#1125782 - 05/25/12 10:16 PM
VS8f-2 versus VS8f-3
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TreeDragon7
Planeteer
Registered: 12/03/11
Posts: 355
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The VS8f-2 that i have in my 1880 is satifactory for an effects unit most of the time for me. The reverbs are alright. Emulations could be better. Alot of tweaking with them seems needed to get realness from them sometimes. Some effects are just too thin or tinny and not organic-analog enough in my opinion.
I am thinking about buying a VS8f-3 card to upgrade what i have now. Are the effects that are built into it much better than the VS8f-2 ? I know this is a matter of taste really but can someone describe what is better about the new presets and even what is improved on upon these with any of the plugins that can be integrated ?
The price of a VS8f-3 is still high these days. More than a used 1824cd in many cases. Tell me more info if you can.
Ryan
Edited by TreeDragon7 (05/25/12 10:25 PM)
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#1125901 - 05/26/12 01:53 PM
Re: VS8f-2 versus VS8f-3
[Re: uptildawn]
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TreeDragon7
Planeteer
Registered: 12/03/11
Posts: 355
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if they beconing harder to come by then some people are probably keeping them. I still have not heard a demo if it. If anyone out there wants to seel theirs then let me know
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#1125999 - 05/27/12 02:57 AM
Re: VS8f-2 versus VS8f-3
[Re: uptildawn]
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headwerkn2
Planeteer
Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 638
Loc: The Countryside, Tasmania
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1- The copy protection scheme for those cards and effects is insanely complex and restrictive... especially when it comes time to upgrade your VS (changing the ide drive, swapping cards, etc.)
Very true... along with Emagic Logic's XSkey, it's arguably one of the few copy protection schemes never hacked. The VS's obscurity probably has helped in that respect though.
2- You are required to give over one partition on your ide drive to the use of the effects plug-ins.
Dunno about that - I have (well, had) 6 plugins installed on my VS2400CD and didn't lose any of the partitions on the standard 40GB HD. The plugins themselves are only 1-3Mb in size each - they don't take up much in the way of HD space.
3- You simply MUST keep a verifiably playable backup disc of the plug-ins in case you should ever need to, or accidentally, re-initialize your hard drive in order to re-install them afterwards.
This is true, though running backups isn't particularly hard as the option is provided directly within the VS OS. The need for backups is fuelled mostly because the VS CD format is a CD-R format, rather than a stamped/pressed CD format, and thus no one's really confident in how long the discs will last before they degrade to the point of unsuitability (CD-Rs use dyes that deteriorate over time). It would be nice if the VS CD format could be properly imaged onto a PC so digital backups could be kept on a HD, etc. but no one appears to have achieved that.
4- They still cost a LOT
5- They are getting harder to come by every day.
Very true, though they still come up for sale and occasionally someone sells a decent plugin library that's keyed to a -3 card. Like... er I'm doing right now! *shameless plug*. I've currently got a key'd -3 card plus Autotune, UA 1176VS, UA LA2A, Massenburg EQ, SoundToyz SoundBlender, Chrometone Amp, TC 3000 Reverb and the 5 included Roland plugins up for sale for AU$1000. About a month ago a similar set (with TRacksVS instead of Chrometone) went for AU$1690 on eBay, so personally I think it is a pretty darn reasonable deal. I also have a non-keyed VS8F-3 card I'd take AU$400 for, and the VS2400CD for $800, if you're interested....
While Roland kinda dropped the ball on the VS plugin system not long after it came out - some plugins planned were never released, as it was obvious that by 2005 Roland weren't going to continue to invest in the platform - it was a unique selling point for the VS recorders (Akai could never figure their shit out with the DPS recorders) and one that adds an awful lot of tonal flexibility to the 'in the box' capabilities of the unit. It would have been great if Roland could have convinced a few other players to release plugins, but at least with what DID get released, they managed to cover all bases.
The Universal Audio 1176 and LA2A are great sounding compressors, far better than the channel strip ones built in; Sound on Sound reckoned the 1176 was so close to a simulation of a real 1176 it justified buying the -3 card and plugin on its own. It's been so long since I heard a real 1176 I can't really comment, but it does sound good. The LA2A is awesome on vocals, especially when it comes to making peaky tracks "sit properly". The Massy EQ works fantastically well, SoundBlender is like having an Eventide H3000 processor at your fingertips and does some really great modulation, delay and pitch effects (my fav plugin), ChromeTone is not only good as a guitar amp sim, but also a general distortion box for thickening or edging up other signals (I like it on drums, especially room mics or on a parallel compression track pair). The TC Reverb is a big step up from the -2 card's reverb programs - bigger, cleaner and less "digital cheesy". Even the Roland plugins - Vocal Channel, Mastering Toolkit, Stereo Reverb, etc. - sound noticeably better than the -2 card.
About the only advantage I can think of the -2 cards (other than price) is that if you don't have one installed on a VS24x0 unit you lose the spectrum analyser and, in the case of the 2400CD, the RSS 3D Panning option. I never missed the latter, but planned on getting a hardware unit to replace the former.
For a grand you could definitely go out and buy a few hardware processors; you'd probably cover the reverbs, delays and modulations to an equivalent quality level, but I doubt you'd cover the compressors, EQ or amp sim. Or Autotune for that matter. Plus you'd need enough I/O to loop them in, which in most cases would require extra hardware like a DIFAT24 to fully utilise an RBUS port. The fact that the software plugins are contained within 'the box' itself is extremely useful if you haul your VS about a bit (which I did once upon a time).
Anyway, something to consider. I thought the plugins were a great addition to my VS2400CD setup and gave a helluva lot of flexibility when it came to mixing. The only reason I'm selling them is because I'm selling the VS2400CD too (shifting away from engineering in favour of songwriting, and I need the money!).
Cheers, Ben.
_________________________
Back to analog, gentlemen... Tascam 688, Teac A3440S, Teac 2A, Teac MB20, Akai X-160D, Teac A-350
Currently seeking - Teac 5A and 5EX mixer, Revox C270/C278 or Otari 5050-2 and 5050-8 track RTR decks - Please PM!
Digital stuff... Digi001, Mbox 2 Mini, Protools, Logic, iPad 3.
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#1126005 - 05/27/12 03:13 AM
Re: VS8f-2 versus VS8f-3
[Re: headwerkn2]
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headwerkn2
Planeteer
Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 638
Loc: The Countryside, Tasmania
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Something else worth mentioning that I forgot earlier:
The VS8F-3 plugins are a LOT easier to use than the VS8F-2 algorithms. The -2 patches have a very basic and low rent parameter display (on both LCD and VGA outputs) usually spread across several 'pages' that can be a bit confusing at times to wade through.
The -3 plugins all mimic hardware units (to some extent) and thus are far more obvious in their functions. On the VGA screen all functions are on a single page.... on the LCD screen some break across 2-3 pages, but again, the functions are far more obvious and easier to use.
Cheers, Ben.
_________________________
Back to analog, gentlemen... Tascam 688, Teac A3440S, Teac 2A, Teac MB20, Akai X-160D, Teac A-350
Currently seeking - Teac 5A and 5EX mixer, Revox C270/C278 or Otari 5050-2 and 5050-8 track RTR decks - Please PM!
Digital stuff... Digi001, Mbox 2 Mini, Protools, Logic, iPad 3.
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#1126020 - 05/27/12 04:58 AM
Re: VS8f-2 versus VS8f-3
[Re: headwerkn2]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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Really great points, Ben.... and I appreciate the clarifications to the points I made.
I'm confused about the bit about the partition being given over to the plug-ins' use though. Maybe it was different when using with the 1680/1880, which were still around when those 3 cards first came out. That's one of the big reasons I didn't buy into them..... because the documentation said something about the loss of a partition on the ide drive. I don't recall the details anymore.
Maybe I've remembered it incorrectly all this time... I hope so for the sake of anyone that wants to install a 3 card on a 1680, or 1880. I can't find anything in my backup files that says anything about the subject, other than that the update proceedure will have to erase everything on the hard drive (which none of the previous updates had ever required).
I guess I'll have to drop that objection from my list in the future, since I can no longer verify the claim.
_________________________
uptildawn
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#1130398 - 06/12/12 09:19 PM
Re: VS8f-2 versus VS8f-3
[Re: uptildawn]
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TreeDragon7
Planeteer
Registered: 12/03/11
Posts: 355
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I am looking for a VS8F-3 to buy. They are expensive with or without the plugins so i'm kind of wanting just the hardware for now. If you or someone you know may be willing to sell one at a good price then let me know
thanks, Ryan Almond
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