation and use? thx and congrats.


nyaben
(Planeteer)
11/04/06 04:50 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Wow...I can't wait to try it! How do I get the MTP song file to my computer to try it? Do I need to back it up via my 1680 first and then use that CD in my computer?

Is it taking an MTP song file and creating individual WAV files for each track?

Thanks so much for your efforts.


nyaben
(Planeteer)
11/04/06 04:52 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Sorry...not sure why but this was originally a double post.

randygo
(Planeteer)
11/04/06 06:59 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>can we non-techie people use this yet?

Yes! In the zip file is a Windows executable program.


>How do I get the MTP song file to my computer to try it?

Copy the song to some kind of external media, I used a SCSI Compact Flash writer, but if you can burn CD backups from your VS, then that should work too. The crucial part is that you need to be able to access the song folders and VR6 data files contained somehow from your PC.


>Is it taking an MTP song file and creating individual WAV files for each track?

This utility converts any MTP audio file (44.1k) from a track into a WAV. So, it works at the "phrase" level rather than the "track" level. To reconstruct the tracks requires that the undocumented event list file be figured out, which Danielo has said he is working on.

However, for convenience, one could write a script to use this converter such that it would convert an entire song's worth of audio into WAVs. This could be useful, but would still require that you reassemble the "phrases" in time using your favorite PC DAW.

>if so, can u give us more specific detailed instructions for installation and use?

1) Download the ZIP file from the URL I posted.

2) Unzip it and extract the "mtp2wav.exe" file.

3) Place "mtp2wav.exe" somewhere in your executable path.

4) Ensure you have access to MTP encoded files from your PC. These live in a song folder like "song0003" and probably have a file extension of "vr6". Look on your backup media using file explorer and see if you can find this.

5) Open a DOS command shell and type something like:

 Code:
    C:> mtp2wav g:\song0003.vr6\take01df.vr6 guitar.wav
Cheers,

Randy


Ricardo Blackmore
(Planeteer)
11/04/06 07:13 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

\:D \:D \:D \:D it's a dream coming true or another f***f*** frustation?!

randygo
(Planeteer)
11/04/06 07:42 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>another f***f*** frustation?!

Well, try it out and let me know if you encounter any problems, I would hate to be the cause of any frustration. This converter solves the hard problem of conversion and others can build on it if they wish - I have supplied the source code after all.

I will be adding sample rate support in a future version, as my free time and motivation allows.

Cheers,

Randy


hunter
(Space Cadet)
11/04/06 09:20 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Been away from this site for a while. Looks like I came back at a good time. Has anyone had any success using this conversion tool?

BTW, I put my backup CDs in my computers CD drive but cannot see any files (using explorer). Is there a trick to this? Does the conversion utility provide access to the Roland backup disc?

thanks for the effort in developing the tool. I am at the point of needing to import various shelved projects into PC for some new edits and this utility could be the perfect solution...if I can see the files to import.

Not sure how sorting out things at the Phrase level is going to work but it is a start.

hunter


betelgeuse
(Planeteer)
11/04/06 10:01 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

I also created a CD backup of a song and the pc cdrw could not read it. I also have a scsi card in my pc, and I connected my plextor scsi cdrw to that port, and again could not read anything on the cd.

I was able to do a copy song playable to a "song vault" that I built - this would also work going to an external scsi drive - and I was able to hook it up to my pc scsi port and my pc recognized all of the folders and files.

Randy, many thanks to you and Danielo for pulling this off - I'll take whatever you provide - no frustrations at all ... It's also nice of you to provide the source code ... hopefully that pays off in the long run of others adding ideas to make this better, although you two seem to be doing pretty good so far - pretty quickly, also.

Again, thanks ...


booradley
(Planeteer)
11/04/06 11:57 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

same thing. 1680 CDR Backup cd in computer and nothings shows on the disc.

Thanks for the effort randgo and danielo.


betelgeuse
(Planeteer)
11/05/06 12:04 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Alright, I'm having some problems - I've tried this on three different pcs. On the first one, I get a "mtp2wav.exe encountered a serious error" type of message. At this point, I'm not too concerned about this error, because I can get it to run on the other two pcs.

However, I can't get the wav files that are created to run on any of the pcs at all. There seem to be codec related issues. On one pc, I reloaded Windows Media - I still get a C00D11B1 error, and indications that iit is triggered by a C00D109B error - codecs file could not be found.

On another pc, I get a C00D10D1 error, indicating that I need the Microsoft PCM format(1) codec. There's a link to get it which never comes up. I did a little digging and this codec should be a default part of Window Media player.

Any ideas on what the problems might be? Any other programs that I could use just to try to play the wav files - I'm about tired of Windows Media player?


randygo
(Planeteer)
11/05/06 01:24 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

betelgeuse,

The converted WAV will be a 24-bit, mono, 44.1Khz file, possibly not all players will recognize it.

I have tested in Reaper, Sound Forge, Vegas, Acid, the latest vesion of iTunes 7, and Windows Media Player 10. I am running Windows XP sp2.

I can't say what will happen if your audio device is only 16-bit, I assume it will play with the bits truncated, but I have no way to test this at the moment.

That said, I will probably add some option in my next version to truncate (or dither if I can) to 16-bit WAVs if this is a problem.

Care to give Reaper a try? Its free for trial: http://reaper.fm

Cheers,

Randy


betelgeuse
(Planeteer)
11/05/06 01:37 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Thanks for the reply - when you say 16 bit device are you refering to the application or sound card?

I'm also running xp sp2 on two of my pcs xp sp1 on the other - one pc is pretty recent - amd 3400 or so, msi k8n neo4 mb, sound card is built in, I'll have to look up the specs ...

I downloaded the latest WMP on one of the pcs.

I'll try reaper - at this point, I'm just trying to listen to the wav file.


Randyman...
(Planeteer)
11/05/06 03:21 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Correct me if I am wrong, but this utility will not read data off a VS "Backup Disk". You will have to transfer the actual "Song" project to the PC by way of a SCSI HD or VirDIS/ACARD type system. It will read/convert the files direclty from the project's RDAC audio files...

Maybe I missed something, but the Roland Data B/U CD's are only recoverable directly to the VS (I believe even the VirDIS does not offer this capability - you still have to recover to/from the VS).

You will need to open the 24-bit files in a 24-bit capable application (WMP and Real Player etc will not work with 24 bit files)

???

PS - how are the chances looking for getting this for the 2480's MTP projects?



randygo
(Planeteer)
11/05/06 03:40 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>how are the chances looking for getting this for the 2480's MTP projects?

It should work for MTP RDAC files from the VS-2480, which appear to be the same as the VS-1680 as far as Danielo and I know.

FYI, I just converted a 7MB MTP file from my VS-1680 (about 3 minutes of audio) to a WAV and it took about *** five seconds ***!

Surely someone else must have had success using this by now?

Cheers,

Randy


randygo
(Planeteer)
11/05/06 03:53 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>WMP and Real Player etc will not work with 24 bit files

Well, my Windows Media Player 10 works! Perhaps when I installed Vegas, Acid, or Reaper it installed the necessary codec for 24-bit WAVs.

I'm surprised this codec wouldn't come stock with Windows or Windows Media Player. I'm sure it can be found somehow.

From a quick Google I see people mention that Winamp plays 24-bit files perfectly.

Cheers,

Randy


betelgeuse
(Planeteer)
11/05/06 04:28 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Randy:

I did have luck playing the wav files with Reaper, so I have something to start with - it verifies that the conversion process appears to have worked. I'll convert quite a few more the next few days.

In addition to the WMP issue, while I could burn the wav files to CDs as data files, I couldn't burn them to CDs as an audio files using Windows functionality for pretty much the same reason - codecs. If I can get that functionality - burning music CDS - in an application like reaper, which I assume that I can, then this will be a non-issue.

I found a place that described my problem:

http://www.theeldergeek.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17194

with a possible solution:

http://www.free-codecs.com/download/K_Lite_Codec_Pack.htm

but it didn't work.

I have had success with the conversion - I've converted a couple of 5 mb mtp files, and a 9 mb file using mtp2wav - the conversion process was quick for me also - seconds - I ended up with about 17 mb wav files from the 5 mb mtp files.


Randyman...
(Planeteer)
11/05/06 04:30 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Wow. Must be a seperate plug-in for WMP, ans I know for a fact that my WMP-10 does not play 24-bit files...

I have a ton of ACARD rempveable HD's from the 2480 at my house, and I might try this tonight if I can find a few free seconds! Sounds way cool, and it appears that your partner is tackling the Playlist issues to create a unified track from multiple takes/punch-ins...

Man - this is too cool. We gratiously thank you for your time and effort :clap:



randygo
(Planeteer)
11/05/06 05:56 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

betelgeuse,

You'll be pleased to know I just updated my converter to support specifying sample rate and bit depth.

Get the latest version (0.91) at:

http://www.integrand.com/zoom/mtp2wav.zip

I wouldn't recommend 16-bit WAV output in most cases, but it may be useful for testing. I truncate with no dither to convert from 24 to 16 bit.

If you have a 48000KHz MTP, you can now generate a WAV at the correct rate. For example to generate a 16-bit 48000KHz WAV:

 Code:
    C:> mtp2wav -r 48000 -d 16 g:\song0003.vr6\take01df.vr6 guitar.wav
Cheers,

Randy


randygo
(Planeteer)
11/05/06 06:29 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>I did have luck playing the wav files with Reaper

I'm looking to write a plugin for Reaper so that the RDAC files can be directly auditioned and used in Reaper projects without requiring conversion to WAV!

Cheers,

Randy


Randyman...
(Planeteer)
11/05/06 09:01 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

After a quick 30 second test with a 2480's VR1 files recorded in MTP - it appears to work!!!

I'm off to take a shower and get a buzz going, then I will check a few more 2480 MTP files in depth.

Will the Playlist stuff Danielo is working on end up consolidating multiple takes into a single WAVE, or will this still be a manual re-alignment type of operation?

Do you see any reason Roland could not have done this MTP-to-Wave converter if they really wanted to please their customers (including re-constituting a single file like the 2480 does when you do a "Wave Export")? Just seems odd that you have "cracked" RDAC per our requests (THANKS!!), but Roland never even thought twice about giving us such a utility - and they developed the freaking RDAC Codec! I guess they really are a selfish as we think they are (keeping us in the box as much as possible) ;\)



martin s
(Planeteer)
11/05/06 09:09 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Hi,many thanks, what an amazing work!

i have 1 question that i was unable to understand & to fix:

it is this one;

3) Place "mtp2wav.exe" somewhere in your executable path.

where & what execute path?

is it in the regedit?
or something like.

thanks in advance

martin


Randyman...
(Planeteer)
11/05/06 09:19 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

IF you use XP's "Run" utility on the start menu, and type "command", it usually defaults to your "C:\Documents and Settings\YOUR USER NAME" path. Simply copy the MTP2WAV exe to your "C:\Documents and Settings\YOUR USER NAME" path, and you don't need to specify where the EXE is from the Command window... Simply typing mtp2wav (plus the Target Path\Filename and the desired WAVE filename) will get it to run...

The resultant WAVE files will also preside in the "C:\Documents and Settings\YOUR USER NAME" path...

I doubt that made any sense as my buzz is kicking in now ;\)



martin s
(Planeteer)
11/05/06 09:29 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Randyman, thanks you for the quick reply!

i will give it another try,with your suggestions.

martin


randygo
(Planeteer)
11/05/06 10:56 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>it appears to work!!!

Woohoo! Confirmation. Thanks.


>Will the Playlist stuff Danielo is working on end up consolidating multiple
>takes into a single WAVE, or will this still be a manual re-alignment type
>of operation?

That's the general idea. One WAV per track. However, I would be much more interested in generating an EDL (edit decision list) which can basically achieve the same ends. In any case, this converter gets you about 99% of the way there.


>Do you see any reason Roland could not have done this MTP-to-Wave converter if they really wanted to please their customers?

The only reason I can think of is to screw the customers. There is absolutely no technical reason why this could not have been done in 1996. Roland seems to expect artists to spend 100+ hours transfering their work to other media versus seconds in the digital realm.

Let me tell you, I was shocked when I upgraded my VS-840EX last year to the VS-840GX level with great hopes that the built-in WAV conversion facility would solve my data transfer problem. What a joke! The WAV conversion actually takes longer than transferring the audio in realtime using an S/PDIF connection! WTF@!%#$%^&**(!

Cheers,

Randy


randygo
(Planeteer)
11/05/06 11:35 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Oops, I had a small typo in my wav.c file, so if you downloaded mtp2wav.zip prior to now, please download it again.

No biggie, but you may find your WAV files are padded with zeroes much more than expected :-)

Argh...like the other Randy here, my buzz has long ago kicked in and it is time for bed.

Cheers,

Randy


Boray
(Planeteer)
11/05/06 02:08 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

How great!!! I can't try it because I have no way of getting to the data. But I'm happy for your progress!!! Thanks for all your work!!!

/Anders


Rich H
(Planeteer)
11/06/06 12:26 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Randy - thanks for doing this & making it available to us!

I haven't tried it yet - I'd have to think how to transfer the file over.

Can anybody spell out what this would enable once the files are successfully transferred over to a PC in WAV format? Presumbably we are not looking at just a stereo WAV waveform, but a full multitrack version?

What will this then enable? Obviously it would depend what programs are on the PC, but would this be mixing or mastering or editing?

Rich H


randygo
(Planeteer)
11/06/06 07:05 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>Can anybody spell out what this would enable
>once the files are successfully transferred
>over to a PC in WAV format?

Every mono phrase you've recorded, from each record/stop operation, will be represented by a file with a VR6 extension. Each of these can be converted to an individual WAV using the converter.

So you can access all of your audio now on the PC, but until the proprietary event list is entirely decoded and integrated with the MTP converter, you will need to reassemble these WAV phrases manually in your favorite DAW if you wish to reconstruct the original multitrack project.

Cheers,

Randy


hunter
(Space Cadet)
11/06/06 09:40 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

OK, still feeling a little dense. I have downloaded the converter (thanks very much), but still cannot access the MTP files. I have a 1680 with internal HD and a SCSI CD burner (the Roland thing). No SCSI connection on my PC, just USB. I confirmed that mapping to the SCSI drive with the Roland is not an option for "Song At Once" feature.

I read the comment on building a "vault" but the "how to do that" is not in my grasp. I'd appreciate any tips on a relatively low cost method of bring the files into a format where I can read them with my PC and utilize the converter.

thanks,

hunter


randygo
(Planeteer)
11/07/06 12:07 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

There must be some way to burn a data CD containing a readable IS09660 filesystem. I don't have a CD-burner - I do "Copy Song" to an SCSI compact flash writer and then plug the compact flash into my PC. A Zip or external hard drive will work the same way.

Cheers,

Randy


Randyman...
(Planeteer)
11/07/06 12:17 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

I believe the VS Back-up disks use a form of data compression of sorts - so the Project and the related VR files are not directly visible on the Back-up CD-R while "Exploring" the CD on a PC. The Back-up CD must be "Recovered" back to the VS for the Data to become useable again...

Exactly why Copying to an exterrnal HD is a better concept of backing up IMO (the "Backup" is fully useable in this case)

IIRC, Even the heavily R&D'd VirDIS can not "read" (Decode) Back-up CD-R's - it still relies 100% on the VS's "Recover" capability to make these archive CD-R's useable again...



betelgeuse
(Planeteer)
11/07/06 04:20 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

As Randy said, any external scsi hard drive. or zip drive should work - I assume that a scsi jaz drice would also work.

A scsi card that plugs into one of your pc's motherboard slots can be had on ebay relatively cheaply - I got an Iomega ABP 960u for about $10 to $15 plus shipping about a year and a half ago.

Randy:

I had an issue come up this weekend. I converted all 8 takes of a song to wav files and pulled them up in reaper. Everything was synced up, but the song was too fast and my voices sounded like chipmunks.

I went back and looked at the song and it was set to 32k instead of 44.1k. I've recently showed my sons how to record on the vs so somehow they've messed with the default settings.

Anyway, I reran the conversion at 32k, everything sounds fine now, but the tracks are out of sync. Two or three tracks play all the way through, then the next two or three play all the way through, and then the last ones play.

Ultimately, I plan on doing everything at 44.1k, but I'm curious if I'm doing something wrong.

I ended up converting these 8 takes several times, in which I ended up executing mtp2wav several times. I started writing a vbscript batch file to automate it somewhat ....

It's crude, but it makes it easier to run a bunch of takes for a song at one time ...

 Code:
'-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
' MTP2WAVBatch.vbs
' Vbscript file to execute the MTP2WAV.EXE file to convert Roland Take VR6 files to WAV files 
' This script will convert all of the take???? vr6 files in a song folder 
' A log file will be put into the song folder with information on the wav files created
' Insert this code into a file with a filetype of vbs
'-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dim oFSO
Dim oCurrentFolder
Dim oStream
Dim oLogFile
Dim sSongPath
DIM sProgramPath

'-------------------------------------------------------------------
' Change the Program Path consistent to where MTP2WAV.EXE is located
'-------------------------------------------------------------------
sProgramPath = "c:\NewStuff\Personal\vs\"

'-----------------------------------------------------
' Change the song path consistent with the song folder
'Change the rate and bit settings as appropriate 
'-----------------------------------------------------
sSongPath = "c:\NewStuff\Personal\vs\SONG0002VR6\"
sRate = "44100"
sBit = "24"

Set oFSO = CreateObject("scripting.filesystemobject")
Set oStream = oFSO.createtextfile(sSongPath + "mtp2wavbatch.log", True)
SearchFolder (oFSO.getfolder(sSongPath)), oStream, sSongPath, sProgramPath, sRate, sBit
MsgBox "Conversion Completed." + vbCr + "Check: " + vbCr + sSongPath + vbCr + "for results."

'-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
' Subroutine : Search the folder for take files and convert
'-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub SearchFolder(oCurrentFolder, oLogFile, sSongPath, sProgramPath, sRate, sBit)
    
    Dim sTemp
    Dim sInName
    Dim sInType
    Dim sOutName
    Dim sOutput
    Dim oInFile
    Dim oStream
    Dim oShell
    
    sInName = "TAKE"   
    sInType = ".VR6"
    
    For Each oInFile In oCurrentFolder.Files
        sTemp = Right(oInFile.Name, 4)
        If UCase(sTemp) = UCase(sInType) Then
           sTemp = Left(oInFile.Name, 4)
           If UCase(sTemp) = UCase(sInName) Then
              sOutName = left(CStr(oInFile.Name), 8) + "." + "WAV"
              sOutput = sSongPath + left(CStr(oInFile.Name), 8) + "." + "WAV" + _
" created by MTP2WAV.EXE on " + CStr(Now())
              Set oShell = WScript.CreateObject( "WScript.Shell" )
              oShell.Run sProgramPath + "mtp2wav" + " -r " + sRate + " -d " + sBit + " " + _
sSongPath + CStr(oInFile.Name) + " " + sSongPath + sOutName, 1, TRUE
              set oShell = nothing 
              oLogFile.writeline sOutput
           End If
        End If
    Next
       
End Sub
I'm moving all the contents of a song directory to a folder on my pc with the same name, except, I'm removing the dot in the name:

song0002.vr6 ---> song0002vr6

Seems vbscript had a problem with a dot in the folder name, although I could be confused, I had a lot of problems at first with this.

This runs a little slower than running mtp2wav from the command line - probably the windows shell stuff, but it's a lot quicker than executing mtp2wav a bunch of times with all of the typing of the file names involved ...


randygo
(Planeteer)
11/07/06 07:16 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

betelgeuse,

Nice. I was hoping folk would figure out creative ways to leverage the converter to their own needs. I thought about some kind of "batch" mode, but decided against it, as most of this can be accomplished through scripting. I decided for the minimalistic approach.

I had forgotten that I had left the sample rate totally configurable, I had expected only 44100 or 48000, so I'm glad you were able to set it to 32000. However, a 24-bit 32khz file seems a little perverse!

Unfortunately, there is no way to know by looking at the RDAC data file alone what the sample rate is! This information is contained in some other file in the song folder. I'm sure we will figure it out eventually, but for now I have set the default to 44100, as I expect this is probably the most common setting people use.

As to your sequencing issue - I suspect this is related to the fact that each converted file is a phrase from the original track, which may have been placed at some position relative to the start of the track in the original project. As mentioned before, until the event list is decoded, we don't really know where these phrases appear in time.

So, when the converter, or some other tool, is smart enough to understand the event list we could conceivably have a mode that will generate a track into a WAV, rather that just a phrase, for example, to translate track 1, virtual track 2, we could specify something like:

 Code:
    mtp2wav -t 1,2 g:\song0002 track1.wav
(Note this is not a current feature of the converter!).

My current priority though is to use MTP data files directly in Reaper without converting them to WAV first. Then, I would like to generate an EDL once the the event list is known so that I can import a song directly into Reaper with no WAVs needing to be created!

Cheers,

Randy


Danielo
(Planeteer)
11/07/06 09:44 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

arghhh... just lost another long message to the ghosts of this forum script... so just repeating the main info in short:

.) help is on its way, my apps developing nicely but i need 2 or 3 more weeks
.) it will be tested on and developend for the 2480, might not work with the 1680..
.) hope to get a 1680 to do the required tweeks to make it run
.) seen the Brian Jonestown massacre last night, brilliant gig ;-)
.) VB source will be provided when released.
.) songlist and song file contains one byte telling about the samplerate, and another containing the project mode (MTP/MT2...) i think i got all required infos extracted.
.) if the conversion performed with 44.1k is well aligned, but not with 32k, i think its not a take file issue...


cheers!


Nathan's Dad
(Planeteer)
11/07/06 03:19 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

I was successful in converting a couple of old VS880 song take files to wav last night that I had previously copied to my SyJet Scsi cartridge drive. I have a scsi card in my PC. After I got the command right, it worked fine.
I have Adobe Audition 1.5 and was able to open the wav files in Audition but when played I got no audio. MusicMatch (free download) played the wav files fine and also ITunes.
Now I want to try the converter with one of my 1880 songs, which I currently don't have backed up to my SyJet drive.


buster 'n babs
(Planeteer)
11/07/06 03:48 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

 Quote:
Originally posted by Danielo:
it will be tested on and developend for the 2480, might not work with the 1680..
now that's a bummer...since this thread in the 1680 forum i just assumed it was being developed on a 16 or 18** machine.
\:\( \:\( :banghead:


Danielo
(Planeteer)
11/07/06 03:56 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

well, the thing started off with randy found the key to rdac and posted it here in the 1680 forum. i picked it up and did my stuff on the 2480 since this is what i use. anyhow the end product should deal with both of them, or, better to say, both of their family members. i just cant test it on any other piece than the 2480...

cheers


randygo
(Planeteer)
11/07/06 07:16 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>now that's a bummer...since this thread in the
>1680 forum i just assumed it was being developed
>on a 16 or 18** machine.

I wouldn't worry too much about Danielo's stuff not working on the VS-1680. If he is publishing the source code, it should be fairly easy to repurpose to the VS-1680/1880 by other programmers here.

I could help out a bit, but I don't have VB, nor do I care too much to get into VB.

Also, once Danielo exposes more of the event list info, I'm thinking I might roll some additional capabilities into my command line utility (some of which I have alluded to in previous posts), which will definitely be developed and tested with the VS-1680.

Cheers,

Randy


buster 'n babs
(Planeteer)
11/07/06 07:18 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

cool!

Danielo
(Planeteer)
11/07/06 08:13 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

randy, i think everything required from the eventlist is posted, dind't you see the EVENTLST.rtf?
Should tell everything required for exporting complete Tracks.

the two bytes telling the samplerate and mode are offset 12 and 13 in the songlist file.

tell me if you miss something.

cheers.


randygo
(Planeteer)
11/07/06 08:39 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Danielo,

Yes, thanks, I did see that post about the event list and it is much appreciated.

I have not spent a lot of time looking at the event list myself. I got the impression that you thought there was still more to be figured out.

Perhaps I will take a deeper look at parsing the event list now and incorporating some of that info into my converter.

Cheers,

Randy


Nathan's Dad
(Planeteer)
11/08/06 03:42 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

 Quote:
Originally posted by Danielo:

it will be tested on and developend for the 2480, might not work with the 1680..
It will work with 1680 and 1880! It will work with 1680 and 1880! :thumb:


Boray
(Planeteer)
11/09/06 10:43 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

You who now have explored the RDAC compression. You should be able to tell which mode that theoretically should sound better: MTP or MT1?

JimmyT
(Planeteer)
11/09/06 03:27 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

I have a question. I have a 2480 with song vault tyoe external SCSI drive. But my only PC is a laptop. Shouldn't I be able to use a SCSI/USB adapter to read the files directly of the song vault? I found this online after a quick google:

http://www.cwol.com/usb/usb-scsi-adapter-adaptec.htm


randygo
(Planeteer)
11/09/06 06:40 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>You who now have explored the RDAC compression.
>You should be able to tell which mode that
>theoretically should sound better: MTP or MT1?

Both MTP and MT1 compress 16 samples into a block of 16 bytes. So MTP is 3:1 compression and MT1 is 2:1 compression.

MTP encodes a 24-bit value versus a 16-bit value for MT1, so it will have a greater dynamic range. However, it will have potentially more quantization noise, especially at the higher sample values.

Another factor is that the encoding process for MTP may do a better job of choosing patterns such that noise is shifted or masked, this is hard to determine just from looking at how the patterns are decoded.

Someone could null encoded/decoded audio with the original audio to obtain the noise introduced. This way the noise from MTP and MT1 could be compared and analysed. I don't care to do this. Maybe someone with more curiosity and signal processing experience can help you out.

Obviously, MTP must have some sonic quality benefits over MT1 overall, or else I'm sure we would have heard complaints long ago. To my ears it sounds better, but I have not done any blind listening tests.

I think short of 24-bit uncompressed, MTP is your best bet.

Cheers,

Randy


Clearview
(Planeteer)
11/10/06 02:51 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

 Quote:
Originally posted by randygo:


>Do you see any reason Roland could not have done this MTP-to-Wave converter if they really wanted to please their customers?

The only reason I can think of is to screw the customers. There is absolutely no technical reason why this could not have been done in 1996. Roland seems to expect artists to spend 100+ hours transfering their work to other media versus seconds in the digital realm.

Randy
Well firstly, there actually already were programs back then to convert. Apparently there was lack of interest in them, which isn't hard to believe.

Secondly, why would Roland have any interest whatsoever in creating such a program? VS's were designed after the portastudio, an all-in-one box. They don't expect people to transfer or mix on other devices. That kinda defeats the whole purpose of owning a VS in the first place. If you calculate all the hours spent by people wondering and scheming how to get around Roland's so called "faults", rather than just use these devices for what they were intended for, it just seems quite ridiculous. Just in the time it took to read this post, I could have transferred several songs over to another device in real-time with no issues, there's your conversion process(not that I would see a need to).

Lastly, screwing their customers? How about them taking a $80 QPS cd burner and putting it in a box with their name on it and selling it for $500? No one seems to have an issue with that blatant ripoff...


betelgeuse
(Planeteer)
11/10/06 02:56 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

 Quote:
Shouldn't I be able to use a SCSI/USB adapter to read the files directly of the song vault?
From their site:

 Quote:
Connects to virtually all SCSI peripherals including scanners, CD-ROMs, CD-R/Ws, DVD-drives, removable magnetic media such as Zip, Jaz, and Orb drives, hard disks drives, magneto-optical (MO) devices, and tape drives
Based on that comment, in general, it would seem that what you propose should work. B4 I spent $70, I'd probably give them a shout and tell them what I got - scsi peripheral with scsi to ide adapter and ide hard drive - and see what they say. I guess that "virtually" means that some things won't work.

Part of the package mentioned are Windows drivers; I don't know if the drivers are for the scsi buss in general or for the various scsi devices that might be connected.

If it does work, make sure you disconnect from the vs b4 connecting to the pc, just to be safe ...


Boray
(Planeteer)
11/10/06 10:56 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Thanks for the explanation Randy!

Nathan's Dad
(Planeteer)
11/10/06 03:11 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

For me it is the clunkieness (?) of the method you have to use to transfer your song files that is the biggest problem. You have to backup/copy your songs to an external scsi drive and then disconnect that drive and connect it to the SCSI card in your pc....blah, blah, blah!
Doesn't the Viridis solution solve that problem? I believe with their interface you can connect your VS to your pc and keep it that way. It is $250, though, so that is a big drawback for me.
It does appear that Roland's idea was to keep you boxed into their box....it's too cotton-pickin' proprietary, although I love my VS1880 for what I desire to do with my music.
I think it is awesome what these guys in this thread are doing with this program. I am amazed!
Thanks for your efforts with this! :thumb: :clap:


randygo
(Planeteer)
11/10/06 06:51 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>For me it is the clunkieness (?) of the method
>you have to use to transfer your song files that
>is the biggest problem. You have to backup/copy
>your songs to an external scsi drive and then
>disconnect that drive and connect it to the SCSI
>card in your pc....blah, blah, blah!

This is why you want some kind of SCSI device that uses removable media. Zip and Jaz drives work, though these have mostly become obsolete. I use an older model Microtech SCSI Compact Flash Reader/Writer, which can be found on eBay and surplus stores. I think I got an internal mount version on eBay for something like $20. Then I got an old Mac external SCSI enclosure from the local computer surplus store for $10. The cable might have been another $10. So, for about $40 I have a very useful backup device. I still need to power-down the VS when I insert/remove the compact flash card, but this is much better than rebooting the PC to swap a SCSI device.

Cheers,

Randy


randygo
(Planeteer)
11/10/06 08:02 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>Well firstly, there actually already were programs back then to convert.

Clearview,

Really? Please provide more details. I found absolutely nothing to convert MTP to WAV on the PC.

Cheers,

Randy


bear
(Planeteer)
11/13/06 04:28 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Ok - first my hat is off to Randygo and Danielo, you did it.. RDAC in MTP is cracked!!!!!

I spent many hours today studying your source Randygo and comparing it to the Roland patent.. it really matches.

How the hell you figured out some things like the storage order in the 16 byte chunks, the fact that that the actual storage and the patent are 4 bits different in length, the shift value is 4 bits more than the exponent value in the patent, and that pattern 11101111 has odd sample values doubled beats the hell out of me.... but as far as I can see it all hangs together. Damn dudes, that is some tricky work.......

But I don't have a SCSI storage device. I tried just taking out the hard drive from the 1680 and mounting it in my PC, but this does not seem to work. I see SONGxxx.VR6 but they are directories not files, with some inaccessable files underneath.... Anybody know anything about how the IDE storage works??????

Anyway what I (and many others I think) would really like is a way to take a backup CD and directly strip the data out of it.

So I built some backup CDs and played.........

The first thing is that the format of the backup CD is not directly readable by windows. However this is not a total show stopper. It is totally possible to copy the CD as an ISO image. The program I used to do this is Alcohol 120%, but I think some versions of NERO or roxio can do this also.

Then I looked at this image in a hex editor and was able to find the RDAC encoded data fairly easily. Each "take" is delimited by ASCII strings with the word TAKE000xVR6 and at the end the name of the song.

I was able to manually cut and paste the data of each take and then use the MTP2WAV convertor utility to convert. It worked great, I tried several files including special sine waves and then a complete song.

It really should be fairly trivial to write a C program to strip this data out. I was able to do it manually easily.

There are probably details of how the starting time is specified for each take etc. that I have not figured out yet, but from what I have seen that I can do manually, it can be figured out....

Also the event list is fairly easy to find in the .iso image, although I have not even started to try and figure out what it means.

At this point, I do not have a C compiler on my machine to actually try and write something (I do very specialized DSP programming on embedded DSP's, not general windows stuff) but I have a copy of visual C++ somewhere..... I may look into it some more.... but it will be awhile, I am pretty socked in with work.

But if some of you programmers out there want to tackle it, it should be possible. Ideally you could hack into the ASPI layer and directly read the backup CD, but that is pretty tough. Just parsing a .iso image would probably be a good start....


Come on guys, we can do this!!!!!


Danielo
(Planeteer)
11/13/06 10:28 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Hi everyone,

I posted a link to a track based utility in the 2480 forum yesterday. Its a gamma release for testing, so there are issues left.

Randy: i did some minor modifications to the decode.c file, please check it out, this now produces almost identical output compared to Track export. The eventlist info i posted earlier seems to be correct.

Bear: My next steps will be:
1.) fix the bugs in the gamma
2.) add 1680 support
3.) maybe add MT2 support
4.) add backup CD-R support

as i'm busy with other things as well it will take a while till i get to no. 4.
but i'd go down the direct CD-R access path (got some pretty good code for that)
Any analysis and research performed on the backup format would help me.

cheers


randygo
(Planeteer)
11/13/06 06:41 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>Randy: i did some minor modifications to the
>decode.c file, please check it out, this now
>produces almost identical output compared to Track
>export. The eventlist info i posted earlier seems
>to be correct.

Thanks Danielo, I thought I had it perfect, but if you've found a few glitches I'll incorporate the changes.

By the way, I've made good progress on the Reaper MTP plugin. I am now able to audition VR6 MTP media files directly from the Reaper Media explorer, how cool is that! No WAV conversion required! I almost have the drag/drop working onto the Reaper timeline, I think I'll have that working tonight.

Cheers,

Randy


Boray
(Planeteer)
11/13/06 07:00 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Great to hear that those CD backups can be cracked too!!!

randygo
(Planeteer)
11/14/06 10:49 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>Randy: i did some minor modifications to the
>decode.c file, please check it out, this now
>produces almost identical output compared to
>Track export.

FYI, I have updated the mtp2wav.exe program to version .93 which incorporates Danielo's suggested modification:

http://www.integrand.com/zoom/mtp2wav.zip

Cheers,

Randy


bear
(Planeteer)
11/15/06 06:18 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Well, I screwed around a bit tonight with trying to see how a backup CD could be read.....

I now have a little C routine that will take a .iso image of a 1680 backup CD and strip out all the TAKES as individual files.

I went into town today and bought a SCSI ZIP drive ($14 at a computer junk shop and zips at $1 each!!!!). With this I am able to see the .VR6 take files on my PC.

I am in the process of comparing what I rip out of a backup CD to what the 1680 stores as a .VR6 and it is looking like it all works.....

I just don't know enough about windows programming to actually write something that reads the backup discs directly, but making a .iso is not real hard. I have done it now with Alcohol120% and Nero. It just takes a minute or so.....

Then you strip out the TAKES and use Randygo's utility to convert to .wav.

And we have to see what Danielo comes up with as far as interprting an EVENTLIST file....somehow all the TAKES have to be put on a timeline to keep them lined up....


blue print
(Planeteer)
11/16/06 01:54 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Good work randygo and danielo!
I'm a windows MFC/C++ programmer. If you and Danielo can fix the timeline than I can help you to create a user frienly interface for it...


JimmyT
(Planeteer)
11/16/06 03:27 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Bear, can you link us to your C routine?

bear
(Planeteer)
11/16/06 05:14 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Jimmy - I don't really have a way to to link the .exe. If someone has a webpage where they can put it I will email it to them to put it out there. Or if anyone wants to try it, just PM me or email and I will send...

It is still pretty crude, but it seems to work. I have stripped about 10 old backup discs, and compared the TAKE files produced to the stored TAKE files in the same song, and they match. What a weird thing it is to hear some of the stuff I recorded 7 or 8 years ago.....

There is a bit of strangeness in that the roland seems to arbitrarily name the TAKE files .... everytime you save the files it changes the names....

Also it makes no attempt at trying to figure out where on the timeline of a song the TAKE exists....It just builds a set of .VR6 files that match what the VS1680 would have in the directory of the equivilant song.

I am in the process of adding the ability to strip out the EVENTLIST, SONGLIST files etc. that the roland song directory would have.


Arjan van Gog
(Planeteer)
11/16/06 06:05 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Hi guys,

This is pretty cool stuff I must say. If I wasn't so busy at work I'd definitely join in but as it is I hardly have time to do anything music related.

Bear, you could use something like this to host your files:

http://www.sendspace.com/

It won't stay there forever though.


randygo
(Planeteer)
11/16/06 06:29 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>I don't really have a way to to link the .exe. If
>someone has a webpage where they can put it I will
>email it to them to put it out there. Or if anyone
>wants to try it, just PM me or email and I will
>send...

bear,

Nice work, it looks like your solving another important piece of the puzzle!

Why not post your C code in a forum message? Unless its way too long, just paste it between some code tags like:

 Code:
This is my C code.
Cheers,

Randy


bear
(Planeteer)
11/17/06 01:12 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Sure here is the source as it stands...I apologize for the relative crudeness of the source compared to yours or danielo's rather elegant source....

But hey it seems to work...

 Code:
// This is the main project file for VC++ application project 
// generated using an Application Wizard.

#include "stdafx.h"
#using <mscorlib.dll>
using namespace System;
#include <stdio.h>
#include <sys/stat.h>

/*
    VS1680 Backup Disc TAKE stripper
	Don Speirs 11/15/06

	Must work on an .iso image of a 1680 roland backup disc 

	Rev 0.0.0
*/

long fsize(const char *const name);
unsigned int FindTAKE0(unsigned int SRIndex, char* SR);
void MakeTakeFileName(char* outFileName,unsigned int InIndex,char* ShiftReg);
unsigned int FindVS1680ET25D(unsigned int SRIndex,char* SR);

//*****************************************************************************
int _tmain(int argc, char **argv)
{

	long WhereAmI;
	unsigned int State = 0;
	unsigned int i;
	char ShiftReg[32];
	unsigned int InIndex = 0;	
    	char* inFileName  = NULL;
	char outFileName[30];
	long FileSize;

	FILE* fin; 
	FILE* fout; 

// Process input file name

    if(inFileName == NULL) 
		inFileName  = argv[1];

	if(inFileName  == NULL &#0124;&#0124; strlen(inFileName)  == 0)
	{
		printf("Usage: rdr <input_file> \n");
		exit(0);
	}

// Open the input file or error out

	if((fin = fopen(inFileName,  "rb")) == NULL)
	{
		printf("INPUT FILE NOT FOUND\n");
		exit(0);
	}

// Binary file so need to know length to check for EOF

	if((FileSize  = fsize(inFileName)) == -1)
	{
		printf("ERROR in deteriming file size\n");
		exit(0);
	}

// When looking for TAKExxxx need to be 5 ahead of store in the shift register

	fread(ShiftReg, 1, 5, fin);
	InIndex = 5;

// Run all the way to file end

	while((WhereAmI = ftell(fin)) < FileSize)
	{

// Stuff incoming data bytes into circular buffer

		ShiftReg[InIndex++] = getc(fin);
		if(InIndex == 32)
			InIndex = 0;

// Run State Machine

		switch(State)
		{
		case 0:

// State0 is looking for a START TAKE delimiter

			State = FindTAKE0(InIndex,ShiftReg);
			break;

		case 1:

// State1 is building the filename for this TAKE (<Songname (12bytes)><TAKExxxx>)

			for(i=0;i<3;i++)
			{
				ShiftReg[InIndex++] = getc(fin);
				if(InIndex == 32)
					InIndex = 0;
			}

			MakeTakeFileName(outFileName,InIndex,ShiftReg);
			if((fout = fopen(outFileName,	"wb")) == NULL)
			{
				printf("ERROR creating output file\n");
				exit(0);
			}

// Don't know why data is so far after the delimiter but it seems to be consistant over several backup discs....

			fseek(fin, 0x5BBD, 1);

// Stay 16 ahead of file write for finding the END OF TAKE delimiter

			fread(ShiftReg, 1, 16, fin);
			InIndex = 16;			

			State = 2;
			break;

		case 2:

// State2 is write the data until the END OF TAKE delimiter found
// When delimiter found close file and start looking for another TAKE until all input bytes processed
// This is 1680 specific??? what do other VS machines look like???

			if(FindVS1680ET25D(InIndex,ShiftReg))
			{
				fclose(fout);
				State = 0;

// When looking for the next TAKExxxx need to be 5 ahead of store in the shift register

				fread(ShiftReg, 1, 5, fin);
				InIndex = 5;
			}
			else			
				putc(ShiftReg[(32 + InIndex - 11)%32],fout);			
			
			break;
		}
	}

    fclose(fin);
    fclose(fout);
}
//*****************************************************************************
unsigned int FindTAKE0(unsigned int SRIndex, char* SR)
{
// Find START OF TAKE delimiter
// Get enough data to build the file name from the buffer while doing it

	unsigned int Index;
	char* Datapntr;

	Index = (32 + SRIndex - 5)%32;

	Datapntr = SR + Index;
	if(*Datapntr != 'T')
		return(0);

	Index++;
	if(Index == 32)
		Index = 0;

	Datapntr = SR + Index;
	if(*Datapntr != 'A')
		return(0);

	Index++;
	if(Index == 32)
		Index = 0;

	Datapntr = SR + Index;
	if(*Datapntr != 'K')
		return(0);

	Index++;
	if(Index == 32)
		Index = 0;

	Datapntr = SR + Index;
	if(*Datapntr != 'E')
		return(0);

	Index++;
	if(Index == 32)
		Index = 0;

// The word TAKE exists other places but always followed by a space

	Datapntr = SR + Index;
	if(*Datapntr == ' ')
		return(0);

// We have a full TAKEx string in the circular buffer...time to start saving the data

	return(1);
}

unsigned int FindVS1680ET25D(unsigned int SRIndex,char* SR)
{
// END OF TAKE delimiter in a 1680 backup

	unsigned int Index;
	char* Datapntr;

	Index = (32 + SRIndex - 11)%32;

	Datapntr = SR + Index;
	if(*Datapntr != 'V')
		return(0);

	Index++;
	if(Index == 32)
		Index = 0;

	Datapntr = SR + Index;
	if(*Datapntr != 'S')
		return(0);

	Index++;
	if(Index == 32)
		Index = 0;

	Datapntr = SR + Index;
	if(*Datapntr != '1')
		return(0);

	Index++;
	if(Index == 32)
		Index = 0;

	Datapntr = SR + Index;
	if(*Datapntr != '6')
		return(0);

	Index++;
	if(Index == 32)
		Index = 0;

	Datapntr = SR + Index;
	if(*Datapntr != '8')
		return(0);

	Index++;
	if(Index == 32)
		Index = 0;

	Datapntr = SR + Index;
	if(*Datapntr != '0')
		return(0);

	Index++;
	if(Index == 32)
		Index = 0;

	Datapntr = SR + Index;
	if(*Datapntr != 'E')
		return(0);

	Index++;
	if(Index == 32)
		Index = 0;

	Datapntr = SR + Index;
	if(*Datapntr != 'T')
		return(0);

	Index++;
	if(Index == 32)
		Index = 0;

	Datapntr = SR + Index;
	if(*Datapntr != '2')
		return(0);

	Index++;
	if(Index == 32)
		Index = 0;

	Datapntr = SR + Index;
	if(*Datapntr != '5')
		return(0);

	Index++;
	if(Index == 32)
		Index = 0;

	Datapntr = SR + Index;
	if(*Datapntr != 'D')
		return(0);

	return(1);

}
void MakeTakeFileName(char* outFileName,unsigned int InIndex,char* SR)
{
// Use song name and take# to build a file name (<Songname (12bytes)><TAKExxxx>)

	unsigned int Index,i;
	char* DataPntr;

	Index = (32+InIndex-31)%32;
	DataPntr = SR + Index;

	for(i=0;i<12;i++)
	{
		*outFileName++ = *DataPntr;
		Index++;
		DataPntr++;

		if(Index == 32)
		{
			Index = 0;
			DataPntr -= 32;
		}
	}

	for(i=0;i<10;i++)
	{
		Index++;
		DataPntr++;
		if(Index == 32)
		{
			Index = 0;
			DataPntr -= 32;
		}
	}	

	for(i=0;i<8;i++)
	{
		*outFileName++ = *DataPntr;

		Index++;
		DataPntr++;

		if(Index == 32)
		{
			Index = 0;
			DataPntr -= 32;
		}
	}

	*outFileName++ = '.';
	*outFileName++ = 'V';
	*outFileName++ = 'R';
	*outFileName++ = '6';
}

long fsize(const char *const name)
{
// Find the length of the file

    struct stat stbuf;
    if(stat(name, &stbuf) == -1)
        return -1; // The file could not be accessed.
 
    return stbuf.st_size;
}


JimmyT
(Planeteer)
11/17/06 01:55 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Bear's utility available here.

btw...hasn't worked for me yet. But I'm on 2480. That could be the issue. Or else my cheap freebee ISO writer.


bear
(Planeteer)
11/17/06 02:07 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

no I would not expect it to work on a 2480....

the way it finds the end of any particular take data is to look for the string "VS1680ET25D".

I will bet the 2480 uses a different string. I need to have a 2480 backup to see what it does... maybe I will hit up my buddy Frank Griffith to get one over the weekend...

But I will bet you the backup for any given VS machine will do things in a similar way. just need to see what delimters each one uses......


randygo
(Planeteer)
11/17/06 07:15 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>I apologize for the relative crudeness of the source

No apologies required! The important thing is that the knowledge is shared.

Nice work. I think between this, the MTP decoding, and the event list decoding, we are on the threshold of producing some truly powerful utilities.

I'm in the process of mapping out the VS-1680 event list now, so that I may add complete track export capability to MTP2WAV and the ability to create an EDL for importing a project natively into Reaper.

Cheers,

Randy


randygo
(Planeteer)
11/17/06 07:17 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>no I would not expect it to work on a 2480....

I am sure Danielo could adapt bear's work to the 2480 quickly :-)

Cheers,

Randy


Randyman...
(Planeteer)
11/17/06 07:53 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Hey Randygo,

Do you have a Paypal E-Mail account setup? I sent Danielo a small donation, and I would love to do the same for your hard work. You guys blow my mind.

Rock on


randygo
(Planeteer)
11/17/06 05:25 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Randyman,

Sure, my email is randy@integrand.com. Much appreciated!

Cheers,

Randy


JimmyT
(Planeteer)
11/17/06 07:22 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

I'm just really excited about this effort. But also quite a bit peeved. It amazes me that a handful of individuals, working independently in their spare time, are able to do in a few weeks what an entire large corporation couldn't (or maybe wouldn't) do over the course of several years.


I guess the key word in the above paragraph is "wouldn't". \:\( :rolleyes: :censored:


flatcatAdministrator
(Loquacious Planeteer)
11/17/06 07:52 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Here's the piece I don't understand: compression.

If RDAC is a compression algorithm, what exactly are these utilities doing? How does one uncompress the data?

Just trying to understand this better - I have no doubt that it all works (and I offer my congratulations), I just can't wrap my head around how this "conversion" is happening, and I don't speak C well enough to figure it out. \:D


randygo
(Planeteer)
11/17/06 07:55 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Well, when I though about how long it would take to stream a full 16GB worth of audio from my VS-1680 to my PC using the real-time S/PDIF connection, I realized I could probably figure out the MTP format, re-educate myself with Windows and C programming (have not done this for 10 years), and write a converter in a shorter amount of time. How screwed up is that?!

Cheers,

Randy


bear
(Planeteer)
11/18/06 01:14 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

I went into town and borrowed a couple of 2480 backup CDs from Frank Griffith (thanks Frank!).

As I suspected, the delimiters around the TAKE chunks inside the .iso image are different. I will have a TAKE file stripper for the 2480 shortly....actually a program to handle either...

Has anyone used the 1680 version yet? I would like verification that it works on someone else system other than mine.....


randygo
(Planeteer)
11/18/06 01:20 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

bear,

It has also come to my attention that the VS-1880 may be different yet again. It seems this system tends to use a "VR5" extension rather than "VR6".

I don't know if this information is useful to you.

Cheers,

Randy


bear
(Planeteer)
11/18/06 01:30 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

@Flatcat - RDAC takes chunks of 16 24 bit samples (48 bytes) and by performing math magic stores them as 16 bytes (3:1 compression)

What Randygo's application does is perform the inverse math magic to take these 16 byte chunks and turn them back into 24 bit samples in a .wav format file. (how the hell he figured out the exact math technique to use is still blowing my mind).

But it really works, I have converted several dozen files using his routine over the last couple of days, and they come out as nice wave files that can be played from the PC.

I have done some special test cases with pure sine waves, and then looked at the spectral content, and the reconstructed files are pretty good.

Also Danielo has compared the .wav files produced by the 2480 to the .wav constructed by Randygo's utility, and my understanding is they are at least better than 99% the same.....


bear
(Planeteer)
11/18/06 01:33 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

@randygo - yes I am seeing the TAKEs from the 2480 are .VR1 files... the 1680 is .VR6

It will probably be possible to deal with 1880 backups also, but I will need someone to send me a backup disc to look at.......


bear
(Planeteer)
11/18/06 01:36 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Who out there has C source or knows how to do a raw sector read of a CD????

Converting to .iso is not real hard, but it sure would be cool to just read the CD directly.....

I think I heard Danielo say he knew how to do it...


bear
(Planeteer)
11/18/06 06:23 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

HeHe it all seems to work. Now reads both 1680 and 2480 backup discs (or actually a .iso image of a backup disc) and strips out all TAKE files.

As it strips the TAKE files it converts them to .wav inline.......


edited 11/29 - I removed the source listing - it was out of date and silly big


bear
(Planeteer)
11/18/06 06:26 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

I am going to email the .exe and the source to JimmyT. Hopefully he will be nice enough to put them on his site and post a link......

bear
(Planeteer)
11/18/06 06:36 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Oh I still need to put in the command line stuff for variable sample rates and bit depths....

Right now it is hardcoded at 44100khz and 24bit...


randygo
(Planeteer)
11/18/06 07:25 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

bear,

Wow, thats one long post :-). My decode method is a little on the long size!

Normally, I keep things short and sweet, but my thinking with that was that I would try to code it such that it would execute as fast as possible, minimizing lookups and any other unnecessary operations. So there is a pattern lookup, a switch statement to the pattern value, and then a bunch of macro operations to implement the bit shifts etc., hopefully it all gets compiled down into some tight code. In truth I never benchmarked it, so perhaps that decode method could be written in to be one tenth its size without any adverse performance impact. If I was just a bit more obsessive I'm sure I'd be still tuning a hand-coded assembler version.

I don't have a CD burner for my VS-1680, so unfortunately I can't try your stuff, but its good to know you have solved this problem if I ever get one.

Cheers,

Randy


bear
(Planeteer)
11/18/06 08:37 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

yeah it is getting silly to be posting long sources....

In the interest of just getting it to work I just cut and pasted your decode and wave packer into one flat file....the compiler was giving me grief about having it in seperate modules for some reason, and I was too lazy to figure it out.....

I did make a small change just now.... when nero makes a .nrg file it pads a bunch of zero's into the front....this was breaking the 2480/1680 determination


nyaben
(Planeteer)
11/18/06 02:58 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Someone mentioned the need to test reading with a 1680 backup. I could do it whenever it is available. How does it work...I know Windows XP doesn't even recognize the backup CDs I've made. Does it use some low level type read of the disc?

Thanks for all the great work...you guys are amazing.


bear
(Planeteer)
11/18/06 06:26 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

@nyaben - I am looking into how low level sector reading of a CD could be done. If I can figure that out, then the program could be made to read a roland disc directly.

As it stands the program works on an .iso image of the backup disc. There are several programs that can produce .iso image files. I am successfully using alcohol120% and nero, but I think some versions of roxio etc also work.

I would recommend alcohol120%. You can get a free 30 day eval of it from

http://www.alcohol-soft.com/

And then it is only $50 or so to buy if you like it. It will basically copy any CD or DVD put to it, and the .iso files it produces work fine with my utility.

Send me a PM with your email and I will send the .exe of the stripper program....


bear
(Planeteer)
11/18/06 08:47 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

I downloaded several .iso ripping shareware/freeware programs to see if they can handle the roland backup discs...

Most can't -

EZDVDCDBURN3
isocommander
poweriso33
Magiciso
winiso53
isobuster
isorecorderv2rc1

all don't work


I found one that works great - shareware - free to try $30 to buy ..... Ultraiso

http://www.ezbsystems.com/enindex.html

So so far I have been successful with alcohol120%, NERO and Ultraiso. All three rip .iso images (nero rips a .nrg file) with no problem in a format that my utility can handle fine....


Mangled
(Space Cadet)
11/18/06 10:26 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Hey guys,

It has been a while since I visited the good old VS planet. But what a surprise...this mtp2wav thing is just GREAT news.
It seems we will be able to ressurect recordings that we all forgot we ever made them (talking 1995 here) and do some auto tune on that damn vocal track. Put some convolution reverbs on those di tracks..and so on...That's what I would call a remix!
Especially this tool thats reads the iso images is a perfect add on.

Keep it up...VS planet still ROCKS!!

Erwin


Doofie
(Planeteer)
11/19/06 12:38 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

So is this an easy thing to do? For us computer dopes, does the exe. file explain what to do?

bear
(Planeteer)
11/19/06 01:11 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

1. make a .iso file of a roland backup disc (see above for programs to do this)

2. put the .exe and the .iso in a temp directory somewhere

3. open a dos command window and go to this directory

4. Run the program. All the TAKE chunks in the .iso will be converted to .VR6 files (what the roland uses for it's storage) and .wav files that can be opened in other music programs.


flatcatAdministrator
(Loquacious Planeteer)
11/19/06 06:52 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

You should be able to create .iso files using Nero. That I remember, you can specify it the type of image you make - but I haven't looked at it in a little while. But I used to do it all the time.

hunter
(Space Cadet)
11/19/06 08:57 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

 Quote:
Originally posted by bear:
1. make a .iso file of a roland backup disc (see above for programs to do this)

2. put the .exe and the .iso in a temp directory somewhere

3. open a dos command window and go to this directory

4. Run the program. All the TAKE chunks in the .iso will be converted to .VR6 files (what the roland uses for it's storage) and .wav files that can be opened in other music programs.
I can almost understand this. The remaining question is which ".exe" file are you referring to? And assuming I can get that software that'll make ISO file out of my Roland backup CDs.

And thanks to all. This looks like a huge and commendable effort to me.

hunter


bear
(Planeteer)
11/20/06 01:16 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

The .exe is the one you get when you PM or email me asking me to send it you ..... currently called VsRdr_ver002.exe. I really need to find a place to put this where people can download it.

Currently only works with 1680 and 2480 backups... I need someone to send me a 1880 backup disc so I can add in that functionality.


Making a .iso is very easy with either alcohol or ultraiso, mentioned above with links to download...


bear
(Planeteer)
11/20/06 01:36 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

I just put the file on easy share

download


JimmyT
(Planeteer)
11/20/06 07:57 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Sorry Bear, been out of the loop for awhile. I see you found a place to post it. Looks like great work. Can't wait to try it.

Neil B
(Space Cadet)
11/21/06 12:32 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Downloaded bear's program for stripping wav files out of a 1680 backup disc and had a go. Worked perfectly on one of my MTP songs..!!


Out of interest I had a go with another old backup disc which contained 10 songs recorded in a mixture of MT1, MT2 and LIV modes (they were imported from my old VS880). The 10 songs took 12 minutes to strip all 425 VR6 Take files (507MB) and the corresponding 425 Wav files (1.51GB). (...Just a bit quicker than doing it 2 tracks at a time via the digital output!) I expected the Wav files to sound garbage (as this is a decoder for MTP right?). Indeed this was the case for the MT2 and LIV tracks... BUT the MT1 tracks played perfectly! How's that for a bonus!


To randygo, danielo, bear et al. - been following these threads with interest. Many congratulations on a fantastic job so far... keep it going.


randygo
(Planeteer)
11/21/06 12:46 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>BUT the MT1 tracks played perfectly!

Holy cow. You mean we've unknowingly had MT1 all along? Are you sure they were MT1?

I knew the encodings were probably similar, I guess they are pretty much identical. There might be a few adjustments required to deal with the 16/24-bit difference, but I will look into this.

Cheers,

Randy


bear
(Planeteer)
11/21/06 05:05 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Thanks for the feedback Neil... great to hear it worked correctly for you... is it working for anyone else?

That is very interesting about the MT1...

I am working now on making the program also strip out the eventlist files and other files that are embedded in the backup discs..

Using these with the reaper importer randygo is working on, it should be possible to pull all data out and build a file with all clips lined up correctly on a timeline. How cool will that be!!!!!


nyaben
(Planeteer)
11/21/06 03:00 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Was about to ask about the other files (song, event list)...looks like you're already on the case bear.

Thanks again for all you are doing.


Mike_Strat
(Planeteer)
11/21/06 05:36 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

God bless each and every one of you working on this!
This is wayyyyy over my head so I have a couple clarifying questions:

Do I have it right that this would enable VS-1680/1880/2480 tracks to be imported from a data backup CD-R into a computer audio recording program such as Sonar? Would that be one track at a time or maybe all tracks at once?

Thank you VERY much! Mike \:\)


Nathan's Dad
(Planeteer)
11/21/06 05:54 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Yep Mike,

I believe the end result is all tracks at once. Did you see this thread?

http://www.vsplanet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=022178;p=2


James


Nathan's Dad
(Planeteer)
11/21/06 06:01 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

And this is the most current thread:

http://www.vsplanet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=022189


Mike_Strat
(Planeteer)
11/21/06 07:13 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Thank you, James, for those links. I had not seen them. It's a LOT to sift through! Whew!

Another question:
Is a SCSI interface needed on a PC for this to work? You can't just pop a VS backup data CD-R into the PC's CD ROM drive? or???

Mike


Nathan's Dad
(Planeteer)
11/21/06 08:35 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Another question:
Is a SCSI interface needed on a PC for this to work? You can't just pop a VS backup data CD-R into the PC's CD ROM drive? or???

bear is currently working on the utility that will eventually integrate into reaper to allow use of the VS backup cdr.


randygo
(Planeteer)
11/21/06 08:46 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>bear is currently working on the utility that
>will eventually integrate into reaper to allow
>use of the VS backup cdr.

As far as I know, bear's utility helps strip out the data files from the backup CD an place them into the PC filesystem as regular files. Once this is done, then the SONG file can be opened in Reaper using my plugin, or other tools can be used.

I don't think it makes a lot of sense to "integrate" bear's utility into Reaper in any way.

Cheers,

Randy


Nathan's Dad
(Planeteer)
11/21/06 09:46 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Oops...

Randy,

Just to be clear, at this point with your Reaper plug-in, is it or is it not possible to open songs from a VS backup CDR?

Thanks

James


randygo
(Planeteer)
11/21/06 11:03 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>with your Reaper plug-in, is it or is it not
>possible to open songs from a VS backup CDR?

No. You would need to "strip" out the songs from the backup CD into your filesystem using bear's tool first.

If you "Copy Song Playable" from your VS onto some kind of removable media, then move the media to your PC, you can open the song directly with Reaper and my plugin.

Cheers,

Randy


Mike_Strat
(Planeteer)
11/22/06 08:03 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Randygo said:
..."Copy Song Playable" from your VS onto some kind of removable media, then move the media to your PC...

I see that Nathans Dad (James) is using a SyJet SCSI cartdridge drive hooked up to his computer via a SCSI card. What other media is possible? Does it require a SCSI card, also?

Thank you, Thank you! Mike \:\)


bear
(Planeteer)
11/22/06 10:22 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

@ Mike - I bought a SCSI ZIP drive at a junk computer store the other day for $14... only good for small projects but works great..this is what I am using to help me in development of a CD ripper.

I think randygo uses a SCSI CF flash card interace... lots of hard drive options.. the ACARD setup would work great....

Of course you need a SCSI interface in your PC also... not really a big deal probably <$20 on ebay these days...i had an old adaptec from years ago I pulled out of junk box.

However in my mind, the great majority of 1680 users have a CD burner and that is it. They want to take their CD backups and import to PC.

Many of us have stacks of old CD backups that will probably rot on the shelf because it is too much work to pull them into the 1680, then figure out what they are and then import to PC somehow.

That is why I am struggling to build a utility to rip the tracks off of a roland backup CD...

I am getting there, I am now successfully pulling enough files off of an .iso image of a roland backup CD to let randygo's reaper utility pull in a project....still some bugs when I try larger projects and multiple backups on a single CD... but I am convinced we will get there.....

I am convinced within the next while it will be possible to stick a roland CD in your PC and end up with a DAW full of files that all work... even if it takes a couple of steps....


LarryBoy
(Planeteer)
11/22/06 02:28 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Hey Bear
Did anyone ever send a backup disk from an 1880 for you? All I have are zip disks, that's not what your looking for is it? I haven't recorded for awhile but all of this has really got me juiced to get off my butt and start again.Since I have been on this site everyone always dreamed of the very thing you guys are doing, thanks so much for the time and effort you all have put into this.
Am looking forward to see the end result so we can use the 1880 too!
Thanks again guys!!!!!!!


Mike_Strat
(Planeteer)
11/22/06 04:53 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Bear,

Thanks much for the explanation. I can see using both ways of importing VS tracks; from CD-R backup disks and from an external SCSI drive.
I have been using an external SCSI hard drive for backing up VS-1880 songs, so I'll look for a SCSI card to hook up to my PC computer. Cool!

Mike \:\)


bear
(Planeteer)
11/22/06 04:53 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Yes I need a 1880 BACKUP CD from someone.... Funkybeat? Someone???? Just about anything backed up......what would be really good is a set of the .vr6 files from the same project also so I can verify output files when done.....

Also one from a 1824 to make sure they are the same would probably be good.....


Nathan's Dad
(Planeteer)
11/22/06 04:59 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Bear, I can mail you a backup cd from my 1880, but the files for the 1880 are .VR5. If you would PM me your address I'll get a cd in the mail asap!

Thanks

James


Nathan's Dad
(Planeteer)
11/22/06 05:00 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Mike, I sent you a private message, check it out.

James


Gray Crosby
(Planeteer)
11/28/06 07:51 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Hello:

I've been attempting to use your (Bears)utility for getting wav files out of the VS1680.

I was able to get the files "stripped"....but when I attempt to play them.....I'm just getting noise....bad wave noise. The files all look maxed out in the cakewalk (sonar) program I use.

I tried to play them on other players as well (Itunes, Window Media,) but just get the same noise.

I'm trying to determine if the cd I have saved from the vs1680 is defective....or if the is not converting them correctly. I've tried it on a few disks now...and it seems to keep happening. I AM able to burn finalized disks with this cd burner that work fine.

Any advice?

Thanks for all you work...I don't post much at VSPlanet anymore...but If I am able to transfer files to a computer...I'll use the machine more...I love it for recording live tracks.

By the way....Im using the vsrdr_ver002.exe to execute the program. I just put that file in the directory with the rdr.exe file. I could not get the rdr.exe file to work....but the vsrdr_ver002 did work. DOes this matter?


bear
(Planeteer)
11/28/06 10:07 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

What program are you using to make the .iso of the backup CD?

Is the stripper utility creating .wavs that are about 3x the size of the .VR6 files?

When you import the .wavs into sonar are they being recognized as 24 bit mono?

I am surprised that you say you can even open the .wavs in media player, it sure won't on mine.

Throw away the rdr.exe file, it is no good. The vsrdr_ver002.exe should work...

You are working with a song recorded in MTP mode on the VS1680? It almost sounds like you are trying to convert .MT2 files....

Can you download the reaper trial (free) and see if the .VR6 files can be opened with randygo's .dll?


Gray Crosby
(Planeteer)
11/28/06 02:32 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

 Quote:
Originally posted by bear:
What program are you using to make the .iso of the backup CD?

Is the stripper utility creating .wavs that are about 3x the size of the .VR6 files?

When you import the .wavs into sonar are they being recognized as 24 bit mono?

I am surprised that you say you can even open the .wavs in media player, it sure won't on mine.

Throw away the rdr.exe file, it is no good. The vsrdr_ver002.exe should work...

You are working with a song recorded in MTP mode on the VS1680? It almost sounds like you are trying to convert .MT2 files....

Can you download the reaper trial (free) and see if the .VR6 files can be opened with randygo's .dll?
1. I used Alcohol...which seemed to make the file fine....I also have Roxio which also seemed to make the file fine.

2. Example Take .vr6 file is 1.53mb .wav file is 4.59 mb.

3. Uh oh....I AM trying to convert mt2 files.....looks like I recorded a bunch of stuff that way (it was awhile ago).....is it not possible to convert these files?

Is there a way to change mt2 files to mtp mode?

4. You are right. It will not open in media player. It does open in I-tunes however.


bear
(Planeteer)
11/28/06 05:37 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Randygo, our resident code god who cracked RDAC in MTP mode has said he may extend the decoder to handle MT2, but currently it only does MTP (although 1 person has said it also accidently works with MT1 also)

Gray Crosby
(Planeteer)
11/28/06 06:39 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

 Quote:
Originally posted by bear:
Randygo, our resident code god who cracked RDAC in MTP mode has said he may extend the decoder to handle MT2, but currently it only does MTP (although 1 person has said it also accidently works with MT1 also)
I thought that a mt2 decoder was available...since thats the title of the pinned topic at the top of the page?

Doing my best to follow everything...threads are kind of all over the place.

THanks


Mike_Strat
(Planeteer)
11/28/06 07:12 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

quote:
I thought that a mt2 decoder was available...since thats the title of the pinned topic at the top of the page?

Randygo started with MT2 thinking that it would be less complicated, but it was just as complicated, and so he then switched to MT Pro (see the first few posts in that "pinned topic").

Mike


randygo
(Planeteer)
11/28/06 08:21 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>I thought that a mt2 decoder was available...
>since thats the title of the pinned topic at
>the top of the page?

Yes, my MT2 decoder started the ball rolling, but it has languished while Danielo and I moved forward with the MTP decoder, which was seen as a much more useful development.

I just need to polish the MT2 decoder up a bit more and rewrite it in C to integrate it with the current utilities. This is on the todo list, but is not a high priority.

In hindsight, the MT2 decoder is somewhat more complicated than MTP, due to the weird page alignment and 12-byte blocks!

Cheers,

Randy


Gray Crosby
(Planeteer)
11/29/06 03:29 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

 Quote:
Originally posted by randygo:
>I thought that a mt2 decoder was available...
>since thats the title of the pinned topic at
>the top of the page?

Yes, my MT2 decoder started the ball rolling, but it has languished while Danielo and I moved forward with the MTP decoder, which was seen as a much more useful development.

I just need to polish the MT2 decoder up a bit more and rewrite it in C to integrate it with the current utilities. This is on the todo list, but is not a high priority.

In hindsight, the MT2 decoder is somewhat more complicated than MTP, due to the weird page alignment and 12-byte blocks!

Cheers,

Randy
Ahhh..ok then....lots of technical stuff in there.....I missed the part where it was switched to MTP. Still....great work by you guys.....I look forward to being able to use your program anyway. I'll just start recording MTP files......YES! I can use my cool little VS1680...its been languishing....and I always really liked it.

That said.....none of the links worked? Is the MTP decoder available somwhere?

I guess the bottom line is that at present time there is no decoder for mt2 files.....and the only way to get them onto a pc would be to use digital out 2 tracks at a time. COrrect?


Danielo
(Planeteer)
11/29/06 08:55 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

as i need to convert several old mt2 projects, its is on my todo list for this weekend. i'll come up with a c source like decode.c for mt2 soon.

cheers.


bear
(Planeteer)
11/29/06 04:51 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

@Danielo - do you have any sample code or can you point me to a link that allows direct low level sector read of a CD?

Danielo
(Planeteer)
11/29/06 08:34 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

bear,

you can download the waveconverter source:

http://www.thegoodlibrary.com/VSWaveExport.zip

its vb, but if you look at the modDriveAccess.bas you should be able to figure out the used apis.
The project includes FAT32 and FAT16 Filesystem interpretation as well.

cheers


Danielo
(Planeteer)
11/30/06 05:36 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

pardon bear, misread your request as direct _harddisk_ access... let me look this up....

i've got a VB Source here from a guy in germany able to read CD sektors directly, downloaded it once from his homepage (he does not seem to have it up anymore...)
http://www.thegoodlibrary.com/Flamed3.zip

what you are looking for is in the Sektorenbrowser folder.
i have not tried it with vs cds, but i think it should be able to read them.

heres the guy current page for completeness:
http://actorics.de/rm_code/

you may also find other usable links maybe wit c examples in the source code.
but maybe there is already ready to use c code out there as well?

aspi source DeviceIoControl may throw some results in google.

cheers


Danielo
(Planeteer)
11/30/06 05:43 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

pardon once again, bit confused ;-)<)~
the Sektorenbrowser Folder contains a vb sample project, if you dont have or want to open the vb project, the source files for the cd access are of course clsCDROM.cls and modMMC.bas in the top level folder.


bear
(Planeteer)
11/30/06 08:38 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Thanks a bunch Danielo... Looks like I have a bunch of studying to do.....

randygo
(Planeteer)
11/30/06 11:28 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>as i need to convert several old mt2 projects,
>its is on my todo list for this weekend. i'll
>come up with a c source like decode.c for mt2 soon.

Danielo, I have coded a new version of decode.c that will do MT2 and possibly MT1 as well, a bit more testing and I will make it available in a day or so.

Cheers,

Randy


Gray Crosby
(Planeteer)
12/01/06 06:21 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

 Quote:
Originally posted by randygo:
>as i need to convert several old mt2 projects,
>its is on my todo list for this weekend. i'll
>come up with a c source like decode.c for mt2 soon.

Danielo, I have coded a new version of decode.c that will do MT2 and possibly MT1 as well, a bit more testing and I will make it available in a day or so.

Cheers,

Randy
Sa---weeeet!


randygo
(Planeteer)
12/01/06 09:10 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Okay, the code is written, but I see I have a bug or two to work out. I have a few other commitments in the meantime. I hope to publish it by Saturday night.

Cheers,

Randy


Danielo
(Planeteer)
12/01/06 09:56 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

randy,

mine is finished and tested, so i'll stick with my implementation anyway. i split the whole thing into 3 source files: macros, decodeMTP and decodeMT2.

i did implement it into the wave export app yesterday and ran it on some projects. got good results, but will look a bit deeper today.

cheers


randygo
(Planeteer)
12/01/06 06:43 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>mine is finished and tested, so i'll stick with my
>implementation anyway. i split the whole thing into
>3 source files: macros, decodeMTP and decodeMT2.

Cool, I've also rewritten the bit extraction and shift logic to be more efficient, along the lines of your earlier suggestion. My version will also have a decodeMT2() method, as well as decodeMT1(). I will publish the the works with a new version of mtp2wav (now called vs2wav), with added options to decode using the additional RDAC modes.

Then, I will work on the next version of my Reaper plugin which will handle the additional modes.

Cheers,

Randy


randygo
(Planeteer)
12/01/06 06:53 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Danielo,

I have been meaning to ask you this, and I just thought about it again when I was refactoring the decode logic:

You suggested using different SHIFT_ROUND macros to achieve the odd-sample doubling for that one bizzaro pattern. Now, I did implement this, but it has always been a concern to me, because the result obtained this way will differ from simply doubling the sample values after the SHIFT_ROUND occurs, as I had original done. It is the rounding operation which causes the difference, due to its dependency on the shift value.

I vaguely recollect that when I determined how this works for MT2, that the doubling after the SHIFT_ROUND gave the more accurate result.

So, my question is, did your method of using the alternating SHIFT_ROUND macros give a more accurate result, or did you just assume it was equivalent to doubling after the SHIFT_ROUND has occurred?

Cheers,

Randy


randygo
(Planeteer)
12/01/06 10:51 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Hmmmm, it is indeed looking like MT1 and MTP are virtually identical. It seems the following patterns do not appear in MT1 encoded files, which makes sense, given that they deal with sample values below the 8-bit threshold:

/* 00..00.. */
/* 00..01.. */
/* 110.000. */
/* 110.001. */
/* 110.010. */
/* 11111011 */
/* 11111100 */
/* 11111101 */
/* 11111110 */
/* 11111111 */

I think it will be safe to use the decodeMTP() routine for MT1 files and just truncate the final 8-bits when rendering to 16-bit.

Cheers,

Randy


randygo
(Planeteer)
12/01/06 11:41 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>I've also rewritten the bit extraction and shift
>logic to be more efficient, along the lines of
>your earlier suggestion.

I just benchmarked this change and now the decode is about twice as fast as before! It may not matter much for batch conversion, but for real-time decoding using the Reaper plugin it should improve performance greatly.

Cheers,

Randy


bear
(Planeteer)
12/01/06 11:56 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Randygo - just a FYI. A long time ago there was a program that converted MAS mode (no RDAC) songs, and I think it was called vs2wav... it might cause confusion if you call yours that also... whatever, you decide

randygo
(Planeteer)
12/02/06 12:44 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

bear, yes I see there was a program of that name in the past. Maybe I'll call it rdac2wav instead. But then if I add MAS support...

Cheers,

Randy


Danielo
(Planeteer)
12/02/06 12:47 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>I just benchmarked this change and now the decode is about twice as fast as before!

well, thats an argument ;-)

regarding the mtp shifting/rounding: i did an automated comparison of the output of the rdacdecode.dll to the wave export output of my scaning testfiles (you know, the ones to identify the patterns) and pattern 11101111 produces a zero match output. All samples in the 1110_1111.txt file are decoded exactly identical with the following source:


 Code:
             out[0]  = MASK_L(in[13], 0x7f, 0);
            out[1]  = MASK_L(in[12], 0x7f, 1) | MASK_R(in[13], 0x80, 7);
            out[2]  = MASK_L(in[9],  0x3f, 1) | MASK_R(in[12], 0x80, 7);
            out[3]  = MASK_L(in[8],  0x3f, 2) | MASK_R(in[9],  0xc0, 6);
            out[4]  = MASK_L(in[5],  0x1f, 2) | MASK_R(in[8],  0xc0, 6);
            out[5]  = MASK_L(in[4],  0x1f, 3) | MASK_R(in[5],  0xe0, 5);
            out[6]  = MASK_L(in[1],  0x0f, 3) | MASK_R(in[4],  0xe0, 5);
            out[7]  = MASK_L(in[0],  0x0f, 4) | MASK_R(in[1],  0xf0, 4);

            out[8]  = MASK_L(in[15], 0x7f, 0);
            out[9]  = MASK_L(in[14], 0x7f, 1) | MASK_R(in[15], 0x80, 7);
            out[10] = MASK_L(in[11], 0x3f, 1) | MASK_R(in[14], 0x80, 7);
            out[11] = MASK_L(in[10], 0x3f, 2) | MASK_R(in[11], 0xc0, 6);
            out[12] = MASK_L(in[7],  0x1f, 2) | MASK_R(in[10], 0xc0, 6);
            out[13] = MASK_L(in[6],  0x1f, 3) | MASK_R(in[7],  0xe0, 5);
            out[14] = MASK_L(in[3],  0x0f, 3) | MASK_R(in[6],  0xe0, 5);
            out[15] = MASK_L(in[2],  0x0f, 4) | MASK_R(in[3],  0xf0, 4);

            SIGN_EXTEND_7(out[0]);  SIGN_EXTEND_8(out[1]);  SIGN_EXTEND_7(out[2]);  SIGN_EXTEND_8(out[3]);
            SIGN_EXTEND_7(out[4]);  SIGN_EXTEND_8(out[5]);  SIGN_EXTEND_7(out[6]);  SIGN_EXTEND_8(out[7]);
            SIGN_EXTEND_7(out[8]);  SIGN_EXTEND_8(out[9]);  SIGN_EXTEND_7(out[10]); SIGN_EXTEND_8(out[11]);
            SIGN_EXTEND_7(out[12]); SIGN_EXTEND_8(out[13]); SIGN_EXTEND_7(out[14]); SIGN_EXTEND_8(out[15]);

            SHIFT_ROUND_17(out[0]);  SHIFT_ROUND_16(out[1]);  SHIFT_ROUND_17(out[2]);  SHIFT_ROUND_16(out[3]);
            SHIFT_ROUND_17(out[4]);  SHIFT_ROUND_16(out[5]);  SHIFT_ROUND_17(out[6]);  SHIFT_ROUND_16(out[7]);
            SHIFT_ROUND_17(out[8]);  SHIFT_ROUND_16(out[9]);  SHIFT_ROUND_17(out[10]); SHIFT_ROUND_16(out[11]);
            SHIFT_ROUND_17(out[12]); SHIFT_ROUND_16(out[13]); SHIFT_ROUND_17(out[14]); SHIFT_ROUND_16(out[15]);

            // 16 linears - but odd samples are doubled
            DECREMENT(out[0]);  DECREMENT(out[1]);  DECREMENT(out[2]);  DECREMENT(out[3]);
            DECREMENT(out[4]);  DECREMENT(out[5]);  DECREMENT(out[6]);  DECREMENT(out[7]);
            DECREMENT(out[8]);  DECREMENT(out[9]);  DECREMENT(out[10]); DECREMENT(out[11]);
            DECREMENT(out[12]); DECREMENT(out[13]); DECREMENT(out[14]); DECREMENT(out[15]);

            LIMIT_24(out[0]);  LIMIT_24(out[1]);  LIMIT_24(out[2]);  LIMIT_24(out[3]);
            LIMIT_24(out[4]);  LIMIT_24(out[5]);  LIMIT_24(out[6]);  LIMIT_24(out[7]);
            LIMIT_24(out[8]);  LIMIT_24(out[9]);  LIMIT_24(out[10]); LIMIT_24(out[11]);
            LIMIT_24(out[12]); LIMIT_24(out[13]); LIMIT_24(out[14]); LIMIT_24(out[15]);
 
bear: here are some links for your cd reader:
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=65147
http://www.moxcdburn.net

cheers


randygo
(Planeteer)
12/02/06 12:50 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

I haven't looked as MAS or M24, are they as trivial a format as I suspect? Do they just comprise a raw sequence of 16-bit and 24-bit sample values respectively? Big-endian? If so, I might as well throw in support for those as well.

Cheers,

Randy


bear
(Planeteer)
12/02/06 01:06 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

@randygo - I looked at MAS mode files a long time ago, and as far as I remember all I had to do was add the .wav metadata to the beginning and they worked fine.... of course MAS is 16 bit and M24 is 24 bit.....

I will dig around a bit. I have a m24 backup CD image to look at...

Thanks for the links Danielo... boy this is more fun than real work


Gray Crosby
(Planeteer)
12/02/06 01:07 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Yikes....at some point Im hoping there will be a link....with a little explanation as to how to use the program?

All the technical stuff is WAYY over my head.

I can use a cell phone however.


Danielo
(Planeteer)
12/02/06 01:17 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

M16 and M24 are both big endian, 2/3 bytes respectively. M16 is plain easy as there is no padding.
M24 is padded, as one vs frame always contains 16 samples, and only complete frames are written in one cluster.
That means that padding is depending on clustersize, which itself is depending on Filesystem. IMHO this is something you have to consider with MT2 as well.
this calculation works on a 10 gig Fat32 Drive:

cbUsedInCluster = int(BytesPerCluster / BytesPerRdacFrame) * BytesPerRdacFrame

bear, thanks for the files, should be easy to throw in support for virdis in my app, as i already do direct disk access.
i also think that a fat32 virdis file will be created if the vs formats it as a 10 gig partition (i.e. reserve around 11Gig on PC for the virtual drive). you would have to consider this in your app as well.

cheers


randygo
(Planeteer)
12/02/06 01:25 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

I just found the vs2wav program you mentioned. I ran it on a test file and it seems that MAS is simply continguous 16-bit samples stored big-endian. So to convert to WAV simply add a header and swap bytes for each sample.

According to a WAV format document I've seen, if the value "RIFX" instead of "RIFF" is used as the chunkId, it will interpret samples as being stored big-endian in the WAV. I'm not sure how well supported this is, so I'll probably convert to little-endian anyway.

I'll add MAS and M24 to my converter now.

Cheers,

Randy


randygo
(Planeteer)
12/02/06 01:41 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>cbUsedInCluster = int(BytesPerCluster / BytesPerRdacFrame) * BytesPerRdacFrame

Danielo,

I did encounter the padding issue when doing MT2 originally, but I'm not sure this calculation is totally accurate. I encountered two variants of page sizes at 32768 and 65536, depending on whether the MT2 file was formatted for VS-840 or VS-880. Now with the 32768 I found the number of frames contained within to be 2730, which agrees with your calculation. However, for the 65536 page size, the number of frames contained within were actually 5460, not 5461 as would fit.

Cheers,

Randy


bear
(Planeteer)
12/02/06 03:13 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

@Gray - LOL.... keep the faith, there is great stuff coming just around the corner....

Danielo
(Planeteer)
12/02/06 01:05 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>However, for the 65536 page size, the number of frames contained within were actually 5460, not 5461 as would fit

well, then i postulate:
only an _even_ number of complete frames is written in one cluster.

cheers


randygo
(Planeteer)
12/02/06 08:52 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>well, then i postulate:
>only an _even_ number of complete frames is
>written in one cluster.

That'll do :-)

Danielo, what cluster sizes have you encountered? I found the 32K and 64K variants with my MT2 investigation. I think I will need to add a "clustersize" option to my standalone rdac2wav converter, since I can not easily know the alignment by looking at the TAKE file alone.

Cheers,

Randy


Danielo
(Planeteer)
12/02/06 10:20 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

a VS 2480 10Gig Partinined HD utilizes FAT32 32768 Bytes/Cluster
i remember 500MB formated drives use FAT16, no idea about the clustersize
the striped virdis files are 5GB formated Fat16, 32768

to enum all variations i would have to test, which in fact should be much easier with a virdis and bears stripper util in place (mobilguy? anyone else?). the task would be to format once in each of the possible partition sizes and everytime extract the first bytes with the util.

cheers


randygo
(Planeteer)
12/03/06 05:52 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>a VS 2480 10Gig Partinined HD utilizes FAT32 32768 Bytes/Cluster

OK, I'm going to assume 32K as the default for M24 and MT2. I know the VS-840 uses 64K, maybe because of the ZIP drive configuration. I'll have an option on rdac2wav to specify either 32k or 64k clustersize for the cases where someone wants to convert MT2 files from a VS-840 (or BR-8).

I might be able to add some heuristics to guess the clustersize from the file extension, for example the VS-840GX uses a .VS4 extension for take files. Unfortunately the VS-840/VS-840EX use a .VR8 extension, just like the VS-880, but the cluster sizes are different! Argh...

Cheers,

Randy


Dr. Altsack aka Volltreffer
(Planeteer)
12/03/06 12:05 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

A short question: why do you want to convert BR8 files - there IS a converter for these machines for download at rolandus...

aXel


Dr. Altsack aka Volltreffer
(Planeteer)
12/03/06 12:07 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

A short question: why do you want to convert BR8 files - there IS a converter for these machines for download at rolandus...

aXel


randygo
(Planeteer)
12/03/06 12:09 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Ok, I promised rdac2wav tonight, but its not going to happen. As far as I know, I've just squashed the last issue, but I'll have to finish testing tomorrow before I post it.

Some big breakthroughs in honing the conversion algorithm. I believe I am nulling 100% with the results of the BR8 Wav converter for both MT1 and MT2. This should also apply to MTP. I believe the interpolation calculation needs a slight adjustment. More details to follow tomorrow.

Cheers,

Randy


randygo
(Planeteer)
12/03/06 11:26 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Here it is:

http://www.integrand.com/vs/rdac2wav.zip

I've also made a note of this at the top of the thread.

It supports MTP, MT1, MT2, M16 and M24.

There was a crucial fix to the INTERPOLATE macro that now decodes identically to output produced by Roland's BR8WAV program, so I am confident this is the best decoder yet. It took me a while to figure out why certain samples were off by one or two from what the Roland decoder produced, so I apologize for the delay.

Cheers,

Randy


Gray Crosby
(Planeteer)
12/04/06 08:13 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

 Quote:
Originally posted by randygo:
Here it is:

http://www.integrand.com/vs/rdac2wav.zip

I've also made a note of this at the top of the thread.

It supports MTP, MT1, MT2, M16 and M24.

There was a crucial fix to the INTERPOLATE macro that now decodes identically to output produced by Roland's BR8WAV program, so I am confident this is the best decoder yet. It took me a while to figure out why certain samples were off by one or two from what the Roland decoder produced, so I apologize for the delay.

Cheers,

Randy
this link does not work for me?


KrasS
(Planeteer)
12/04/06 09:49 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

This link works for me:

http://www.nwlink.com/~randygo/vs/rdac2wav.zip

Regards,

KrasS


randygo
(Planeteer)
12/04/06 09:54 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

I don't know what to say. Maybe my domain forwarding provider is filtering out access from certain users? It works for me at home and at work, and others here have had success accessing the "integrand.com" links.

Cheers,

Randy


Gray Crosby
(Planeteer)
12/05/06 01:29 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

 Quote:
Originally posted by KrasS:
This link works for me:

http://www.nwlink.com/~randygo/vs/rdac2wav.zip

Regards,

KrasS
That one worked!

Thanks


randygo
(Planeteer)
12/07/06 10:11 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

I found a transcription error for one of the MT2 patterns which I discovered while testing MT2 support for my Reaper plugin.

Please update your rdac2wav.exe to version 0.96 here:

http://www.integrand.com/vs/rdac2wav.zip

Cheers,

Randy


Gray Crosby
(Planeteer)
12/08/06 06:55 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

 Quote:
Originally posted by randygo:
I found a transcription error for one of the MT2 patterns which I discovered while testing MT2 support for my Reaper plugin.

Please update your rdac2wav.exe to version 0.96 here:

http://www.integrand.com/vs/rdac2wav.zip

Cheers,

Randy
Can anyone else post this? Some of us cannot get the files from links to the "integrand" site.

When I attempted to open my mt2 song....I was met with a "mt2 encoding are currently not supported" message.

Will this update fix this? Or do I have another issue?


Thanks again for all your hard work.


randygo
(Planeteer)
12/08/06 08:05 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>I was met with a "mt2 encoding are currently not supported" message

I assume you are talking about my Reaper plugin (reaper_vs.dll) - no such message is generated by rdac2wav!

However, good news - I will be shortly (within the next few hours), posting my new Reaper plugin (version 0.93) which will do MT1 and MT2 in addition to MTP. It also should be able to open SONG files for VS-880, VS-880EX, VS-890, VS-840, VS-840EX, and VS-840GX as well.

Cheers,

Randy


Hardrock69
(Planeteer)
12/18/06 06:00 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Guys....this is astonishing.

Considering the end result, there is no excuse whatsoever for Roland NOT providing such a utility.

Randygo, as you are new here, you are not aware of this, but a couple of years ago I wrote a letter directly to the President of Roland International, and then to my surprise I got a reply!

The reply can be read here, along with my opinions on the matter:

http://www.vsplanet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=016783#000000

Needless to say, this is something I have been waiting on for years (literally).

Thanks to you, Danielo, Bear and anyone else who contributed to this.

I can't wait to get home tonight and mess with this!!

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!
\:D


ausser
(Planeteer)
12/19/06 01:56 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

 Quote:
I downloaded several .iso ripping shareware/freeware programs to see if they can handle the roland backup discs...

Most can't -

EZDVDCDBURN3
isocommander
poweriso33
Magiciso
winiso53
isobuster
isorecorderv2rc1

all don't work


I found one that works great - shareware - free to try $30 to buy ..... Ultraiso

http://www.ezbsystems.com/enindex.html
Hi Bear,

I just wanted to point out for anybody with budget probs that I've found Magicdisc to work perfectly for ripping out .iso

It sits in the icon tray when you run it - and you need to right-click on the tray icon to access Magicdisc's functions - but its good - lets you chose destination drive - iso type etc.

Its also freeware.
http://www.magiciso.com/tutorials/miso-magicdisc-overview.htm

Peace
Ausser

PS:

Guys I did my first rip to iso to Rdac to wav into reaper the other night - I'm kinda stunned.
We harped on about this for years - and here I am looking at my nice cool 3-track Lady of Knock in reaper.
This is so button!
Alas the only programming experience I have is with Atari Basic years ago - so I can only help by prayers and good wishes for you guys.

I hope I'm not being too cheeky in asking - in this threads title it says (windows.exe)
Have I missed this - or can we expect a windows executable in the future - perhaps a complete Cdr-Rip2Wave all in the Windows environ?

Also - I know its been muted - but how possible would reversing the process be?
.wav to .vr6 to the actual CDR Roland format for reloading back into the Vs1680?

All that in one XP program, both ways - I'd certainly shell out for...
It would mean 1680 owners could store large projects on DVDs via the PC.

But I sure am very greatful that I now at least can get the audio from the VS to my PC - for easier more extensive processing - using the 1680 as a main REC unit.


bear
(Planeteer)
12/19/06 03:13 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

@Ausser - thanks for the headsup. Are you aware the latest version of the CD ripper works directly on backup discs, no .iso creation necessary? win98SE users will still need to convert to .iso first though, maybe this app would work for them....

PC back in to VS format, although I think is theoretically possible, would be a lot of work. I wouldn't expect to see it any time soon (unless some hot shot programmer out there takes it on)

For now, just setting up a little batch file to run the CD ripper sortof makes it work from windows directly. See Funkybeats thread for description.


bear
(Planeteer)
12/19/06 05:03 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

I just downloaded magiciso and indeed it is a nice little iso creation program. Works fine for me, and very fast and easy. Roland files rip fine from the iso created.

RGR
(Planeteer)
12/19/06 02:42 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

I am in awe of you guys for doing this. Great work and thankyou. I am what might be termed as an extreme technophobe, which is why it has taken me a while to read this thread. I have downloaded the zipped files and extracted them. But thats as far as I can get. When I try to run them nothing happens. I'll keep trying, 'cos this sounds to kool to miss. \:\)

bear
(Planeteer)
12/19/06 06:13 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

RGR - go to funkybeats thread... he explains it all in pretty simple terms.

jimmyrock
(Planeteer)
01/06/07 09:36 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bear:


PC back in to VS format, although I think is theoretically possible, would be a lot of work. I wouldn't expect to see it any time soon (unless some hot shot programmer out there takes it on)

QUOTE]

I'm considering a 890 or 1880 but right now I do a small amount of swapping tracks from PC to VS and back which is easy on the 840 and 880 machines and I don't want to lose that functionality.

Can you convert songs from 840/880VX format to 890/1680/1880? If so why not use the br8 to wav conveter program on any .wavs you want to get back in you VS890/1680/1880 etc, convert them to a blank 840 or 880vx formatted song and then import and convert your tracks to the format of the bigger unit? Probably be Limited to MT1 or maybe MAS mode but that would work for me.

I have no way to test this but what do you think?


bear
(Planeteer)
01/07/07 07:04 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

@jimmyrock - interesting idea... I downloaded the br8towav program but it does not even allow me to do anything unless it sees a valid BR8 backup medium attached to the computer......

So I think you need the br8 machine to format a zip or something before it can be used.

Also I am not sure about import options in the 1680. I know it can bring in 880EX stuff, but am unsure about 880vx or 840 stuff...


HookAdministrator
(Planeteer)
01/08/07 03:43 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

The BR8 converter won't work with VS Backup CDs, and it won't work with external SCSI hard drives. It appears only to work with external SCSI ZIP or JAZ drives. Perhaps something to do with the file format of VS files on ZIP/JAZ compared to a hard drive.


The 1680 should be able to import VS-880 and VS-880EX backups, as well as 840 backups. It's on page 239 of the manual.


jimmyrock
(Planeteer)
01/08/07 04:57 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

I know I can save 840/880 songs to a usb flash drive and use the br8 tool but it will only be read if thats the only material on the drive. If there are other file types i get the "not br8 medium" failure. Pretty sure its the same with a regualr cd but I'd have tio check again becasue its been a while.

The 1880 manual seems to indicate if the 840/880 song is saved in PLAYABLE mode which is how I save it currently to CF on the 840 and zip/jazz for the 880 (as opoposed to ARCHIVE mode) then you should be able to just import that song in the 1880.

My thinking was if to just save a blank MT1 formatted 840 or 880 song on my pc, copy the blank song to a flash/jump drive, BR8 convert the wavs to that song on the flash drive, then burn to cd and import to 1880 from that cd.

Still sound possible or worthwhile?


bear
(Planeteer)
01/08/07 05:40 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Might work, again I can do nothing with it, because I have no way to present the PC with a medium that the PC recognizes as coming from a BR8, so the BR8toWav program will not do a thing when I open it.....

Somebody send me a ZIP formatted on a BR8 and I might be able to do something with it....


jimmyrock
(Planeteer)
01/09/07 01:15 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Bear, do you need the zip disk or can I just e-mail the song files to you? If I copy the SONGxxx.vr8 folder, the SONGLIST.vr8 file and the SYSTEM.vr8 file to a jump drive I can use the BR8WAV converter on the template song so I don't think you need the formatted disk. I really just need to know if you can load that format into the vs890/1680/1880 machines or if there is a BACKUP type file required. The 1880 manual just mentions it needs to be saved in PLAYABLE format. I don't have a cd burner for backups for either my 840 or 880 so I don't know what that would look like.

This would only work for MT1 mode songs so maybe theres limited interest anyway. Let me know if you want me to send you the files.


randygo
(Planeteer)
01/09/07 01:39 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

>I really just need to know if you can load that
>format into the vs890/1680/1880 machines or if
>there is a BACKUP type file required.


The VS-1680/1880 can import songs from a VS-840.

Just the other day, I took a CF card I was using in my CF-converted VS-840 and imported a song from it into my VS-1680.

You should be able to import a VS-840 song using a SCSI ZIP drive connected to your VS-1880, or use a SCSI Microtech CF reader if you are working with CF.

Cheers,

Randy


jimmyrock
(Planeteer)
01/09/07 03:13 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Randygo, thats great thanks. I'd love to get rid of my zip and jazz drives do you think you could load an 840 formatted song from cd into your 1680? I know the br8converter recognizes a cd as a viable medium if there is only the 840 song info on it. If not at least I know I can move wavs from the pc onto the bigger VS machines with a zip or jazz and if I ever get rid of my 840 or 880 I'd just need to save a copy of a blank 840/880 song to use as a template for future transfers....

bear
(Planeteer)
01/09/07 03:53 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

I am more interested in this technique to "fool" the system into allowing me to move .wavs into the 1680 through my zip drive.

But how do I make the br8towav program work? I think I need a zip that has been formatted on the BR8 (or 840?).

Then could I move a .wav into the zip drive and then import into my 1680?


jimmyrock
(Planeteer)
01/09/07 11:59 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

"But how do I make the br8towav program work? I think I need a zip that has been formatted on the BR8 (or 840?)."

I can e-mail you the blank 840 song I made last night. You can copy those song files, SONGxxx.vr8 folder, the SONGLIST.vr8 file and the SYSTEM.vr8 file to a zip/jazz drive, jump drive or even a cd and you can use the BR8 converter. As long as those are the only three things on the disk/cd/drive the BR8 program recognizes it as a viable medium.


bear
(Planeteer)
01/09/07 04:01 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

@Jimmyrock - sure, please do send to me, and I will try it...


zipping them up and putting on easy share would probably work the best. My email is flakey with attachments...

http://www.easy-share.com/


jimmyrock
(Planeteer)
01/10/07 01:57 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Ok, lets see if this works, its a vs-880VX blank song in MT1 mode XFERsong ...save the system.vr8 and songlist.vr8 files directly to your zip and then you need to create a folder called SONG0001.VR8 on the zip and save the rest of the files to that folder...there are two system.vr8 files created so I had to rename one of the system.vr8 files to system_old.vr8 to send it not sure if that matters...I tested the files on a cd and 1 gig flash drive so should work for you..

bear
(Planeteer)
01/10/07 02:42 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

@JimmyRock - hehheh, yes the zip is now recognized by the BR82WAV program....

I will see if I can successfully import into 1680 and report back....

Disapointing to realize that it will only work in MT1 mode, but hey it is a start.....


altis
(Space Cadet)
07/13/09 08:38 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Sorry for the big bump but, hey, Google's working well.

Roland already have a conversion utility available for download. It's a bit clumsy but it works.

Search for Roland ARE-3000.


bear
(Planeteer)
07/13/09 09:57 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

I looked at are-3000 several years ago and never found a way to do anything useful with it with a VS machine. It is made for a AR3000 which is some kind of goofy PA annuciator that uses memory cards for pre-recorded announcements in train stations etc.

If you know of a way to make it do something useful, do tell.

I have the program - if anyone wants to look at it PM me and I will email it to you...


uptildawn
(Planeteer)
07/14/09 01:42 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

If YOU don't know what good to do with it bear, I certainly wouldn't assume to. \:\)

altis
(Space Cadet)
07/14/09 09:37 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

For very little money I bought an AR-200 (cut down AR-3000) which I'm now using to transcribe our vinyl collection to CD. It saves PHR files to Compact Flash using one of the RDAC codecs. I put this in my PC and then use ARE-3000 to convert them to WAVs and thence to CD.

Maybe your VS machines use a different file structure around the samples (or perhaps you haven't found Edit > File Convert ;\) )

Using the linear RDAC encoding, the PHR files appear to have a 16-byte header followed by pairs of 16-bit samples and no footer.

For example:
52 41 68 50 73 72 04 00 00 01 51 00 92 67 00 00
42 ff 97 fe 41 ff 9a fe 3d ff 9c fe 3c ff 9c fe
3c ff a0 fe 3d ff a1 fe 34 ff ac fe 30 ff a9 fe
...
Total size: 341,435,536 bytes

And:
52 41 68 50 73 72 04 00 00 01 3b 00 47 96 00 00
27 00 1c ff 23 00 26 ff 29 00 23 ff 2c 00 25 ff
1b 00 28 ff 23 00 24 ff 22 00 2c ff 24 00 29 ff
...
Total size: 499,852,192 bytes

And:
52 41 68 50 73 72 04 00 00 01 2b 00 e9 c5 00 00
97 02 fa fa 8c 02 f1 fa 83 02 fe fa 86 02 fb fa
77 02 04 fb 80 02 f8 fa 7e 02 00 fb 85 02 10 fb
...
Total size: 367,195,296 bytes

And:
52 41 68 50 73 72 04 00 00 01 2b 00 04 f3 00 00
74 01 f8 fd 74 01 fb fd 66 01 fb fd 6b 01 16 fe
6c 01 06 fe 70 01 04 fe 67 01 0a fe 64 01 00 fe
...
Total size: 368,673,312 bytes


bear
(Planeteer)
07/14/09 10:27 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Just to make sure I remembered correctly I pulled up the ARE-3000 program from my archives...

At the risk of repeating myself

"If you know of a way to make it do something useful, do tell."

The phr files do not resemble VS files...

Vs files do not seem to convert...

I see no way to convert anything into anything that a VS machine could see...

I see no way to convert anything from a VS machine that a windows box could see.....

I am certainly happy to be proven wrong - show me how this helps with any VS machine...




altis
(Space Cadet)
07/14/09 11:11 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Okay, so now I know that PHR and VS files are different. That might explain why RDAC2WAV didn't work for me. At least anyone following my route will now know why and will also be able to find a solution.

And anyone willing to write a converter between VS and PHR (probably easier than VS to/from WAV) will have another solution for VS machines.


gonzo
(Loquacious Planeteer)
07/16/09 09:18 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

damn roland.

rmri
(Space Cadet)
09/30/13 12:03 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Hello guys,

Does anybody have a copy of this software and possibly the source files too?
All the download links seem to be dead \:\(
Thanks


keeppracticing
(Planeteer)
10/03/13 01:14 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

https://www.hightail.com/dl?phi_action=a...VQXA5eFhLd01UQw

Karsten Gorkow
(Space Cadet)
11/08/13 10:34 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

The hightail access is dead by now ... can I also have a copy`from someone? I'm interested mainly in the latest source code for the conversion

TreeDragon7
(Planeteer)
04/09/14 11:38 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Has anyone ever done an analysis of code and roland vs. pc wav compararing of results ?

maybe I missed a thread. I have a vs-1880 and having been using the conversion tools and reaper module with my music. Ive never noticed any loss of quality from mtp into the audible files converted to. however . . .

I am half deaf. So I trust the group's individuals ears on here better than my own.

please let me know what you think !


uptildawn
(Planeteer)
04/10/14 02:55 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

I believe that bear has mentioned numerous times that there is no difference (or should be no difference... I don't recall specifically).

I can also verify that I've never heard any difference, when played through the same monitoring system... If anything, my mixes have always improved after mixing those converted files on the pc. Of course, there's always the possibility that I don't know how to operate the Roland effects as well as I do the pc software I've grown accustomed to, even though I used the 1680 almost exclusively for ten years.


TreeDragon7
(Planeteer)
04/11/14 09:19 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

ive always wondered . say I use my roland vs-1880 as a mixer for stereo ( or possibly more ) output to my focusrite sound card and from there firewire to my pc reaper program. Am I losing any quality going through the VS ? or should I use the 4 input channels of my focusrite card itself ? I would have the gain on the vs all the way down , relying on my outboard mic pres for initial power. I just don't want to lose quality by having any units in the way un needed.

uptildawn
(Planeteer)
04/12/14 02:23 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Why would you want another layer of preamp/mixer between your outboard mic pres and your soundcard?


There's only two reasons I can think of that might make sense...

1- to use the 1880 as a submixer in order to simultaneously record more inputs at once than you have 1880 inputs, in which case you're committing multiple mics/lines to a single recorded track - much as you would have done in the days of very limited track counts onto tape. A compromise, in my opinion.

2- To gain access to the 1880 effects boards in order to pre-process live inputs with various effects and/or dynamic processing - in other words, committing live inputs to pre-recorded sound manipulations that would normally be done post-recording in today's pc recording world. Again, a compromise in my opinion... although I can also see where access to these effects could be desireable in some instances. But in those cases, I'd imagine putting the 1880 effects before the mic preamps, not in between the mic pres and soundcard.

In both cases, I can imagine other solutions to recording that would not involve the potentially undesireable effect of piling mixer, upon mixer, upon mixer...

Does this make sense to you? Sorry if I've missed the mark.

__



TreeDragon7
(Planeteer)
04/14/14 07:00 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

reason # 1 really. until I get a better mixer with 4 channel subgroup outs . my cards software is hard to mix with .

I cant get my card and vs to recognize each other through rca cable spdif.

I guess I am still holding some faith in the VS's sound quality as a stage in the audio


uptildawn
(Planeteer)
04/14/14 02:17 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

In my own computer setup, I use a set of mic preamps, running to an RME soundcard, then into SAWStudio (my equivalent to Reaper in your case).

1- I avoid submixing my live inputs as much as possible, adding more preamps and/or soundcard inputs as I find the need and the money to expand.

2- Therefore, I avoid using any kind of external mixing console whenever possible, elliminating the question of whether or not adding another layer of preamp (before the mic pres, or between them and the soundcard - in either case) will be of benefit, or harm.

3- I never use my soundcard's mixer for "mixing". I have one or two presets arranged for just a couple of input/output scenarios, mostly using just one of them, for monitoring purposes only.

4- I do my "mixing" in my recording software - as in your own case, being far easier to comprehend than that of my soundcard - but mostly because the mixing of a multi-track recording "should" be done in the recording software mixer, not the soundcard mixer.

5- The soundcard mixer "could" come into play in instances where I might be recording overdubs and need to monitor both recorded tracks and new live inputs at the same time... and I can see where you might require that functionality. However, I believe you should be able to set up Reaper to both record and monitor playback at the same time, without getting too crazy with your soundcard mixer settings... possibly a one-time setup and then forget about it. - In my case, I use SAW's mixer and routing capabilities to do that sort of job. -

_______

You evidently need to dig a bit deeper into whatever issue you're experiencing between the VS and your soundcard's spdif paths. If all is working properly and the digital paths are the same (2-channel spdif vs. optical ADAT, both on toslink-style optical connector jacks, for instance), then you "should" be able to achieve sync/lock.

Don't forget that the spdif will only work in 2-channel operation, which means it's not too great in a multi-channel scenario of more than 2 channels, requiring multiple passes of VS tracks to Reaper, for instance.

_____

Maybe the VS suites your needs for sound quality. That's fine. But I can't help but wonder that you're just making life more complicated than it need be, by trying to fit it into the setup.

Like I said before, I can see wanting to take advantage of the VS effects...

___


TreeDragon7
(Planeteer)
04/20/14 08:36 PM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

I used to have an rme card and cable that had to sell to a guy on ebay for 100.00 because I accindently left a 0 off on my price.

now I have a 4 in focusrite saffire that I still don't use to capacity.

I really want to keep tracking on my vs-1880 but get afraid I am missing something in the DAW age. amongst the talk of whether mtp is true 24 bit and lossless issues, I even almost considered
trying to replace all its opamps with betters at one time .

Once I get the files into my pc program , is there a way of improving the quality by expanding, compressing, eqing, . I mean besides the usual. Just trying to optimize what I work with . . .


uptildawn
(Planeteer)
04/21/14 01:07 AM
Re: RDAC to WAV Conversion Utility Available (Windows .EXE)

Ouch! on the RME sale! Too bad... but the buyer got a great deal, I'm sure.

In my opinion, recording in MTP mode on the 1880 is the way to go, regardless of what anybody else thinks of it... in my opinion. YMMV.

Once on the PC, quality is really just a matter of how artfully you can learn to use the tools you have available to utilize.
Filling up a PC with piles of plug-ins can only go so far... eventually I find it overwhelming to have endless variations of the same basic processing tools.

In general, I'd find a couple, or so, of each tool I find most useful - through trial and error - then uninstall, or hide the rest from my DAW, so that I'm not inclined to waste my day fretting over a load of choices and instead, just get to work making my tracks sound as good as they can when mixed.

Of course, there's always those times when tinkering is required...

Most of my routine today stems from the type of work I find myself doing the most... that is, recording, editing, shaping, mixing someone else's creation. Most of the time, that demands the most efficient use of my time and not so much experimenting. But I have to say that it's also teaching me to make the most of a few tools and really beginning to understand how they work and how I work with them. Every new job I take on teaches me more about how I can make my own creations shine.

That probably doesn't do much to answer your question...
__