But yeah, Tao makes great points. For those who've taken the plunge on home recording, I don't think they see the sense in investing all that money just to track at home and send it off to get mixed elsewhere.

12 songs would then be $1200. for that money I could buy other gear that would make my next albums and this album better.

This is another example of how little AL knows about how anything works in the music biz....and how frankly...is the combination of ignorance AND low IQ--fucking idiot? It that the scientific term for that combo?

He's not wrong that 99.9% of all music label or otherwise ends up with boxes of CDs in warehouses or attics respective to which way it's financed. Except he doesn't know that about label releases. He thinks that's an indie "issue". You know-labels were horrible and useless, not that I have any idea what they do. Sad and unfortunately typical.

I have tried before to have discussions about how we make this work going forward--production of a record costs money. Period. If we, as a community, can't figure out how to recoup min wage....when we'd rather sink hundreds into drum software and upgrades than drummers...we truly will wind up in an amateur only music world. Which has been your goal all along, AL--Everytime we've engaged about ANY way for indie artists to make money, you've shit all over the principle. So, much so that I've simply stopped. You've shown your true colors. You don't dislike me....you dislike the mingling of commerce with music....you live a world of delusion that the music you hold so dear wasn't the direct result of that. You're not interested in how we as musicians move into this new reality...you're an anarchist who just wants amateur hour, where your brand of garbage is better tolerated.

So, Al, if I pay a couple hundred bones to get my stuff mastered - at my own choosing - am I getting, uh, ripped off?

What about the disc makers of the world? That cost me good money and I'm pretty sure my projects didn't cover those costs.

***Whether or not it's "worth it" for any one person is besides the point. That person could be (for example) a tone deaf dork living in fantasy land who hasn't a snowball's chance in hell as an artist, but that's neither here nor there.

By calling Pop's work...and the little he's charging a ripoff, you're not only screwing with his "wallet", which is amazingly uncool, even for a complete dick like you Al, you're also jumping in to a thread that has nothing whatsoever to do with you to insult him.

I find it pathetic the way you've shit on indie artists and condescended to amateurs all these years and now you want their money.

you truly are a self-serving delusional fucking moron Al, Scott, whatever. The difference here for your edification is that recording engineers are not typically credentialled and earn their stripes by doing the work, as with many other crafts. Musicologists earn their title and all it implies by studying advanced courses and by peer review. Interesting that you are the biggest fucking fraud in all of this and trying to cover your bullshit. Get a fucking real life asshole, no one believes your fantasy.

-john

I see Popmann as a charlatan but never saw him trying to peddle his reputation here to cash in til this thread.

I know I'd advise indies to learn how to do it themselves, since the odds of them getting a worthwhile return on their investment would be astronomical.

I resent your tone, ass clown. You've turned what was simply meant to be an efficient "last call if you've got something in the chute"...into some sort sinister bullshit.

Now, maybe Doug could come along and debate the already decided--what a fucking talentless know nothing asshole you are and make this a seven page thread of the two of measuring your sphincters dispersion capability.

so you feel your own production is sub-standard ? or you just don't like that end of the process ?

I remember when DAG was mixing his album himself, he would do a mix and post it, I tried to honest with him, there was something missing bass wasn't right etc.

Pop mixed it and took to it to that next level. I don't what he did but it is now one of my favorites to listen to!

Thanks Dave and Jamie!

Pete

They would get a worthwhile return on their investment almost 100% certain. He can mix with at least the ability that someone should pay 100 bucks for per song. That isn't even really a debatable point. If someone is in the market to have this part of the job done well at a good price, this guy can certainly beyond doubt deliver that.
But most of us are not in the market because we are not really bucks up, and we know our albums won't likely recoup the cost, but that isn't due to anything wrong with his mix service.

He is advertising something he can actually deliver, so what's the problem? There is no tender innocent crowd of indies that need protection from getting fleeced here. Anyone taking him up on this transaction knows what a bitch mixing is and how well they do it, and many may well rather have someone else do it well for them at that price or even higher.

I very likely would do it all the time if I had spare cash. Much rather record new stuff than mix.

He can mix with at least the ability that someone should pay 100 bucks for per song. That isn't even really a debatable point. If someone is in the market to have this part of the job done well at a good price, this guy can certainly beyond doubt deliver that.

I think Jamie should charge $500 a song or more and look the part of a pro who is worth it. That would price out the wishy washy whiners and get better paying gigs from folks who need something that stands apart from our home-based army of hacks.

I can't even imagine doing a mix for 100 bux unless that shit came in organized and documented, pretty spanky clean and needed some effects and EQ added, and artist input was limited to "keep this or that instrument prominent." As said before, one could tie up a few hours' time just doing setup and admin/customer service bull shit. As a 1099 non-employee, there aint shit to be made in projects that pay like that if you have to pay for gubmint-mandated withholdings and such. At least mixing audio doesn't much require driving and car maintenance.

And all the examples of this actually happening out there are where?

But of course....I am just saying all of this because I am a suck....even though I have had almost no interaction with pop in my 3 years here....I'm sure it is only because I am trying to suck up to him so he will like me....because that is really all I care about Then again, maybe I am just saying all of this because I have been influenced by the other 'sacred cows' here because I can't think for myself

There is no tender innocent crowd of indies that need protection from getting fleeced here.