Recently I stumbled across this website. In fact, the way I stumbled across it was by going a google search for Rickenbacker 4003 Firegloe, and in the midst of $1,900 and up price tags, low and behold there are some priced at $430 so curiosity got the best of me.
Anyway, check out the Rics, the Fenders, and the Gretsch’s this company is knocking off. They take patent and intellectual property infringement to a whole new level. They actually include the Rickenbacker, PRS, Fender, and Gretsch logos on the headstock…..WTF!....talk about unscrupulous business practices. Now, I’m all for replicating good products, adding your own twist to it, and selling it at a reduced price to undercut the competition, but this literally equates to intellectual rape, IMO.
I will give it to them, though, insomuch as the pics look convincing. Just at face value the Ric 4003 looks like a dead ringer. I couldn’t tell from the pics that it’s a knockoff. I read some online reviews from people brave enough and, I guess, unscrupulous enough to buy these, and they were generally positive. Change out the electronics, and they say you’ve got an instrument right on par with the real McCoy, but I just can’t get over the fact that they’re blatantly ripping off these other companies.
Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 29784
Loc: Westborough, MA, USA
There was a big article I recently read about this. There are Martin guitars out there now that have the C.F. Martin name, logos, the whole thing on it. They are made in China. And there is nothing that the real C.F. Martin Co. in Nazareth PA can do about it.
There is no such thing as patent law protection in China. There is absolutely nothing preventing Chinese manufacturers from stealing not only designs, but brand identities from reputable companies.
It appears this is one of them.
How brazen, the Gretsch White Falcon says "Made in the U.S.A." stamped in gold on the back of the headstock. Lies. Wow.
I hope we do something about this. I know we've been working on it. This is really bad though.
I can't imagine that Rickenbacker or Fender (who owns Gretsch now) will stand for it. They'll do anything and everything to protect the brands.
Maybe they'll just stop retail, sell wholesale custom shop only, like ... I don't know. Carvin.
_________________________ The internet, and the whole technology sector on which it floats, feels like a giant organ for bullshittery—for upscaling human access to speech and for amplifying lies. - Ian Bogost
Professor Truth T. Sweetness says,"Mind your manners!"
Counterfeit stuff. Huge problem these days. Fake is fake. It just gets back to all the stuff we choose to buy with no regard for the jobs lost here or the working conditions in other countries that people endure cranking stuff out. Same thing, different day. The traffic has gotten so heavy it's almost impossible to police it all.
Sad really. Everyone and his brother putting music online for free using counterfeit instruments. Then the purists out there saying stuff like...well, I have a copy of that really crappy song being played by those guys using real Fenders. So, basically, your recording is bogus and you just don't get real music when you hear it. Ha ha. Fucked up. All of it.
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Imagine your lyrics on the horizon written by a skywriter.
Registered: 09/09/00
Posts: 11757
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
These counterfeit guitars are showing up on craigslist now in Phoenix. Some of the sellers disclose that it's fake....others don't. I flag all the counterfeit guitar ads that I run across on CL. The ads don't usually last long.
But it's definitely "Buyer Beware" these days. You better know your shit when you are looking to buy a high priced used guitar these days on CL...
There was a big article I recently read about this. There are Martin guitars out there now that have the C.F. Martin name, logos, the whole thing on it. They are made in China. And there is nothing that the real C.F. Martin Co. in Nazareth PA can do about it.
There is no such thing as patent law protection in China. There is absolutely nothing preventing Chinese manufacturers from stealing not only designs, but brand identities from reputable companies.
It appears this is one of them.
How brazen, the Gretsch White Falcon says "Made in the U.S.A." stamped in gold on the back of the headstock. Lies. Wow.
I hope we do something about this. I know we've been working on it. This is really bad though.
I can't imagine that Rickenbacker or Fender (who owns Gretsch now) will stand for it. They'll do anything and everything to protect the brands.
Maybe they'll just stop retail, sell wholesale custom shop only, like ... I don't know. Carvin.
Tom, Fender bought Gretsch circa the late 90’s.
Yeah, this is a messed up affair—the fact that patent laws can’t be enforced in China. However, there is an irony to all this as well. The advent of cheap labor in Asian countries is now proving to be a double edged sward for these companies, and these knockoffs will inevitably cut into their bottom line profits.
As a Gretsch guy myself, I was pissed off when they started manufacturing the cheaper Chinese models a few years back because I feel the Gretsch name, much like the Rickenbacker name, is one that carries a certain prestige. Now, it’s been cheapened with some “Squire-like” notion of an inexpensive version of the real deal, which really is nothing like the real deal in terms of playability and sound. If you want an inexpensive version of a 6120, for example, you’d do better with an Epi Casino, a Samick hollow body, or one of the Ibenez offerings IMO. Anyway, you get my point.
To date, I’ve never purchased an instrument on line, and with possibly the exception of buying a Jay Turser violin bass online from a reputable dealer, I probably never will. This is EXACTLY the reason why.
Yeah, that struck me too as ironic—that and the “God is first in our life” declaration. Notice all the improper grammar and misspellings too. That’s a sure fire sign that the company is not on the up and up.
Man, I’d love a White Falcon and a 4003 Firegloe or any number of the other guitar designs they rip off, and I wouldn’t even mind a fake version. That’s sort of the tragedy here because I would consider buying and trying one out if it weren’t for the fact they are blatantly counterfeiting other brands. Just change the logo, for crying out loud. The only possible reason they’re doing this is to market to other unscrupulous people who’d try to sell them at the market value of the real McCoy.
Which brings me to this question: There may not currently be any laws prohibiting Chinese manufacturers from doing this sort of thing, BUT can’t a U.S. citizen be prosecuted for knowingly pawning off counterfeit goods as the real deal? I think so.
Speaking of cheap guitars, has anyone ever purchased anything form Rondo or Guitar Fetish. I’ve been watching both those companies now for a few years, and they seem reputable. I like the fact that they offer inexpensive guitars from generic manufacturers, like Agile and Xavier, while making no bones about what they actually are. People seem to like them. There are actually a lot of online reviews and Youtube reviews as well. Still, I just couldn’t bring myself to buy anything like that online without having first played it.
At some point in the next few months I will start gunning for another LP, since I sold my Gibson LP in early 07, but I’m not sold on Gibson. I’ll probably settle for a nice mahogany top from Greg Bennett/Samick or Epi. If I can find a Heritage at a reasonable price I may go that route too.
Point is there are lots of great options out there these days without having to resort to what amounts to intellectual rape. Companies like Yamaha, Cort, Samkick, Ibanez, and now some of the new brands, like Agile, all make good replicas of original models, with their own twists of course. Personally, I could give a crap about the name on the headstock…never has mattered to me very much…..All I care about is how it plays, how it sounds, how it feels, and maybe how it looks. Ironically enough, I would also care if my instrument had a counterfeit name on it because it just feels dirty. If I owned one of those “The Top Guitars” I’d have to shower every time I played it.
hello everyone kolhauszer here i just joined today i have been reading this old post and allow me to say that i myself have 3 guitars from top guitar. it started out on kijiji and i saw a beautiful 1960 les paul,a beautiful angus young tribute and a beautiful 1963 les paul sg,,from the price i knew they were replicas,,so i contacted topguitar myself..they DO IN FACT have the rights to recreate gibsons but only vintage models as well as other named brands..the woods used are impeccable quality with no SCARF MOLDINGS whatsoever.the right weight the right feel,,okay with chinese parts but the also deal with world famous names as well like wilkensen and Seymour d's..i own a les paul traditional myself and she is my goddess of forever..but this is no copyright infrigments this in indeed allowed by gibsons and other named brands....or so my investigation has led me to this knowledge..as far as i see it being in the guitar making business,i feel they have no need to lie..but thats just me.
i hope this thread is still alive btw
i mean seeing that topguitars has been in the business now since 2000,i dont see any reason for them to lie about anything.. but my 3 beauties are indeed 1 level down from the real deal..and they have so many AMAZING testimonies from so many happy clients and customers..
im not advocating theft.nor am i a spokesperson.i wouldnt know how to be 1 lol..just a bit of my take thanks all
"Cicadas have prominent eyes set wide apart, short antennae, and membranous front wings. They have an exceptionally loud song, produced not by stridulation but by vibrating drumlike tymbals rapidly. The periodic cicadas spend most of their lives as underground nymphs, only emerging most likely to reduce losses by satiating their predators."
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kel
"I love what you guys are trying to do up there" ...from an audience member at one of my gigs. Gear: Fender Medium pick
hmm lol well i have no idea what vw means..seeing that it was not explained then i see that my efforts and explanations has meant nothing..ill know better then to join next time thanks just the same
but yeah zombie thread for sure..but i felt it was my obligation to inform others that topguitar does have consent to replicate and that although nothing beats a real gibson,,and most of us would prefer to buy a real beauty,,but the ones i have from top guitars are indeed second to none
WTF?!?....since this was originally my thread from some 5 plus years ago I'm going to chime in and say this: Just because a small Chinese company like this is able to get around international trademark laws or whatever doesn't make it right, and I would never do business with a company that operated this way....it's a violation of intellectual property...If Top Guitars wants to make guitars then let them come up with their own trademarks and logos.....what they're doing is deceptive and people buying them in order to put them back out on the open market for resale to unsuspecting buyers--trying to pass them off as legitimate Gibsons, Fenders, Gretsch's, etc--are being dishonest.
I bet dollars to donuts they play and sound like shit too.....I'll take a genuine Epi or Squire any day over some cheap forgery job or any forgery job, for that matter.
Registered: 09/09/00
Posts: 11757
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
I find it very hard to believe that Gibson, Fender, and other major guitar manufacturers have given their consent to allow cheap counterfeit copies be made in China with Gibson/Fender/etc. on the headstock.
I find it very hard to believe that Gibson, Fender, and other major guitar manufacturers have given their consent to allow cheap counterfeit copies be made in China with Gibson/Fender/etc. on the headstock.
That's because that's not the truth. The truth is if they're still selling guitars with other manufacturer's logos then they're operating illegally. The only reason they haven't been shutdown is because they're operating "between the lines' of international law, probably off the coast of China somewhere....btw, I do seem to recall reading somewhere sometime back ago that they were shutdown at one point.....Are they still selling guitars with other logos?
I looked up their reviews, and it doesn't get any sketchier than this. Their top endorser is some self-important internet YouTube rapper from 2013, who praises The Top Guitars for how "great" they are but never once shows the viewer the fucking instrument.....other videos are very similar...just some nobody talking about how great the guitar is on is GoPro, but you never get a good look at the guitar itself...God forbid you ever get to hear a sound clip...In 2016 if you don't have more than that then you're full of shit!
Registered: 06/10/99
Posts: 20877
Loc: 3rd Stone From The Sun
Originally Posted By: Wish
I find it very hard to believe that Gibson, Fender, and other major guitar manufacturers have given their consent to allow cheap counterfeit copies be made in China with Gibson/Fender/etc. on the headstock.
They haven't. It's a hard fight to win on foreign territory where the morals/ethics are as low as the prices.
How did this spambot get in here?
Sorry, in my last post, I didn't read through I didn't realize this was a thread from 1962.
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MadGuitrst has left the building....but not before committing acts designed to offend the senses....
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood." - Dr. Stephen R. Covey
But then, an Epiphone is no different than these no-name imports.
Whatever floats your boat (personally, I won't buy one).
I totally understand that. What an Epiphone is now, is a copy of Gibson but a sanctioned one. Gibson has overseen the process of copying their guitars.
Same with a Squier Strat.
That concept alone might be uncomfortable for some. But for the companies, these sub lines make business sense: to have price points with the branding still intact. It's always easier to expand downward from a more prestigious respected position.
So, if you're uncomfortable with Epiphones these unlicensed copies with the respected original parent name, and no cue that they're copies..feels a bit sketchy
Edited by motown59 (03/08/1610:32 PM)
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kel
"I love what you guys are trying to do up there" ...from an audience member at one of my gigs. Gear: Fender Medium pick
Im curious to know what Gibson did with the Kramer line since they bought them out, or are they leaving them to run independently. I have a pre-gibson Kramer. Plays and sounds really nice.
okydok..my conscience is clear either way.. i guess it would not bother anyone to know that they even have a manufactering plant in arizona?..and as mentioned they also use wilkensen bridges seymour pick ups etc..they have korean plants and american ones.yes i know that china has no patent protection laws,but how can they operate in america if they did not have the rights?..and hell no..the sound coming from the topguitar les paul standard may be different then my real les paul traditional..that has burstbuckers while the standard has seymours..but the same woods used for both are equal..and the feel and the weight are equal,a guitar store owner friend of mine for the last 5 years knew that the three topguitars i got from kijiji were replicas but he was very impresed at the quality,the sounds,,the wood,,the feel everything
not trying to cause a war.. i was trying to say that they are legit..unless of course the entire website is a lie and the man i spoke to is a lier..but i feel the plant in arizona would be shut down and sued if this was indeed illegal..just saying
