(Loquacious Planeteer)

10/26/10 06:57 AM

spdif to usb adapter

Trying to connect a RME ADi-2 spdif to the USB or Firewire of a Reaper loaded PC ... any cheaper device around ??

$450 just a for a cable Yikes http://www.halidedesign.com/bridge/?gclid=CJq2yMb776QCFRxqgwod70Gz0g

(Planeteer)

10/26/10 04:16 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

That cable (and others devices like it)is only one-way, isn't it? (from pc out to dac)
Wouldn't you want input as well?

Or am I completely off base here?..... not like that has ever happened before. $\:\)$

Appears to be lots of options online. Here's one: http://www.hagtech.com/hagusb.html

another: http://www.audiophileproducts.com/usb-to-spdif

These are well under the $450 price for that inline converter... probably not the same quality either, as might be expected.

I don't have much need for ultra-high-end stereo systems myself, so I'm going largely on what I've read about this stuff..... not that it wouldn't be nice to be able to afford to be that fussy.

Steer me in the right direction if I've gone wrong here.

(Loquacious Planeteer)

10/26/10 06:39 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Hey DT -- trying to go from our RME spdif to the PC .. is there a favorite card I should just install ? Most of the RME's now have USB, unfortunately......

(Loquacious Planeteer)

10/26/10 06:42 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Great info as always here ~!!

(Loquacious Planeteer)

10/26/10 06:43 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Most of the RME's now have USB, unfortunately......

(Planeteer)

10/26/10 07:01 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

That RME card is an extremely high quality AD card with SPDIF out. It would kind of defeat the purpose to get a cheap 16 bit 44.1 USB interface....

Actually I think it is time for you to get off your tight ass and buy a good PC interface - I suggest an RME multiface, or better yet a USB like

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FirefaceUC/

Come on dude, you have been meandering around for about 2 years talking about it, you do this recording gig for real, for real money. Time to crap or get off the pot.

Let a couple of moths out of your wallet and spring for something good.

BTW, that cable you listed above is a joke. Stay away from it.

(Planeteer)

10/26/10 08:21 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Yep - Just get a good interface that will handle all of your I/O IMO. The Fireface UC is a good unit - but I think C-Jo should be looking at something that can replace the 2480 and V-Fire/RPC setup he is using now IMO (16 I/O). The FF-UC might be able to squeak by if you add an ADAT AD/DA converter to it...

Like bear so eloquenty stated: Crap or get off the pot. You don't want to buy some gear now only to have to replace it when you want to retire your 2480...

(Planeteer)

10/26/10 10:02 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Sure - add a behringer ADA8000 for 8 more analog I/O - gives you 18 ins and 18 outs altogether - two super high quality from the RME ADI-2, 8 more very good quality from the RME, and 8 more pretty good from the behringer

I do not like behringer stuff much, except for two pieces - the ADA8000 and the headphone distribution amp - both of these have worked well for me.

The ADA8000 is certainly good enough for line level stuff.

Or sell the RME ADI-2 and get some other good MIC pre. You don't really need it.

(Planeteer)

10/26/10 10:05 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Hell,if I had your money, I would buy 2....

(Planeteer)

10/26/10 10:34 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

I'd agree on selling the ADI in lieu of other outboard gear (preamp, etc).

Lol - My "Money" comes courtesy of paitience (been collecting slowly for 15 or more years now) and a fat M/C debt $\:\($ Luckily I got a small inheretance when my Grandmother passed away recently and was able to get a nice chunk paid off - but it's still pretty scary to see my balance

DIY has also been very nice to me in terms of performance per dollar $;\)$

I'm not "big time" by any means! I just sacrafice other goodies (like a $100/mo Smart Phone bill, a new car payment, etc) for my Pro-Audio obsession. I'd love a new ride (driving a '99 Tacoma with 215,000 miles on it!) - but I'd prefer to spend cash on gear $\:\)$ It's a sickness - but one I can just barely manage if you overlook my M/C balance $;\)$ ...

(Loquacious Planeteer)

10/26/10 10:35 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

The Manley pre is still hi-quality, going to keep that one -- just bought the RME ADI-2 -- guess I could sell it & look into the gear your suggesting .........just don't want to make another purchase in the wrong direction ,,,,,will try to put the ADI-2 up for sale

thanks

(Planeteer)

10/26/10 10:44 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

You'll need a card - so either get a cheap SPDIF one - or save and get one that will eventually be able to replace your 2480 when the time comes $;\)$

Even if the MoBo had a SPDIF jack, the MoBo's onboard audio will generally have un-usable latency for any kind of realtime monitoring. This would work for mixing, but not for any kind of tracking...

Moving over to the PC slowly is what I did. Started by using the 2480 solo, then tried mastering the 2480's mixes in Wavelab, added a PC just to record/track on (used the 2480 for all monitoring and "live" effects) - then began using the PC's effects in tandem - then scrapped the 2480 altogether. Took me about 18 months to make the move - and I'm glad I did...

A $500 used RME Multiface and a DIY PC is what got me started in PC DAW ville - and it grew from there...

(Loquacious Planeteer)

10/26/10 11:15 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

I have the PC ... Reaper loaded (well tweaked by a noted Planeteer ) will slowly sell my RME /TC /Lexi/ Masterlink gear ... keep my Kurzweils > hopefully the Reaper works well with Midi Sync

(Planeteer)

10/26/10 11:59 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Sounds like a plan. Just don't paint yourself into a corner until you are 100% confident in your system's abilities and are comfortable with its operation. And make sure your first "PC Only" recordings aren't during an important session!!! Get plenty of practice recording yourself or friends before you bet the bank on an important session. Limp along with the half-and-half setup for as long as it takes to become 100% confident in your abiliaites to drive the system correctly.

I personally don't know much about MIDI and Reaper - so someone more knowledgeable than me (pretty much anyone!) will have to confirm that. $\:p$

(Planeteer)

10/27/10 12:11 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

I keep forgetting who's asking the questions when Joe asks what appears to be an innocent enough question about a particular interface. $\:\)$

Randyman and bear have known you a lot longer.... They seem to be able to get the the core issue quick!

I, too, got started on the PC with a single RME Multiface (with PCI card for the desktop pc) and began by transfering 8 tracks at a time in realtime from the 1680 into SawStudio daw.

Although I ended up abandoning the idea of using the 1680 as an input/output mixer/routing device early on, I did try it for just a bit.

It's just so much smoother, easier, cleaner, less of a headache to simply use a high quality PC interface like the RME stuff, hook monitoring needs directly to it and be done with it.

Personally, I like the Multiface breakout box because of its combination of analog I/O and digital I/O (via ADAT and spdif) and the PCI (or PCIe, or pcmcia for laptop) interface card... 8 analog, 8 adat and 2 spdif ins and outs, plus a pair of midi connectors and headphone preamp/line output.

A lot of folk like the PCI card-style units RME makes, where the cables connect directly to the card. And RME makes some rock-solid USB and Firewire units, complete with preamps too... like that 2-channel unit you got, Joe. But, you need many more than just 2 inputs and outputs to make it really work for you.

I still use the 1680 for some things and can always hook it up as a front end to the Multiface if I choose to.... but I just use whatever preamps I like/have on hand, really. I prefer 8-channel preamps for convenience and cost at this point, but I'll experiment with a couple really good 2-channel units at some point...

(Planeteer)

10/27/10 12:38 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

RME Rules. Used RME pwns all!

New Multiface + PCI = $1000. Used Multiface + PCI = $500 or even as low as $370 on eBay

. Same drivers, same stability, etc (the "New" Multiface-II's AD/DA's are slightly improved - that's about the only difference). Can't beat that with a bat!

I agree with uptildawn that using the VS as a "Front End" doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless your have a 2480 and RPC-1's or a V-Fire - assuming you aren't limited by it and don't mind sticking with Windows XP (RPC/V-Fire driver issues over in W7 land).

If you find the 2480 is limiting you in any way, then doing it all in the PC just makes sense to me (assuming you have a modern PC that plays well as a DAW) - but you will have to get the I/O you need happening on the PC. Using the 2480 as a fader control surface is a possibility and is still basicaly an "All PC Setup" with a physical MIDI control surface.

So C-jo - you are worried about Reaper and MIDI. I thought the 2480 didn't do any kind of MIDI sequencing or recording - so how are you currently sync'ing your keyboard sequences to your 2480's live audio? I guess you build you sequences while slaved to the 2480's MTC after the band records their tracks? And then the keyboards just "play along" using the 2480 as a time reference (otherwords - no actual MIDI recording is done anywhere but inside the Keyboards - correct?). I'd assume that will be fairly easy to get done in Reaper - but again I'm a MIDI dunce $\:\)$

The MIDI complexity comes when you are trying to run tons of software synths (VSTi's) and do a bunch of MIDI sequencing inside the PC. You can basically work the way you do now with Reaper (all sequences play from your keyboards and spit out Analog Audio to your soundcard), and then slowly start figuring out how to take advantage of the PC's VSTi's and insane MIDI editing capabilities as you learn your system.

I know I'd be freaked out if I had to learn how to run a PC DAW for a full band's worth of Analog I/O & monitoring plus have to learn PC MIDI/VSTi all at the same time! Take them one at a time - and you will liekly feel less intimidated as the MIDI part of your setup won't really change until you need it to. Once you are comfortable with the analog I/O setups and tracking/mixing/monitoring on the PC, the MIDI stuff should be a LOT easier to comprehend...

(Loquacious Planeteer)

10/27/10 01:31 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Thanks guys -- I will sell our RME ( we just purchased ) and search for a FIrewire version .

We sync the Kurzweils sequencers to the VS >> the 16 channels of the keyboards analog are never recorded to the VS.

SO we have a full 24 channels of just vocals/guitars & 16 ch of keys/drums/strings/etc & 8 channels of Lexi/TC electronics ALL at mixdown to a Masterlink

Any reason that PCI version is better than a straight Firewire :: on the RME ??

(Planeteer)

10/27/10 01:50 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

I prefer PCI as it has literally never let me down. Firewire can be a good deal more finicky as the PC's chipsets need to be compatible with the interface, etc (generally look for Texas Instruments or "TI" Firewire chips in the PC for the best chance of success).

Also, the RME Multiface/Digiface have been around for quite a while now - and are still sold new. So driver support is stellar, and you can buy used ones for 50% or less than the cost of a new one (ALL of my RME gear was purchased used for incredible savings!!!). The RME Firewire and USB interfaces are relatively new by comparison, and have retained their resale much better than the somewhat misunderstood Multiface/Digiface PCI/PCIe setups. Like I mentioned I saw a Multiface with PCI card sell for like $370 last year!!!

You could get a used RME Digiface for approx $500 which is a 26 I/O box (3 banks of ADAT I/O plus SPDIF I/O) and has 2 banks of MIDI I/O - but you'd need your own ADAT AD/DA's. As bear mentioned above - you can start off with cheaper Behringer ADA8000's for like $200/ea (8 Mic Ins, 8 Line Outs) and hang onto your ADI2 as a better interface for your DVC until you get better converters (the ADA8000's might work fine for you - likely as good as the 2480's preamps and AD/DA's).

A Multiface with a single ADA8000 would also be a nice option for around $700 for both units (16 I/O's plus a SPDIF I/O and an analog Headphone Output). You'd have 8 Mic inputs from the ADA8000 and 8 Line inputs on the Multiface - plus your ADI-2's extra 2 I/O's. The Multiface only has a single MIDI I/O (but still 16 channels).

The cool thing about the PC DAW is as long as your MIDI keyboards are sync'd to the Audio, you can always keep "re-recording" the Analog Keyboards into the PC DAW. The PC DAW WON'T have the 24-track playback limitation the 2480 has now! I was initially thinking that you'd need 24 inputs, but 16 is probably plenty. Record your live audio tracks (upto 16 at once - upto as many total as you need 32, 64 - whatever). Then record your Keyboards' Audio (upto 16 channels at once - upto as many total tracks as you need). And then you can use your external effects if you want to for mixdown (upto 16 at once - upto as many as you need).

You can have every single sound on a separate track if needed. Then you can take that PC DAW project and mix it wherever you want to since all of the Keyboard's sounds will be recorded as Audio inside the project (you don't need to have the keyboards hooked up to mixdown).

You'll eventually want to get into using the PC's VSTi sound modules and internal MIDI Sequencing as that is a strong point for PC DAW's - you might still use your analog keyboards for certain sounds - but I'd bet you'll be doing most of your MIDI programming in the PC before you know it! $\:D$

(Loquacious Planeteer)

10/27/10 02:07 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

READY !@@ Finally ~! Any reason that a PCI version is better than a straight Firewire :: on the RME ?? Latency problems plague one more readily -- smoother interfacing with Reaper >

(Planeteer)

10/27/10 02:42 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Se my first 2 paragraphs above $;\)$

Beyond that, PCI will generally have better latency (not much, but Firewire does add some latency of its own compared to a PCI bus). You probably wouldn't notice the latency difference to be honest.

Reaper won't care what interface you use - but your PC very well might. Again - Firewire can be finicky - but as long as you have a TI Firewire Chip in your PC, you have a pretty good chance of getting it to work. Once the PC is happy with the Firewire interface, Reaper will gladly use it w/o issues.

The resale value was my primary motivator (cheap = good!) - and I don't even think the RME Firewire devices were out when I snapped up my first used Multiface $;\)$ I've been 100% PCI since my PC DAW beginnings and I wouldn't change that for any reason - but that's me. Even today - my modern i7 PC DAW runs a RME PCI MADI card (bought used for a measely $500 - it still sells new for $1499!!!!!!!!!)

(Loquacious Planeteer)

10/27/10 03:07 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Thanks again RANDYMAN -- I have a old Dell Tower /XP -- has a a multitude of USB FIREWIRE --- so hopefully will work fine

Bare bones --except for Reaper

(Planeteer)

10/27/10 03:16 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

"old Dell/XP" = probably a Pentium 4 or Pentium D. Not a good choice for your first PC DAW IMNSHO $\:\($

I'd be looking at a Core-2-Duo MINIMUM (4 or 5 years old now) or better yet an i5 or i7 system. Starting off with a dinosaur will likely leave a bad taste in your mouth. Why drop all of this cash on your PC's I/O but then have a box that will heavily cripple your capabilities?

I might consider staying on the 2480 if that was my only PC option - but you CAN make a PC DAW out of it - just not a very powerful one by today's standards (and how reliable will it be considering its age?)...

For "Audio only" and some effects - it would probably work fine as long as the keyboards are handling all of the MIDI sound generation (you probably won't get many VSTi's running on that system w/o choking).

(Loquacious Planeteer)

10/27/10 03:37 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

AMD Athlon� 64 processor 3700+
* 2.2 GHz
* 2000 MHz FSB
* 1 MB L2 cache
* 2 gb ram
C51G chipset

will be using the keyboards MIDI and audio --

the PC is stripped -- bare min WIN < nada software or internet

A new PC is only about $500, though >>

So use to the speed of the VS -- remember I still have a cassette in my car $\:\)$

(Planeteer)

10/27/10 04:36 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

That chip was released in 2004 (over 6 years old now - or approx 4 iterations of Moore's Law!), and only supports SSE2

I believe Reaper et all would make more efficient use of SSE3 and SSE4 on newer CPU's.

It will likely run as a minimal PC DAW, but don't expect it to match a current PC (or even an aging Core-2-Duo). My entry into full-fledged PC DAW's was with a 3.2GHz Pentium-4 that I overclocked to 4GHz - and I quickly outgrew it's power limitations.

It's not so much the "speed" of doing things like burning CD's and backing up your data that will be affected (which the 2480 is a dog at) - but track count, the amount of VST Plug-In effects you can run at once (as in YOUR MIX), and low-latency capabilities will all be limited if you want to use CPU hungry effects in realtime w/o having to "print" the effects to free up CPU Power (that's part of the fun of a PC DAW - never having to "Bounce/Print" to free up effects - all effects can be "realtime" on a powerful PC DAW).

You can certainly pick up a newer PC for $500-$800 - but then you are practically doubling your initial soundcard budget. Maybe a used Q6600 Core-2-Quad box would be a more affordable option for $300 or so?

Tough call - but the 2480 will need to be replaced at some point (won't last forever)...

(Loquacious Planeteer)

10/27/10 05:05 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

My first PC was with 5 1/4 floppies > early 80's -- just not up on latest machines >> not sure what SSE2 represents ? I was hoping Reaper was not too taxing on the computer and pretty much only have one software up & running.....

(Planeteer)

10/27/10 05:28 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

The application itself isn't what "taxes" the system - it is mainly the VST Plug-In Effects and VSTi Instruments that demand lots of CPU power (these 2 items are a primary reason to use a PC-DAW in the first place IMO).

If you simply want to record audio, add a little EQ, Compression, and effects (basically exactly what you do in the 2480 now) - you will likely be fine. If you want to run tons of CPU hungry VST Plug-ins that "model" tasty analog compressors and such (like running a bunch of 2480 VS8F3 UA Compressors at once), that PC won't get you very far (you'll be bouncing tracks to free up effects like you have to in the 2480 now).

SSE is an instruction set - the newer revisions are much more efficient "per clock cycle" - meaning one "Hz" (of the CPU's GHz) will get more work done with SSE4 than with SSE2. In layman's terms: SSE4 will allow you to run more crap in a PC DAW $\:\)$

It just depends on what your plans are with regard to mixing and your desired VST effects capabilities.

(Loquacious Planeteer)

10/27/10 05:50 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

I rarely used the cards in the VS -- I had external TC/ Lexi effects via the RBUS ... like the knobs and just a few presets > did not use the mouse much with the VS, either ....maybe too old school for this new technology $\:\/$ read that the Reaper Plugins were gentle on the system

(Planeteer)

10/28/10 04:51 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Gee! Sorry I missed out on all the fun!

I'd just like to add a couple points from my perspective.

1- PCI (and PCIe) have been rock solid for me since getting into pc recording in 2001. The only "actual" Firewire experience I've had is with M-Audio FW410 (basically 4ch in/6ch out)... where the firewire drivers (the all-important factor for reliability) had a habit of dropping off the face of the earth until M-Audio released about three recent updates in the last year or so. The PC's (14 of them) have been pretty stable ever since.

I have not experienced how large live input counts run with Firewire interfaces, but everything I read about them leads me to believe that there can be problems that one does not usually experience with PCI/PCIe interfaces... an exception possibly being RME products, which appear to have good stability in almost every case, from PCI, to USB, to FW.... but, again, no personal hands-on experience with high input counts on FW and USB.

2- I still rely heavily on the original turnkey PC tower built for me in 2003.... PIV/2G/XPpro/1.5GB RAM... not overclocked. I've not used this machine for heavy input counts (nothing over 16 at once), but routinely playback/edit/mix track counts of 24-40 audio channels. This machine uses three Multiface PCI units for 24 analog inputs/outputs, 3 ADAT inputs/outputs and three pairs of spdif I/O.

I use three Presonus M80, 8-channel analog mic pres as a general rule (having re-purposed two of them from the remote rig after switching to the Digiface breakout boxes a few years back). I sometimes tap in a 2-channel Aphex 1100 tube mic pre. The 1680 goes through one of the Presonus M80's when I need it.

I also generally record at 44.1k/24 bit, which also helps keep the engine from panting with over exertion, but often have the need to edit/mix 96k/24 bit sessions of 20-32 channels, which the PIV begins to huff and puff over.

3- I also continue to exclusively use a remote rig (set up by the same tech friend) made only four months after the tower..... It's also a PIV/2.4G/XPpro/2GB RAM machine built into a lunchbox case. It's been a workhorse for me these past seven years... typically recording from 16-40 channels of audio at once through a pair of RME Digiface/PCI interfaces (three ADAT I/O on each unit, plus spdif) to get 48 channels of live audio at once.

The Digifaces are fed by a rack of Presonus Digimax 48k and 96k, 8-channel pres, plus one ADA 8000, mostly for routing the RME Digiface boxes to single output pairs for monitoring and live two-track feeds.

I mention these machines to illustrate the effectiveness and usefulness of even "antiquated" boxes like the 2G and 2.4G Intel PIV board/cpu. If I had the means, I'm sure I would not refuse to upgrade to more recent dual core systems, but these work great for me still.

Of course, if large amounts of RAM and other system resources are likely to be required for MIDI/VST/VSTi, etc. then I would really consider getting into a more up to date PC as Randyman suggests.

If audio channels is what is mainly required, then I personally don't see a reason to go crazy over whether or not you're using an older PC. The trick, I think, lies in how well the system is tuned and maintained, plus the amount and reliability of the RAM, a powerful enough power supply (400 watts or better, I'd say), how well the chosen video/graphics card plays with the audio system (very important!) and last but not least... how well the chosen audio interface and its associated driver files work with the PC.

It can take a bit of time to get everything humming at top speed, especially if it's pieced together from odds and ends, but it can certainly be done... just be prepared to use patience when/if things get rough while eeking it all out.

The software DAW has a lot less to do with the stability of the running system than some people think.... I think. Especially where Reaper comes into play. I' don't claim to know details at all, but it is my understanding that Reaper and SAWStudio (which I mainly use) have much in common in terms of how they work with the PC... and that being that they don't put as heavy a load on the system, themselves, as some other DAWs do. Please, don't take my word for it, or slam me for it if I'm wrong..... Just tell me where I'm wrong and I'll stand corrected. $\:\)$

(Loquacious Planeteer)

10/28/10 07:00 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

WOW thanks so much DT ~!! Great info

It can take a bit of time to get everything humming at top speed, especially if it's pieced together from odds and ends, but it can certainly be done... just be prepared to use patience when/if things get rough while eeking it all out

the part I don't look forward to -- sounds a little precarious to just jump ship ..... will find someone to "set" it all up and guaranteed to be runnin'

will never record 16 channels at time -- mainly two channels and the MIDI of the Kurzweil machines....

For live stuff we will use the VS with its multi channel ease

Sure our older PC will work .. Intel/XP is really solid and a affordable box these days

thanks again for all your research

(Planeteer)

10/28/10 01:40 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Just a note to urge you to think about....

Whatever you think you'll need/want.... make sure to double that in actual purchase/modification.... more than double works even better.

I've seen the results of a "minimum requirements" purchase more than once.... It always ends up a headache as you chase your tail attempting to make up for the shortcomings of the system in places you didn't consider.

Even for two-channel expectations, you know you'll end up wishing you'd planned for more at some point. And with the jump to PC recording/editing/mixing, you're bound to find yourself wishing for more sooner rather than later as you get used to working in that environment.

Not suggesting that you shouldn't use an older pc....

Just don't do silly things, like say, "Oh, I only need 256MB of RAM to run this software daw, so there's no need to upgrade my RAM to the max. the system will be capable of using."

That kind of nonsense will leave you wishing you'd never switched to the pc..... It's not the pc's fault. $\:\)$

(Loquacious Planeteer)

10/28/10 05:01 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

I know XP has the 4 gig ram limitation --- so I always keep that max in all my machines. This particular machine has only Reaper installed and the minimum WIN components...the Kurzweils will run most the instrumentation ...

I think anything will be faster than the Roland VS

(Planeteer)

10/29/10 02:37 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

No doubt...... even my poor little 900Meg Athlon..... well, maybe not when it had Windows ME on it. $\:\)$

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/01/10 01:21 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Is the Tascam 1884 "talk" well with Reaper ?? At least I would have faders for post control ~!

(Planeteer)

11/01/10 02:19 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

As long as your PC is happy with it - Reaper will be happy with it. Getting the PC all happy is primary and can be finniky with Firewire...

Your RPC-1 or V-Fire (I forget which one you already have) will basically give you that same functionality with your 2480 - right?

(granted, you'll have W7/Vista driver issues - but I think you are set on XP - correct?)

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/01/10 02:32 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Hey RANDYMAN -- never did buy a interface for VS --- kept hearing of new-improved ones around the corner....

Think I may have to bypass the VS completely -- was hoping to use the 1884 to control with faders and I/O

Have been reading about finky problems with working in PC/MAC -- no wonder the VS was/is a great machine --- can't believe many out in the market > put up with this today == it's like you have to approach the computer~music world with a degree in Engineering Tech... or be younger than 50 $\:D$

Just want to play/record music

(Planeteer)

11/01/10 02:38 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Yep - A Computer based studio does have a prerequisite of knowing the basics of computers and digital audio $\:\($ . There's really no way around that part (well - some will say "Get a Mac" - but if you're smart I'm sure you've already searched Google and found the Mac hype to be B.S. $\:p$ ).

There's always RADAR and an Analog Console - as close to Console + Tape as you can get in the digital age - but make sure you are sitting down when you see how much a RADAR plus a nice analog console wold cost

PC DAW's are literally DIRT CHEAP by comparison - thus the push to dive in and learn the cost-effective chaos of Computer DAW-ville $\:\)$

Do you know anyone in your area with a Computer based studio? COuld you chat with them and maybe sit in on a few sessions to see what their workflows are like? It might put your head at ease - or it might scare you away altogether - better to find out now than after you've purchased your new PC DAW gear!!!

I literally never so much as sent an email in 1998 - I was building my own screaming fast PC DAW's by 2003! So I know you CAN do it - but you have to actually start somewhere sometime (like right HERE right NOW!)...

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/01/10 08:09 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Have a neighbor with Logic Pro /Ensemble / 30in screen -- hasn't gotten too far in a year -- wants me to read the books and figure it out ....

Have someone in tomorrow with PT LE :: will watch him work a little. Sounds like the main problem is ~~ getting everything to sync correctly. Drivers /interfaces / midi/ etc.

Will continue to research and try connecting the Reaper-PC with the proper gear...

(Planeteer)

11/02/10 12:00 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Just bought me a second RME digiface (while you were waffling around) on ebay

With other stuff I have this gives me 32 ins and 32 outs rock solid into PC.... actually more if you count SPDIF also

(Planeteer)

11/02/10 12:37 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

You'll love running 2 Digifaces $\:\)$ I've since swapped to MADI and a single Totalmix instance for all 128 channels (HDSP MADI was only $500 used $\:D$ ) - but as long as you don't mind the 2 separate Totalmix windows for the 2 units you'll get a kick out if it! I was literally able to pop in the 2nd card - boot the PC and go. Nothing to change but adding/assigning more input channels in Nuendo. Just make sure the 2 boxes are sync'd tight or you'll have very strange issues (I prefer BNC) - and make sure the 2nd one has the current firmware loaded.

PS - How much was the used Digiface & PCI card if you don't mind me asking? One of the best deals in a pro-audio PCI soundcard IMNSHO $\:\)$

RME RULEZ! Used RME is just a no-brainier $\:p$

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/02/10 01:35 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

We ended up baking 10in reels of tape ...something not many of the digital folks do these days :-) 140* for 4 hours Ampex 456 >> songs from '86.....transferring to the ROland. Maybe glance at PT > later tonight.

(Planeteer)

11/02/10 02:05 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

+6db over 250 nanowebers and MRL calibration tapes, huh? $\:p$ I never had much face time with large format tape - but learned how to calibrate machines and such in College. I would HATE to have to calibrate the deck before every session!

(Planeteer)

11/02/10 03:07 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

$400 for digiface + PCI card Buy it now

BTW - multiface+PCI card - the one with the nuendo brand faceplate - is up right now for $375 Buy it now

I am tempted to pick it up too.... but I really don't need it. I have more I/O than I will ever use now.. If I ever hooked up all the ADAT to pres it would be just silly.

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/02/10 03:24 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Just bought the RME ADI -- guess I will have to sell that one first --

SHould I be looking for a RME HDSP Mulitface and just install via Fire

OR this one

and Reaper should "talk" fine with either one ?? I have Manley pre I will connect for vocals and our keyboards have 16 outs total...

(Planeteer)

11/02/10 04:25 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

That's a good deal on the Audiolink (It is a Multiface that was re-branded by Steinberg under the "Nuendo Audiolink" brand - but it's true RME hardware). I paid around $550 for mine many years ago...

These boxes ARE NOT Firewire - they use RME's PCI card to interface (similar to MOTU's PCI gear). They allow the breakout-box to be placed in the rack with the gear. So you get the benefits of a rack-mount USB/Firewire type interface with the stability/compatibility/latency benefits of a PC mounted PCI interface!

The Audiolink auction you linked to includes the PCI card - the other auction doesn't (the PCI card is $299 extra). As you can see a new Mujltiface+PCI is ~$1100 and the practically identical used one is $375 $;\)$

This will get you 8 Analog line ins and outs at +8/+4/-10 (selectable levels per channel), 8 Channels of ADAT I/O, and 2 channels of SPDIF Coax (or AES) with a MIDI I/O (16 channels).

It runs the latest drivers just like the $1100 new one - and can generally run happily at 32-Sample ASIO Buffer (ends up around 5ms Analog-to-Analog if you monitor through your DAW Software using VST effects etc, or around 2-3ms if using "dry" direct monitoring or RME's built-in mixer called Totalmix). Other words: The latency will be practically identical to the 2480's $\:\)$

Just beware that this is a few years old (probably 2003 or so) but I own 6 RME cards now - all bought used - and I had one failure. It was ironically the newest one of the bunch! Regardless, the ~$700 savings over a new one easily surpass my warranty concerns! You can buy a whole spare setup for less than the cost of a new one!!! (That's what I did - Backup gear is kind of important) to me)

You can go with this "Multiface/Audiolink" and get 8 built-in Analog I/O's, or you can get the Digiface (same concept) but it doesn't have any Analog I/O - but offers more I/O in the form of 3-Banks of ADAT I/O's. THat allows you to hook up three 8-Channel AD/DA's or whatever and get 24 channels of I/O. The Digiface will be in that same price range ($400-$500 used with PCI Card) - but you'll need to add your own ADAT AD/DA's or ADAT Mic Pre's to have any usable analog I/O...

A used RME Multiface is a no brainer compared to anything else "New" under $1000 or even $1500 or possibly even $2000. I'm a bit partial $\:p$

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/02/10 04:30 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

The Nuendo" sounds like the one -- just worried about plug & play on my XP -- don't do anything Adat any longer -- just need balanced XLR inputs for my dual pre and phone jacks for my keyboards

thanks again

(Planeteer)

11/02/10 04:36 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

That's why you'd add an ADAT AD/DA for 8 more channels of I/O. That would mean 16 Channels of Balanced Line Inputs and Outputs, plus a SPDIF/AES I/O for your ADI-2 for another 2 Channels of nice Analog I/O (that's 18 I/O). Or you can use the SPDIF/AES for your TC Gold Channel or whatever...

The Multiface has Balanced 1/4" TRS I/O - it will take any of your balanced gear just fine.

You'll be VERY hard pressed to surpass it's quality for less than $1500. So buy it for $375 - and then spend $500-$800 on a good used ADAT AD/DA converter (like the ADI-8 which comes up often in the $500-$600 range - sold for over $1000 new) and basically have a "$2500" system for less than a grand. That's how you get in on the cheap - relatively speaking...

A Digiface with 2 or 3 ADAT AD/DA's (24 analog I/O's plus SPDIF) is also a nice option.

The RME HDSP series LOVES Windows XP by the way $\:D$ It's also madly in love with W7 so you'll have a clear upgrade path.

As long as the PC has acceptable DPC performance you'll be as "plug and play" as you can get.

(Planeteer)

11/02/10 04:43 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

The $375 unit on ebay right now (NUENDO branded multiface) will plug right into your PC (PCI slot)and give you a breakout box to make audio connections out in the open (no crawling around behind the PC)

Without touching the ADAT you get 8 analog line level ins and 8 line level outs + a 16 channel midi interface + stereo SPDIF I/O. And a headphone out.

It will all work perfectly with reaper or sonar or cubase or just about any other DAW (NOT protools - you need protools hardware to make protools work).

It will be rock solid, with super low latency even on a PC that is not the fastest.

If you add a ADAT 8 channel interface - many ou there - you get 8 more ins and 8 more outs.

You can add a whole other multiface of digiface later (or 2 more for that matter) for a stupid number of I/O if you want.

Oh - and though the PCI card to breakout box is NOT firewire, it does use a normal firewire cable (easily available, no special connector) - I run one about 20 feet to the breakout box no problem.

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/02/10 04:46 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

AMD Athlon� 64 processor 3700+
*
C51G chipset

So the Nuendo card will snap right into our Mother --no problems ??

Will put our RME ADi up for sale tomorrow ---

thanks guys on our way ~!!

(Planeteer)

11/02/10 04:49 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

It's not the system specs we need to know - it's the SYSTEM's DPC performance that will make or break any PC DAW.

Run this and see what it says about your system's DPC performance:

http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml

You can run this one, too - but the other one one is a bit simpler to use:

http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

Run the first one real quick and get back to us...

LOL - looks like bear and I just missed each other a few posts up! $\:D$ $\:D$

(Planeteer)

11/02/10 04:52 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

The ADI unit is a beautiful piece of gear, but it is not what you need for getting into the computer. It is something you would add to a well equipped studio to interface to high end pres or other analog gear to get them into digital format, which would then be fed into your digital interface on the PC.

You need to get the digital interface going first though, and I think you will find even the analog ins on the multiface are good enough for most things.

Yes, that machine of yours will have PCI slots that the multiface will plug into no problem.

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/02/10 04:58 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Thanks BEAR/RANDY -- SO will grab the Nuendo and PCI card on Ebay and worry about selling the ADI this week. Wow ~~Many worlds away from the baking of tapes tonight, in my convection oven ...

1110000111010110010100101000110010011010
1000000110111010010001000000110101010100
1110101010011111111110011001110111101000
0110101100110111000010001100110101000001
1111100111111101101010001100111011001101
0001100101101010000111010011101111010010
1010110010001011110010001001100111000101
1100011110111001110001101010111000111100
1110000000100011011111100101110101001010
0011100110111101101101111001011110100010
0010100101101101010001111101001011000100
1000101110010011100111010001101101001010
1001101101100000100010111011010100010001
1100011110000011000110100011010010000110
0010011111000010010100000100111011100101
0010000100101101000001100011111010001001
1111100111111100111110010110100100000100
Don't Fear the Reaper...

(Planeteer)

11/02/10 05:01 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

You'll want to run that DPC Tester to make sure your "Old Dell XP" doesn't have DPC Issues. If it does - they can often be dealt with - but some systems just have anemic BIOS code or other inherent flaws that will basically prevent them from operating as an effective PC DAW...

Like bear said - the ADI-2 is fantastic - and you could certainly use it with the Multiface for your DVC or whatever - but I'd say sell it and buy an ADI-8 Pro instead ($500 used) so you'll have your required 16 Analog I/O's plus the SPDIF is open for the TC Gold Channel...

Exciting - Ain't it $\:p$

(Planeteer)

11/02/10 05:04 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

LOL! I see you speak "Bender"?

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/02/10 05:06 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Throw this in for good measure

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/02/10 05:08 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Originally Posted By: Randyman...

n for the TC Gold Channel...

We use TC effects -- but sold the Gold many years ago == now use the Manley DVC

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/02/10 05:10 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

The PC is not connected to the NET -- not sure the latency check will work with just a thumb drive transfer

(Planeteer)

11/02/10 05:12 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

That's the ADI-8 DD - which is different from the ADI-8 Pro or ADI-8 DS. The DD is a Digital Format Converter from ADAT to AES. That will indeed work for any AES gear you have - but will eat up your only ADAT port.

If I'm not mistaken, you need 16 Channels of Analog Inputs for your keyboards - correct?

The Multiface/Audiolink only has 8 Channels of Analog Inputs. You'll need to add an 8-Channel ADAT Analog Converter (AD/DA) in order to get your required 16 Analog Inputs.

If you want 24 inputs like you have in your 2480 (inputs at mixdown) - you'll need the RME Digiface + PCI, plus 2 ADAT AD/DA's, plus the ADI-8 DD you linked to to interface your AES-Equipped Effects Boxes.

So - ADI-8 Pro or ADI-8 DS is probably what you want $\:\)$

(Planeteer)

11/02/10 05:14 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Originally Posted By: C Jo Go*Crystal Studios*

The PC is not connected to the NET -- not sure the latency check will work with just a thumb drive transfer

It'll work just fine. If you get yellow and red bars then you have issues with the system that *might* be able to be resolved. If you have ANY red spikes at all - you'll need to address them before attempting to use the PC as a PC DAW...

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm kay then? $\:D$

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/02/10 05:24 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

I can run 8 channels at a pass -- So a 8 channel RME will be fine -- Was going to just MIDI my Kurzweil and record 8 channels at a time-- there may be drum samples in the Reaper setup already ( we have a rack Kurzweil just for percussion )

(Planeteer)

11/02/10 05:48 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

In that case - I might consider keeping the ADI-2 to have a "premium" ADC for your DVC. You can also use the ADI-2's superior DAC's for your monitor speakers! You're going to take a loss on selling it no matter ho you slice it - so maybe just keep it. That's another "plus" for buying used gear - if you decide to sell it, most of the depreciation has already happened $\:p$

Something to ponder. Since your outlay will only be $375 for the Multiface/Audiolink (that's an $1100 setup by itself!) you're still making out fairly well...

PS - I believe the ADI-2 and the Multiface can likely be rack-mounted side-by-side in 1RU. Pretty cool little 1RU setup $;\)$

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/04/10 03:45 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Damm missed the Nuendo ~!! Is the Tascam 1884 worth looking at ?? Seems to have plenty of I/O and I could use the faders for mixing ~! or the ALESIS ?

(Planeteer)

11/04/10 03:52 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Probably - again if the Firewire Audio Device is "happy" on your PC then any audio software will also be happy with it (minus Pro Tools).

You'll see plenty more RME boxes on eBay - just be patient $\:\)$ I lurk for months and months but only buy when something screams "GREAT DEAL HERE". Great deals will fall into your lap if you let them... So let them!

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/04/10 04:00 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

The Alesis is only $400 -- maybe I could check the Reaper forum > see if anyone has tried connecting --- SO there no real way to know if my PC will be happy with a particular interface :: until I connect ......

(Planeteer)

11/04/10 04:07 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Don't do it!!! Get a RME.

I am sure the TASCAM has worked on some systems, I am sure the Alesis has also

I have also heard of people having problems with them, and having to screw around.

You just don't or so rarely hear of anyone having trouble with a RME - they just work....

You don't need the grief - get a RME

(Planeteer)

11/04/10 04:08 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Pretty much. If you run the DPC tool I posted earlier that will at least let you know if the PC will work for audio AT ALL. If that DPC test is good (or if you fix your system so it ends up good) then you can move onto getting your interface to be stable. Firewire is (can be) finnicky. PCI not so much...

Then once your PC and Audio Interface are "going steady" $\:p$ - Any interface that supports ASIO (practically all audio interfaces) should work fine with any software that supports ASIO (everything but Pro-Tools and Logic). Of course - not all ASIO drivers are equal (RME is among the best of the best)

RME Multiface/Digiface w/PCI for $400 or less is a STUPID GOOD DEAL...

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/04/10 04:12 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

THANKS BEAR :: Your word rules -- THe ADI-2 we are using seems well built & definitely a great converter quality >> was using a SEK'D ADDA 2496, for years.

On to Ebay for a Nuendo '''' thanks again for the direction ~~

(Planeteer)

11/04/10 04:57 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Originally Posted By: C Jo Go*Crystal Studios*

THANKS BEAR :: Your word rules -- THe ADI-2 we are using seems well built & definitely a great converter quality >> was using a SEK'D ADDA 2496, for years.

On to Ebay for a Nuendo '''' thanks again for the direction ~~

You're not necessarily looking for the Nuendo branded stuff....... it's the Multiface/PCI card you're after.... RME is what's important in this configuration. An RME Multiface/PCI card for less than $450 is an awesome deal.

Not to knock the Nuendo branded stuff, but there was a point in time (when I first began investing in RME) that the Nuendo stuff was to be avoided because of a hardware issue...... a capacitor that was flakey on the PCI card... or was it a problem that was fixed by adding a cap?.... I don't remember now.. not so in the RME card (even though it's basically the same card). I know this for a fact from experience.

Not saying it WILL be a problem, but consider the possibility it could be a flakey card.... The biggest problem with the one I had was its tendency to not be recgonized when I booted up the system from time to time..... frustration more than anything else. I changed it out with a different card when I had the chance and no problems since then (still using the same one 6-7 years later).... Hell, I probably still have the flakey card if you want a cheap one... complete with after-the-fact soldered on cap. $\:\)$

I figured I'd mention this, seeing as how reluctant you are to get into the PC thing, only to have issues of any sort.... Don't want you to be dissatisfied with your decision because of flakey gear.

But, I don't know how frequently people had problems..... just that I was warned and then ended up with one..... That soured me on the Nuendo-branded cards.

(Planeteer)

11/04/10 05:33 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

The one RME Failure I had was one of my "newest" ones! I have (2) Nuendo Audiolinks, a Multiface, (2) Digifaces, and the HDSP MADI (all PCI). The Audiolinks are still running strong - it was a HDSP PCI 1.8 that bit the dust on me

But the points you mention are valid - and partially why I stressed the importance of having back-up gear somewhere in this thread $;\)$ When you can buy 2 COMPLETE setups for less than the cost of 1 new one - I think the warranty/failure concerns are more than surpassed by the shear savings $\:p$

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/04/10 05:36 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Just sounded good ?? My 2 channel RME was near $700 --- So will look for something newer ----definitely do not wish to have any problems with connectivity on the PC .... we have stayed off Windows because of all the threads we have witnessed > crying out. We want a smooth cross over ,,,,for sure.

(Planeteer)

11/04/10 05:42 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

All of my 5-6-7 year old RME cards are still working fine $;\)$

The RME will be one of the most trouble-free experiences one could hope for. Then there's the RME's killer ASIO drivers that blow most Firewire interfaces out of the water. Literally - more plug-ins, less latency, basically more power out of the same PC thanks to RME's efficient and stable ASIO drivers...

The Tascam, Presonus, Focusrite, and Alesis Firewire units will perform worse by comparison mainly due to their 3rd party (read that: incapable in-house programmers $;\)$ ) drivers. Presonus might be changing with their Studio One software development (drivers might improve and be written in-house) but writing an application is a little different from writing a driver...

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/04/10 05:49 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

RANDYMAN -- searching hi and low :: sold on the RME brand ~~! Thanks all > for someone leaving the VS > need all the directions available. First thing that would turn me off -- is issues with the PC....... had enough for the past years with technical brain scratches. Know some of your here, might enjoy tweaking Mac/Win conflicts ~~ spells no fun for me. Another Fine RME Choice >??

(Planeteer)

11/04/10 06:30 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Sounds good!

Quick tips for your XP Dell PC:

Start with a fresh installation of XP off the Microsoft XP Installation CD that came with your Dell. Do a fresh format and wipe the system clean (Backup your data first). Complete the clean XP Installation, and install XP Service Pack 3. Reboot.

Then install your chipset and video drivers. Reboot.

Set "Processor Scheduling" for Background Services. Then install your RME drivers and reboot.

Then you are good to install Reaper and any 3rd party VST/VSTi plug-ins. Configure Reaper to use the RME, and set up the inputs/outputs. Then record some music!

Once you're ready to knock this out we'll walk you through it - but you'll really need to run the DPC Latency Tester program I keep bugging you about to get a descent gauge on your system's PC DAW capabilities. You can do this anytime you have access to the XP Dell PC (run it from a USB Stick)...

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/04/10 06:38 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Hey Randy -- Bear installed XP and Reaper on this early PC -- all setup and ready to go

should I just grab this one -- just a different version of my ADI2 ~~ has the card versus spdif only

RME

(Planeteer)

11/04/10 06:44 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

That's not an ADI-2 - It's a newer Multiface-II - and a pretty good price. The MF-II has updated converters and a stronger Headphone output than the original Multiface (or Nuendo Audiolink). Both the original Multiface (Nuendo Audiolink) and the newer Multiface-II share the same exact capabilities (same 8 I/O - ADAT - SPDIF - MIDI - ASIO Drivers - Latency) - only the AD/DA chips and HP amps differ slightly.

The Nuendo Audiolink (Multiface) was $375. The one you just linked to is $645 - but "updated" and newer...

The price isn't bad at all - but I wouldn't say it was a "Steal". Your call.

Keep the XP Dell PC offline and you'll be set to go. Bear knows his shit! $\:D$

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/04/10 06:49 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Will look a little longer-- Danke

(Planeteer)

11/04/10 06:51 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

It's really not a bad deal. If you are worried about longevity/reliability I might nudge you towards it!

It's a matter of paying $250 more (give or take) for a slightly updated and newer version of the same box. I'm leaning towards "yes - buy it"

(Planeteer)

11/04/10 07:42 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

here is a multiface II for $100 cheaper

http://cgi.ebay.com/RME-Multiface-II-w-P...6#ht_500wt_1156

$549

Again a GOOD deal, not a SMOKING deal.

If you are willing to keep looking for a week or two you can probably find one for 50 or 75 less....

On the other hand - in the grand scheme of things - this is going to last you years, it is probably a matter of a couple of bucks a month over this time

(Planeteer)

11/04/10 02:04 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

If you consider, too, that at some point you may be adding more channels... getting one of these two units at slightly higher than the perfect "deal" now and finding a better deal down the road really makes either of these two sound pretty nice.

I'd always wanted to find out if there was any noticeable and better (to my ears) sound/capability between the early version and the II units. I like the addition of the physical headphone volume knob... comes in handy.

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/04/10 04:28 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Probably for another thread but :: Can I simply put a SCSI card in and drag songs over from my Brett HD system >> & then rip them to Reaper , at will ??

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/04/10 04:38 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Wish I would had inquired with everyone $\:\($ > before I purchased the ADI2 -- My vision was narrowed down to the VS ........

(Planeteer)

11/05/10 01:41 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Originally Posted By: C Jo Go*Crystal Studios*

Probably for another thread but :: Can I simply put a SCSI card in and drag songs over from my Brett HD system >> & then rip them to Reaper , at will ??

Sorry..... what's a Brett HD system?....

(Planeteer)

11/05/10 01:41 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Originally Posted By: C Jo Go*Crystal Studios*

Wish I would had inquired with everyone $\:\($ > before I purchased the ADI2 -- My vision was narrowed down to the VS ........

Your taste in products was great!

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/07/10 01:43 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Probably not a problem ..... but the cards installed, in my PC, look like they only have one groove ---- where most of the cards I see listed > have 2 or more grooves

(Planeteer)

11/07/10 03:05 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Oh - Socket 478! An oldie, but a goodie $\:\)$ I still have one P4 3.0GHz Socket-478 I use as a DOS HD Test Machine - and that's all $\:p$ (Spinrite, Seagate/WD diagnostic disks, iRecover, etc)

The White Slots on the pic you posted are indeed PCI slots and will work with any PCI cards. PCIe x1 is a different animal - but the Multiface and Audiolink are generally PCI - but they do have the PCIe x1 variants available...

The other "Grooves" you see on the RME pic are just spots w/o any contacts (looks like another "groove", but it's not).

You're really going to be limiting yourself with a Socket 478 PC DAW in the 21st century - so PLEASE just go into this knowing that fact. Don't get frustrated if the PC runs out of gas as you are dealing with what I would deem ancient PC Hardware by today's standards...

I think that is a VIA based MoBo - another "Strike" for a good DAW PC $\:\($ . Intel Chipsets are really what you want to see (845P/865P/875P and ICH5 or ICH5R from that era).

I don't see this initial PC DAW experience leaving a minty fresh feeling in your mouth IMNSHO...

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/07/10 03:20 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Was nothing like this > when I started recording in 69/70 -- not a lot of engineers sitting around worrying about their Socket 478's :[) Thanks to all for "holding my hands" through this futuristic adventure :

: when does it start being about the music :-)

(Planeteer)

11/07/10 03:36 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Originally Posted By: C Jo Go*Crystal Studios*

Was nothing like this > when I started recording in 69/70 -- not a lot of engineers sitting around worrying about their Socket 478's :[)

Nope - they were all worried about the new 16 Track VTR's, then the 24-Track VTR's, then the new Neve Console, a "Digital" reverb, etc $;\)$ A MUCH more expensive lust to say the least! We can get similar performance today from a $1000 PC, and $1000 of I/O...

I'll take my modern setup that I actually own anyday over some old antiquated gear that would have cost as much as a house (or two) and required daily maintenance $;\)$

All depends on how you look at it. My scenario would not be possible w/o a cheap & capable PC DAW.

(Planeteer)

11/07/10 04:14 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

I just feel compelled to add that in my own experience, a 3GHz P4 is plenty fast to do regular multi-track recording and editing. The via-based mb is another story... not to say it can't work, but an Intel would be better, no doubt.

You certainly won't get that "state of the art" thrill, but it isn't a bad start.

Of course, I don't do bunches of vsti's and loads of samples and stuff. But, I have no problem recording upwards of 40ch of live inputs at 24 bit/44.1k, using a P4 2.4GHz Intel with a pair of RME Digiface and PCI cards. I do most of my editing/mixing on an even more antiquated P4 2GHz Intel with three RME MultiFace/PCI.

Take it for what it's worth, but I wouldn't throw out the PC you've got... just maybe be cautioned that it may only be "sufficient" and not spine tingling.
But, I don't know all the details either, nor am I a PC expert... for what it's worth. $\:\)$

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/07/10 04:50 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Well someone threw out the PC > I acquired..... so a free machine to play with.

I figured it has to be as fast as the VS 2480. The Roland runs 40 channels easy > with comp/eq/effects on each channel.

My office/photoshop PC is a newer Intel --still has some problem multi-tasking .. > Of course, I am scanning film at over 100mb each & rendering AVI movies. Takes a little toll on the processor.

(Planeteer)

11/07/10 05:55 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

That motherboard is a ECS C51G-754 and uses a NVIDIA C51G northbridge and NVIDIA MCP51G southbridge.

Not VIA at all...

The biggest downside I see is it will only support up to 2G of RAM

Certainly that is something to do right away - max out the ram.

Have you run the DPCLAT test like Randyman keeps suggesting?

This no hotrod PC, but it should run basic Reaper just fine.

(Planeteer)

11/07/10 07:51 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

As long as "Basic" is as far as you want to go - I'll agree $\:\)$ But why go through the "pain" of switching platforms for little benefit? C-Jo is having a very rough time convincing himself that he will be able to run a PC DAW with any efficiency. So why make the switch unless the switch will be miles ahead of the 2480?

I couldn't even open one of my regular projects at the largest buffer settings (rendering it useless for tracking) on a P4 at 4GHz - much less at stock speeds!

Even my 3.6GHz Core-2-Duo ran out of gas a few years ago! Then, my projects themselves generally use more than 2GB of RAM (had to use the /3GB Switch in XP towards the end of my XP usage) - so that would be another show-stopper for me. This is w/o a single VSTi - only tons of bussing and lots of nifty VST Audio Plug-ins...

Try to run two Amplitubes or Guitar Rigs at High Quality and that P4 will be brought to its knees rather quickly $\:\($ I tried to setup an equivalent Celeron 2.8GHz w/2GB of RAM and an M-Audio 24/96 PCI to use as a standalone Amplitube box for my guitar player - and it couldn't handle his standard patches w/o popping and clicking like crazy (running Amplitube Standalone - and that's it! Tweaked out and offline as well). The DPC's were fine - it just couldn't handle the CPU load and low-latency demands of a realtime rig (was over 50% CPU with ONE VST running in STANDALONE mode!!!). I regularly run 4-6 Amplitubes in addition to a slew of other VST's and dozens of busses w/o breaking a sweat on the i7 $;\)$ Granted the 3GHz P4 will have a small leg up on a 2.8GHz Celeron - but not much compared to an i5/i7...

It just depends what kind of VST's and VSTi's you want to play with. I LOVE the colorful modeling VST's and lush reverbs that tend to use a good deal of native CPU power and eat up lots of RAM. If you simply want to re-create the 2480's straightforward "Digital" Compressors and EQ's w/o running any VSTi Soft-Synths in the PC - then that P4 will be "OK" - nothing beyond that. Basically a 2480 with more playback channels and easier backups. If you have a few VS8F3's I'd wager the 2480 is MORE POWERFUL than this PC for realtime audio processing!

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/07/10 08:20 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

I have used very little internal effects --- always reach for the externals --- but, I can see that will be way too expensive to connect with the PC system.

Also thought we would MIDI the dual Kurzweils for all our samples. Just run the 8 outputs, at a time, to our RME. We have never had enough channels to record to our ROland...this will be a welcoming advance.

(Planeteer)

11/07/10 08:27 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Yep - If all you want is basically a 48 Channel 2480 - then that P4 will do it. If you want to run killer VST Lexicon Reverbs, Amplitubes, VSTi's - I'd think twice...

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/07/10 08:27 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Originally Posted By: Randyman...

As long as "Basic" is as far as you want to go - I'll agree $\:\)$ But why go through the "pain" of switching platforms for little benefit? C-Jo is having a very rough time convincing himself that he will be able to run a PC DAW with any efficiency. So why make the switch unless the switch will be miles ahead of the 2480?

I couldn't even open one of my regular projects at the largest buffer settings (rendering it useless for tracking) on a P4 at 4GHz - much less at stock speeds!

Even my 3.6GHz Core-2-Duo ran out of gas a few years ago! Then, my projects themselves generally use more than 2GB of RAM (had to use the /3GB Switch in XP towards the end of my XP usage) - so that would be another show-stopper for me. This is w/o a single VSTi - only tons of bussing and lots of nifty VST Audio Plug-ins...

Try to run two Amplitubes or Guitar Rigs at High Quality and that P4 will be brought to its knees rather quickly $\:\($ I tried to setup an equivalent Celeron 2.8GHz w/2GB of RAM and an M-Audio 24/96 PCI to use as a standalone Amplitube box for my guitar player - and it couldn't handle his standard patches w/o popping and clicking like crazy (running Amplitube Standalone - and that's it! Tweaked out and offline as well). The DPC's were fine - it just couldn't handle the CPU load and low-latency demands of a realtime rig (was over 50% CPU with ONE VST running in STANDALONE mode!!!). I regularly run 4-6 Amplitubes in addition to a slew of other VST's and dozens of busses w/o breaking a sweat on the i7 $;\)$ Granted the 3GHz P4 will have a small leg up on a 2.8GHz Celeron - but not much compared to an i5/i7...

It just depends what kind of VST's and VSTi's you want to play with. I LOVE the colorful modeling VST's and lush reverbs that tend to use a good deal of native CPU power and eat up lots of RAM. If you simply want to re-create the 2480's straightforward "Digital" Compressors and EQ's w/o running any VSTi Soft-Synths in the PC - then that P4 will be "OK" - nothing beyond that. Basically a 2480 with more playback channels and easier backups. If you have a few VS8F3's I'd wager the 2480 is MORE POWERFUL than this PC for realtime audio processing!

Whoa -- really makes me ponder : this trade over to PC or give respect the 2480, even more.

Testing the latency on the PC today -- I have work on the ROland, until late spring with specific clients > so the move does not have to be immediate .

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/07/10 08:31 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Will the pre-loaded effects in Reaper work just fine ? We tend to do little tweaking >> have had the same 20 presets we used for years.

(Planeteer)

11/07/10 08:37 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

I don't know what kind of efffects come with Reaper - but they likely have a mix of "efficient" ones and more "Colorful" ones that might eat up more CPU.

If all you want is a 2480 type experience w/o any "analog flavor" - you'll be fine...

(Planeteer)

11/07/10 08:39 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

PS - Post your DPC Latency results once you run it. You can either do a "Print Screen" and paste into Paint and use Imageshack to upload the Pic, or simply tell us your highest DPC Spike reported on the DPC Latency Tester (run it for a few minutes straight and see how high the spikes are)...

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/07/10 09:18 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Remember this PC has nothing loaded -- only Reaper and the bare min for XP~WIN ... will have to do a visual to report....

thanks Randyman

(Planeteer)

11/07/10 09:21 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

He doesn't have a P4 - it is an ATHLON 64 3700+....

I personally don't have any experience with Athlons...but if you believe benchmarks, it seems to be equivalent to around a 3.6G P4

My first DAWs in the late 90's early 2000's were certainly less than that and they did fine... especially with a good interface like a RME which offloads much of the CPU load to the builtin FPGA in the interface.

I agree he is going to be somewhat limited on realtime VSTi's, but I haven't heard him say this is what he is after.

And - all in all - replacing a PC is pretty trivial and inexpensive these days - get a good audio/midi interface going, get a good video monitoring system going, get your feet wet and develop a work flow that does what you want. If you find yourself running into limitations of processing power, buy/build a new PC...

(Planeteer)

11/07/10 09:33 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

CJOGO - what I really want to say is - You are totally frustrating me. You are way over-thinking it.

It is a good thing to do a bit of research and planning, but at some point you just need to jump in and DO IT. I have posting answers to you on this stuff for about 2 years now.... you keep fiddling around, uh.. uh.. but... but.. someone told me this, but I heard this .. but what if the sky falls tomorrow... uh uh..

JUST DO IT!!! You are not going to get everything perfect the first try, mostly because you can't even know what works for you until you just DO IT...

If you get a good audio/midi interface, you really can't go wrong... you can always add and change stuff until it does everything you need. It is always an evolving learning process...

AT SOME POINT YOU CAN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU NEED UNTIL YOU JUST DO IT!!!

(Planeteer)

11/07/10 09:45 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Like Nike says $\:\)$

You'll need some time to get comfortable with the PC DAW - so why not just convert some of your old 2480 Projects to Wave Files using the converter program (VS-2-Wave) and practice setting up a Reaper project, importing Audio files, adding effects, and creating a final mixdown with pre-recorded tracks? You can even mess with getting MIDI Sync setup...

Then you can slowly integrate the PC DAW as a Tracking Device - and before you know it you'll be kicking! Don't try to dive in head first and hope for the best - do it systematically. That's how I slowly learned how to use my DAW applications - and I had the 2480 there as my "anchor"...

The only way to know if your Dell PC will work for your specific PC DAW needs is to start using it $\:\)$ It will likely be fine for your minimal DSP requirements. It wouldn't last 1 minute for my stringent DSP needs $;\)$

Shit or get off the pot already as bear says $\:\)$ You have to actually START or you'll never get to the end $;\)$

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/08/10 01:24 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Think how frustrating this can be for me.

It took this thread, just for me to realize, one could not just plug/play a spdif to a USB . Another thread to figure if a PCI card from a RME would even fit in the sockets of my PC ...

You have to take in consideration the lack of computer knowledge some may not have harnessed > even with something so simple to many here. There are numbers/names/ processors/ boards flying by on threads, and leaving me scratching my head.
I was going to buy 10 SCSI cards, just to hope one would fit thought I had one ~! .... way over-thinking because its humbling when this all sounds so foreign.

Sure I use a PC all day -- but, only to run a few pieces of software ( scanners and video editing ) ~~~ never take these beast apart.
SO, once again thanks : I am jumping in to this new world of engineering ..

(Planeteer)

11/08/10 03:17 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

So export some of your 2480 projects as Waves to CD-R and import the Wave files into Reaper. You'll need to learn Reaper sooner rather than later - so why not start now? Just use the PC's built-in audio for now (or even headphones). Then once you have all of your I/O and MIDI interfaces ready to go, you'll already have a handle on the software and how to navigate it...

Learning to navigate the software was the slowest part for me (I'm still not as fast as I'd like to be).

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/08/10 04:10 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Hey Randy >> just have to load up the /VSWaveExport\ and then read the tutorial

>> on how to deliver the single tracks to Reaper .. then arduously become one with Cockos

(Planeteer)

11/08/10 04:16 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Echo...echo..echo..echo.... $\:\)$

(Planeteer)

11/08/10 05:20 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

RE: C-Jo - Yep.

You don't even have to use the VS-2-Wave program ("VS Wave Export" is the actual name - I always forget it!) - you can export tracks to Wave Files on CD-R directly from the 2480 and its CD Burner. Then, pop the burned CD-R's into the PC and copy the Wave files you just copied over (tracks) into an empty folder on your PC. Then open Reaper and create a new Reaper Project, and import the Wave files (I think you can just "click & drag" the group of Wave files into the Reaper project if Reaper is anything like Cubase/Nuendo). If it asks, choose to import the files to separate tracks (don't know the exact import procedure with Reaper).

RE: uptildawn - Yep $;\)$

(Planeteer)

11/08/10 07:22 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

I am pretty sure I left your computer setup with the randygo dll already loaded in reaper - you should be able to open VS projects directly into reaper - either thru a SCSI card and your external harddrive, or by ripping a CD with CD2ROLAND - didn't I do that when I was out there?

You still need an audio interface, even if just for playback of mixes - you can use the builtin motherboard sound, but it would be better if you had a real interface.

Also you need a MIDI interface for hooking up your Kurweils - I really suggest you go ahead and get a RME Multiface...

No matter what else you end up doing, getting a new PC or whatever, it is going to do you good for a long time.

For a SCSI card for your PC get this one

http://cgi.ebay.com/ADAPTEC-AVA-2906-SCS...e#ht_500wt_1156

It has a 25 pin dB connector, so it will hook up to your song vault with the same cable that now hooks to the 2480 - just mount card in PCI slot in PC, unhook cable from 2480 and hook to AVA2906 card...

I even am pretty sure windows has builtin drivers for this card.
If it does ask for drivers they are easily downloadable from adaptec web site.

It is $20 buy it now - this is a good price, grab it quick.

(Planeteer)

11/08/10 02:27 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

second the 2906 card.
I also used to use a Belkin SlimSwitch just like these: http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=...-All-Categories
which allowed me to have the VS and PC hooked up to my external hard drive all the time. It has 25-pin dB connectors all the way around, too. It's useable for both serial and parallel devices, so no problem with the VS.

It required that I boot up the PC while the switch was pointing to the (already running) external drive if/when I thought I needed to use it... The PC SCSI port is not Plug and Play like USB is, so you must boot the PC with SCSI peripherals already turned on in order for the PC to recognize them.

The VS can do a Drive Select to scan for SCSI peripherals at any time, so no need to have it turned on at boot up if you don't want to.

As far as that goes, a reall handy app that I was turned on to a while back does the same thing for the PC side...
This works great and is not the least bit complicated to use.

Edit:
I tried finding the PC hardware scanning utility a while ago and could only find it here, through a message board link: http://www.csis.on.ca/setup/
Just scroll down the alphabetical list to find RescanHardware(dot)exe... It's a great little utility.

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/08/10 04:39 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Such a reverse of the mind -- spent last week baking 10in reels of tape and transferring 8-track work, from 1986.....

Ampex 456 is still 140* at 4 hours ---for those techie ones $;\)$ Worked like a charm -- the tapes would not budge direct from the box --- 5 hours later > flying on the Tascam ...

(Planeteer)

11/08/10 09:42 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

THAT is such a hassle!

I melted a reel once.......

Cleaning the gunk off the heads is always a thrill too.

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/09/10 02:14 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Our ADI-2 is up for sale --- moving to the multiface ~!

(Planeteer)

11/09/10 02:21 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

You'll probably make out about even (probably get around $400-$500 for the ADI-2).

So - Have you run the DPC Latency tester yet?

Have you attempted to import some 2480 files into Reaper?

Why not? $\:p$

You'll really want to get started little by little ASAP. Like NOW!!! We're very easy-going over 'yander, but you will have to put some effort forth before we hand-feed you the basics of Reaper and PC DAW's. It sounds like bear has already given you a PERSONAL tutorial on how to use the VS-Wave-Export application - so there's no excuse not to get cracking over there! NOW!!! $\:\)$

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/09/10 03:13 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Gonna snag one of those SlimSwithces

Merci

Was not able to get the ReScan app to load ??

(Planeteer)

11/09/10 03:56 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

ReScan is VERY simple..... You just unzip/extract the contents... A single folder with an html doc, which tells you what it is/does... and the .exe application. Make a shortcut to your desktop for easy access.

The only time it ever does anything is when you double-click (or right-click OPEN) on it. A splash screen comes up while it scans the hardware and then goes away when it's finished (a few seconds).

You need a scsi card on your PC for it to enable the scsi port, of course.

An example of when I use it... I have a Microtek SCSI scanner that I only use once in a while. Before opening Photoshop to scan something, I start up the scanner, let it start all the way, double-click Rescan... it scans the hardware ports (or whatever it does... I'm no expert) and then I open Photoshop and bring up the scanner application and go to town.

Without Rescan, I'd have to reboot the PC after turning on the scanner.

____________________

Come to think of it, I don't recall if I used it with the SlimSwitch and VS before.... Maybe I'll check that out tomorrow just to confirm that it works okay.

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/09/10 03:58 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

We have two more sessions -- will fire up the PC on Wednesday --- I do believe Bear did give me a quick tutorial on the Export app -- but, that was months ago. Hopefully when I see the program open ...it will come back to me $\:\)$

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/09/10 05:51 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

OH The faith thee have in me >>>>>>> from a man who still has cassettes in his car -- Floppy Disc keyboards -- DB suits -- tube TV & monitor $\:\)$

DOES the PCI-E signify laptop? RME MULTI

(Planeteer)

11/09/10 08:34 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

NO the PCIe will NOT work in your current computer. PCI is what you want. Yo would need a new computer to use PCIe.

It does not mean laptop - it is the newer motherboard port - the replacement to PCI.

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/09/10 05:04 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

The RME card did look different --- thanks BEAR. Off to Big SUr for sessions >> The producer loves the VS 2480 and the 16 direct faders ,,,,not a mouse guy. I will never convince him to move to PC ~ but, he's paying the bill.

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/09/10 05:08 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Originally Posted By: uptildawn

It required that I boot up the PC while the switch was pointing to the (already running) external drive if/when I thought I needed to use it... The PC SCSI port is not Plug and Play like USB is, so you must boot the PC with SCSI peripherals already turned on in order for the PC to recognize them.

.

Everything was SCSI in my early days --- I still turn all peripheral devices on first --just was so ingrained thanks DT

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/09/10 05:49 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Originally Posted By: uptildawn

ReScan is VERY simple..... You just unzip/extract the contents... A single folder with an html doc, which tells you what it is/does... and the .exe application. Make a shortcut to your desktop for easy access.

downloaded several times >> nothing there (300k)--the screen pops up -- but, maybe there needs to be a SCSI connected.
http://www.csis.on.ca/setup/RescanHardware.exe

My early scanners were all SCSI -- we now use a Minolta Pro DImage for 120 film and a Epson for 4X5 film --they are all USB these days and direct TWAIN to CS/PS

(Planeteer)

11/09/10 07:55 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Originally Posted By: C Jo Go*Crystal Studios*

...downloaded several times >> nothing there (300k)--the screen pops up -- but, maybe there needs to be a SCSI connected...

Yup.... very small footprint.... 312k here.
The app is probably working fine. You'll know once you have a scsi card and device hooked up.

(Planeteer)

11/09/10 08:11 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Just checked the SCSI/PC/ReScan with the CD Rack and IDE drive-in-a-scsi-case mod in the spare drive bay I rigged up a while back. I didn't use the A/B switch 'cause I didn't have a spare scsi cable handy, but plugged the CDRack into the 25-pin port on the Microtek scanner which is hooked up to the PC's scsi card. Everything checked out fine. Ran ReScan and watched as the VS drive partitions showed up in My Computer window and re-assigned my cd drive letters (great.... a rescan cured that too after shutting down the CDRack.)...

It seems that a lot of folk don't understand that the VS units (beyond the 880) have the ability to scan the scsi bus at any time, with no need to reboot, or even power on the scsi devices at initial bootup... so I like to point that out any chance I get. Leaving scsi drives offline at boot up lets a person boot the VS quickly and avoid having noisy fans, etc. running when the devices are not needed. Powering them up and performing a quick Drive Select when those things are required is all that's needed to get the VS to see them.

That's why I'm liking this ReScan appl. for the PC.

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/roland-cd-rack-digital-studio-storage-79876864
In case you've never heard of or seen the CD-Rack.... not being sold anymore, but pretty nice unit.

(Planeteer)

11/09/10 08:15 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

lol - SCSI $\:p$

I'm so glad we're in the 21st century now! $\:D$ SCSI What? SCSI Who? $;\)$

(Planeteer)

11/09/10 08:20 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

I always thought scsi was what people called me and my friends when we came off a week on the road

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/10/10 04:07 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

DT >>> we have 2 of Brett's DVD/HD racks --could not work without that rack. Just travel with the HD from studios to our main mastering HQ...

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/10/10 04:59 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Worked all day mixing --- don't know how you guys can work without faders and buttons -- I don't even remember using the mouse more than a few times in 6 hours ........Going to be a whole new ballgame --or a quite expensive adventure into controller boards $\:o$

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/10/10 07:16 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

I'm a little bit 20th century still -- but, can see the future around the corner $\:\)$

(Planeteer)

11/10/10 02:38 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

There's lots of folk in the live sound mixing world that swear by controllers because of the need for multiple fingers manipulating multiple controls at once.... and I can see their point.

Recording/editing/mixing with a mouse and keyboard may be an acquired taste for people who don't use a computer for other routine tasks, but how hard can it really be to take care of audio engineering tasks without a controller?

I see/read lots of evidence of people starting with a controller and soon after shelving it out of non-use. It's more of a rarity that I find the opposite to be true.

I'm not trying to talk you out of getting or using one... just don't be surprised if you find yourself moving away from it as you get used the the keyboard/mouse habit. It's really nice to have an uncluttered desk the size of a writing table in front of you for a keyboard and mouse instead of a big chunk of knobs and sliders. Maybe some people just like seeing the big board... I know I was initially mesmerized by such a system just last weekend... kinda cool to watch the motorized faders jumping around. I don't think there was a time in the couple hours I watched that the engineer moved more than one control at a time.

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/10/10 05:30 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Just more visual for me to look at a board ~ rather than a screen. Many are so use to menus and layers of screens behind one another. I really like every channel before me, with physical individual button/sliders.

There is still something about the connection of a slider, in your hand, and that channels volume > on the speaker in front of you. Just less to recall in the mind, if the controls are a hardware device for me. Maybe most create various shortcuts on the keys ?

I use a track ball -- never was able to use a standard mouse. Way too much tedious-spotting edits in Photoshop > my wrist was gone the first day...had to switch many years ago.
Trackball with the Roland

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/10/10 05:41 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Originally Posted By: bear

For a SCSI card for your PC get this one

http://cgi.ebay.com/ADAPTEC-AVA-2906-SCS...e#ht_500wt_1156

It has a 25 pin dB connector, so it will hook up to your song vault with the same cable that now hooks to the 2480 - just mount card in PCI slot in PC, unhook cable from 2480 and hook to AVA2906 card...

Got it~! Thanks ~! The ad stated ::: from a MAC DESKTOP but, you know your stuff.

(Planeteer)

11/10/10 05:57 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

It is just a PCI card, both MAC and PC use(d) PCI.

I have a adaptec 2906 card in my PC, I know they work. I have used it many times from VS storage devices.

(Planeteer)

11/10/10 05:59 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Start thinking about a much bigger monitor screen if you want to do serious PC DAW work...

And where the hell is your lava lamp? State law requires you to have one in setup like that.

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/10/10 06:01 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Originally Posted By: bear

Start thinking about a much bigger monitor screen if you want to do serious PC DAW work...

And where the hell is your lava lamp? State law requires you to have one in setup like that.

I have that SONY 21 tube -- guess I never do multiply screens with the VS 2480 .....my home TV tube is only 25

(Planeteer)

11/10/10 06:04 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

It is possible to use the 2480 as a control surface for control DAW.

I agree with UTD that most people just abandon the idea after the novelty wears off and they see how easy it is to just use a mouse, but if you wanted to try a control, the 2480 would work.

Of course you need a midi interface for it.

Someone, Arjun maybe? did a bunch of work making a software extension for reaper to really make the 2480 compatible with reaper as a control surface, I think it will drive the motorized faders. i would have to look around to refresh my memory on the details since I never used it myself.

(Planeteer)

11/10/10 06:05 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Once you go 42" LCD you never go back. 2 preferably.

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/10/10 10:58 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Something tells me >> we will have to raise our prices -- dual LCD's -- yikes. Wish this was a hobby -- $\:D$

(Planeteer)

11/10/10 11:27 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

24" 1920x1200 LCD's are below $200/ea $;\)$

This stuff is only as expensive as you make it!

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/11/10 01:13 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

The LCDs are more than my PC

Then you have to buy a dual card, etc ... But with my tri-focal glasses would probably work better > with larger screens

Like I posted :: our Mitsubishi ( 1987) Tube TV~ is only 25inches

Have the SCSI card -- and 4 sticks of Ram on the way --- few bites on my RME ADI-2

(Planeteer)

11/11/10 04:05 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Trackball mouse is GREAT!!

(Planeteer)

11/11/10 07:21 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

That motherboard only has 2 RAM sockets? From your picture earlier in this silly discussion...

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/11/10 07:30 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Originally Posted By: bear

That motherboard only has 2 RAM sockets? From your picture earlier in this silly discussion...

That's just the pic that appeared > from the Google search of my models PC

Thought I would open the Gateway >> Turns out it has four slots -- so I thought I would load it up ```Not a PC hardware guy~ usually have someone build the machine.

(Planeteer)

11/11/10 02:20 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Wouldn't that mean then that half of this discussion is about a motherboard that you don't even use?

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/12/10 01:35 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

You can see just how little I know about computers $\:\($ -- typed in the Gateway model -- and that's the specs I related. Just opened the unit up yesterday -- thought I might peak at the Ram on-board. Nice to know it will take 4gb....

Gateway website shows the Gateway GT4016 has the C51G
and the photo I posted.... just can't trust the Net , these days...

GT 4016

(Planeteer)

11/12/10 02:42 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

�One PCI Express �16
�One PCI Express �1
�Two PCI conventional

If this is correct, you'll have problems adding both a scsi pci card, plus more than one RME pci card (if you planned on that).

Maybe bear or Randyman can suggest how you could make use of the PCIe slots.

OT: Anybody else having extreme difficulty typing lines into the Reply window here lately? I get a terrible delayed response to my typting that never happened before about a week ago.

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/12/10 07:48 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Originally Posted By: uptildawn

�One PCI Express �16
�One PCI Express �1
�Two PCI conventional

One SCSI and a PCI RME setup-- that's all we need... simpler the better.....

(Planeteer)

11/12/10 08:33 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Hmmm.... then I was wrong the other day when I said the PCIe card would not work - I was going by the picture you posted (which shows no PCIe slots and only 2 RAM sockets).

So you can use either a PCI or PCIe RME card

BTW that PCIe unit eventually sold for $600, so it wasn't that great a deal...

(Planeteer)

11/12/10 02:14 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Can you mix both PCIe and PCI RME cards to gain more channels without any issues?

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/12/10 05:44 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

For live/large bands will still use the VS > with the 24 inputs.

With Reaper :: never more than 8 inputs ......the drums will always been MIDI from our drum pad/sampler setup. And do not reach much past a trio, in my studio.

From this to just a mouse - will be like moving to another world Reaper automation

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/12/10 05:49 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

Originally Posted By: bear

Hmmm.... then I was wrong the other day when I said the PCIe card would not work - I was going by the picture you posted (which shows no PCIe slots and only 2 RAM sockets).

So you can use either a PCI or PCIe RME card

BTW that PCIe unit eventually sold for $600, so it wasn't that great a deal...

Sorry for misinfo -- this looks much closer to the Gateway interior

(Planeteer)

11/13/10 03:08 AM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

I know it may seem like a giant move.... but I got to say, I don't really miss pushing all those buttons to get something done. $\:\)$

(Loquacious Planeteer)

11/16/10 05:27 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

We do have to do a lot of button pushin' /slow loading processes... $\:\($
. First we load the floppy in the Kurzweil keyboard -- sync that sequencer to a rack and then send the combined 16 analog channels to the VS :: Midi & ready to sync with the VS. That's a fair amount of buttons just to launch one-side of our recording process.

Now try to call up the corresponding song in the VS and your morning is half over before starting to mix

(Planeteer)

11/16/10 07:47 PM

Re: spdif to usb adapter

I just spent the morning converting a multi-track recording (27 channels x 43 minutes) from 96k to 44.1k... That's a pita too... but at least it can be done on a PC. $;\)$
I'd normally wait and just convert the two-track mixdown, but this was a rehearsal and I don't want to waste all that hard drive space and the processing power it takes to run that sessions just to have some reference takes.