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#1043645 - 05/14/11 05:58 PM Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ?
Frank Griffith Offline
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I have not opened it up yet but just wondering a couple of things before doing this. Do I just remove the back off only or is there more to it?

My new 80mm Silenx model fan has a 3 pin and 3 wire connection, does the VS's fan have the same connection?

If not then how can I tell which wires are ground, positive and negative? The fan's wires are all the same copper/clear color.

I hate to do this job if it's a "splice the wires" kind of job and not be sure what's what.
Any helpful tips would be appreciated.
Thanks, Frank.
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#1043658 - 05/14/11 07:03 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: Frank Griffith]
BrianJ Offline
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Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 234
Frank,
Ground, positive, and negative...that sounds like AC, are you sure the fan in the 2480 is AC and not DC?

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#1043662 - 05/14/11 07:24 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: BrianJ]
Frank Griffith Offline
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Registered: 03/09/05
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That's why I am asking, I know little about PC electric, what the wires are or would be. I know it's a 12volt fan with 3 wires to it's 3 pin connector.

Edited by Frank Griffith (05/14/11 07:24 PM)
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#1043665 - 05/14/11 07:52 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: Frank Griffith]
BrianJ Offline
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Although I don't know much about the internal workings of the 2480, I do have a degree in electronics...

So, do you have a make and model of the fan you've purchased for a replacement? And did it come with any paperwork? I'd like to look it up online to get more information on it...

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#1043666 - 05/14/11 07:54 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: Frank Griffith]
BrianJ Offline
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Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 234
 Originally Posted By: Frank Griffith
That's why I am asking, I know little about PC electric, what the wires are or would be. I know it's a 12volt fan with 3 wires to it's 3 pin connector.


Are you speaking of the 2480 fan here, or your replacement fan?

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#1043669 - 05/14/11 08:16 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: BrianJ]
Frank Griffith Offline
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Here's the fan I bought, Silenx extrma pro 80mm.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5472115&CatId=801
The paper work says very little, how to install using screws and grmlet, hd power cable adapter provided and what direction the air flow is depending on what side the fan label is on.
Nothing about the wireing, they just expect you to plug the 3 pin connector's holes into a motherboard's 3 pins or use the hd power adapter to provide power to it.

If I knew whether the VS has a 3 pin connector before doing the job and found out it doesn't and I would have to do slicing etc then I might just not worry with it at all.
Thnx


Edited by Frank Griffith (05/14/11 08:18 PM)
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#1043674 - 05/14/11 08:47 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: Frank Griffith]
BrianJ Offline
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Well, for computer fans...

"This connector is used when connecting a fan to the motherboard or other circuit board. It is a small thick rectangular in-line female connector with two tabs on the outer-most edge of one long side. The size and spacing of the pin sockets is identical to a standard 3-pin female IC connector. The three pins are used for ground, +12 V power, and a tachometer signal."

So that tells us what your fan is doing, but that doesn't tell us if the 2480 uses this same type of fan...

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#1043675 - 05/14/11 08:58 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: BrianJ]
BrianJ Offline
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My best guess is that it probably uses the same type of fan, only the TACH line probably doesn't go anywhere on the board...if I'm not mistaken, the 2480 fan runs continuously at the same speed. This would indicate that it isn't monitored for RPM, just given voltage as long as the machine is on. It would be logical to use standard computer fans (all of which would have the same 3-pin connector)...however Roland is notorious for making EVERYTHING proprietary...hopefully this won't hold true of the fan!
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#1043688 - 05/14/11 10:56 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: BrianJ]
Frank Griffith Offline
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So my main thing to find out is if the VS has a 3 pin or 2 pin with out the RPM line. Maybe a call to Roland Service department Monday will solve this or just wait till I open up the VS next time?
Thanks for your help.
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#1043689 - 05/14/11 11:06 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: Frank Griffith]
BrianJ Offline
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Registered: 10/04/10
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If it were me I'd open it up and see what it looks like and see what it says on the fan...

Edited by BrianJ (05/14/11 11:35 PM)

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#1043753 - 05/15/11 01:04 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: BrianJ]
Frank Griffith Offline
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Registered: 03/09/05
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Loc: "All Be Quirky", NM
I was hoping to avoid having to open it up just to answer these questions. I know there were others who actually did this fan replacement job and was hoping to get some answers from them before moving forward.
Again, thanks for your help.
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#1043822 - 05/16/11 12:25 AM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: Frank Griffith]
Starliner Offline
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Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2463
Loc: Florida - Dunnellon
Hi Frank,

I looked at the Roland schematics for the VS-2480HD tonight.

The fan is fed with a 12 Volt DC supply, and the fan is listed as "DC Fan Motor."

The Roland manual lists two numbers for the fan: 02562956 and 9A0812L403.

The connector on the main board is designated CN-13 and the board should be labeled as such. This is a two-pin connector.

Pin 1 connects to a square foil trace, and should be +12 volts DC.

Pin 2 connects to a round foil trace and should be ground.

Note that you want to see which way the fan rotates to push the air on the original, so that your new fan moves the air in the same direction.

I do not see another connection pin for a third wire, so if this is a tachometer wire on your new fan, I assume it is not used on the VS unit.

Hope this helps.

Starliner


Edited by Starliner (05/16/11 12:13 PM)
Edit Reason: Removed mistake.
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#1043872 - 05/16/11 11:50 AM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: Starliner]
flintstone Offline
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Registered: 03/27/11
Posts: 19
Hey Frank,Looking at the end of the connector on the silenx with the guide tabs facing down,the center hole is the +12.The hole to the right of it is negative.The left hole is not used.The silenx will not work if you reverse the polarity.It is polarity protected.The red wire on the 2480 fan needs to be spliced to the center wire on the silenx.The blue wire to the silenx wire to the right per the above perspective.You can check your work by using a battery(9volt will work)I strongly recommend using heat shrink tubing on your splices.Electrical tape will become nothing more than a dried up peice of paper over time.Take care, Flintstone
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#1043874 - 05/16/11 12:11 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: flintstone]
Starliner Offline
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Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2463
Loc: Florida - Dunnellon
Flintstone,

Good point about the Silenx not working with reverse polarity.
I did not know this.

I wonder if they do this to keep the fan as quiet as possible... maybe one direction of airflow is quieter than the other?

Starliner
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#1043926 - 05/16/11 03:22 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: Starliner]
flintstone Offline
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Registered: 03/27/11
Posts: 19
Hey Starliner,I think it has to do with blade design.The individual "fins"are angled and sculpted to move air efficiently.Reversing rotation would diminish that.I also noticed the smaller hub design.Looking at the rear chassis cutout on the 2480,I saw that the circle of metal in the center of the original fan was way larger than that of the new fan, blocking some of the airflow from the blades.I removed that center "coin" with a small hacksaw blade.My intention is to give the new fan all the help it needs to remove heat.The cfm specs on the silenx are not as high as the original fan but darn good.I love the quietness and will always keep a watch on too much heat buildup. Take care,flintstone
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#1043938 - 05/16/11 04:02 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: flintstone]
Frank Griffith Offline
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Registered: 03/09/05
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Starliner,
The third wire is a tachometer from what I understand.

Flintstone,
By the "guide tab" facing down, I presume the pin holes are facing towards me?

What's odd is when I hang a peice of paper near the VS fan, it does not seem to be affected by the airflow, dows not seem to suck into the fan or blow away from the fan. I was hopeing to figure out the direction of airflow this way.
The Silenx fan info tells me that the fan's label is on the side of the fan hub, indicating the direction of the airflow so I have that much figure out.
Is the VS fan sucking in air or blowing it out?
Thanks for this very helpful info guys.
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#1043977 - 05/16/11 10:56 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: Frank Griffith]
Starliner Offline
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Registered: 05/19/09
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Loc: Florida - Dunnellon
No problem Frank, glad to help.

Starliner
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#1044003 - 05/17/11 07:19 AM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: Starliner]
flintstone Offline
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Registered: 03/27/11
Posts: 19
Hi Frank,yes..pin holes facing you.The fan blows air out of the vs. Flintstone
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#1044174 - 05/18/11 11:50 AM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: flintstone]
BrianJ Offline
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Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 234
Yes, the fan should be blowing air from the the inside to the outside of the unit.

Also, to one of the other posts, reversing polarity (when the fan allows) will make the fan spin the opposite direction, which will REVERSE the airflow.

Brian

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#1044185 - 05/18/11 01:16 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: BrianJ]
flintstone Offline
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Registered: 03/27/11
Posts: 19
Hi Brian,just fyi.Reversing polarity on the silenx 80 will not spin the fan in the opposite direction.It will not work at all.It is polarity protected by design.Just trying to keep it clear.Respectfully,Flintstone
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#1044210 - 05/18/11 03:34 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: flintstone]
BrianJ Offline
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Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 234
^^^ Correct! I was just stating that if you reverse polarity on a fan that CAN run both ways, you will get reverse airflow, it won't just be "diminished", it will actually go the other way...this particular fan seems not to allow that. Alot of DC motors will go in reverse though when the polarity is wrong. That's all I was saying! \:\)
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#1044232 - 05/18/11 05:31 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: BrianJ]
flintstone Offline
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Registered: 03/27/11
Posts: 19
Gotcha Bro,but blade profile is specific.Reversing spin is not the best option in any case.Sure,it will spin in the other direction but the airflow will be diminished.Probably no big deal in most cases but we`re all trying to improve and preserve a legacy product that we love.It only takes a few degrees of heat elevation to cause component failure when sustained.No contest here!We`re friends.Take care,flinstone
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#1044392 - 05/19/11 09:39 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: flintstone]
BrianJ Offline
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Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 234
??? I'm so confused with what you're saying about "diminished" airflow!

Let me say it this way...if a fan normally blows at 20mph in one direction and you reverse the polarity it will now suck air at the same 20mph speed...airflow will completely reverse and move at the same speed the other direction.

And I agree...you want to put in a fan that blows OUTWARD just like the original fan does!


Edited by BrianJ (05/19/11 09:40 PM)

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#1044395 - 05/19/11 11:04 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: BrianJ]
Starliner Offline
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Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2463
Loc: Florida - Dunnellon
I suspect that the volume of airflow in one direction is better than the reverse direction in the case of the Silenx 80 fan.

Although I have not personally seen a cross-section of the blades, I imagine they are airfoil-shaped (like a plane's wing) and can move air better in one direction than the other, hence the one-direction operation requirement for this fan.

If the blades were designed to have a dual airfoil, this might not be true when reversed.

Starliner
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#1044456 - 05/20/11 02:13 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: Starliner]
flintstone Offline
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Registered: 03/27/11
Posts: 19
Hey Brian,I know what you mean.I tossed and tugged at the old "gray matter" regarding the fan in my 2480 for a long time.About 3 yrs ago I decided to order a spare ps fan from Roland.They shipped me a factory replacement from Japan.Dang thing cost $45.00.About a year later,I was willing to go with a quieter design.First,I called Sanyo Denki to get cfm specs on the original 2480 fan.I had already tried to look up that info online with no result.The tech rep I spoke to told me that the 9a0812l403 was a custom model made for Roland designed to run at a slower rate to reduce noise.It is also polarity protected....fast fwd,I decided to try the silenx based on the recommendation of a fellow planeteer.I swapped it out.Still concerned about cfm rating of 18,I wired the old sanyo denki fan to a 12v ps.I now place it in front of the drive bay outside of the 2480.(caddy fan removed)I have it wired to a footswitch.When I use the 2480 footswitch to start my machine in record mode,I step on the footswitch that controls the old external fan to turn it off.Overkill?I don`t know..I just want to keep heat buildup to a minimum.Getting back to the "I know what you mean"part,I had an old ac window fan that had a reverse switch labeled "intake and exhaust".Worked great...I think the bottom line on all of this is to make every effort to run this machine as cooly and quietly as possible.Take care,flintstone
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#1044593 - 05/21/11 07:10 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: flintstone]
BrianJ Offline
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Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 234
Agreed...

Frank, let me know how this works out for you...I'm interested in a quieter solution as well...

Brian

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#1044644 - 05/22/11 03:29 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: BrianJ]
flintstone Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 03/27/11
Posts: 19
Hey Starliner,I think it is areodymanic and electronic(regarding polarity protection and such)The nearest model of the original fan has cfm specs of 30 or so.The silenx weighs in at 18 cfm (11dba)It is quiet. Considering comparison,the proprietary design of the sanyo denki 9ao812L403 (cutom design to run slower)the cfm could be less than 30 or so.I suppose we are lucky enough that the motherboard connection was left intact at 12vdc.I do feel that if someone opts to go with the changeout(many choices in the quiet pc world)that they will remove the silver dollar sized chassis coin in the center to allow the of smaller hub design to remove heat efficiently.I err on the side of caution when it comes to heat and dust.Hope this perspective will help out somehow.I`m an old planeteer reinvented because of password problems combined with new email address. No big deal.It`s good to try to help. flintstone
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#1044653 - 05/22/11 05:43 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: flintstone]
Frank Griffith Offline
Planeteer/Artist # 300
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Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 12363
Loc: "All Be Quirky", NM
I thought others had used this model before,
Am I running a risk of over heating my unit or what?
I really don't have to do this, I can just move my mic out in to the adjacent hall and linen closet. It would be nice if chaging this fan out meant I could stay in the studio closer to the VS.
Thnx
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#1044698 - 05/23/11 06:46 AM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: Frank Griffith]
flintstone Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 03/27/11
Posts: 19
Hi Frank,It was recommended by HoHo.It would be good if he could let us know how its working for him.I have installed it in my machine but have not done a long session yet.flintstone
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#1044794 - 05/23/11 05:51 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: flintstone]
flintstone Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 03/27/11
Posts: 19
Went to globalspec.com and found a sanyo denki 9A0812L402.(the roland custom model is (A0812L403)According to globalspec the 402 has scfm of 23 and noise 20dba.If this model is the one that was modified for roland,we can guess that the cfm on the original fan is reduced since it was designed to run slower.If it runs slower the cfm is reduced.So,we may not be too far out of spec with the silenx ixp-52-11.They make another model that specs of 24cfm 14dba.I`m going to keep a close watch on my machine with the ixp-52-11 installed and order the other model as well.I want to have it on hand just in case.Btw,there are a lot of quiet fan companies...I am trying to guess and test my way to a quieter machine.I hope this info will help.Take care,flintstone
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#1045125 - 05/25/11 11:57 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: flintstone]
Starliner Offline
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Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2463
Loc: Florida - Dunnellon
Re: the Silenx with the 24 cfm and 14 dBA specs (Silenx IXP5214 iXtrema Pro Fan)

flintstone...Do you think maybe this one is a better alternative? It has a higher cfm rate, but I'm not sure if the extra 3 decibels are going to be a problem for most people.

Anyone... ideas on replacing the smaller HD caddy fan with a quiet one?

Starliner
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#1045145 - 05/26/11 07:19 AM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: Starliner]
flintstone Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 03/27/11
Posts: 19
Hi Starliner,I just found out that silenx has a model Ixp5411.(11dba and 24cfm)Tigerdirect has it.The Papst 252n is a quieter alternative for the hd caddy.Not sure who has those.You could try google.I have 2 caddies.I installed a mini potentiometer in the front left side of the caddy I use for mixing.I can adjust the speed and pitch of the little fan.I`m still using my machine with the 5211 installed.So far it seems fine.I need to do a long session to finally decide if it will be adequate.If not,I plan on trying the 5411.Take care,flintstone
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#1045180 - 05/26/11 11:42 AM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: flintstone]
Starliner Offline
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Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2463
Loc: Florida - Dunnellon
Here's the info I found at one source (referenced in another post) for the hard drive caddy fan. There may be others sources or models which will work.

(from Gopherelectronics.com site)

Gopher Electronics

Specs are from EBM/Papst Industries: EBM/Papst Industries

Manufacturer: EBM/Papst Industries
Model: 252N
Price: $19.95
Size: 25 x 25 x 8 mm.
Airflow: 1,9 CFM (3,2 m3/h)
Air Direction: Exhausts over struts-CCW direction seen on rotor
Hookup: AWG 28 gauge leads, TR 64, bared and tin-plated
Voltage: 12 VDC Nominal
Voltage Range: 10 to 14 VDC
Polarity: One direction, protected against reverse / lockup
SPL: 15 dBA
Bearings: Sintec sleeve
Power: 0.5 watts
RPM: 9,000
Life Expect: 40,000 hrs at 40 deg. C

------------------------------------------------
Other vendors for this fan:

252N ONLINECOMPONENTS.COM
252N MASTER DISTRIBUTORS
252N DIGI-KEY CORPORATION
252N NEWARK
252N ALLIED ELECTRONICS, INC.
252N AVNET ELECTRONICS MARKETING
252N MOUSER ELECTRONICS
252N ARROW ELECTRONICS

----------------------------------------

Starliner


Edited by Starliner (05/26/11 12:04 PM)
Edit Reason: Added URL
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#1544838 - 09/15/17 05:14 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: Starliner]
Enda_Reilly Offline
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Registered: 06/01/10
Posts: 4
Loc: Ireland
I know this is an old thread but thanks a mill for all the info. I just put a Silenx IXP5211 into my VS2480DVD. It seems to be working ok. Just need to put it through it's paces now.
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#1544862 - 09/15/17 08:20 PM Re: Any Tips on Replacing Fan in VS2480DVD model ? [Re: Enda_Reilly]
Starliner Offline
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Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2463
Loc: Florida - Dunnellon
No problem. Let us know how this fan works out for you if you can... it may help others. Thanks!

Starliner
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