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#1214802 - 05/06/13 10:19 AM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: moontan]
Gretsch 6120 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: moontan
science tells people it's impossible to get from there to here and some people believe that.

of course, that's assuming that science had discovered everything there is to discover.


I’ve gotten to the point I don’t even acknowledge that argument anymore. Obviously, if a species is here they’re millennia ahead of us. In fact, all the evidence points to “them” being here way before us. Nonetheless, it’s just utterly arrogant to the point of stupid to assume that other advanced civilizations would be limited to our current understanding of physics and the cosmos. Any child can wrap his/her brain around that concept, and from my experience, those who cling to this sort of rationale are simply doing so out of pure desperation at this point. It’s very telling, isn’t it? If the laws of the universe are only accessible to us and our limitations then it follows no one else can find us, and therefore, we’re safe….that’s what this argument is all about, (i.e., fear).

Chris
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#1215157 - 05/08/13 09:25 AM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: Gretsch 6120]
Gretsch 6120 Offline
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This one has some pretty sensational and over-the-top stuff, but I think there’s some very interesting things addressed here too: In particular, this one cites some of the crop circle phenomenon I studied in college (i.e., the actual cases). Some of these crop circles are absolutely incredible, and there’s no way a couple or even a few people could do this with small plows in the dead of night within the course of a few hours. The intricacy and detail is just so over-the-top.



Edited by Gretsch 6120 (05/08/13 09:47 AM)
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#1215169 - 05/08/13 12:26 PM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: Gretsch 6120]
moontan Offline
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i think we are being spoon-fed a little at a time.

from what i've gathered, experts have concluded that the population would panic if it were officially divulged that we are being visited by alien civilizations.

certainly, the Brookings Report to NASA in the early 60's underhandedly suggested that 'silence is golden' when it comes to the possibility of alien civs in the neighborhood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brookings_Report
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#1215176 - 05/08/13 02:18 PM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: moontan]
Gretsch 6120 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: moontan
i think we are being spoon-fed a little at a time.

from what i've gathered, experts have concluded that the population would panic if it were officially divulged that we are being visited by alien civilizations.

certainly, the Brookings Report to NASA in the early 60's underhandedly suggested that 'silence is golden' when it comes to the possibility of alien civs in the neighborhood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brookings_Report


I’m glad you mentioned the Brookings Report. Everyone in the United States of American should read that without a doubt. This report begs the inescapable question as to what is NASA’s purpose, if not to discover extraterrestrial life? The Brookings Report suggests to me that NASA is one of two things: 1). It’s either an agency who was setup for failure from the get-go and is nothing more than a black hole for funding. 2). It is a space agency that fronts an entirely different agenda than what it displays to the public. Actually, my hunch is it’s a little or a lot of both. Either way, there is no doubt that at least some people in NASA know more than they’re letting on, and in fact, as you know, many former NASA officials have come forward saying exactly that.

I’ll leave it at this for the moment: I won’t get into what I do for a profession, but my occupation does give me some insight into how stonewalling and cover ups can occur within the government and its numerous agencies (i.e., there’s literally hundreds of them). What people need to understand—and I’ve talked about this in the political forums before—is the term “government” is often used as if it’s one big agency, but it’s not. It’s all very compartmentalized. One person works in this particular area, and another works in that particular area, and so on and so forth. Any many cases, numerous people can be working on various facets of the same project but never interact with one another. There may be one or two people coordinating or facilitating that whole process, and those facilitators are the only ones who have access to the big picture. This is done in top secret projects all the time, and it’s a common practice to keep all the information from being consolidated in one place, which can compromise the information, the project, and the outcome.

So, if you wanted to, let’s say, back engineer technology that was retrieved from a crashed saucer in Roswell New Mexico in 1947 it’s really not out of the question that our government could easily do so. They already had a longstanding protocol in place for black operations. Every aspect is compartmentalized—from the retrieval, to the storage, to the dismantlement, to the research, to the testing, etc. Moreover, it’s spread out all over the country. So, most of the people actually working on the back engineering process are completely in the dark as to where the technology came from or where the military obtained it, and that’s how it’s done.

Chris
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#1215188 - 05/08/13 04:00 PM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: Gretsch 6120]
MadGuitrst Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Gretsch 6120
this one cites some of the crop circle phenomenon I studied in college (i.e., the actual cases). Some of these crop circles are absolutely incredible, and there’s no way a couple or even a few people could do this with small plows in the dead of night within the course of a few hours.




Here, watch until the end with time lapsed video of the....um, three aliens creating large crop circles in less than six hours.

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#1215190 - 05/08/13 04:06 PM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: MadGuitrst]
moontan Offline
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 Originally Posted By: MadGuitrst

Here, watch until the end with time lapsed video of the....um, three aliens creating large crop circles in less than six hours.


i haven't delved in the subject much but researchers in this matter say they can tell the difference between man-made circle and the 'other' ones.

apparently, the ones made by people leave broken stalks all around but the 'real' one are bent (not broken) like they were subjected to heat.

i don't know if there's any truth to that but it would be good keep an open mind about this.

because some crop circles are man-made doesn't mean automatically that all of them are...
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#1215197 - 05/08/13 04:42 PM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: moontan]
Gretsch 6120 Offline
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Mad’s argument is that because some crop circles are fake then all crop circles must be fake….I’m guessing he never took Logic 101…but that aside, MG, did you actually see the crop circles I’m referring to?...If so, could you honestly look me or any person in the face and say “you’re stupid for believing that’s anything than a fake.”…..Now, I’m not saying it’s not possible for some highly intelligent engineering types—and they would have to be very very good, and there would have to be a lot of them AND they would need MUCH more time than a single night to pull it off—to pull this off. I’m saying that in the given scenarios for these particular crop circles, which are extremely intricate and detailed and appeared literally overnight, could not be manmade.

Watch the video please and look at the crop circles before you comment…that would be a fair and productive way to move forward in this subject….otherwise, don’t bother because you’ve made your mind up and are socially engineered to deride those who have a varying perspective…However, I’m not interested in that opinion or people who refuse to address the actual evidence….I’m interested in data, credible eyewitnesses, in documented accounts, and hard facts related to this issue.

BTW, the problem you’re going to run into, if you’re brave enough to really delve into the crop circle phenomenon, is that some of these circles—which are found all over the freaking world and have been for centuries—have been studied by numerous scientists. There are very real forensic anomalies--such as high levels of radiation and creased, not broken, crop stocks—associated with these circles.

But don’t bother, MG!…It’s much easier to mock and keep your head in the sand…ignorance truly is bliss…..So, carry on!

Chris
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#1215200 - 05/08/13 04:51 PM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: Gretsch 6120]
Gretsch 6120 Offline
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August 23, 2001: Chilbolton, Hampshire



Crop Circle Formations- September 2009: UK



Edited by Gretsch 6120 (05/08/13 04:59 PM)
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#1215201 - 05/08/13 04:53 PM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: Gretsch 6120]
Gretsch 6120 Offline
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Edited by Gretsch 6120 (05/08/13 04:53 PM)
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#1215212 - 05/08/13 05:36 PM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: Gretsch 6120]
moontan Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Gretsch 6120
Mad’s argument is that because some crop circles are fake then all crop circles must be fake….I’m guessing he never took Logic 101…

Chris


never did i.

but i found smoking a bit a weed gives more room to maneuver for the 3 brain cells i have left.
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#1215214 - 05/08/13 05:42 PM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: moontan]
moontan Offline
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where all those people get the free time?

they must be very wealthy indeed to be involved in such endeavor. ;\)

the last thing i would do after a work week is to spend my week-ends in some farmer's fields in the middle of the night. ;\)

jeezuz k-rist!
we got chased by angry farmers with crow bars and dogs just for trying to pick magic mushrooms out of cow pies in the middle of the night.


i can't imagine what it would have been trying to carve patterns in wheat fields. ;\)
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#1215276 - 05/08/13 10:40 PM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: moontan]
MadGuitrst Offline
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Logic 101? Ha ha ha ha ha

Aliens come to Earth to create crop circles....
....and this one in their own 1930s image.



Logical indeed, lol.

Get a grip, Gretsch. Ha ha ha ha ha.....

Oh yeah, “you’re stupid for believing that’s anything than a fake.”

 Originally Posted By: Gretsch 6120
keep your head in the sand…ignorance truly is bliss….


Obviously - you've ignored the facts.
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#1215283 - 05/08/13 11:17 PM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: MadGuitrst]
MadGuitrst Offline
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#1215301 - 05/09/13 05:31 AM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: moontan]
klaus dibbelt Offline
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 Originally Posted By: moontan


where all those people get the free time?

they must be very wealthy indeed to be involved in such endeavor. ;\)

the last thing i would do after a work week is to spend my week-ends in some farmer's fields in the middle of the night. ;\)

...while for aliens snapping straws is undoubtedly part of their job description. \:D
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#1215302 - 05/09/13 05:35 AM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: Gretsch 6120]
klaus dibbelt Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Gretsch 6120
August 23, 2001: Chilbolton, Hampshire




almost looks like the Jesus on my toast. \:D
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#1215304 - 05/09/13 05:37 AM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: MadGuitrst]
havlicek Offline
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Hmmm, I don't know if MG took logic, but I did! So we have a problem here, and it's to come to a conclusion about the origin of crop circles...generally speaking. There are two possibilities we are to limit ourselves to:

1)Crop circles are the product of human pranksters
2)Crop circles are the product of alien beings

What we know:

1)Many crop circles are man made. Originally, people took pains to conceal this so others would assume "strange origins".

2)People have both been caught making crop circles AND even produced "how to" videos.

3)While some assume that many crop circles are indeed of "otherworldly origin", there has never (of course) been any documented proof. No aliens have ever been seen in the process of making crop circles and certainly the process has never been caught on video.

So back to our problem. We have proof of humans making crop circles vs an imagined alien origin for crop circles. While Logic 101 and the subsequent Logic classes I took are a distant memory, I'm pretty sure anyone assuming that even some crop circles (given the information we have) are of alien origin would flunk the course.

This doesn't rule out the possibility that some crop circles could be of alien origin. It may be that "they" saw us making crop circles and thought this might be a good way of communicating with us. Maybe they even have a sense of humor and decided to freak us out by making designs even better than ours! All this does mean is that it's very likely that crop circles belong in the same category as Elvis sightings.

-john
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#1215332 - 05/09/13 08:59 AM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: havlicek]
moontan Offline
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just wondering here how many man-hours are needed to create something like this:



provided of course those are made by people.
in any case, it looks stunning.

perhaps the farmers would not agree though.

my take is that most crop circles, if not all, are probably of human origin.

though aliens can not be ruled out entirely.
after all, if we are visited by alien civilizations it's not outside the realm of possibilities that one of their 'hobby' would be crop circle making.
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#1215348 - 05/09/13 10:58 AM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: moontan]
Gretsch 6120 Offline
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 Quote:
THE PROVIDENCE JOURNAL
Leslie Kean: Origin of crop circles baffles scientists
09/16/2002

SAN FRANCISCO

SINCE THE RECENT release of the movie Signs, crop circles have been thrust into the limelight. Major publications such as Scientific American and U.S. News and World Report have echoed the common belief that all crop circles are made by stealthy humans flattening plants with boards. This assumption would be fair enough if we had no information suggesting otherwise.

However, intriguing data published in peer-reviewed scientific journals clearly establishes that some of these geometric designs, found in dozens of countries, are not made by "pranks with planks." In fact, a study about to be published by a team of scientists and funded by Laurance Rockefeller concludes "it is possible that we are observing the effects of a new or as yet undiscovered energy source."

In the early 1990s, biophysicist William C. Levengood, of the Pinelandia Biophysical Laboratory, in Michigan, examined plants and soils from 250 crop formations, randomly selected from seven countries. Samples and controls were provided by the Massachusetts-based BLT Research Team, directed by Nancy Talbott.

Levengood, who has published over 50 papers in scientific journals, documented numerous changes in the plants from the formations. Most dramatic were grossly elongated plant nodes (the "knuckles" along the stem) and "expulsion cavities" -- holes literally blown open at the nodes -- caused by the heating of internal moisture from exposure to intense bursts of radiation. The steam inside the stems escaped by either stretching the nodes or, in less elastic tissue, exploding out like a potato bursting open in a microwave oven.

Seeds taken from the plants and germinated in the lab showed significant alterations in growth, as compared with controls. Effects varied from an inability to develop seeds to a massive increase in growth rate -- depending on the species, the age of the plants when the circle was created and the intensity of the energy system involved.

These anomalies were also found in tufts of standing plants inside crop circles -- clearly not a result of mechanical flattening -- and in patches of randomly downed crops found near the geometric designs. These facts suggested some kind of natural, but unknown, force at work.

Published in Physiologia Plantarum (1994), the international journal of the European Societies of Plant Physiology, Levengood's data showed that "plants from crop circles display anatomical alterations which cannot be explained by assuming the formations are hoaxes." He defined a "genuine" formation as one "produced by external energy forces independent of human influence."

A strange brown "glaze" covering plants within a British formation was the subject of Levengood and John A. Burke's 1995 paper in the Journal of Scientific Exploration. The material was a pure iron that had been embedded in the plants while the iron was still molten. Tiny iron spheres were also found in the soil.

In 1999, British investigator Ronald Ashby examined the glaze through optical and scanning electron microscopes. He determined that intense heat had been involved -- iron melts at about 2,700 degrees Fahrenheit -- administered in millisecond bursts. "After exhaustive inquiry, there is no mundane explanation for the glaze" he concluded.

In another paper for Physiologia Plantarum (1999), Levengood and Talbott suggested that the energy causing crop circles could be an atmospheric plasma vortex -- multiple interacting electrified air masses that emit microwaves as they spiral around the earth's magnetic-field lines.

Some formations, however, contain cubes and straight lines. Astrophysicist Bernard Haisch, of the California Institute for Physics and Astrophysics, says that such "highly organized, intelligent patterns are not something that could be created by a force of nature."

But Haisch points out that since not all formations are tested, it is unknown how many are genuine. Nor is it likely that such complex designs could evolve so quickly in nature. "Natural phenomena make mountain ranges and form continents -- they don't learn geometry in ten years," says Haisch, a science editor for the Astrophysical Journal.

In 1999, philanthropist Laurance Rockefeller made possible the most definitive -- and most revealing -- study to date. The BLT Research Team collected hundreds of plant and soil samples from a seven-circle barley formation in Edmonton, Canada. The plants had both elongated nodes and expulsion cavities, and the soils contained the peculiar iron spheres, indicating a genuine formation. The controls showed none of these changes.

Mineralogist Sampath Iyengar, of the Technology of Materials Laboratory, in California, examined specific heat-sensitive clay minerals in these soils, using X-ray diffraction and a scanning electron microscope. He discovered an increase in the degree of crystallinity (the ordering of atoms) in the circle minerals, which statistician Ravi Raghavan determined was statistically significant at the 95 percent level of confidence.

"I was shocked," says Iyengar, a 30-year specialist in clay mineralogy. "These changes are normally found in sediments buried for thousands and thousands of years under rocks, affected by heat and pressure, and not in surface soils."

Also astounding was the direct correlation between the node-length increases in the plants and the increased crystallization in the soil minerals -- indicating a common energy source for both effects. Yet the scientists could not explain how this would be possible. The temperature required to alter soil crystallinity would be between 1,500 and 1,800 degrees F. This would destroy the plants.

Understanding the possible ramifications of these findings, Talbott sought the expertise of an emeritus professor of geology and mineralogy at Dartmouth College, Robert C. Reynolds Jr., who is former president of the Clay Minerals Society. He is regarded by his colleagues as the "best-known expert in the world" on X-ray diffraction analysis of clay minerals.

Reynolds determined that the BLT Team's data had been "obtained by competent personnel, using current equipment."

The intense heat required for the observed changes in crystallinity "would have incinerated any plant material present," he confirms in a statement for the Rockefeller report. "In short, I believe that our present knowledge provides no explanation."

Meteorologist James W. Deardorff, professor emeritus at the College of Oceanic and Atmospheric Sciences at Oregon State University, and previously a senior scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research, states in a 2001 Physiologia Plantarum commentary that the variety, complexity and artistry of crop circles "represent the work of intelligence," and not a plasma vortex. "That is why the hoax hypothesis has been popularly advocated," he says.

However, he points out, the anomalous properties in plant stems thoroughly documented by Levengood and Talbott could not possibly have been implemented by hoaxers. Deardorff describes one 1986 British formation in which upper and lower layers of crop were intricately swirled and bent perpendicular to each other, in a fashion that "defies any explanation."

"People don't want to face up to this, and scientists have to deal with the ridicule factor," he said in a recent interview.

Adding to the puzzle, professional filmmakers have documented bizarre daytime "balls of light" at crop-circle sites. Light phenomena were observed by multiple witnesses at the site of the Canadian circle so meticulously examined under the Rockefeller grant.

Eltjo Hasselhoff, a Dutch experimental physicist, has taken on the study of what he describes as "bright, fluorescent flying light objects,sized somewhere between an egg and a football."

Scientists face real and serious questions in confronting this mystery. Could this be secret laser technology beamed down from satellites? Is it a natural phenomenon? Is there a consciousness or intelligence directing an energy form yet unknown to us?

"To look at the evidence and go away unconvinced is one thing," says astrophysicist Haisch. "To not look at the evidence and be convinced against it . . . is another. That is not science." It's not good journalism, either.

Leslie Kean is an investigative reporter and producer with Pacifica Radio based in the San Francisco Bay Area


So, when someone automatically insists “all crop circles are manmade and anyone who believes otherwise is obviously stupid,” they’re painting with the broad brush of very limited knowledge. The problem is that person cannot and will not address the findings of biochemists, like William C. Levengood. In fact, I’d be dollars to donuts Mad had never seen these studies before. Of course, he went online, found the very first video clip that supposedly “debunked” the entire phenomenon and clung to it as if it were the “Gospel truth” and as if he were a devout “believer” in all that is considered debunked.

Essentially, Mad Guitarist has presented logical fallacy that is akin to walking into a court of law surrounding a murder trial and making the defense that because some accused murders are innocent, therefore all accused murders are innocent and the client should be acquitted on those grounds alone. Of course, that’s ludicrous, and the logic is no less ludicrous in this case.

Sure, a lot of crop circles are fake, and just like the UFO phenomenon itself some being fake does not preclude the reality of others. There are counterfeit guitars, coins, cars, clothes, etc. of all makes, but it does not logically follow all guitars, coins, cars, items of clothing, etc. are all fake all the time. That notion is absolutely absurd.

And here’s why it’s absurd in this context: If you look at the particular crop circles I’ve cited of particular interest, you would be bat shit crazy and off your rocker to even suggest they were done by a couple of armatures in the dead of night. Moreover, these circles aren’t localized or isolated to any particular part of the world. These complex formations—sometimes correlating with one another—appear all over the world and on every continent.

Finally, the best way to debunk the debunkers in this case is by pointing out something people like Mad Guitarist aren’t aware of (i.e., the well documented fact that these circles have were cited in texts throughout history and among practically every culture). We have documented writings and even drawings of crop circles appearing in Japan, China, the Britain, South America, North America, Rome, etc. spanning back many centuries. This is not a phenomenon that just started in the 1980s/90s.

So, this raises the age old question for anyone who’s honestly searching for answers (i.e., which came first, the chicken or the egg?). In other words, modern crop circle artists have been copying something that already existed. The art of doing this—and I don’t honestly understand why anyone would want to waste their time doing it but some obviously do—was not initiated out of a vacuum. The original notion of doing it came from a pre-existing phenomenon—just like the UFO phenomenon itself. First, there are real mysterious and well-documented sightings. Then there are inevitably those who try to exploit and capitalize on those sightings, thus muddying the waters and making the process of getting to the truth all the more difficult. Nevertheless, if you’re willing to wade through all the bullshit, the reality of this phenomenon definitely is there to be viewed.

Chris


Edited by Gretsch 6120 (05/09/13 10:59 AM)
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#1215349 - 05/09/13 11:03 AM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: Gretsch 6120]
Gretsch 6120 Offline
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[quote] [b ]"To look at the evidence and go away unconvinced is one thing," says astrophysicist Haisch. "To not look at the evidence and be convinced against it . . . is another. That is not science." It's not good journalism, either[/b][/quote]

Edited by Gretsch 6120 (05/09/13 11:04 AM)
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#1215351 - 05/09/13 11:24 AM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: Gretsch 6120]
Gretsch 6120 Offline
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#1215352 - 05/09/13 11:31 AM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: Gretsch 6120]
Gretsch 6120 Offline
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Watch this entire program:....very good...

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#1215357 - 05/09/13 11:47 AM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: Gretsch 6120]
Gretsch 6120 Offline
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Okay, so I’ve established very clearly that there is an entire school of scientists (biochemists, astrophysics, crop experts, academic researchers, historians, etc.—who insist there is something to some of the crop circle phenomenon. The hoaxing argument is COMPLETELY discredited in light of the entirety of this phenomenon. The explanation cannot possibly account for centuries of documented occurrences, the scientific anomalies, and the vast distances between the crop circles themselves. The fact this phenomenon has been occurring for a long time on a global basis completely debunks the possibility that a few guys with nothing better to do can possibly account for ever crop circle that’s ever been made or studied.

So, now it’s time to move on, since this has been established, but let’s do a quick review of what we know so far.

1. We have extremely credible eyewitnesses, ranging from government officials, to pilots, to astronauts, to former presidents, etc.—all of who claim we’ve been visited.
2. We have leaked and official government documents that indicate we’ve been visited.
3. We have irrefutable evidence of a massive government cover up, and we even have documents where the government openly indicates that its very protocol would be to cover up such an event, as alien contact.
4. We have official radar and air traffic control transcripts that perfectly correspond with pilot and eyewitness sightings.
5. We have forensic and trace evidence conducted after well documented sightings (i.e., highly anomalous radiation readings, chemical and compound analysis that cannot be identified as being of Earthly origins, etc.).
6. We have official acknowledgments of an extraterrestrial presence on the part of other countries, like France, Iran, and even to a lesser degree, the U.K.
7. And to sum up thus far, we have established very clearly a method, motive, and means that our government has employed to cover up the reality of UFOs in our airways for decades now.

So, now I’ll move forward with NASA…..Stand by to have your minds further blown.


Edited by Gretsch 6120 (05/09/13 11:47 AM)
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#1215360 - 05/09/13 12:12 PM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: Gretsch 6120]
strat1376 Offline
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Its mind blowing to me that anyone still disputes that extraterrestrial life exists and has/is visiting here. Visiting is probably the wrong word as I believe they have been here for a lot longer than we have and probably are responsible for our existence in some way. All you need do is look at the buildings in Peru or the pyramids in Egypt to realize that there is no way in hell that people of that time built those things. Its doubtful that we could build some of them now. Its not about the tech, but about the time and the motivation. Especially In Peru. Most of everyone's day was taken up with simple existence. They had neither the time nor the manpower to do these things at 11000 feet above sea level. Take the time to do a little research. Read the book of Enoch and the Sumerian scrolls and forget about the BS that has been taught to us by so called experts like anthropologists and evolutionary scientists and make your own decisions. Most of us here are college educated so go stand in front of the great pyramid and tell me you could figure out a way to build that with stone tools and wooden rollers in 20 years. To do that you will have to set one stone every 5 minutes or so,aound the clock. Approx 800 tons of stone a day.
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#1215374 - 05/09/13 01:59 PM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: strat1376]
Gretsch 6120 Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 05/12/02
Posts: 20321
Loc: Pensacola, FL
 Quote:
Planeteer Registered: 01-07-2004
Posts: 702
Loc: New York, USA

Its mind blowing to me that anyone still disputes that extraterrestrial life exists and has/is visiting here. Visiting is probably the wrong word as I believe they have been here for a lot longer than we have and probably are responsible for our existence in some way. All you need do is look at the buildings in Peru or the pyramids in Egypt to realize that there is no way in hell that people of that time built those things. Its doubtful that we could build some of them now. Its not about the tech, but about the time and the motivation. Especially In Peru. Most of everyone's day was taken up with simple existence. They had neither the time nor the manpower to do these things at 11000 feet above sea level. Take the time to do a little research. Read the book of Enoch and the Sumerian scrolls and forget about the BS that has been taught to us by so called experts like anthropologists and evolutionary scientists and make your own decisions. Most of us here are college educated so go stand in front of the great pyramid and tell me you could figure out a way to build that with stone tools and wooden rollers in 20 years. To do that you will have to set one stone every 5 minutes or so,aound the clock. Approx 800 tons of stone a day.


I agree and disagree with some of this. Although not her current occupation, my wife has a degree in Anthropology and has been involved in a number of excavations. One of her interests has long been Egyptian archeology. Having a lot more knowledge and insight into real archeology than I do, she’s taken a look at the mainstream and “ancient astronaut” theories. She seems pretty convinced, as am I, the pyramids were manmade. However, neither of us believe they were made via the modern day explanation (i.e., with thousands of slave workers at a time moving single giant stone into place, one at a time). The evidence points to the irrefutable fact the Egyptians and other cultures even before the first Egyptian dynasties—going back 10 thousand years or more—had access to lost technologies we still have not rediscovered to this day. I believe it had something to do with magnetic vibrations and a form of physics we do not completely understand. Tesla was probably on the cusp of discovering this technology or some variation of it, and in fact, Edward Leedskalnin, did exactly that in the 1950s (i.e., Florida’s Coral Castle).

Once again, we have a question that is begged to be asked. Where did this ancient technology come from? Well, if we give any credence to the fact that all these different cultures spanning every corner of the world have very similar and at times even identical origin stories, then we actually know the answer. A person would have to be deaf, dumb, and blind—or at least willfully ignorant—to ignore the fact that every single ancient culture has a “myth” of gods coming down from the sky and establishing civilization. This includes the Sumerians, as you mentioned, the Indian Sanskrit, the Navaho and other Native American traditions, numerous African tribe traditions, Chinese mythologies, Japanese mythologies, Greek mythologies, etc. etc. The list literally goes on and on, and the origins of these traditions—all of which tell eerily similar stories—can all be traced to roughly the same time period as cited by the Sumerian texts.

I defy anyone to read the Book of Enoch, which is part of the Dead Sea Scrolls, and tell me what the hell that’s all about. Read the Book of Genesis 6:4, and explain to me what’s going on with the Nephilim, which is literally translated from Hebrew to English as “those who came down from the sky.” Every culture has a tradition of giants having once lived on this Earth as an actual race of beings. Every single one, and I think someone would have to be an absolute idiot to ignore that fact and just assume it’s much ado about nothing.

Chris
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#1215375 - 05/09/13 02:14 PM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: Gretsch 6120]
Gretsch 6120 Offline
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#1215376 - 05/09/13 02:16 PM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: Gretsch 6120]
Gretsch 6120 Offline
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Registered: 05/12/02
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#1215378 - 05/09/13 02:21 PM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: Gretsch 6120]
Gretsch 6120 Offline
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Registered: 05/12/02
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#1215381 - 05/09/13 02:36 PM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: Gretsch 6120]
Gretsch 6120 Offline
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#1215383 - 05/09/13 02:42 PM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: Gretsch 6120]
Gretsch 6120 Offline
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#1215384 - 05/09/13 02:45 PM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: Gretsch 6120]
Gretsch 6120 Offline
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#1215387 - 05/09/13 02:54 PM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: Gretsch 6120]
Gretsch 6120 Offline
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#1215394 - 05/09/13 03:48 PM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: Gretsch 6120]
Gretsch 6120 Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 05/12/02
Posts: 20321
Loc: Pensacola, FL
 Quote:
Is it not possible that we are the most advanced?
Could that be a reason we have not been found, so to speak, and communicated (definitively) with (just asking, seriously)?

To me it appears that man has made aliens (that have supposedly been seen) much in his image.
I find that mathematically questionable, to say the least.
Somewhat of an evolution of the human species, which again, I find mathematically questionable.



I'm sure you've heard of the Drake Equation. Well, here it is:

 Quote:
The equation is usually written:
N = R* • fp • ne • fl • fi • fc • L

Where,

N = The number of civilizations in The Milky Way Galaxy whose electromagnetic emissions are detectable.

R* =The rate of formation of stars suitable for the development of intelligent life.

fp = The fraction of those stars with planetary systems.

ne = The number of planets, per solar system, with an environment suitable for life.

fl = The fraction of suitable planets on which life actually appears.

fi = The fraction of life bearing planets on which intelligent life emerges.

fc = The fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space.

L = The length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into space.



Current estimates are that there are 2,812,500,000 billion civilizations in our galaxy alone that are intelligent and capable of communication. That means if we are to accept your postulations then we’re placing our odds on 1 to 2,812,500,000 spread that we’re the most intelligent life in the cosmos. I don’t know about you, but those don’t seem like very good odds to me.

So, if you’ve paid attention at all so far, I’ve cited the Sumerian texts, the Book of Genesis, The Book of Enoch, and literally countless other ancient texts and Sanskrit writings. Here’s the rub: They don’t look like us. We look like them, and that makes perfect sense in the context of what our ancestors reported and depicted.

Furthermore, just like most carbon-based planets, suns, meteors, comets, etc. all have a similar form, it’s not that far of a stretch to assume that at least much of the carbon-based life forms on other planets would also bare some resemblance. That’s not a logical or scientific stretch at all. Evolution probably proceeds in countless ways, including some identical paths.

Regardless of how you look at this—whether we were seeded or merely byproducts of stardust—we are in some very real, very empirical, and very scientific form or fashion aliens ourselves. We all are. The Earth itself and everything on it is just newly formed matter from stardust. Now, once you can wrap your head around that reality—and virtually every scientist on the face of this Earth would agree with that—then it doesn’t become such a huge logical leap to consider what we’re discussing right now.


Edited by Gretsch 6120 (05/09/13 04:25 PM)
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#1215396 - 05/09/13 04:13 PM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: Gretsch 6120]
moontan Offline
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Registered: 04/16/99
Posts: 25809
Loc: Sol III
i got my own version of the Drake Equation.

take the numbers of stars in the milky way galaxy.
estimates vary from 100 billions to 400 billions stars.
we'll go with 200 billions for the moment.

200 billions, minus:
* about 10% of the stars are suitable for the creation of life bearing planets.
so that leaves us with 20 billions stars.
* minus about 2/3, because two thirds of solar systems are made of multiple stars, which are not very suitable for long term life to evolve.
so that leaves us with about 7 billions stars

how many of those stars will have planet?
from what we can observe, it's a lot percentage-wise.
we'll say minus 50% but it's probably higher than that.
we're left with about let's say 3 billions stars.

how many of the those planets will develop life?
this is hard to say but it's probably high percentage-wise, though most of those life-bearing worlds will have nothing more than microbes on them.
we'll take off minus %90 percent just to be on the safe side, and just because i'm feeling generous. ;\)

we're left with 300 millions stars that all have planets with some kind of life on them.

how many of those star systems will have planets that have intelligent life?
i'd say between 1 in 1 millions and 1 in 10 millions.

so we might be looking at something between 30 and 300 star systems with intelligent beings on them in our own galaxy.

YMMV
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#1215406 - 05/09/13 05:09 PM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: moontan]
havlicek Offline
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Registered: 05/26/02
Posts: 6738
Loc: East Hampton, NY
 Quote:
Okay, so I’ve established very clearly that there is an entire school of scientists (biochemists, astrophysics, crop experts, academic researchers, historians, etc.—who insist there is something to some of the crop circle phenomenon. The hoaxing argument is COMPLETELY discredited in light of the entirety of this phenomenon.


Again, I don't know if MG took logic, but clearly you didn't Chris...or at least if you did, you most likely didn't do well. You've "established" absolutely zero except as far as you're concerned. We have "what we know for sure" (many crop circles are man made) and we have "what we think might be the case" (that some crop circles are made by extraterrestrials). Someone could say to themselves something like "it must be the case that some are made by extraterrestrials" or even "I can't believe that we won't find out that extraterrestrials are responsible for at least some crop circles". Based on what we know for sure right now, we can logically only come to the conclusion that many crop circles are hoaxes. It doesn't matter how many "experts" you pile on, not a single one means anything unless or until there is documented proof of aliens having done this.

Remember, every scientist in the world thought the earth was the center of the universe at one time and every expert believed the earth was flat too. Our knowledge has increased greatly since those days, but if there are life forms intelligent enough to come here and screw with our crops, our intellect might seem like that of a garden slug compared to theirs. For sure, it's best to keep an open mind though...I do.

-john
_________________________
"anyone who believes that what they think is so important they will post political messages in a no-politics forum, only highlights their assholiness"

-John Havlicek (from "How To Spot An Internet Idiot", © 2012)

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#1215410 - 05/09/13 05:54 PM Re: We're Not Alone [Re: havlicek]
klaus dibbelt Offline
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Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 8225
Loc: erzhausen, germany, europe
highly evolved extraterrestial beings travel light years upon light years through space just to fool around in our crop fields. sounds like a plausible explanation alright.
at least it would be strong evidence that we don´t have anything to fear from them.
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