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#1106918 - 02/24/12 03:04 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: FunkyBeat]
C Jo Go Offline
pseudo musician ~●¿●~
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Registered: 11/05/01
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Loc: carmel valley,ca
Our PC'a run only 4/6-- the 24/7 would had probably fried a power supply by now. They are dual fans and small cubes -Not towers.

We do have Reaper loaded -- but not connected to any I/O -looked at the SFT one time ..
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#1106929 - 02/24/12 03:50 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: C Jo Go]
DAGtunes Offline
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Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 7588
Loc: San Clemente, CA
C Jo - Just to start getting your feet wet, you really should try using Reaper in conjunction with your VS2480. That is a common setup, and the VS2480 CAN be used as a control surface via midi.

All the information for doing that is contained in the databases here at the planet. If the search function doesn't work for you, someone at the VS2480 forum will point you to it.

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#1106930 - 02/24/12 03:56 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: DAGtunes]
C Jo Go Offline
pseudo musician ~●¿●~
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Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 24148
Loc: carmel valley,ca
Thanks DAG -- Will research -- Reaper looked fairly easy to operate and the reviews are great ~! Just little snafus -- maybe I will be able to swim through with web feet

But issues like this frighten me away --setting CC's in a menu - draws no excitement for me Reaper /VS connectivity


Edited by C Jo Go*Crystal Studios* (02/24/12 08:21 PM)
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#1106962 - 02/24/12 06:06 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: Brian Roberts]
havlicek Offline
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Registered: 05/26/02
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 Quote:

What?! Since when are you not supposed to be able to mix with plugins?!. That's kind of the whole point of plugins, is it not?


Really? How many VS, Korg, Tascam etc. users are mixing with VST or DX plugins? Remember, I don't record to a "computer"? \:\) I've been saying all along that when my Akai dies (and it surely will), I may well just go to Reaper or some other PC platform.

 Quote:
And I'm not saying turn your machine on, I'm saying never turn it off and see how well it does over a week or two weeks.


Well, when you asked "do you even turn your machine on?", it sounds very much like a snarky way of asking if I record. In any case, why would I leave my machine on for weeks? and what purpose would that serve? If I were recording for hire, I still would turn it on when I needed to and turn it off when done.

See MadG's post about realworld use of computer recording systems. Trouble-free?...no way, but again tell me what system is "perfect".

-john
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#1106965 - 02/24/12 06:17 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: C Jo Go]
virtualan Offline
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Registered: 08/26/04
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....and a string just broke on my guitar

Worth noting.
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#1106982 - 02/24/12 07:25 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: havlicek]
Brian Roberts Offline
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 Originally Posted By: havlicek
 Quote:

What?! Since when are you not supposed to be able to mix with plugins?!. That's kind of the whole point of plugins, is it not?

Really? How many VS, Korg, Tascam etc. users are mixing with VST or DX plugins? Remember, I don't record to a "computer"? \:\)

OK--I think we're talking past each other here. I was responding to
 Originally Posted By: John
"I regularly do things with it that "shouldn't work", like mixing with plugins."
And I'm questioning why you would assert that mixing with plug-ins "shouldn't" work. That's what they were designed to do, irrespective of the platform (PC or VS/Korg/Tascam/or other dedicated hardware) Of course they should work--what I'm kvetching about is that while the are supposed to work, they do not always work as advertised on the platform I use which is a PC. Sometimes they work fine "out of the box." Other times they work fine until you have some other element that suddenlyl conflicts with them (be it a video driver or, incompatible software upgrade, whatever).

 Originally Posted By: more John

See MadG's post about realworld use of computer recording systems. Trouble-free?...no way, but again tell me what system is "perfect".


Well, I'm not disputing that it is widely and successfully in use--and I have no intention of giving it up myself--but I still maintain the platform is inherently unstable: load the wrong element at the wrong time or the wrong way and suddenly you have a potential ticking time-bomb that may go off when you least expect it. Strip your OS down to bare bones, load one single DAW package, never update either, never add any new hardware or other software and sure, your odds of failure decrease by an order of magnitude.

 Originally Posted By: John again

when you asked "do you even turn your machine on?", it sounds very much like a snarky way of asking if I record.

Oh, come on! I cry foul. Clearly that was intended tongue-in-cheek as was evidenced by the smilely (and Funky got it.) \:p

And now here is one last illustration: on this "high-powered" slightly over one-year-old lap top (and using IE-Exploder--haters, don't even get started) when I compose in this BBS textbox window and scroll up and then down, suddenly horizontal lines cover the text typed in the box making it virtually illegible. If I then page up and back down, viola!, the lines disappear--they're gone! (That is, until I scroll within the box again--and this only happens if I use the mousewheel--not the arrow keys or the right-hand slider.) This is due to NOTHING I have done to the OS, Internet Exploder, or anything else--it is because the software and hardware has some obscure bug somewhere that likely will NEVER be resolved (because it's just an irritation and not critical) but it is NOT SUPPOSED TO DO THAT by design.

I mean, try trouble shooting THAT by searching on something like "horizontal lines cover text in input textbox while scrolling with mouse wheel"--and see if you get any meaningful references that actually result in a "fix" in less than one hour.


Edited by Brian Roberts (02/24/12 07:33 PM)
Edit Reason: further outrage!
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#1106996 - 02/24/12 08:09 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: Brian Roberts]
C Jo Go Offline
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Hold out :: never update \:\)

Edited by C Jo Go*Crystal Studios* (02/24/12 08:14 PM)
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#1106998 - 02/24/12 08:13 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: Brian Roberts]
C Jo Go Offline
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Registered: 11/05/01
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[quote=Brian Roberts][quote=havlicek]
 Quote:

Strip your OS down to bare bones, load one single DAW package, never update either, never add any new hardware or other software and sure, your odds of failure decrease by an order of magnitude.

" .

We have been lucky with our stripped PC's --Since they are not even connected to the Net .. still no Adobe registry problems ? -- Photoshop works everyday without Adobe demanding confirmation/registry == we best never update ;\)
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#1106999 - 02/24/12 08:18 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: Brian Roberts]
C Jo Go Offline
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Registered: 11/05/01
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 Originally Posted By: Brian Roberts
[quote=havlicek]
 Quote:

What?! Since when are you not supposed to be able to mix with plugins?!. That's kind of the whole point of plugins, is it not?

Really? How many VS, Korg, Tascam etc. users are mixing with VST or DX plugins? Remember, I don't record to a "computer"? \:\)


Hey ...Still no plugins here -- all external effects.
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#1107004 - 02/24/12 10:02 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: C Jo Go]
Popmann Offline
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Registered: 05/23/02
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Alright, guys, be nice.

It's funny how these discussions digress into the same arguments. Let's go ahead and debate Mac versus PC while we're hitting on the greatest hits ;\) .

My point was really a simple one--that including a not THAT expensive analog board (in this case with built in FW interface) makes the experience SO much less of a PIA. It's actually quite a budget friendly choice, too--grand scheme of computer set ups.

$1600 gets you:

16 channels of useable preamp (better than interface pres-not as good as most stand alone units)
16 channels of EQ that are switchable to print or just monitor
Analog ZERO latency cue mix (and with enough auxes to feed several different headphone mixes)
Analog master volume to feed/mute/fold to mono you monitors
16x16 96k FW interface that you can just LEAVE on 1024 or 2048 sample buffers** to get the most from your CPU
Ability to sum in analog if desired (however, that does require recording the output to another box)

And for a self recording, overdub studio...a $400 8x2 Onyx gives a handful of channel of the above...only real "loss" is analog summing. You keep you keyboard, iPod, and a few MICS plugged in and accessible full time. I might pre the 12 channel for $600 due to the number of keys And modules I have, but...

Effectively, my point is that it addresses the cue mix, latency, and monitor control in expensively.

Are there other solutions? Sure. The Tascam 3200 is actually what is a closer direct VS replacement, though, compared with the Studio Live. But, it's more money than it, too, so...

Are there people who don't have any issue with computer recording? Sure...that obviously is not the audience for my thoughts here.

I think Mad expressed this best with his comment about starting with a four track and everything since being gravy. I, of course, am always pushing. I want every system I buy (particularly digital) to be better than the last. The Akai through a wrench in that. $2200 for a fab recorder/mixer with 13 touch sensitive 100mm faders is a lot. Even if you add the few grand in external FX I've paired with it. The MackieControl faders feel like fragile toys in comparison.

I guess I was excited to make such a positive post about computer recording...that something so simple and inexpensive as the $99 cheap ass line mixer I'm using for cue mixing now has made.

When you break it down, the facets of home recording are:

Tracking
Editing
Mixing

The first is the only place latency is an issue and a little analog mixer solves the issue. Editing, while the Akai is actually simpler and easier for the editing it DOES...computers have always offered FAR more advanced editing. I don't think anyone has ever complained about that. Mixing is the final frontier for me to conquer. It's better than the VS1680 by miles...aspects of the sound can be better than the Akai, but the summing/imaging depth is still comparatively lacking. But, if that's solved by an analog summing unit, so be it. Pisses me off that digital software mixers aren't quite up to a ten year old digital mixer, but...reality is what it is...if the solution is back to analog, then it is. it's just money, I guess.

I thought analog summing was hocus pocus. I've now heard enough comparisons to know by ear that it isn't. Is it nuance worth the money? That's wholly personal and debatable. But, I'm finally comfortable that if One combines the benefits of 96k, the individual track manipulation of vintage recreation plug ins, AND analog summing, that I will get a better sonic result than I get with the Akai. And a cheap analog cue mix BEATS the Akai definitively. I'm still on the fence about the plug in versus hardware time based FX. Nice (and expensive) plug ins have narrowed the gap, for sure. But, I own the hardware...the only challenge with continuing to use it is the cost of the analog IO needed for the computer to fully utilize it. I could sell them and use the money for plug ins...where it would be a significant spend to get the IO needed to keep using them.

But, all in all...this can be done. I'd really like to check out the Audient/Focusrite 2802. That's really an elegant solution...if it works out in practice as well as it does in theory. For less sonically picky folks, the Mackie Onyx mixers represent Similarly elegant solution-and add to it the conversion/FW interface. And at $1600 total for the Mackie 1640i versus $7-8k for the audient+16x16 interface--huge budgetary win. More in line with less "enthusiastic" home studios.



**playing live virtual instruments may be an issue

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#1107011 - 02/24/12 10:37 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: DAGtunes]
C Jo Go Offline
pseudo musician ~●¿●~
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Posts: 24148
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 Originally Posted By: DAGtunes
C Jo, I think Popmann was being facetious there. It does appear that the PreSonus units do not offer the ability to use them as a control surface.

You can find the specs here: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/StudioLive24

Look at the chart near the bottom, where it says, "Transport control: No. DAW Control: No."

If they'd have included a midi port, it could have at least been as functional as the 2480 is with Reaper...but alas, no.





THIS WORD FROM PRESONUS TODAY :: "Yes, if I understand you correctly. The automation from your DAW will work on the sound as its supposed to, and then your fader moves on the StudioLive will also affect the sound when you're mixing down as well.
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#1107018 - 02/25/12 12:34 AM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: C Jo Go]
FunkyBeat Offline
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Registered: 05/08/02
Posts: 6185
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
 Originally Posted By: C Jo Go*Crystal Studios*
THIS WORD FROM PRESONUS TODAY :: "Yes, if I understand you correctly. The automation from your DAW will work on the sound as its supposed to, and then your fader moves on the StudioLive will also affect the sound when you're mixing down as well.


Notice the people at PreSonus started off with: "Yes, if I understand you correctly."

You know why they said that? I'll bet anything it's because they read your question to themselves over and over and over trying to understand what you were asking... just like I did.

Reading their response to you, my guess is that you don't understand what they are saying back to you... but I do. They are not saying the SL is a daw controller, but I have a feeling you think that's what they are saying. If I'm wrong about that, my apologies.

CJo, like others here have already told you, the StudioLive does not do automation and is not a daw controller so I hope you'll finally stop asking that question. We are not lying to you. lol

Next, let me try to explain to you what the PreSonus folks meant.


"The automation from your DAW will work on the sound as its supposed to..."

What they are saying here is that when your daw plays back automation moves, you will HEAR the automation thru the SL because the SL is ONLY A MIXER. The SL will not be controlling the automation. It will just be a vehicle that your daw's automation will be playing through.


"...and then your fader moves on the StudioLive will also affect the sound when you're mixing down as well."

This is also correct, but what they mean is this. When your daw is playing the tracks back into the SL, you have control over the volumes of each track via the SL's channel faders because it is acting only as a mixer. So naturally, when sound is going through one of the channels and you move the fader up or down, the sound is also going to go up or down. That is the job of a mixer.

For many people, this is sufficient. For others, this is not enough. For the last time, the SL is not a daw controller. It cannot control the playback or automation of your daw. However, if you play your tracks from your daw into the SL (which is what they are talking about) then you can control the volume levels and processing in real time with the individual faders and knobs on the SL, which is pretty cool for a lot of people. For people who like to mix in "real time," using faders and knobs on a mixing board (you know, the old school way of mixing) then this is a perfect solution.
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#1107019 - 02/25/12 12:42 AM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: Popmann]
FunkyBeat Offline
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Registered: 05/08/02
Posts: 6185
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
 Originally Posted By: Popmann
Alright, guys, be nice.


Ok. I'm sorry.
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#1107020 - 02/25/12 12:53 AM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: FunkyBeat]
C Jo Go Offline
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thanks FUNKY-- just wanted to have the same functions we have been blessed with the Roland all these years. Simply be able to control /automix each channel recorded ,, send it back through the board for our final mix and output to stereo > to any outboard gear. Thats how we have always produced ..albeit no automix in the early tape days .. but you get the general idea now "old school sans mouse" ....thanks.

Edited by C Jo Go*Crystal Studios* (02/25/12 12:55 AM)
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#1107022 - 02/25/12 12:59 AM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: C Jo Go]
FunkyBeat Offline
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Registered: 05/08/02
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 Originally Posted By: C Jo Go*Crystal Studios*
thanks FUNKY-- just wanted to have the same functions we have been blessed with the Roland all these years. Simply be able to control /automix each channel recorded ,, send it back through the board for our final mix and output to stereo > to any outboard gear.


Yes. You definitely get that with the StudioLive, plus the SL comes with very nice onboard processing ON EVERY CHANNEL that you can use/mix with in real time as well.

And you're welcome. \:\)
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#1107044 - 02/25/12 06:40 AM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: Brian Roberts]
havlicek Offline
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Registered: 05/26/02
Posts: 6738
Loc: East Hampton, NY
 Quote:

OK--I think we're talking past each other here. I was responding to
Originally Posted By: John
"I regularly do things with it that "shouldn't work", like mixing with plugins."
And I'm questioning why you would assert that mixing with plug-ins "shouldn't" work.


I don't think we're "talking past each other" Brian. Again, how many people who use SIAB-type machines like the Boss, Roland, Zoom, Tascam etc. mix with VST and DX plugins? I'll give you the answer, almost none. \:\) It's really not a big thing if you have a way to stream audio between the machine and the computer (where the plugins are hosted), but there is a lot going on with the data stream as well as internally on the recorder, and it all works peachy. Yes, those plugins ARE supposed to "work", but with a computer-based recording platform, not with a standalone machine. No matter, this is really just a side aspect.

 Quote:

when you asked "do you even turn your machine on?", it sounds very much like a snarky way of asking if I record.

Oh, come on! I cry foul. Clearly that was intended tongue-in-cheek as was evidenced by the smilely (and Funky got it.) \:p


...well maybe Vince "got it", but we've all been around here long enough to know that smileys are often used as cover for sarcasm, ie: "hey, I was only kidding...I even put a smiley in there!". If I jumped the gun, I apologize and it wasn't a problem for me in any case.

As for Cjogo, he's not really shopping for a backup or eventual replacement anyway. He'll just continue to:

1)Ask about a piece of gear or a recording platform as if...
2)Continue to assert that the thing he asked about isn't going to cut it for him and that he's frightened of learning how to operate it

Honestly, there are loads of options that would easily serve the needs of the majority of folks here (myself included)in both the hardware DAW and computer DAW areas. For those rare individuals who are trying to compete in the studio-for-hire market with "the big boys", the only real options at this point are either computer-based (PC or Mac) or the tiny segment that use things like a Radar setup or even (gasp!) analog R2R, if those are even significant at this point. The stuff does indeed work and the "radio" is wall to wall with stuff produced on them.

-john
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#1107055 - 02/25/12 07:55 AM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: FunkyBeat]
Popmann Offline
Loquacious Planeteer


Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 28199
Loc: Twangville, TN
 Quote:
 Originally Posted By: C Jo Go*Crystal Studios*
thanks FUNKY-- just wanted to have the same functions we have been blessed with the Roland all these years. Simply be able to control /automix each channel recorded ,, send it back through the board for our final mix and output to stereo > to any outboard gear.


Yes. You definitely get that with the StudioLive, plus the SL comes with very nice onboard processing ON EVERY CHANNEL that you can use/mix with in real time as well.

And you're welcome.


Actually, it doesn't....he has a 2480...that has full automation and motorized faders...AND already HAS a full compliment of dynamics/eq on every channel. Not to mention that he has external FX hooked up** and needing the 2480's full 48 channel mixer for all the sync'd synths.

That's the confusion I'm trying (unsuccessfully) to clear up here. The 2480 isn't a 1680 plus 8 tracks. Different machine with different capabilities. The Tascam + computer is closer to what he's used to, In terms of function, I think.

**which could be hooked to the studioLive, but since it's not doing the mixing (if you also want it automated) it would get confusing to hook up the FX to its aux system.

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#1107057 - 02/25/12 08:08 AM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: havlicek]
Brian Roberts Offline
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Registered: 07/13/04
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Loc: The Department of Inexplicable...
 Originally Posted By: havlicek


...well maybe Vince "got it", but we've all been around here long enough to know that smileys are often used as cover for sarcasm, ie: "hey, I was only kidding...I even put a smiley in there!". If I jumped the gun, I apologize and it wasn't a problem for me in any case.
-john

John--Here is why I say we were--and are still--talking past each other. All of my comments up until that point were directed at the Windows PC platform. When I said, "are you sure you are turning your machines on?", I was specifically referring to PC-based DAWS--because up until that point the counter argument seemed to be "we have no issues with our Windows-based machines" and I thought you were echoing that chorus. I completely missed that you said you didn't use a Windows machine to record because you were (I thought) addressing/disputing my contention vis-a-vis Windows platform stability.

And just to beat a dead horse completely into glue, I probably should have phrased it; "If you've never had a lock-up, BSOD, melt-down of your Windows-based PC, are you sure you're even turning the PC on?

And to quote my favorite bombastic cartoon character, Foghorn Leghorn, That's a joke, son, that's a joke...
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#1107073 - 02/25/12 11:22 AM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: Brian Roberts]
Popmann Offline
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Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 28199
Loc: Twangville, TN
I found this morning that you can lock up Cubase by unplugging the Mackie Control with a project open. Whoops...plug it back in...never came back.

The only time I've ever needed to reboot the Mac OS? Running Logic9 but using third party instruments.

Computers hang...or crash...grand scheme, that hang this morning lost me 5min to restart and reopen the project--make the couple changes that were unsaved. It was obviously caused by something I did--now SHOULD it hang when I unplug and replug a USB device? No...but, now I know--plug that biatch in on the back...

Anyway...my objection all along is the building modular systems to so many different small manufacturers/developers thinking its all going to seamlessly work is too much to ask. But, is what it is...that's the market we have. To circle back to my rec...the less you rely on the computer to DO, the better.

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#1107083 - 02/25/12 12:08 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: Brian Roberts]
C Jo Go Offline
pseudo musician ~●¿●~
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Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 24148
Loc: carmel valley,ca
Thanks gentleman ...Yes,it can be quite frustrating at times with my threads. Especially when I don't understand the technology you may be referring me into.
I do research a multitude of forums/threads for the pro~cons of the software-hardware suggested. And then I am simply stumped in the first few paragraphs :: and have no idea what the person has offered, as a solution to the problems. Just too many years in the dark ages with the Roland.

But, I do take all your suggestions as the bible truth :0

Gawd just the hours it would take to transfer clients work over to a PC




Edited by C Jo Go*Crystal Studios* (02/26/12 11:56 AM)
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#1107084 - 02/25/12 12:10 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: Popmann]
C Jo Go Offline
pseudo musician ~●¿●~
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Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 24148
Loc: carmel valley,ca
 Originally Posted By: Popmann
To circle back to my rec...the less you rely on the computer to DO, the better.


AMEN
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#1107096 - 02/25/12 12:59 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: C Jo Go]
Popmann Offline
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Registered: 05/23/02
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I still think with your situation...just wanting better file management, that there would be some way to offer that to SCSI attached or VirDis or something.

I use my PC as a backup solution for the Akai. Granted, the USB import/export/backup was one of the selling points of the unit for me, in the day--I actually didn't buy UNTIL they have implemented it with an OS update.

I would also wonder how much this is REALLY an issue. I mean...how hard is it to keep backups filed appropriately? It's not like Windows search functionality is very powerful. You do know that these apps, you're going to have to be VERY anal retentive about channel naming prior to recording, or retroactive renaming in order to search for things, right? Other than the main project.

I, long ago, sat down and developed a folder structure for backups...I'll be glad to share...but, you should only have to add an additional level--of "client name". And, if keeping discs, I've told you before your answer is a spread sheet that documents client names/dates/what disc it's on.

My understanding is that you're completely happy with the 2480(s) except for backup file management. I still think that's an AWFUL reason to switch platforms. If absolutely nothing else, buy a ton of (now) cheap SCSI discs and make the clients buy their own disc. ClientX is due in ten minutes? Shut the machine down...attach ClientX's disc...boot up. Ready to go with everything they've ever done at the studio.

...and if this is a once every 6 months occurrence...just curse the file management and get it done.

I actually WANT improvements...

-96k
-Waves Vintage plug EQs and compressors (and Slate VCC)
-screaming fast import/export/YouSendIt of the computer doing work for hire
-the ability to apply processing to the busses (a weakness of the Akai-but at least it HAS busses ;\) )
-ability to insert my hardware EQ and Compressors into the channels with full IO compensation-click mouse, turn analog gear knobs--render to audio.
-ability to have loop recording autogenerate takes, then easily comp'd
-the lifting of the 24 track maximum (ability to handle mixing whatever a client sends my way)
-build the machine with enough great sounding ANALOG IO that whatever gear I want to hook up in the future, I will do so via analog interconnect.

I want these things without having to lose the imaging and depth of the Akai...the sense of space and overall mix friendly sound of the KSP8/PCM91/Q2 FX...or the solid, stable cue mix for tracking...or the physical control (which it turns out makes a big difference in fidelity for me--because I make different choices with more granular 100mm faders than a picture of a fader with a mouse.

AND...the Akai's are rare (relative to a 2480) and (major) parts at the authorized repair center are gone.

If all you want, which you've said before, is a better way to organize backups...I think you should really be asking about THOSE solutions rather than looking to a new platform.

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#1107104 - 02/25/12 01:38 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: Popmann]
FunkyBeat Offline
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Registered: 05/08/02
Posts: 6185
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
 Originally Posted By: Popmann
 Quote:
 Originally Posted By: C Jo Go*Crystal Studios*
thanks FUNKY-- just wanted to have the same functions we have been blessed with the Roland all these years. Simply be able to control /automix each channel recorded ,, send it back through the board for our final mix and output to stereo > to any outboard gear.


Yes. You definitely get that with the StudioLive, plus the SL comes with very nice onboard processing ON EVERY CHANNEL that you can use/mix with in real time as well.

And you're welcome.


Actually, it doesn't....he has a 2480...that has full automation and motorized faders...AND already HAS a full compliment of dynamics/eq on every channel. Not to mention that he has external FX hooked up** and needing the 2480's full 48 channel mixer for all the sync'd synths.



If you re-read what CJo asked for which was:

"Simply be able to control /automix each channel recorded ,, send it back through the board for our final mix and output to stereo > to any outboard gear."

Then I am still correct. He does get that ability with the StudioLive albeit he has to connect it to a computer via firewire and learn how to use a daw.

Of course the SL cannot do it alone, but I didn't think I needed to point that out because I have been saying here over and over that the SL is only a mixer.
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#1107105 - 02/25/12 01:41 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: FunkyBeat]
GAMBLE Offline
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Registered: 02/22/04
Posts: 18894
I just wanted to mention that I didn't read any of this.
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#1107114 - 02/25/12 02:30 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: GAMBLE]
gonzo Offline
purveyor of noise
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Registered: 08/16/99
Posts: 28062
Loc: SL.UT
then what's the point?
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#1107140 - 02/25/12 04:16 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: gonzo]
Popmann Offline
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Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 28199
Loc: Twangville, TN
Gamble is the coolest.
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#1107153 - 02/25/12 05:01 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: GAMBLE]
C Jo Go Offline
pseudo musician ~●¿●~
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Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 24148
Loc: carmel valley,ca
 Originally Posted By: GAMBLE
I just wanted to mention that I didn't read any of this.

I don't even remember adding to the fodder \:\)
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#1107160 - 02/25/12 05:37 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: Popmann]
C Jo Go Offline
pseudo musician ~●¿●~
Planeteer


Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 24148
Loc: carmel valley,ca
 Originally Posted By: Popmann

I would also wonder how much this is REALLY an issue. I mean...how hard is it to keep backups filed appropriately? It's not like Windows search functionality is very powerful. You do know that these apps, you're going to have to be VERY anal retentive about channel naming prior to recording, or retroactive renaming in order to search for things, right? Other than the main project.


My understanding is that you're completely happy with the 2480(s) except for backup file management. I still think that's an AWFUL reason to switch platforms. If absolutely nothing else, buy a ton of (now) cheap SCSI discs and make the clients buy their own disc. ClientX is due in ten minutes? Shut the machine down...attach ClientX's disc...boot up. Ready to go with everything they've ever done at the studio.


-


Very happy with the Roland. But try typing a search on the VS. Or simply go to the top of your files in your VS HD > & select VIEW (ala WIN) > by date or name :-] Notta there.
We have clients that come in every 6-9 months to listen & make some changes -- not an easy task to find them on a partition.

The files seem to have a mind of their own -- kind of fall where they want in the partition Certainly not by date or alphabetized .


[A personal client HD's]
These days it is also almost impossible to find the caddies for the externals .. ( We have 5 ) SO those drives fill up = and we have to store on DVD.


 Quote:
Not to mention that he has external FX hooked up** and needing the 2480's full 48 channel mixer for all the sync'd synths.


The most difficult part in our "system" is that midi data that is not actually recorded to the VS. We have to retrieve the 16 channel sequence from the Kurzweil FD's and sync back up for editing. At least the VS has instant recall of the 16 inputs




Edited by C Jo Go*Crystal Studios* (02/26/12 11:58 AM)
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#1107178 - 02/25/12 06:28 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: C Jo Go]
Popmann Offline
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Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 28199
Loc: Twangville, TN
Ah...you really need to hire me. ;\) my midi is done not in the Akai. My lyrics are typed in Word. Still, I can find you any PART in minutes. Due to the nature of the beast, it takes a while to restore the whole DPS24 project...but, I don't really do that--I back up the tracks themselves separately. That can be brought in the Akai or Cubase in minutes.

That's what I'm telling you. This is a matter of backup design and management. Maybe I take for granted that I do have a hand in our thousands of servers spread over 3 data centers...at work.

Here's what I mean. I hear you say "try typing search"...what are you looking for? I don't type search on a PC or server unless I'm looking for something someone ELSE put away, usually trusting them and searching based on contained keywords. None of the above applies to music projects.

You only have 5 drives of data to catalog? How many 2gb partitions is that? And DVDs? Even easier. You need a cheap label maker...or a big disc notebook with a log.

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#1107179 - 02/25/12 06:31 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: Popmann]
Popmann Offline
Loquacious Planeteer


Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 28199
Loc: Twangville, TN
I'd be willing to bet, btw, that you can create floppy images...although, I thought Kurz just used PC/DOS format...probably just keep the files ona computer. Put it on a floppy as needed.

You need someone to help you think like an IT guy. ;\)

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#1107193 - 02/25/12 06:50 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: Popmann]
C Jo Go Offline
pseudo musician ~●¿●~
Planeteer


Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 24148
Loc: carmel valley,ca
Yeah a little problem with that floppy thing .. has to retain that .KRZ extension - &- the standard DOS abbreviations,,, Did find a USB to Floppy adaptor. Just have to make sure there are no changes from the PC back to the FD -- to upload the data to the Kurzweil.

You have to remember :: your AKAi has a USB -- ready to send to a PC file. Mine would require this VIRDis hardware -- transfer the first 24 channels RBUS (maybe 8 at a time ?) then have to record the next 16 channels from the Kurz to virtual tracks on the VS -- then dump them that could make one dizzy. Even an experienced IT would shudder ....


Edited by C Jo Go*Crystal Studios* (02/25/12 06:51 PM)
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#1107198 - 02/25/12 07:04 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: Popmann]
C Jo Go Offline
pseudo musician ~●¿●~
Planeteer


Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 24148
Loc: carmel valley,ca
 Originally Posted By: Popmann

That's what I'm telling you. This is a matter of backup design and management.
Here's what I mean. I hear you say "try typing search"...what are you looking for? I don't type search on a PC or server unless I'm looking for something someone ELSE put away, usually trusting them and searching based on contained keywords. None of the above applies to music projects.



NO really good with management in my PC -- we have 6 Terabytes for AVi and large photos with our 2 PC's -- So yes ~~ very tediously managed files , no need to search. If we could simply place a Folder Title in the VS Partitions & then drag /drop the latest project file into a specific > at the end of a weeks session.
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#1107200 - 02/25/12 07:09 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: Popmann]
C Jo Go Offline
pseudo musician ~●¿●~
Planeteer


Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 24148
Loc: carmel valley,ca
 Originally Posted By: Popmann


You only have 5 drives of data to catalog? How many 2gb partitions is that? And DVDs? Even easier. You need a cheap label maker...or a big disc notebook with a log.


Thats 5 80gb drives > 10+ partitions each...
Have tall cabinets ~ with separate file boxes ~ filled with our clients FD /DVD backups --final mixes --etc....(even backups from our AKAI DR4a digital days & 1/2 8tracks)


Edited by C Jo Go*Crystal Studios* (02/26/12 11:44 AM)
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#1107201 - 02/25/12 07:16 PM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: Popmann]
C Jo Go Offline
pseudo musician ~●¿●~
Planeteer


Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 24148
Loc: carmel valley,ca
 Originally Posted By: Popmann
Ah...you really need to hire me.

Naw :: you would make us buy some new-fangled WIN 7 machine with every I/O box known \:D & put it right next to our VS --

No seriously > just need someone who has ironed out all the bugs with software/hardware related constitutions --- interfaced Reaper to a perfection... & at one time ~ owned a 2480 !



Edited by C Jo Go*Crystal Studios* (02/26/12 09:39 PM)
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#1107495 - 02/27/12 09:38 AM Re: The answer to computer recording... [Re: C Jo Go]
gonzo Offline
purveyor of noise
Loquacious Planeteer


Registered: 08/16/99
Posts: 28062
Loc: SL.UT
like i've already said.....
ad naseum.

going from a 880ex (which i loved) to a VS-1880 (which i loved)....

i found a new love in sonar professional edition and a win xp setup on a pc.


that setup, left everything i did with the VS machines back in the stone age.

i just record.

i don't deal with bugs and/or whatever.


i've used reaper, but prefer Sonar.

for me, it's a no brainer.

i lost data on my vs...
i had glitches with the hard drive...
i had glitches with running backup discs......
and it was incredibly slow.


i did a back up of all the data for my last album, on a thumbdrive, and it took 55 seconds.
then i backed it up again, onto an external TB harddrive, and no problems.

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