#1271344 - 01/10/14 06:15 PM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: mrsinical]
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moontan
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 04/16/99
Posts: 31933
Loc: Sol III
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interesting proposition mrsinical but i don't think travel backward in time is possible.
what is done is done.
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#1271350 - 01/10/14 06:38 PM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: moontan]
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mrsinical
AudioWriter
Planeteer
Registered: 08/31/09
Posts: 1808
Loc: Riding Indiana Waves of Audio
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Just throwi'n em out there to "see what happens"...
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#1271364 - 01/10/14 07:53 PM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: mrsinical]
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SkyWave
Planeteer
Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 14766
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We already know what the sun is made of. And time travel, too, is the stuff of imagination and science fiction.
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#1271383 - 01/10/14 09:04 PM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: SkyWave]
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mrsinical
AudioWriter
Planeteer
Registered: 08/31/09
Posts: 1808
Loc: Riding Indiana Waves of Audio
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Ah, but the sun is actually a transformer, well, more precisely, a converter - not an "atomic reactor".
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#1271392 - 01/10/14 09:24 PM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: mrsinical]
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ulank
Forum Person
Planeteer
Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 20169
Loc: Chicago, IL
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Sun big.
Laser small.
Sun win.
_________________________
“This is no place for vacation.”
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#1271424 - 01/11/14 12:13 AM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: moontan]
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fabulousthunderbird
Planeteer
Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 24511
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Don't forget about the man-made climate change hoax. nice try but no cigar. anyway, the subject is UFO and things alien-related. try to stay focused.
You were talking about all the things scientists have gotten wrong, so my comment was spot-on, dummy.
_________________________
"They walk among us, my son. By their ill-conceived and poorly executed facial hair shall ye know them..."
I am fonts
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#1271427 - 01/11/14 12:26 AM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: fabulousthunderbird]
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moontan
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 04/16/99
Posts: 31933
Loc: Sol III
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Don't forget about the man-made climate change hoax. nice try but no cigar. anyway, the subject is UFO and things alien-related. try to stay focused. You were talking about all the things scientists have gotten wrong, so my comment was spot-on, dummy.
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#1271479 - 01/11/14 01:46 PM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: mrsinical]
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havlicek
Planeteer
Registered: 05/26/02
Posts: 6738
Loc: East Hampton, NY
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Ah, but the sun is actually a transformer, well, more precisely, a converter - not an "atomic reactor".
It's not incorrect to call the sun an "atomic reactor" for conversational purposes. The term is vague and many people will think of fission when they hear it, but the sun IS the type of "atomic reactor" we'd like to be able to control...a fusion reactor. "Transformer" and "converter" are no more correct or less vague. Pretty much all chemical reactions involve "transforming" and "converting"...drop some sodium into water (REALLY carefully) and a whole bunch of transforming and converting will happen.
-john
_________________________
"anyone who believes that what they think is so important they will post political messages in a no-politics forum, only highlights their assholiness"
-John Havlicek (from "How To Spot An Internet Idiot", © 2012)
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#1271553 - 01/12/14 12:03 AM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: havlicek]
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SkyWave
Planeteer
Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 14766
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It is somewhat correct to refer to the sun as a natural nuclear fusion reactor.
Calling it an atomic reactor is inaccurate, calling it a transformer is also inaccurate.
The main energetic nuclear reaction in the sun is thermonuclear fusion, in which the nuclei of hydrogen atoms are fused into helium.
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#1271570 - 01/12/14 01:41 AM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: SkyWave]
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havlicek
Planeteer
Registered: 05/26/02
Posts: 6738
Loc: East Hampton, NY
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Calling it an atomic reactor is inaccurate
...which is why I said "for conversational purposes" . People generally understand that a thermonuclear reaction is going on, some also that hydrogen atoms stripped of their electrons (ions) are being fused into helium, but in conversation that all gets lumped together as "atomic". Certainly "atomic reactors" in use are fission reactors.
-john
_________________________
"anyone who believes that what they think is so important they will post political messages in a no-politics forum, only highlights their assholiness"
-John Havlicek (from "How To Spot An Internet Idiot", © 2012)
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#1271593 - 01/12/14 03:51 AM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: havlicek]
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SkyWave
Planeteer
Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 14766
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Well, one would think that modern humans living technological societies would know the difference between atomic and nuclear. All the reactors and basically all the bombs these days are nuclear. For some reason, the general public inaccurately uses the terms "atomic" and "nuclear" interchangeably.
But I suppose this is unsurprising in a country in which religions stands in opposition to science, where near half of all Americans neither believes in (nor understands) the theory of evolution and natural selection. What can one says where one in five American adults think the sun orbits the Earth, only half know how long it takes for the Earth to revolve around the Sun, and only 59% of adults know that dinosaurs and humans never co-existed (the “Flinstones model of prehistory”).
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#1271594 - 01/12/14 03:54 AM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: SkyWave]
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AL
the last rock hope
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 04/16/99
Posts: 76338
Loc: Walmartville
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well, I still think it was aliens.
SkyWave, if you're such an expert on everything, what's to gain from condescending to a bunch of music people ?
_________________________
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America's greatest institution is the NFL.
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#1271637 - 01/12/14 10:22 AM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: AL]
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moontan
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 04/16/99
Posts: 31933
Loc: Sol III
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i think it's always good to keep a sceptical mind, especially when it comes to UFO.
take the story of Ezekiel in the Bible for example.
lots of people think Ezekiel is telling a sighting of a UFO.
it could be very well be.
other things it could be:
* a dream he's retelling
* an early attempt at writing a science fiction story.
* too many intoxicating substances 
* etc
i think people who are fascinated by the subject are usually too quick to jump at the UFO hypothesis.
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#1271646 - 01/12/14 01:34 PM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: moontan]
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havlicek
Planeteer
Registered: 05/26/02
Posts: 6738
Loc: East Hampton, NY
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Well, one would think that modern humans living technological societies would know the difference between atomic and nuclear. All the reactors and basically all the bombs these days are nuclear. For some reason, the general public inaccurately uses the terms "atomic" and "nuclear" interchangeably.
Well, people call all tissue "Kleenex" too. I don't see why conversational conventions are a problem or indicative of the fall of western society. No matter.
But I suppose this is unsurprising in a country in which religions stands in opposition to science, where near half of all Americans neither believes in (nor understands) the theory of evolution and natural selection. What can one says where one in five American adults think the sun orbits the Earth, only half know how long it takes for the Earth to revolve around the Sun, and only 59% of adults know that dinosaurs and humans never co-existed (the “Flinstones model of prehistory”).
It seems to me that you're getting way out in front of what's going on here. There's a way to talk about technology/science/math etc. that allows for different backgrounds and understandings without dumbing things down. My best professors did that, making sometimes very dry subjects come alive. I've also had wonderful (and enlightening) discussions with people who were experts in their field, but managed to get their points across when I knew very little about the nuts and bolts...and those were often NOT academic subjects (ie: tradespeople taking the time to explain things to me).
Don't get me wrong here, it's important to be precise with language...just not past a certain point, and it doesn't need to be a barrier or indicative of anything more than a person not be "fluent" or even conversant in the subject.
-john
_________________________
"anyone who believes that what they think is so important they will post political messages in a no-politics forum, only highlights their assholiness"
-John Havlicek (from "How To Spot An Internet Idiot", © 2012)
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#1271648 - 01/12/14 01:46 PM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: moontan]
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Blue Roots
Planeteer
Registered: 09/23/00
Posts: 12120
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other things it could be: * a dream he's retelling * an early attempt at writing a science fiction story. * too many intoxicating substances * etc
or...
* pointless nonsense that takes up precious time which could be spent doing something meaningful or beneficial
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#1271649 - 01/12/14 01:54 PM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: Blue Roots]
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fabulousthunderbird
Planeteer
Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 24511
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I used to eat Atomic Fireballs.
_________________________
"They walk among us, my son. By their ill-conceived and poorly executed facial hair shall ye know them..."
I am fonts
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#1271654 - 01/12/14 02:17 PM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: Blue Roots]
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moontan
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 04/16/99
Posts: 31933
Loc: Sol III
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#1271655 - 01/12/14 02:31 PM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: moontan]
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fabulousthunderbird
Planeteer
Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 24511
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[img]https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSoJCpHQoiigJHVsmpA9FdUPGWEFo4gxDSav_t6wBBM5VyykYlr[/img]
_________________________
"They walk among us, my son. By their ill-conceived and poorly executed facial hair shall ye know them..."
I am fonts
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#1271656 - 01/12/14 02:32 PM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: fabulousthunderbird]
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fabulousthunderbird
Planeteer
Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 24511
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Crap.
_________________________
"They walk among us, my son. By their ill-conceived and poorly executed facial hair shall ye know them..."
I am fonts
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#1271669 - 01/12/14 05:29 PM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: moontan]
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slotz
Planeteer
Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 18911
Loc: Colleyville, Tx
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i think it's always good to keep a sceptical mind, especially when it comes to UFO. take the story of Ezekiel in the Bible for example. lots of people think Ezekiel is telling a sighting of a UFO. it could be very well be. other things it could be: * a dream he's retelling * an early attempt at writing a science fiction story. * too many intoxicating substances * etc i think people who are fascinated by the subject are usually too quick to jump at the UFO hypothesis.
This is the main fallacy I have had with the bible.....there is no accounting of intoxicants.
Every time I read a story when an angel appears in a dream, or watching someone ascend into heaven, raise the dead, etc.......I think.....wine, shrooms, poppys, weed.......it certainly was around.
I bet those people were baked 90% of the time....
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FJBAKH
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#1271691 - 01/12/14 09:47 PM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: slotz]
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SkyWave
Planeteer
Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 14766
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havlicek: I don't see why conversational conventions are a problem or indicative of the fall of western society. No matter. . . . There's a way to talk about technology/science/math etc. that allows for different backgrounds and understandings without dumbing things down. My best professors did that, making sometimes very dry subjects come alive.
Well, I do not know why you would defend ignorance. Do you not get that a citizenry too ignorant to know the difference between "atomic" and "nuclear" will also be too ignorant to to influence energy policy, too ignorant to understand the problems with nuclear power plants, and too ignorant to understand the biological effects of ionizing radiation? When talking about these issues with Europeans, they know the difference between "atomic" and "nuclear" --- why should Americans not be as knowledgeable? No real democracy can exist when the people are ignorant, which is why the USA has devolved into plutocracy.
Further, I gave a simplified explanation about fusion in response to another planeteer's question, which will be repeated here in part. Maybe you will learn something:
"Mike, I know a lot more about fission than fusion. But yes, you are right, the military has been looking into fusion for bombs since the 40s, and the civilian sector has been looking at fusion since the 50s.
The main practical problems with fusion are (1) That it takes more energy to ignite the fusion reaction than the reaction produces; and (2) that controlled fusion reactions so far have been unable to create self-sustaining fusion reactions.
Basically, it takes a lot of energy to force atomic nuclei to fuse. Think: the nucleus has a positive charge from its proton(s) and just like the positive poles of two magnets resist being put together, so do two positively-charged nuclei resist fusing. If you are using more energy to get the fusion to happen than the energy being released by the fusion, obviously fusion makes no financial or energetic sense. Research continues (a great way to get grant money) but no fusion plants operate.
The scientists and citizens focused on protecting life from ionizing radiation are these days mostly focused on dealing with the huge amount of nuclear waste being produced daily. Not only is the waste dangerously radioactive, spent fuel pools and other temporary storage are very vulnerable to attacks. The Union of Concerned Scientists are these days trying to pass legislation requiring that spent fuel rods now in temporary cooling pools at nuclear plants be transferred to on-site dry cask storage. This makes it less likely to get radioactive water into the ground and groundwater and less vulnerable to attack.
Most of the scientists, physicists and astrophysicists I speak with about fusion are skeptical that we will be able to design a fusion plant that will generate more energy than it will consume. They are not optimistic about achieving usable nuclear fusion energy.
/ / / /
And there is further discussion of nuclear power issues in the recent Fukushima thread, if you are interested.
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#1271697 - 01/12/14 11:11 PM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: SkyWave]
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havlicek
Planeteer
Registered: 05/26/02
Posts: 6738
Loc: East Hampton, NY
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No need to explain fusion to me, I'm fairly certain I'm easily as well versed on the subject as you are. I'm pretty good with language as well, but you're off the charts on all this. Your assertions concerning Europeans, Democracy and general knowledge would be laughable if they weren't so revealing. Before, I said I didn't know who you were, unfortunately, now I do(and the list grows longer every day).
-john
_________________________
"anyone who believes that what they think is so important they will post political messages in a no-politics forum, only highlights their assholiness"
-John Havlicek (from "How To Spot An Internet Idiot", © 2012)
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#1271704 - 01/13/14 12:01 AM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: havlicek]
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Ismellelephant
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 56476
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I think I just spotted an Internet Idiot.
_________________________
We're all gonna lose an eye!!!
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#1271710 - 01/13/14 12:34 AM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: Ismellelephant]
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SkyWave
Planeteer
Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 14766
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It seems to me that you're getting way out in front of what's going on here. There's a way to talk about technology/science/math etc. that allows for different backgrounds and understandings without dumbing things down. My best professors did that, making sometimes very dry subjects come alive. Don't get me wrong here, it's important to be precise with language...just not past a certain point....-john
What is your problem, havlicek? First you whine that I was not explaining things simply, so then I showed you the simple explanation of fusion ---- and now you are whining about that??? Get a life.
You may think imprecise language is OK, but no, it is not, especially in science. It denotes ignorance and an ignorant citizenry is unfit for democratic rule. Also, note Mark Twain who said: "The difference between the almost right word and the right word is really a large matter — ’tis the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning."
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#1271718 - 01/13/14 01:35 AM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: havlicek]
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fabulousthunderbird
Planeteer
Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 24511
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And there's your dagger.
_________________________
"They walk among us, my son. By their ill-conceived and poorly executed facial hair shall ye know them..."
I am fonts
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#1271724 - 01/13/14 01:56 AM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: fabulousthunderbird]
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AL
the last rock hope
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 04/16/99
Posts: 76338
Loc: Walmartville
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I think it's silly to accuse SkyWave of being an anonymous troll. A lot of people here use handles. I also don't think she's particularly bringing down some sort of abrasive thing that she wouldn't say to you face to face. Now I know her stance that we're pretty much all ignorant is kind of goofy but Havlicek, since you're one of the creepiest people on this forum, you're the last one who should be casting aspersions on her.
_________________________
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America's greatest institution is the NFL.
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#1271726 - 01/13/14 02:02 AM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: havlicek]
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SkyWave
Planeteer
Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 14766
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Who said I have a problem? Well, actually...there is that little thing I have against pompous, poseur, douchebag, wannabes that use the internet to get their alternate identity ya yas out because they most likely can't get anyone to pay attention to their meaningless ramblings in the actual world. You fit that description to a T. Please don't feel offended by what I just said though. Just take it as "one down" on the cosmic scoreboard. I'm sure you'll live to be annoying another day, just not to me! Now go away whoever or whatever you are  john
Look, you started this by saying that it was perfectly OK to confuse and not know the difference between the meaning of atomic and nuclear. And now that your argument has been shown to be entirely lame and baseless and indefensible, all you can do is attack the person who bested you in argument. Maybe you can get a job on Rush Limbaugh's staff.
You have now gone on record as defending ignorance. Yay! No wonder this will be the Chinese century.
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#1271727 - 01/13/14 02:14 AM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: SkyWave]
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AL
the last rock hope
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 04/16/99
Posts: 76338
Loc: Walmartville
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Havlicek is a beacon for ignorance. haha
_________________________
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America's greatest institution is the NFL.
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#1271728 - 01/13/14 02:18 AM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: havlicek]
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Ismellelephant
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 56476
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Who said I have a problem? Well, actually...there is that little thing I have against pompous, poseur, douchebag, wannabes that use the internet to get their alternate identity ya yas out because they most likely can't get anyone to pay attention to their meaningless ramblings in the actual world. You fit that description to a T. Please don't feel offended by what I just said though. Just take it as "one down" on the cosmic scoreboard. I'm sure you'll live to be annoying another day, just not to me! Now go away whoever or whatever you are -john
HAHA you just described yourself on here perfectly.
_________________________
We're all gonna lose an eye!!!
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#1271778 - 01/13/14 01:30 PM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: Ismellelephant]
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havlicek
Planeteer
Registered: 05/26/02
Posts: 6738
Loc: East Hampton, NY
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...coming from the one guy who's dumb enough to call himself a "musicologist" but has no idea what a tuner does...and the other that no one pays attention to or takes seriously, this really stings! You three should start a club where you sit around at your weekly meetings and pretend to be stuff.
-john
_________________________
"anyone who believes that what they think is so important they will post political messages in a no-politics forum, only highlights their assholiness"
-John Havlicek (from "How To Spot An Internet Idiot", © 2012)
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#1271786 - 01/13/14 02:57 PM
Re: Nazca Lines
[Re: havlicek]
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moontan
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 04/16/99
Posts: 31933
Loc: Sol III
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anyway,
if we can stop the bickering and go back to the topic.
we are already starting to figure out how those things can fly and travel between the stars.
very advanced civilizations would probably be using warp bubbles (Alcubierre drive) and use the energy of the vacuum (Zero Point energy) to power all that.
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