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#1025062 - 01/26/11 10:00 AM All this talk about the Beatles recordings, but not about ...
flatcat Administrator Offline
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... the arrangements.

I know, I know. George Martin, blah blah.

I was listening to Dear Prudence this morning, and one of the things I really like about this song - aside from the bass part - OK, the bass part and the chord progression - is the little arpeggiation at the end of the tune, when they build and build to when Lennon sings "Won't you come out to play?". Those lead guitar lines that just build like that, you know? That's just really great, it helps build and build and build until you get to that moment where he simply asks Prudence to come out to play. It's like they created the sunny skies and the brand new day and all that stuff in music, like they're SHOWING her - and he just asks simply. It's a brilliant arrangement.

So I was wondering - whose idea was the arpeggios?

I mean, some of this stuff is kind-of famous to people who read all these books. It was George Martin who scored the quartet for Yesterday. It was his idea for the French horn solo in For No One. But McCartney was the one who suggested the "groan" to the 7 in the cello part in the second B section of Yesterday. It was McCartney who wanted to use the piccolo trumpet for the solo in Penny Lane.

But there is so little written about who came up with some of the other tremendous musical ideas, the guitar parts, the bass parts, like that thing in Dear Prudence. Who decided to do the three guitar mashup in the Abbey Road thing? Did Ringo come up with those amazingly inventive drum parts himself, or did McCartney tell him what to play or make suggestions, or George Martin, or some of all of that?

I sure wish I knew more about that kind of stuff. I think that would be really interesting.

Like the solos - they're almost all, in the later recordings, more ... written, not sponstaneous, at least I don't think so. So did George do those himself? How'd they work on them? You know?

I think this would be interesting.
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#1026154 - 01/31/11 04:20 PM Re: All this talk about the Beatles recordings, but not about ... [Re: flatcat]
Jazzooo Offline
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Good questions. I usually assume that guitar parts, like the Prudence arpeggios, were dreamed up by the composer. I doubt Paul could have heard the song, written those, and then gotten John to play them...on his own song.

George Martin didn't do the arrangements for Yesterday--he jobbed that one out. I'm sure he gave the arranger some very clear suggestions, though. He didn't give up control of their sound very lightly.

Paul saying "Let's have a piccolo trumpet solo here!" isn't very high on the scale 'arranging' skills unless you really, really stretch the term. I've heard that solo done on regular trumpet and cornet, and it still works beautifully. And if you perform the song without that part, you'd better have something amazing in it's place or the song suffers--that's arranging for ya. \:\)

By the way--'George Martin, blah, blah, blah'? The guy produced almost every track they ever recorded.

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#1026214 - 01/31/11 08:11 PM Re: All this talk about the Beatles recordings, but not about ... [Re: Jazzooo]
uptildawn Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Jazzooo
...Paul saying "Let's have a piccolo trumpet solo here!" isn't very high on the scale 'arranging' skills unless you really, really stretch the term. I've heard that solo done on regular trumpet and cornet, and it still works beautifully. And if you perform the song without that part, you'd better have something amazing in it's place or the song suffers--that's arranging for ya. :)...


NO JOKE!!!! \:\)

And the case for almost every solo on every one of their songs.... at least since "And Your Bird Can Sing"


Edited by uptildawn (01/31/11 08:11 PM)
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#1040954 - 04/29/11 06:22 AM Re: All this talk about the Beatles recordings, but not about ... [Re: Jazzooo]
motothy Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Jazzooo

George Martin didn't do the arrangements for Yesterday--he jobbed that one out.


No. George Martin arranged Yesterday, Paul working with him on the score. George did almost all the orchestral arrangements for Beatles recordings. The only significant exceptions were She's Leaving Home (Paul hired Mike Leander to score it at a time when George was`unavailable); and the Phil Spector produced Let It Be overdubs (Phil hired Richard Hewson to do the arrangements).

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#1042476 - 05/08/11 03:05 PM Re: All this talk about the Beatles recordings, but not about ... [Re: motothy]
Jazzooo Offline
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Wow, you're right--I stand corrected.
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#1044656 - 05/22/11 06:34 PM Re: All this talk about the Beatles recordings, but not about ... [Re: Jazzooo]
rhythmace47 Offline
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Martin was a great producer. But what I have seen on interviews with him, he is quick to point out that the group was better left to their own devices, ideas, etc rather than him taking a position of too much control. He had a genuine appreciation for their musical ideas and creativeness, albeit some of them coming from a more naive stance when it came to orchestration.

I believe you can hear that too. It's one of the things that make them stand out as far as raising the bar with their compositions.
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#1046142 - 06/01/11 09:46 AM Re: All this talk about the Beatles recordings, but not about ... [Re: rhythmace47]
Jazzooo Offline
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"But what I have seen on interviews with him, he is quick to point out that the group was better left to their own devices, ideas, etc rather than him taking a position of too much control. "


That is called humility, RA--it is the proper public stance of professional producers. And 'better left'? If that had been the case, we would never have had about 75% of the Beatles catalog!

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#1080990 - 11/16/11 01:56 PM Re: All this talk about the Beatles recordings, but not about ... [Re: Jazzooo]
DEMONMASTER62 Offline
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Registered: 09/30/11
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If I may, wouldn't it be better to get the stories from the Horse's mouth so to speak?

What you need is a book called "BEATLESONGS" Just like that, one word, author is William J. Dowlding. This guy painstakingly found everything every beatle said about every song, gives date it was said, and publication it was in. Lucked into this book at a used book store 10 years ago, read it once a year cover to cover, and still learn new stuff everytime I read it.

He lists every song in order it was recorded, album by album (British Versions) even gives chart positions for every album and every single, and dates, and whether chart was UK or US.

just an example of the detail; (abbreviations are mine.)

US Charts Billboard Hot 100 on april 4, 1964

1 Can't buy me love
2 Twist and shout
3 She loves you
4 Hold your hand
5 please please me
31 saw her standing there
41 From me to you
46 want to know a secret
58 all my loving
65 You can't do that
68 Roll over Beethoven
79 Thank you girl


top two albums selling that week were

Meet The Beatles
Introducing The Beatles

At no other time in history, before or since had a band or artist had the top 5 positions at one time, and top two album positions at the same time as well.
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#1138363 - 07/17/12 01:44 PM Re: All this talk about the Beatles recordings, but not about ... [Re: DEMONMASTER62]
FlametopFred Offline
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A lot of Beatles songs are not what you think they are, when you get down and play them.

They teach you everything you need to know about writing and arranging.
Not to mention singing.

Arrangement wise, it was a collaborative effort all around. Martin suggesting, but likewise Lennon and/or McCartney saying yea or nay. Or going away with Martin's suggestion and coming up with a twist or something better - an interpretation.

Likewise Martin (and Geoff Emerick) taking a Paul or John idea and turning it into something do-able, practical and stunning.

Lesson: collaboration and partners make things better if you have the right people to challenge you. Always work with somebody good or better than you.


I think Lennon got bored quickly with formats and insisted that a) they'd already done that and b) why can't we do something different on this ?


Strawberry Fields, I still love the way this song works and flows

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#1195197 - 01/29/13 04:49 PM Re: All this talk about the Beatles recordings, but not about ... [Re: FlametopFred]
Jazzooo Offline
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No one's reading this, but I just saw LOVE in Las Vegas for the second time and man, I couldn't be more convinced of Martin's genius than I am at this moment. And that takes away nothing from the Beatles, who are far and away the most important influences in my musical life. I view them as a team, and Martin as the coach. Everyone deserves credit for the wins.
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#1197404 - 02/07/13 02:57 AM Re: All this talk about the Beatles recordings, but not about ... [Re: Jazzooo]
Infinitymobile Offline
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Registered: 05/24/11
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 Quote:
No one's reading this, but

Hey Doug...I'm 'reading this' \:\)

I have not seen Love but I hear it is incredible. I couldn't agree more about them being a team with Martin as the coach and the Beatles as the players. What a great analogy!
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#1197522 - 02/07/13 05:22 PM Re: All this talk about the Beatles recordings, but not about ... [Re: Infinitymobile]
flatcat Administrator Offline
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"Love" is the sole thing that could entice me to Las Vegas. \:\)
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#1197583 - 02/07/13 08:32 PM Re: All this talk about the Beatles recordings, but not about ... [Re: flatcat]
Wish Administrator Offline
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I think I am gonna be going to Vegas next month for my bday. Love will be at the top of the list. I bought the cd a few years ago, and I really dig how they melded the songs together.
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#1199531 - 02/14/13 11:59 PM Re: All this talk about the Beatles recordings, but not about ... [Re: Wish]
Jazzooo Offline
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There ya go, Wish! Buy the middle seats--I think they were around $150 each. You don't need the front row, and you don't want to be in the back, although they aren't too bad. Enjoy!
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