#1009454 - 11/06/10 04:03 PM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: kid-surf]
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Popmann
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 33090
Loc: Twangville, TN
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My only point...which you made, is that there are tons of things you need to do and have/make fall into place that have nothing to do with musical talent and/or accomplishment.
I wasn't trying to imply that lack of success was because of some system "keeping you down"...
You have a good point about the majors putting out the "best" product...still, as a rule. But, that has more to do with the ability to put people together than any individual "picked". There are better singers in an AI audition in any given city than Mayer (since you used him as an example). But, do they have Pino Pallidino and Steve Jordan recording in Oceanway? I'm pretty sure that makes a difference in the recorded output. And that's not a slam on Mayer...I like him quite a bit, grand scheme...I'm just saying that comparing (as an example) what I can do with a couple friends in my home studio is not really a fair comparison. You know?
...and that is the most troubling aspect of them crumbling to me. As I hear what relatively wonderful songwriters do without that "top shelf" team around them...with smaller budgets...I think we, as a society, are losing some seriously wonderful music.
And what we gain...? Ehh. The ability to make music on a scale we couldn't if we are a member of the less talented and/or connected and/or beautiful masses. I guess I appreciate that as I resemble it...but, not as a fan.
Actually, as I look at my pathetic amount of albums bought in 2010...it's split about 2/3 major to 1/3 indie...but, the indies are 100% people who were once on majors and failed to sell the numbers needed to compete--so, they have a certain fan base...and knowledge taken from those experiences...not truly what I consider "indie" for the purposes of these discussions, because they didn't break themselves. They took the break they got...realized with their own or smaller label they could sustain a living where the majors couldn't make enough to justify being part of the big machine and it's overhead.
Take Jonatha Brooke...two major label deals in the 90s. Two big machines' marketing pushes...amassed and audience that was big enough for her to mine for her own living out of--not enough for MCA or WEA to continue financing. Still-had she not had those pushes, she wouldn't have the wide audience she enjoys today. I've long said we need a new filter/destination/taste maker if the majors are going to abandon everything except current hot stuff, which is what has happened as they lose profitability. They don't drop the Pinks of the world or cut their budget--they stop taking chances...they stop padding their roster with talented "charity cases" as write offs...
We are SO getting off topic, though. I need to practice. Check back later. 
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#1009606 - 11/07/10 01:36 PM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: rhythmace47]
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Herr Doktor
Planeteer
Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 6061
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You never really set us up for who "she" is. You have to create, first of all, the woman you are talking about. There's no back story. Why are you talking about her like that?
The song is not about any one woman. It's about ALL women, or rather, all the ones who make mens' testicles ache. That's why there are no names or individual history. It's supposed to be about how beautiful women affect men.
As I was writing the lyric, I wrestled with whether to make it about an individual or whether to keep it general, and I chose the latter. But I think I see where you're coming from. Writing teachers tell us to choose the particular over the general.
As I've considered what (I think) you're saying, I'm reminded of Eleanor Rigby. McCartney brought loneliness into full intensity by describing individuals like Eleanor Rigby and Father McKenzie.
So thank you for the fine criticism.
She got so much love to give a man
A lucky man
She can take his seed and give it life
(get rid of that statement)
What's your beef? I think it's the heart of the song and the most poignant statement. I'm suspecting you didn't actually listen to the song to see how it fits (but maybe that's because you don't offer any critique of the music).
As long as there's a woman who can make a man long
You can bet your bottom dollar that the race will go on
(this is not working either...like you just want to finish the tune however you have to)
Funny you should say that, because the last verse was the first one I wrote, and then I built the rest of the lyrics to lead up to that climax. (That doesn't mean it's right, or good, I'll admit...) But again, what's your beef? Why do those two lines bother you?
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#1009645 - 11/07/10 06:34 PM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: rhythmace47]
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Herr Doktor
Planeteer
Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 6061
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I'm not being defensive, brother, just asking what it is you didn't like about those lines. I appreciate you taking the time to offer some help!
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#1009700 - 11/07/10 11:10 PM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: Silversmith]
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Popmann
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 33090
Loc: Twangville, TN
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I would only say that a woman "taking a man's seed" and "making a man long" in the same song makes me giggle too much. It reminds me of when I was trying to fit the mold of hair band guy--writing oversexed kinds of lyrics of the genre. I could never sing them with any conviction because they are SO silly. I'm just not THAT guy, so I can't pull it off. Even when I tried to write about real life encounters that were certainly worthy--it came out as trite and teenage.
I don't know how Sebastian Bach could not laugh singing shit like "she's got the big guns, pointed at my heart...bang, bang , bang like a firing sqaud" without laughing.
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#1009701 - 11/07/10 11:14 PM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: Popmann]
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Silversmith
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 40001
Loc: Commanda, Canada
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So is he. Or close to it. FWIW. You would know him as the singer from Mr Mister in the 80s. Since then, he's made a living as a writer...session singer...and various failed but marvelous outings on his own and with Patrick Leonard.
heh heh
For the most, I stopped listening to pop music in about 1977. I think the last "pop" album that Ibought was "The Stranger" by Billy Joel. (That was the album with "Just the way You Are")
I wouldn't recognize a Mister Mister song at all.
_________________________
The truth is but a moment's glance beyond the infinite Andy on Soundcloud
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#1009758 - 11/08/10 02:45 PM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: Silversmith]
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Herr Doktor
Planeteer
Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 6061
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I always dug that tune Dok. I think I played it in that radio show a number of times.
And what a great radio show you did, man!
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#1009817 - 11/08/10 06:07 PM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: Herr Doktor]
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virtualan
Planeteer
Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 14958
Loc: Sauchie, Scotland, UK
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I miss the Silversmith Shows
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#1010009 - 11/09/10 10:57 AM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: virtualan]
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Delso
Planeteer
Registered: 06/27/99
Posts: 16177
Loc: the beautiful Blackmore Vale
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Heh heh, but "Wazzawat's"?
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#1010106 - 11/09/10 08:55 PM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: Stuart]
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Herr Doktor
Planeteer
Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 6061
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Are you playing a real drum set, Stuart? Or just doing the best you can with a keyboard controller?
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#1010288 - 11/10/10 11:14 PM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: Popmann]
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Herr Doktor
Planeteer
Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 6061
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I would only say that a woman "taking a man's seed" and "making a man long" in the same song makes me giggle too much.
If the "make a man long" line makes you giggle, then I succeeded at my intent. The third verse is set up just like any joke by a stand-up comic, with a punchline complete with rapid-fire delivery and the alliteration of a Warner Brothers cartoon.
Maybe I should go back to the punchline and, like a Warner Brothers cartoon, add in a big "SPROINGGGG" sound effect there to punctuate it... (That would be the sound of an erection busting out!)
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#1010361 - 11/11/10 11:49 AM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: Herr Doktor]
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Delso
Planeteer
Registered: 06/27/99
Posts: 16177
Loc: the beautiful Blackmore Vale
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I haven't posted in this thread for a while.
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#1010369 - 11/11/10 01:49 PM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: Herr Doktor]
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Jazzooo
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 55412
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
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I'm finally listening to True Fine Pretty Woman. I actually like the guitar tone, which fits the overall Batman-theme retro feel you've chosen. It is fun, but I feel you can do better--the opening lyric, 'Sweeter than honey,' is such a cliche' that I was aware of myself saying "Yikes, will the whole song be like that?" Luckily you had some lyrics that made me think later on, but of you ever decide to update this I'd revise the lyrics to start with a bigger punch.
Your voice is gorgeous, especially compared to mine! I did hear some groove problems where the singing got ahead of the band a little here and there. Do you hear what I mean?
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Dougrobinson.com
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#1010371 - 11/11/10 02:04 PM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: Jazzooo]
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Jazzooo
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 55412
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
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About that opening lyric again--I realized that my friend and I had written a similarly-themed song, although it was called Don't Touch Those High School Women. The opening line, which I believe was my friend's, was:
She might bait the hook
She might make you look
She might drive you wild, make your blood cook
I always thought that using the words 'bait' and 'hook' in the first line was punchy and original, and kind of a grabber (especially the way my friend sang it).
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Dougrobinson.com
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#1010403 - 11/11/10 04:51 PM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: Jazzooo]
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Herr Doktor
Planeteer
Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 6061
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Your voice is gorgeous, especially compared to mine! I did hear some groove problems where the singing got ahead of the band a little here and there. Do you hear what I mean?
Thank you, Doug, for the compliment. That means a lot to me. If you have time, could you point out where "the singing got ahead of the band"?
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#1010415 - 11/11/10 06:24 PM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: Herr Doktor]
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flatcat
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 29784
Loc: Westborough, MA, USA
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I tried writing sort-of stream of consciousness lyrics kind-of like the psychedelic Lennon stuff when I was younger, and I had that same realization: if I don't believe it, I can't sing it. Somehow, Lennon knew what he was going for. I was just trying to put things together and be clever and that stuff never saw the light of day.
A useful exercise, though.
_________________________
The internet, and the whole technology sector on which it floats, feels like a giant organ for bullshittery—for upscaling human access to speech and for amplifying lies. - Ian Bogost
Professor Truth T. Sweetness says,"Mind your manners!"
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#1010674 - 11/13/10 01:53 PM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: flatcat]
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Herr Doktor
Planeteer
Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 6061
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if I don't believe it, I can't sing it.
Same here. Fortunately, I'm pretty good at acting out the roles required. This summer I re-did an old original where I had to act out the roll of the singer who chanced to stumble across his idol Elvis.
Last summer I recorded a version of Love Potion #9, which is a fun role to act out. Same with "Little Red Riding Hood". Or even "Brown Sugar". The singer is a character in a mini-play, so singing becomes acting.
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#1010733 - 11/13/10 05:40 PM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: Herr Doktor]
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Popmann
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 33090
Loc: Twangville, TN
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If you can "act out the role"...it's not the same thing. IMO. That's what I'm saying--I can't act. Vocally, that is.
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#1010736 - 11/13/10 05:46 PM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: Popmann]
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flatcat
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 29784
Loc: Westborough, MA, USA
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I always thought that lead singers should take acting classes. It's a million times easier to do stuff when you become someone else than if you try to stay yourself and do it.
I used to be the lead singer and bass player for a 'show' band up in New Hampshire. We did all the hits of the day, big stage, big sound system, lights, all that. And at some point, I started wearing what was essentially a costume. And when I started doing that, I became a much more interesting and exciting lead singer. I used to climb up on the PA, run around on the stage, whatever. I rarely did that when I showed up for gigs in my regular clothes.
It's important.
I use visualization a lot when I sing. Sometimes it's visualizing the notes, so I can kind-of "see" where they are, so I can hit them more purposefully and strongly, or I can approach them in a particular way (from on top for example, rather than sliding up into them). And sometimes I want a particular sound, so I try to visualize a particular singer singing a part, then I try to be that singer. I do this frequently with David Crosby and Graham Nash - I'll try and imagine I'm Nash or Crosby while I'm singing a particular part. It really works for me. YMMV.
_________________________
The internet, and the whole technology sector on which it floats, feels like a giant organ for bullshittery—for upscaling human access to speech and for amplifying lies. - Ian Bogost
Professor Truth T. Sweetness says,"Mind your manners!"
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#1010769 - 11/13/10 08:07 PM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: flatcat]
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Herr Doktor
Planeteer
Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 6061
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And at some point, I started wearing what was essentially a costume. And when I started doing that, I became a much more interesting and exciting lead singer. I used to climb up on the PA, run around on the stage, whatever. I rarely did that when I showed up for gigs in my regular clothes.
I had the same experience! When I was lead singer in Brother's Keeper, I was just me, singing honestly from the heart. And in retrospect my performances were nowhere near as exciting as when I later sang lead in Johnny and the Earthlings, where I wore costumes and acted out the role of an alien who was just visiting Earth.
It was quite liberating to be someone else. So much easier to drop the inhibitions and really give 'em a show!
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#1011043 - 11/15/10 10:20 AM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: Herr Doktor]
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Delso
Planeteer
Registered: 06/27/99
Posts: 16177
Loc: the beautiful Blackmore Vale
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" if I don't believe it, I can't sing it"
Someone beat me to it, but that's it in a nutshell...for original material. I can sing "Six Days On The Road" without a qualm; if anyone believes I'm an Ameddican trucker is another matter!
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Artiste # 2 (those were the days!)
VS-Planet Syntax Snob and Deputy Spelling Nazi.
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#1011047 - 11/15/10 12:54 PM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: Delso]
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havlicek
Planeteer
Registered: 05/26/02
Posts: 6738
Loc: East Hampton, NY
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" if I don't believe it, I can't sing it"
I think you can get beyond that in many cases. At least with original songs, I think most people do usually write things that are completely without subjective content. I mean, not many people will write a song about travelling to Jupiter's moons to rescue their girlfriend from alien abductors...I think. Also, it doesn't have to be an "act" to relate to a strong lyric that expresses common emotions. Even an Englishman singing cowboy songs can work no problem  (although I can't for the life of me understand how Brits can lose their accent when singing this stuff!).
-john
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-John Havlicek (from "How To Spot An Internet Idiot", © 2012)
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#1011062 - 11/15/10 03:28 PM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: havlicek]
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Herr Doktor
Planeteer
Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 6061
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"not many people will write a song about travelling to Jupiter's moons to rescue their girlfriend from alien abductors."
That would be a fresh song! Makes me think of "Rocket Man" and "Space Oddity" -- Can you hear me, Major Tom?
Anyway, one of my biggest joys of singing is putting on the role and being somebody else for a while. Like the Beatles did with "Sgt. Pepper" and "I Am The Walrus" and a gazillion others.
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#1011069 - 11/15/10 04:11 PM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: Herr Doktor]
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ulank
Forum Person
Planeteer
Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 20165
Loc: Chicago, IL
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Well that settles it. I'm gonna dress like Lady Gaga tonite and track some vocals. Will let you know how it goes.
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#1011073 - 11/15/10 04:52 PM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: ulank]
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Starliner
Planeteer
Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 3173
Loc: Florida - Dunnellon
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ulank wrote: "Well that settles it. I'm gonna dress like Lady Gaga tonite and track some vocals. Will let you know how it goes."
I think that would be cool, especially if you ran video and sang "A Boy Named Sue" in a Johnny Cash voice.
Starliner
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Half The Lies They Tell About Me Aren't True!
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#1011095 - 11/15/10 08:16 PM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: Starliner]
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Herr Doktor
Planeteer
Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 6061
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I once visited my aunt and uncle for two weeks, and the whole time I was there, my normally sane uncle ran around the house singing that Barbara Streisand tune, "I Am A Woman In Love" -- now there was a guy who didn't mind acting out a role!!!
(But I guess he couldn't help it because my aunt kept playing that damn record over and over...)
(...and at least he wasn't singing "I Am Woman, Hear Me Roar" -- I would've had to shoot him)
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#1011210 - 11/16/10 11:57 AM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: Silversmith]
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Herr Doktor
Planeteer
Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 6061
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Whether you believe in a method acting appoach or the more traditional British approach, I think being a good actor is essential to singing a song with conviction.
If not, the singer is stuck singing about his own boring life and his own limited window of experiences.
I'm so glad Mick Jagger loved to act out roles, and gave the world Sympathy For The Devil, Brown Sugar, and Jumping Jack Flash, among many others. Where he portrayed the devil, a slave trader, and a guy born in a "crossfire hurricane" who was crowned with a spike right through his head.
Try to top those scenarios when writing about your own humdrum existance.
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#1011251 - 11/16/10 04:51 PM
Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at?
[Re: flatcat]
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Herr Doktor
Planeteer
Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 6061
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You probably howled at your ma in the driving rain, too.
But you probably weren't raised by a toothless, bearded hag.
Jumpin' Flat Cat, he's a gas, he's a gas!
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