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#1009212 - 11/05/10 03:18 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: Jazzooo]
Herr Doktor Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Jazzooo
I don't think those two things--marketability and quality--should ever be confused. As for songwriting, I suspect that most of us who don't listen to the radio much would definitely be out of the loop in terms of writing something that would be marketable to today's larger audiences, but that wouldn't reflect on the quality you or I might find in the work.


You're describing me. I'm out of the loop. I don't listen to what is popular, and I don't write that way, and have no desire to be successful doing music I don't like. So I'll continue to keep pleasing myself making the kind of music I like to hear. And I'm thrilled by what I do. Nothing else matters.

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#1009223 - 11/05/10 03:55 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: Herr Doktor]
Jazzooo Online   content
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"You're describing me. I'm out of the loop. I don't listen to what is popular, and I don't write that way, and have no desire to be successful doing music I don't like. So I'll continue to keep pleasing myself making the kind of music I like to hear. And I'm thrilled by what I do. Nothing else matters. "


I'm also describing myself except that I do listen to what is popular in addition to what I love. It has had a broadening effect on my music in some ways, even though my current work is even less commercial than the work I did in the last 2 decades.

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#1009225 - 11/05/10 03:57 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: Herr Doktor]
Jazzooo Online   content
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Dok, would you consider throwing one of your tunes up on this thread?
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#1009281 - 11/05/10 06:27 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: bluenote]
kid-surf Offline
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 Originally Posted By: bluenote
Kid I think that you know a lot about Hollywood. I know for a long while you were attempting to do film scores and... you are connected, like it or not. ;\) It might be fair to say that connection, or those connections, led you from film scoring to writing?


Nah...those assumptions are incorrect, they're a myth.

My wife spoke to exactly "0" people about my composing other than to say "my husband is a composer." if they didn't know me and asked what I did. Not one person from her world offered to help me in any way, nor did she ask anyone to. How could that possibly be, you ask? Because all of those people were too high up the ladder to help me, nobody would/could risk a 30-100 million dollar film on a new composer, would never ever happen. So, I had to start on the very bottom with no help or tips or guidance of any kind, I had to go out and figure it out. I earned my own connections in that world. I meet a guy online who I became good friends with who gave me good guidance. My connections on my wife's side were 100% worthless to me as a composer. Not one job I got was in any way connected to my connections through her. And I did land gigs as a composer. My biggest was a 6 million dollar movie, but I got fired (because the director had a nervous breakdown - that's when I said "fuck this shit...maybe I should write my own movie")

So, I told me wife I wanted to write a script and she gave me that look like "are yo fucking crazy??? Now YOU'RE one of those delusional people too, WTF???" My wife told me to NOT write a screenplay, she was not supportive AT ALL, at first. And I don't blame her, it was totally out of the blue.

What happened next was that I wrote a great screenplay. She read it and was SHOCKED that she actually felt it was not good but GREAT. She wanted to get a second opinion, a REAL opinion. So we changed my name on the script and she gave it to a colleague of hers. She didn't hype it, she simple said "Tell me what you think of this writer". They read it and loved it and handed it to another agent, they wanted to represent me thinking I was some dude from god knows where. I then had to come clean and admit that it was ME. No...no favors of any kind. I found representation and finally a deal based on the quality of the work. You might say "well someone was able to pass your script to them". Sure, but they "pass" on most of those scripts, this is the hardest agency in the WORLD to find representation at.

Everyone in this town is in the industry, getting your work seen is the easy part.

 Quote:
But I don't understand how you can ignore or dispute the fact that many artists do not make it in spite of being severely talented. Talent does not always rise to the top. The variables are incredible.


I'm not disputing that. Everyone's story is different. BUT...the question becomes "whose version of severely talented?" And "talented in what way?" That's where the train usually goes of the tracks.

Example: There's an old dude down at the local bar who kills it as a blues guitarist. He is "severely talented". But he's old, and his clothes make him look like he works at 7-11, and his stage presence is weak, and he's not good looking, and his songs are just ok, and his fans are other old people who never buy his CDs despite thinking he's severely talented. That guy doesn't look like a "sure thing" to an executive. Put the shoe on the other foot, you have to make money here, YOU are investing your own money: You see a dude like that or you see a guy like John Mayer. Who are you going to bet your life savings on? These people take mitigated risk UNLESS something is so clearly game changing that they're willing to risk their own livelihood on an artist.



 Quote:
Even Hollywood has multiple stories of "talent" being discovered in off the cuff ways, having nothing to do with years of study and auditions. It is just too broad to paint the way I think you are.


Those occurrences are so utterly rare that they're not even worth mentioning. Again, it's far easier to be brilliant than to be lucky.

 Quote:
I think it is different than say sports. Because in sports if you are a national standout at high school level all of the colleges know who you are. Then, as a standout in college, all of the pro teams are scouting you. In the creative arts there are literally millions of extremely talented people that will never receive that sort of attention no matter what they do. IMHO.


Not true, they will receive that sort of attention if they go out and cultivate it. That's the rub. That's just the way it is. It's akin to saying "I earned my college diploma but nobody is scouting me, WTF?" It's like, what are these people supposed to do, knock on your door? You have to go out and get a job.

The arts are very primitive. You eat what you kill, there is no welfare. It's akin to early man, if you could not kill for meat, you'd starve to death...no matter how strong you were on paper.

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#1009282 - 11/05/10 06:33 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: kid-surf]
kid-surf Offline
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Nutshell: Despite my huge connections the ONE favor my wife did for me in 20 years was to pass my script to ONE person. From that point it was my agents (not my wife) who did everything.

This based on my material being something they saw as having value...

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#1009283 - 11/05/10 06:35 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: kid-surf]
kid-surf Offline
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Oh and...what my association with my wife and connections have done for me is allow me to see how the industry really works. Which in a round about way helped me as a composer and finally a screenwriter/producer (ha! It's funny calling myself a producer even if it's only on paper at this point)
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#1009284 - 11/05/10 06:36 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: Jazzooo]
kid-surf Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Jazzooo
"I know people (producers) who tell me behind closed doors that their own film sucks...that they wish they could have done something else but that that they couldn't have got that something else financed. People have to make a living. "


I can understand that. There are plenty of good musicians who make 'smooth jazz' that is below their abilities for the same reasons. But...I think at some point, if all someone makes is simpleminded music that I don't like and they don't even like, you are allowed to stop thinking of them as great musicians. And then there are many others who aspire to do only that--getting a hit on the smooth jazz charts is all they are going for.


Agreed...

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#1009286 - 11/05/10 06:41 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: Herr Doktor]
kid-surf Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Herr Doktor
 Originally Posted By: kid-surf
You say "undiscovered super talent" as if 1) It's not the super talent's responsibility to make sure they are discovered.
Many creative people have no marketing skills. And no desire to be a salesman. I'm one of them. I've improved my marketability over the years, but I don't have the constitution for schmoozing and for hanging out at social functions. That's not who I am. I'm a music maker. And no, at this point I do not expect to ever be successful at this. I'm way too old to be taken seriously.

 Originally Posted By: kid-surf
Super talents are normally, at some point, scooped up.
I strongly disagree. I've known too many in my life.


I used to have no interest in selling myself...but then I looked around and noticed all the great artists who did it for the sake of their material. Not doing is a copout in my opinion, it's allowing THEM to beat you. I wanted my work to win that battle, I'll sacrifice having to do the lame bullshit for the sake of my art. The up side is that this is in no way selling out.

I used to believe that everyone should come running to me if I indeed was so great, later in life I realized the hoax of my thinking.

Again, I can't take your word for it that they were super talents. No offense.

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#1009287 - 11/05/10 06:47 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: Herr Doktor]
kid-surf Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Herr Doktor
 Originally Posted By: kid-surf
Or you could be a little more aggressive and jokingly say "I have the track right here on a CD." Guarantee you she'll be curious enough to listen to it on the way home.


I agree with most of what you say, but here you're really fantasizing. Artists are warned by their managers and lawyers to never personally accept a tape or CD from a stranger. Too many lawsuits.


I've known too many very successful people to know that what people are told to do and what they actually do are two very different things. It's like, what is your OTHER option? If you have another, better, option then do that, otherwise...

 Quote:
In your statement, there's also an issue of whether a talented songwriter should alter his style to match somebody else's just because he can get a song to them. There are some songwriters who have that ability, and for them it is right. But there are other songwriters who need to just stick with what they do best and not, shall we say, prostitute themselves.


Oh...you mean like every film composer out there? Or all those commissioned artists from centuries past, like Michelangelo? Art has always been the place where you are a prostitute on some level. That's how you get paid to do it...you share it.

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#1009288 - 11/05/10 06:49 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: Herr Doktor]
kid-surf Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Herr Doktor
I really liked this thread when it was focused on home recording.

Somehow it turned into a thread about marketing. Sheesh.


So, take us back on topic. Never heard of A story B story. Both can coexist w/o censorship. ;\)

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#1009290 - 11/05/10 06:52 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: Jazzooo]
kid-surf Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Jazzooo
"Many creative people have no marketing skills."


They can be learned.


"And no desire to be a salesman."


Then of course they shouldn't complain about their lack of sales, right?


" I've improved my marketability over the years, but I don't have the constitution for schmoozing and for hanging out at social functions. That's not who I am."

And that's fine. You're also not a hit songwriter who is willing to do that stuff in order to grab any possible opportunity to get heard.


"And no, at this point I do not expect to ever be successful at this."

I wouldn't if I were you either. \:\)


"I'm way too old to be taken seriously."

This, I disagree with--a good song is a good song. Could be written by a geezer, a Nazi, a republican or a geezer Nazi republican for that matter. No one has to know, if you're a good enough writer.

I think the definition of 'super talent' has to include some degree of knowing how to present himself today, and it's probably been that way for a long time. A fabulous chef you discover in a small town might be the next big thing, but if he tells his investors to go fuck themselves he won't get very far.



101% agree...


This is a new age. We are in control of our own destinies. That's how I got a deal to do a tv show 2 friggn years after I wrote my very first script. That is UNHEARD OF! (not to toot my own horn, but it is)

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#1009291 - 11/05/10 06:53 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: ulank]
kid-surf Offline
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 Originally Posted By: ulank
Not that often. I have done it on bass guitar to eliminate some amp buzz/noise though. If I was recording orchestras, I'd probably also use it on the triangle, cuz really, no one wants to hear that shit.


Haha!!!

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#1009292 - 11/05/10 06:55 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: kid-surf]
GAMBLE Offline
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Me me me me.
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#1009293 - 11/05/10 06:58 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: Herr Doktor]
kid-surf Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Herr Doktor
 Originally Posted By: Jazzooo
I don't think those two things--marketability and quality--should ever be confused. As for songwriting, I suspect that most of us who don't listen to the radio much would definitely be out of the loop in terms of writing something that would be marketable to today's larger audiences, but that wouldn't reflect on the quality you or I might find in the work.


You're describing me. I'm out of the loop. I don't listen to what is popular, and I don't write that way, and have no desire to be successful doing music I don't like. So I'll continue to keep pleasing myself making the kind of music I like to hear. And I'm thrilled by what I do. Nothing else matters.



And then there's people like me: I rarely watch tv or go to the movies cuz I hate so much of it. So I set out to MAKE them like my stuff. And it worked..so far. People with enough drive sometimes find that they can make fans with work that doesn't seem to neatly fit into the demographic. I speak from personal experience.

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#1009294 - 11/05/10 06:59 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: GAMBLE]
kid-surf Offline
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 Originally Posted By: GAMBLE
Me me me me.


No, me me me....

Get your own thread! Ooops you already have 50. ;\)

I haven't said shit in months...cut me some fucking slack lint licker. ;\)

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#1009295 - 11/05/10 07:01 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: Jazzooo]
kid-surf Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Jazzooo
Dok, would you consider throwing one of your tunes up on this thread?


+1 I'd like to hear it for the sake of know what he does. I have no interest in saying "oh that's not good enough" or "that's not a super a talent". I've never heard his music, is all. And I don't play internet bullshit anymore...

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#1009297 - 11/05/10 07:05 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: kid-surf]
GAMBLE Offline
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 Quote:
Get your own thread! Ooops you already have 50.


It was a light week.

 Quote:
I haven't said shit in months...cut me some fucking slack lint licker.


I just wanted to get a word in......or 4 actually.

Feel free to continue giving your opinion on every single sentence in this thread....including this one if you like.

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#1009310 - 11/05/10 07:32 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: Herr Doktor]
virtualan Offline
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Fuk now the threads gone all about dairy marketing strategy... Sheez!
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#1009322 - 11/05/10 07:52 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: kid-surf]
Jazzooo Online   content
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Just saw Due Date, with Robt Downey Jr and Zack Galifianakis. Not one person in that entire operation noticed they were simply making a far less funny version of Planes, Tranes and Automobiles? One or two funny moments, but aggressively mediocre and derivative in all other ways?

Someone got paid big bucks to direct and produce that one; the actors took a big payday, I'm sure. It is as if these people weren't even trying to make a good movie.

Oh, and sometimes I have trouble with a kind of fluffy low end on my home recordings.

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#1009345 - 11/05/10 09:30 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: Jazzooo]
flatcat Administrator Offline
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 Quote:
Not that often. I have done it on bass guitar to eliminate some amp buzz/noise though. If I was recording orchestras, I'd probably also use it on the triangle, cuz really, no one wants to hear that shit.


Man, I hear that. Triangles. Celestas. Ding ding ding. You know what I'm saying?

I actually had a very interesting chat with a guy who came to my office the other day about marketing in the film business. He is an expert. I was adjudicating him and his model wife (as in, she's a model) for their O visas - look it up.

He was saying that there's been a complete shift in the way Hollywood markets movies over the past bunch of years, with a much, much, much greater emphasis on opening weekend, almost to the exclusion of everything else. If you have the big first weekend, you're all set. And because media moves so fast - and there are so many critics who have internet forums of friends or connections or blog watchers or whatever, EVERYONE is now a critic. And in the theaters, people tweet and text and whatever about movies they like or don't. And so you have to build up a LOT of excitement ahead of time to get people to go during that first weekend, because if it sucks, people will say so, but they've already dropped their coin. There will be no staying power to the film.

It was a fascinating conversation with someone who totally knows what he is talking about.

On the side-chain stuff - I'm thinking whatever, bass/kick stuff? People sometimes use this as their "secret weapon" while mixing. I don't know, on the tune I've been working on, I don't think it's a problem. If I can actually figure it out, I might try it. It sounds OK without, to me. I just ... haven't tried it. Might be good to work on.
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#1009346 - 11/05/10 09:34 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: Jazzooo]
Popmann Offline
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 Quote:
Example: There's an old dude down at the local bar who kills it as a blues guitarist. He is "severely talented". But he's old, and his clothes make him look like he works at 7-11, and his stage presence is weak, and he's not good looking, and his songs are just ok, and his fans are other old people who never buy his CDs despite thinking he's severely talented.


Dude...really, I thought we were gonna make this not about ME? Cheap shot, man. ;\)

Seriously though, I just skimmed the last few pages...but, here's my thoughts on the whole life savings/mitigated risk factor. Of course that the WHY-is completely understandable, and completely what's wrong with the idea that the business/free market can ultimately pick the best art...but, does that make it less sad or personally disappointing? I might add that you just added yet another horrible stereotype to the fold...now, you're talented (which I still don't buy is actual criteria, but certainly more desirable than not), driven to spend your time twisting your art to cater to what the market (or more accurately the people selling to yesterday's market) wants, AND you've got to be fodder for teen girls' wall posters.

But, if you were talented enough, your cream would rise for sure, huh? My favorite thing about Kid is how I've learned not to argue with him...but, just let him go for long enough to make my point for me. ;\)

I'm going to start my script and accompanying musical called "Cubeland" now. It's going to be the story of broken down middle aged people who live in these little boxes. They can't see each other, so they argue blindly about nonesense through cubicle walls. It's like a metaphor for the boxes we live in, see...and the internet is like their connections...and "the man" is the VP of the company that no one's ever actually seen, see, but they're sure he's making all the dumb decisions for them and keeping them down...and then one day there's a plague and most of them die...and the few survivors walk out of the boxes and join hands and realize there was never a boss...then they realize there was never any boxes...and then they are free and they walk together into the sunset as the credits role.

I'll sub the curtain for credits in the musical version. That version has the cooler end due to the catchy ditty they sing as they walk together into the sunset. Leaves the crowd feeling empowered to change their pathetic little average lives.

Man, I'm feeling weird tonight, huh?

Fluffy low end, huh? Lots of HPFs and an La3a for the bass. Done. Next? \:\)

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#1009347 - 11/05/10 09:36 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: Popmann]
Popmann Offline
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Actually, in rereading...it's not my favorite thing about Kid...just one of the many traits I find endearing.
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#1009351 - 11/05/10 09:58 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: Popmann]
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Hey, I like "Cubicle".
It's like a modern day version of Lifeboat.
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#1009361 - 11/05/10 10:23 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: Jazzooo]
Herr Doktor Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Jazzooo
Dok, would you consider throwing one of your tunes up on this thread?


I'd love to. I'd really like to hear your critique, Doug (and other folks', too). But I'll have to get Popmann's help, I guess, because I've forgotten how to convert them to MP3, etc.

In the meantime, here's one I did about ten years ago, if the link still works -- I do a lot of styles of music and I guess I would consider this one "80's pop rock" or "70's pop rock":

http://www.vsplanet.com/mp3s/h/herrdoktorTrueFinePrettyWoman.mp3

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#1009363 - 11/05/10 10:25 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: MadGuitrst]
NOK Offline
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what am i worst at with home recording.. ? forgetting to turn the ***n thing on..

did a really good blues thing 2 nite.. I liked anyway.. didn't have time to turn on the amp either and set up all the effect pedals.. maybe later


and DoC... soundN goOd..


Edited by NOK (11/05/10 10:26 PM)

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#1009367 - 11/05/10 10:31 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: Herr Doktor]
Herr Doktor Offline
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Yeah, the link still works after all these years. I haven't heard this in a while... It makes me cringe, cos I've gotten a lot better at singing and mixing sense then.
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true fine pretty woman

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#1009368 - 11/05/10 10:33 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: Herr Doktor]
NOK Offline
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u sure? ;\)

sometimes we are too hard on ourselves \:\)


Edited by NOK (11/05/10 10:34 PM)

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#1009369 - 11/05/10 10:35 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: MadGuitrst]
rhythmace47 Offline
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What's happenin? \:\) The thread that wouldn't die.

The hardest thing about home recording is trying to get to that one tipping point where you have to admit to yourself you have something worth sharing and believing in what you do or walking away from it. That is if you're serious about any of the aspects of it...you have to realize you can't do it all. No way. You might make a great demo though and convince someone you really know what you're doing. That might take you somewhere. At that point nobody's going to really care what you recorded it on or how you recorded it.
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#1009370 - 11/05/10 10:36 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: NOK]
Herr Doktor Offline
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Listening to True Fine Pretty Woman again after all these years, I wish I could say my finger drumming has improved. But it's still... that way...

And I really hate the nasty lead guitar tone on this song. It sounds too solid state instead of tubey. My entire LG tone has changed since ten years ago. As I've mellowed out with age, so has my guitar tone.

There's other things about this recording that I'd like to change now...

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#1009373 - 11/05/10 10:46 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: Herr Doktor]
Herr Doktor Offline
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Here's the lyrics if anyone wants to criticize them...

TRUE FINE PRETTY WOMAN

Sweeter than honey, she's a flower in bloom
The men turn their heads when she walks into the room
Eyes full of secrets, lips full of need
She got a body like you wouldn't believe
She's a true fine pretty woman

Blessed with the power to charm and to please
She just wants a man who will give her what she needs
She'll peel his heart open with a laugh or a sigh
That little girl can make a grown man cry
She's a true fine pretty woman

She got so much love to give a man
A lucky man
She can take his seed and give it life

She's the kind of woman you long for at night
You long for her loving, you long to hold her tight
As long as there's a woman who can make a man long
You can bet your bottom dollar that the race will go on
She's a true fine pretty woman

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#1009377 - 11/05/10 11:05 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: Herr Doktor]
NOK Offline
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good words... I know a lady like that... her name is Heather...

never held her as I was so much older

just listened to her talk

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#1009378 - 11/05/10 11:17 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: NOK]
Herr Doktor Offline
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Thanks, NOK.

I know hundreds of women like that. They truly make my balls hurt. But I guess a fat, bald, broke, short, old guy with acne scars has to settle for what he can get.
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true fine pretty woman

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#1009380 - 11/05/10 11:22 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: NOK]
rhythmace47 Offline
Planeteer/Artist 208
Planeteer


Registered: 05/17/02
Posts: 10437
Loc: Southern Wisconsin
She got so much love to give a man
A lucky man
She can take his seed and give it life

(get rid of that statement)

As long as there's a woman who can make a man long
You can bet your bottom dollar that the race will go on

(this is not working either...like you just want to finish the tune however you have to)

Other than that (without listening) good to go!


Edited by rhythmace47 (11/05/10 11:26 PM)
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Imagine your lyrics on the horizon written by a skywriter.

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#1009381 - 11/05/10 11:32 PM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: rhythmace47]
rhythmace47 Offline
Planeteer/Artist 208
Planeteer


Registered: 05/17/02
Posts: 10437
Loc: Southern Wisconsin
The other thing about this song? The word "she". You never really set us up for who "she" is. You have to create, first of all, the woman you are talking about. There's no back story. Why are you talking about her like that? What's the deal?
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Imagine your lyrics on the horizon written by a skywriter.

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#1009409 - 11/06/10 07:47 AM Re: Of all the talents it takes to make home recordings, what are you worst at? [Re: rhythmace47]
kid-surf Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 09/21/99
Posts: 14908
Jazz - It happens, they make some lame ass shit...too often. The best, most original, most refreshing scripts are often the ones they don't make, and everyone complains about it. And nobody in the general public has any idea that those scripts exist. And then the studio hires that writer to write something and he turns in a good draft and they give him 8 million notes on how to dumb it down, and the writer rolls his eyes and wants to stab everyone in the room. But then he only does half the notes because he'll vomit if he does them all, and so they fire him and bring on a new writer. And the studio continues on with this process until they've thoroughly run the thing into the ground and now they want to make it cuz they have stars attached, but the stars will only do it if they can have their go to writer work on the script, so the studio agrees, and now the script is even more of a mess. But now the film is greenlit and the direct won't do it unless he can take a pass at it, so by this point the script is a vague resemblance of what the screenwriter wrote in the first place. And that's Hollywood.

Most of the "good" movies had one writer all the way through. Most of the bad movies had several (all uncredited). The way the WGA (Writers Guild of America) arbitrates "credit" is a joke.

Flat - Yep, been that way for years now. It's all about opening weekend.

 Quote:
Seriously though, I just skimmed the last few pages...but, here's my thoughts on the whole life savings/mitigated risk factor. Of course that the WHY-is completely understandable, and completely what's wrong with the idea that the business/free market can ultimately pick the best art...but, does that make it less sad or personally disappointing? I might add that you just added yet another horrible stereotype to the fold...now, you're talented (which I still don't buy is actual criteria, but certainly more desirable than not), driven to spend your time twisting your art to cater to what the market (or more accurately the people selling to yesterday's market) wants, AND you've got to be fodder for teen girls' wall posters.


Pop, how many indie/non label bands, tv shows, movies and books do you consume in comparison to the commercial arena? I bet it's less that 1%. So, no, I don't think I've made your point for you.

If there is a *better* where the heck is it? In hollywood they often have chosen the best scripts, they just don't make them. Which is not the same as never having chosen them. THAT'S the fucked up part.

You have the "catering to the market part" a little fucked up. Let's talk real shit here, too, and not just hypotheticals, cuz I'm out there doing this shiz for real: With my show I just went out and wrote what I thought should be on tv, I wasn't catering to anyone's taste but for my own. So, no you don't cater to a market you bring the market to you. I've been saying that for years, and now I've proven that you can at least get a deal using that philosophy.

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But, if you were talented enough, your cream would rise for sure, huh? My favorite thing about Kid is how I've learned not to argue with him...but, just let him go for long enough to make my point for me.


Not if one is sitting in the friggn house, no. You have to walk out into the marketplace in order for that to happen. Just the way it works. ;\)

Yeah you sound a little weird tonight.

My low end isn't fluffy enough, what do I do???

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