I don't think those two things--marketability and quality--should ever be confused. As for songwriting, I suspect that most of us who don't listen to the radio much would definitely be out of the loop in terms of writing something that would be marketable to today's larger audiences, but that wouldn't reflect on the quality you or I might find in the work.

Kid I think that you know a lot about Hollywood. I know for a long while you were attempting to do film scores and... you are connected, like it or not. It might be fair to say that connection, or those connections, led you from film scoring to writing?

But I don't understand how you can ignore or dispute the fact that many artists do not make it in spite of being severely talented. Talent does not always rise to the top. The variables are incredible.

Even Hollywood has multiple stories of "talent" being discovered in off the cuff ways, having nothing to do with years of study and auditions. It is just too broad to paint the way I think you are.

I think it is different than say sports. Because in sports if you are a national standout at high school level all of the colleges know who you are. Then, as a standout in college, all of the pro teams are scouting you. In the creative arts there are literally millions of extremely talented people that will never receive that sort of attention no matter what they do. IMHO.

"I know people (producers) who tell me behind closed doors that their own film sucks...that they wish they could have done something else but that that they couldn't have got that something else financed. People have to make a living. "


I can understand that. There are plenty of good musicians who make 'smooth jazz' that is below their abilities for the same reasons. But...I think at some point, if all someone makes is simpleminded music that I don't like and they don't even like, you are allowed to stop thinking of them as great musicians. And then there are many others who aspire to do only that--getting a hit on the smooth jazz charts is all they are going for.

Many creative people have no marketing skills. And no desire to be a salesman. I'm one of them. I've improved my marketability over the years, but I don't have the constitution for schmoozing and for hanging out at social functions. That's not who I am. I'm a music maker. And no, at this point I do not expect to ever be successful at this. I'm way too old to be taken seriously.

I strongly disagree. I've known too many in my life.

I agree with most of what you say, but here you're really fantasizing. Artists are warned by their managers and lawyers to never personally accept a tape or CD from a stranger. Too many lawsuits.

In your statement, there's also an issue of whether a talented songwriter should alter his style to match somebody else's just because he can get a song to them. There are some songwriters who have that ability, and for them it is right. But there are other songwriters who need to just stick with what they do best and not, shall we say, prostitute themselves.

I really liked this thread when it was focused on home recording.

Somehow it turned into a thread about marketing. Sheesh.

"Many creative people have no marketing skills."


They can be learned.


"And no desire to be a salesman."


Then of course they shouldn't complain about their lack of sales, right?


" I've improved my marketability over the years, but I don't have the constitution for schmoozing and for hanging out at social functions. That's not who I am."

And that's fine. You're also not a hit songwriter who is willing to do that stuff in order to grab any possible opportunity to get heard.


"And no, at this point I do not expect to ever be successful at this."

I wouldn't if I were you either.


"I'm way too old to be taken seriously."

This, I disagree with--a good song is a good song. Could be written by a geezer, a Nazi, a republican or a geezer Nazi republican for that matter. No one has to know, if you're a good enough writer.

I think the definition of 'super talent' has to include some degree of knowing how to present himself today, and it's probably been that way for a long time. A fabulous chef you discover in a small town might be the next big thing, but if he tells his investors to go fuck themselves he won't get very far.

Not that often. I have done it on bass guitar to eliminate some amp buzz/noise though. If I was recording orchestras, I'd probably also use it on the triangle, cuz really, no one wants to hear that shit.

You're describing me. I'm out of the loop. I don't listen to what is popular, and I don't write that way, and have no desire to be successful doing music I don't like. So I'll continue to keep pleasing myself making the kind of music I like to hear. And I'm thrilled by what I do. Nothing else matters.

Me me me me.

Dok, would you consider throwing one of your tunes up on this thread?

Get your own thread! Ooops you already have 50.

I haven't said shit in months...cut me some fucking slack lint licker.

Not that often. I have done it on bass guitar to eliminate some amp buzz/noise though. If I was recording orchestras, I'd probably also use it on the triangle, cuz really, no one wants to hear that shit.

Example: There's an old dude down at the local bar who kills it as a blues guitarist. He is "severely talented". But he's old, and his clothes make him look like he works at 7-11, and his stage presence is weak, and he's not good looking, and his songs are just ok, and his fans are other old people who never buy his CDs despite thinking he's severely talented.

Dok, would you consider throwing one of your tunes up on this thread?

Seriously though, I just skimmed the last few pages...but, here's my thoughts on the whole life savings/mitigated risk factor. Of course that the WHY-is completely understandable, and completely what's wrong with the idea that the business/free market can ultimately pick the best art...but, does that make it less sad or personally disappointing? I might add that you just added yet another horrible stereotype to the fold...now, you're talented (which I still don't buy is actual criteria, but certainly more desirable than not), driven to spend your time twisting your art to cater to what the market (or more accurately the people selling to yesterday's market) wants, AND you've got to be fodder for teen girls' wall posters.

But, if you were talented enough, your cream would rise for sure, huh? My favorite thing about Kid is how I've learned not to argue with him...but, just let him go for long enough to make my point for me.