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#1191644 - 01/16/13 03:37 PM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: bear]
JazAddict Offline
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Midi via rbus was Brilliant.
So the adat pc interface would need to carry midi as well.... Otherwise, what's gained from moving the midi cables outta the 2480 only to need Em in the Box u make? My hope was to remove my silly usb midi interface and driver from the pc.
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#1191673 - 01/16/13 04:40 PM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: JazAddict]
bear Offline
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Plugging an ADAT adapter with MIDI into a 2480 or a VSR880 or a VS2400 probably does not gain you much... the only use for MIDI on these devices is SYNC, and you cannot really use more than one MIDI port anyway, might as well just use the one on the DIN connectors already built in to these units.

If you hook up on of these recorders to an RPC-1 in a PC through a straight RBUS cable the MIDI function DOES make sense - you can use the RBUS for sync without extra cables or other MIDI interface in the PC

BUT - if you hook up a RBUS/ADAT converter with MIDI to a RPC-1 card it DOES make sense - you can use it as a normal PC MIDI port for anything, along with the ADAT audio - you basically get a MIDI port for free since the RPC-1 drivers support the midi port.

It IS physically possible to send MIDI through the optical lightpipe along with 8 channels of AUDIO....but I do not know of any ADAT interfaces that allow you to tap into this channel, either with a driver in the PC or out of connectors.. Maybe there is one somewhere.

Looking at the DIF-AT schematic from the link PTR posted - it actually DOES hook up the MIDI OUT to the lightpipe in parallel to sending it out the DIN5... but I do not know what you do with it at the other end.

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#1191736 - 01/16/13 08:45 PM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: bear]
JazAddict Offline
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Those RPC drivers do not support the midi to/from the RPC....not anymore...not in w7/64.....unless u can tell me how. That's what I was hoping your project would resserect.
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#1191768 - 01/16/13 10:21 PM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: JazAddict]
bear Offline
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I do not have a box with PCI slots that runs WIN7... the only win7 machine I have is my asus laptop, so I cannot really try it.

On my XP machines - both SP2 and SP3 - the RPC-1 midi port shows up just fine as a system MIDI device.

I can pick it in Reaper or any other DAW as a MIDI port.

Have you tried latest drivers from M-AUDIO? I do not think the roland drivers are even meant for WIN7 - especially x64. I am surprised they work at all.

How are you running drivers? In some compatibility mode?

EDIT -

Skimming around the web - consensus I see is RPC-1 MIDI does not work for anyone on x64 WIN7 - people do say M-AUDO driver does work for audio, although some people were having trouble with getting the machine to shut down correctly with some special tricks...


Edited by bear (01/16/13 10:47 PM)

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#1192438 - 01/19/13 10:16 AM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: bear]
JazAddict Offline
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I can confirm all of the things in your previous paragraph. The trick to getting windows are shut down was simple and fast, and the audio works great although I can't seem to get to RPC or M Audio Delta our bus cards to sync together.
I'm going to be tearing the studio down this week and packing to move. When I rebuild I'm thinking seriously about loading windows 32 and trying 2get the are best MIDI working again. I have enjoyed Windows 7, but I'm not sure that the performance improvement is so much more important than the functionality of MIDI over our bus that I enjoyed.
That's why I'm pounding on u to get midi integrated.... Really think its a cool thing and wanna test sync and control surface capabilities.
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#1192475 - 01/19/13 01:14 PM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: JazAddict]
bear Offline
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 Originally Posted By: JazAddict
...That's why I'm pounding on u to get midi integrated.... Really think its a cool thing and wanna test sync and control surface capabilities....


You are not understanding the problem.... I can put MIDI on the ADAT optical interface IC easily - the interface chip has a pin defined to do just that... but there is no hardware on the PC end that allows access to this MIDI data that I know of.

Building my own PC side ADAT interface that talks through USB or something, and that interfaces with ASIO drivers and MIDI drivers and such is WAY beyond where I want to go.

If you can find a commercially available PC ADAT interface that strips the MIDI data out of the optical data stream, and gives you access to it, let me know - I sure haven't seen any.

And if you just going to hook up to a normal PC midi port on DIN connectors, you might as well use the DIN connectors on the 2480 and blow off the midi port on the RBUS

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#1192557 - 01/19/13 07:16 PM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: bear]
JazAddict Offline
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Yes...ur right...I don't get it... actually I do now...the adat side is the only one touching the PC. I'm just blinded by my broken heart over the rbus midi absence from W7
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#1194926 - 01/28/13 06:33 PM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: bear]
Ptr Offline
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Registered: 01/03/05
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 Originally Posted By: bear
Hmmmm the SI-24 is a WEIRD beast... I have owned a couple of VM3100s in the past, and thought the SI-24 was just a better but similar unit. But it is absolutely not.

Basically it seems to be a 8 channel ANALOG<->RBUS adapter, and a separate totally bizarre MIDI control surface....

The controls and faders do NOTHING to the audio passing through, just send off the wall midi messages...



Hmm, I had thought adding a SI-24 to say a VSR-880 would make a nice combo with mic-preamps, but it sure seems the SI-24 is more intended to team up with the RPC-1 for computer-based recording.

And the 15V phantom (not 48V) is a pity as well. Did you have any fun yet with the motorized faders ?

I assume it'll work with recorders (and why shouldn't it), not just computers, but it might make less sense... and at close to 5kg for just the SI-24 there might be more portable ways of adding mic-preamps...

Regards
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#1194938 - 01/28/13 07:42 PM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: Ptr]
bear Offline
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The SI-24 paired with a VS machine - especially a VS2400 - is a real nice combo - there is built in mode in the 2400 (maybe in the 2480 also) that allows the MIDI control surface protocol stuff to work in bi-directional mode automatically....

I have been busy with real work, haven't had time to continue my MIDI adventures with it

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#1195356 - 01/30/13 07:17 AM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: bear]
Ptr Offline
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Registered: 01/03/05
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Loc: the Netherlands
Thanks for the feedback. I'll have a deeper look in the SI-24 docs to see what it could bring to a VSR-880.

Seems like a nice add-on, but it should bring more to the table* than adding an ADA8000 (which I already own) + R-BUS/ADAT-converter-box (upcoming, see other thread...) The moving faders are attractive though...

Talking about table & table-area it consumes, I'm curious to the construction, it's metal & solid & chunky, right ?

Regards
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#1195377 - 01/30/13 10:04 AM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: Ptr]
Starliner Offline
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Registered: 05/19/09
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Loc: Florida - Dunnellon
Roland SI-24: 17 9/16" Wide X 12 7/8" Deep X 4 1/8" High
446.0 mm Wide X 326 mm Deep X 103 mm High
Weight: 408 kg (10 lbs., 10 oz.)

Metal and plastic construction, seems sturdy to me.
Edit: Has connectors on top and rear, if cable space is an issue.

Starliner


Edited by Starliner (01/30/13 10:09 AM)
Edit Reason: Addition
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#1195383 - 01/30/13 10:19 AM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: Starliner]
Ptr Offline
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Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 260
Loc: the Netherlands
 Originally Posted By: Starliner
Roland SI-24: 17 9/16" Wide X 12 7/8" Deep X 4 1/8" High
446.0 mm Wide X 326 mm Deep X 103 mm High
Weight: 408 kg (10 lbs., 10 oz.)

Metal and plastic construction, seems sturdy to me.
Edit: Has connectors on top and rear, if cable space is an issue.

Starliner


At 408 kg that's solid indeed, thanks ! :-) (sorry, couldn't resist spotting a skipped dot)

Is the top-panel metal I understand ?

Regards
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#1195390 - 01/30/13 10:27 AM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: Ptr]
Starliner Offline
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Registered: 05/19/09
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Loc: Florida - Dunnellon
Oops! 4.8 kg (that pesky dot escaped me and switched to a zero!)

The top panel is sheet metal (probably over plastic), and the end panels are plastic.

Starliner
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#1197271 - 02/06/13 05:11 PM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: Starliner]
Ptr Offline
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Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 260
Loc: the Netherlands
Hi, Thanks for the info
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#1200098 - 02/18/13 06:52 PM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: Ptr]
bear Offline
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Registered: 10/25/99
Posts: 6223
Loc: abq,nm,usa
Well I was bored.... I went ahead and did a PCB design for a RBUS/ADAT convertor

A little different from the original schematic, mostly to make it work in the form factor of a dongle... I brought out the raw MIDI signals to a terminal block - if somebody wanted to use them they could hook up to second board with DIN connectors and optoisolator to make it real MIDI. Also brought out 5V and ground on the same terminal block which will allow external power supply if needed (for instance if used with the SI-24)

Board size is 1.5 x 2.0 inch

I'm going to send it in to my board fab shop for a real quote - depending on the actual cost, we will see if I continue...

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#1200100 - 02/18/13 07:09 PM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: bear]
Frank Griffith Offline
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Registered: 03/09/05
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Nice, good job.
Good luck.
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#1200118 - 02/18/13 10:20 PM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: Frank Griffith]
uptildawn Offline
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Registered: 12/15/01
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That IS pretty cool, bear!
Beats the hell out of the magic marker and acetone boards I used to make! \:\)

Or whatever that was I used to use to etch boards with...


Edited by uptildawn (02/18/13 10:22 PM)
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#1200156 - 02/19/13 05:24 AM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: uptildawn]
Ptr Offline
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Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 260
Loc: the Netherlands
Nice ! (repeat 880 times ;-) )

You're using standalone inverters ? Haven't done much with SMD (hobbywise); I wasn't aware these exist.

The DB25 is to be connected with wiring or is there a connector compatible with soldering directly to the PCB ? (perhaps you skipped that deliberately for more mechanical robustness)

Best regards


Edited by Ptr (02/19/13 05:25 AM)
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#1200194 - 02/19/13 09:44 AM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: Ptr]
bear Offline
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Registered: 10/25/99
Posts: 6223
Loc: abq,nm,usa
Almost all logic gates from several different logic families are available in single gate packages these days.. this design will use 74AHC1G14. It made routing on the board cleaner.

Surface mount is the only way to go for something this size...

In real work I pay for a manufacturing house to build surface mount boards, but I want to try this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xqv9HF_2GlY

I am going to sandwich the board in between the pins of a connector like this to make a dongle form factor



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#1200196 - 02/19/13 09:58 AM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: bear]
Ptr Offline
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Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 260
Loc: the Netherlands
 Originally Posted By: bear
Almost all logic gates from several different logic families are available in single gate packages these days.. this design will use 74AHC1G14. It made routing on the board cleaner.


I've must have been living under quite some rocks... it's ASICs during the day (so we 'pull' all smaller stuff inside & rarely need glue logic, but that doesn't mean I should have ignored the 'simpler' stuff:
( http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/74AHC_AHCT1G14.pdf )


 Quote:
Surface mount is the only way to go for something this size...


Fully agreed. I was thinking about some half-rack size (for the Veroboard route, like your prototype), but if etched PCBs for this turn out to be interesting (quote-wise) then it'd be silly to keep following the Vero-route.


 Quote:
In real work I pay for a manufacturing house to build surface mount boards, but I want to try this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xqv9HF_2GlY



I figure this nice project should also here be a good trigger for this kind of assembly :-)

 Quote:
I am going to sandwich the board in between the pins of a connector like this to make a dongle form factor


I see! As it happens I just recently ran into a couple of short RBUS-cables for a decent price, so the dongle format not a hard requirement - but if it can be a dongle, sure why not.

Best regards (& please let us know when you've heard more about the quote)

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#1200202 - 02/19/13 10:23 AM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: Ptr]
bear Offline
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Registered: 10/25/99
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Loc: abq,nm,usa
Here is a picture of an old cubase dongle to show what I mean about sandwiching the board in between the pins of a solder cup db25


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#1200205 - 02/19/13 10:32 AM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: bear]
bear Offline
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Registered: 10/25/99
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BTW - RE. cheap RBUS cables - you can make an RBUS cable simply with 2 crimp on db25 and a short piece of 25 conductor ribbon cable

Just crimp the second connector on 180 degrees off of the first, and viola! it is an rbus cable.

Or take 2 solder pot connectors like shown above and just solder them together back to back... that is all this guy is doing

http://www.ebay.com/itm/R-BUS-to-Paralle...=item1c2fde2e55

Of course if you are building your own circuit you can just flip all the signal on the unit so a normal DB25 straight through cable can be used (or a dongle plugged straight in)- which is what my original schematic did.

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#1200207 - 02/19/13 10:34 AM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: bear]
Ptr Offline
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Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 260
Loc: the Netherlands
 Originally Posted By: bear
Here is a picture of an old cubase dongle to show what I mean about sandwiching the board in between the pins of a solder cup db25


Nice method
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#1200209 - 02/19/13 10:38 AM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: bear]
Ptr Offline
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Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 260
Loc: the Netherlands
 Originally Posted By: bear
BTW - RE. cheap RBUS cables - you can make an RBUS cable simply with 2 crimp on db25 and a short piece of 25 conductor ribbon cable

Just crimp the second connector on 180 degrees off of the first, and viola! it is an rbus cable.

Of course if you are building your own circuit you can just flip all the signal on the unit so a normal DB25 straight through cable can be used (or a dongle plugged straight in)- which is what m,y original schematic die.


Fully agreed, it makes more sense to DIY them than to search and/or pay too much. These just happened to pop up here at the right time & price, so I bought them.
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#1200273 - 02/19/13 02:52 PM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: Ptr]
Starliner Offline
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Registered: 05/19/09
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Lookin' good Bear!

Hope the board costs are low enough to make it worth your time.

Starliner
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#1200432 - 02/20/13 03:27 AM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: Starliner]
tommy2 Offline
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Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 24
Hi,

Is it difficult to modify the DIF-AT box to AT24 box?

Thanks, Tom

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#1200434 - 02/20/13 04:20 AM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: tommy2]
Artean Offline
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Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 35
I would too be interested in a rbus-adat interface adapter dongle thingy is the price is keept reasonable. My Focusrite Saphire DSP24 pro has an ADAT in connector, which would allow me to get 8 tracks audio from the vs2480 to Cubase. To bad there's no ADAT out though; but I can live with that...
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#1200456 - 02/20/13 08:21 AM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: tommy2]
tommy2 Offline
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Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 24
 Originally Posted By: tommy2
Hi,

Is it difficult to modify the DIF-AT box to AT24 box?

Thanks, Tom




I`m asking this, because some says DIF-AT supports only 20 bits of Adat and DIF-AT24 24 bits.

So, maybe "Bear" can answer me.

Thanks

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#1200471 - 02/20/13 09:47 AM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: tommy2]
bear Offline
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Registered: 10/25/99
Posts: 6223
Loc: abq,nm,usa
I do not know what circuit is in a DIF-AT. The DF-AT24 just uses the same Wavefront ICs that I am using in my circuit, which are automatically 24 bit. Since the DIF-AT is not 24bit it must be doing something different, but I really do not know what it is.

FPGA? DSP? who knows... probably not a way to convert it to 24 bit though..

I wouldn't get really hung up on it - 20 bit is pretty good for most things

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#1200476 - 02/20/13 10:02 AM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: bear]
Ptr Offline
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Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 260
Loc: the Netherlands
If you want 24 bit it might perhaps make more sense to sell your present 20-bit box (instead of modding it)
& build the circuit of this thread.



But indeed, 20 is fine as well.


I must even admit that I'm wondering how much the practical diference would be with decent 16-bit gear...

... and escpecially so since various older 16-bit (say) Fostex gear is more convenient than the VS-stuff I have
(a bit easier to use, far more sturdy in shaky environments, ADAT already present, just to mention a few),

... but it's nevertheless fun to bring these Roland 24-bit RDAC boxes a bit more up to date.
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#1200478 - 02/20/13 10:16 AM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: Ptr]
tommy2 Offline
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Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 24
So do you think, DIF AT works properly, if you send a signal of 24 bits via adat optical to Vs 2480 R-bus conector?
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#1200532 - 02/20/13 02:22 PM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: tommy2]
bear Offline
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Registered: 10/25/99
Posts: 6223
Loc: abq,nm,usa
Yes I think it works fine - the lower 4 bits will probably be truncated, but oh well, they are down in the noise anyway...
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#1200721 - 02/21/13 01:26 PM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: tommy2]
MKB Offline
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Registered: 02/07/05
Posts: 74
Loc: Southeastern US
 Originally Posted By: tommy2
Hi,

Is it difficult to modify the DIF-AT box to AT24 box?

Thanks, Tom

It's hard to say, you may have the same circuitry inside but lots of additional stuff in the DIF-AT to support the Tascam interface. Not sure if the DIF-AT has midi either. It might make more sense to find a DIF-AT24 as it might be less expensive due to the fewer features/capabilities.

I quickly scanned the DIF-AT manual and could not find a reference to bit depth.

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#1200730 - 02/21/13 01:53 PM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: MKB]
tommy2 Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 24
 Originally Posted By: MKB
 Originally Posted By: tommy2
Hi,

Is it difficult to modify the DIF-AT box to AT24 box?

Thanks, Tom

It's hard to say, you may have the same circuitry inside but lots of additional stuff in the DIF-AT to support the Tascam interface. Not sure if the DIF-AT has midi either. It might make more sense to find a DIF-AT24 as it might be less expensive due to the fewer features/capabilities.

I quickly scanned the DIF-AT manual and could not find a reference to bit depth.



I noticed the same as you from the DIF AT manual. There is not mentioned about the bit depth. Some says here, it is from 16 to 20 bits.

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#1200743 - 02/21/13 02:37 PM Re: RBUS ADAT convertor [Re: tommy2]
bear Offline
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Registered: 10/25/99
Posts: 6223
Loc: abq,nm,usa
http://www.vsplanet.com/ubbthreads/ubbth...0a66536ae5c6c59
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