#13381 - 02/05/07 07:17 AM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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James T
Space Cadet
Registered: 09/25/06
Posts: 5
Loc: IL
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I am using windows 98se, will this work with the programs and how does one set up the extractor to get the files off the back up disk. I am using my vs1824cd and would love to get these files in wav. format. Can you help me. Also I am very interested in sending a donation for the efforts of the gentlemen who created this process. I can't send much, but they put a lot of time in this. I have not even used it successfully but I believe in the process of creating selflessly. And they have. A mailing address would be nice to send a donation to. Thanks
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#13382 - 02/07/07 04:06 AM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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bear
Planeteer
Registered: 10/25/99
Posts: 6537
Loc: abq,nm,usa
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@James T - the cd rip portion of the cd2roland program will not work on win98...the underlying windows API calls are 2k and XP only.
However if you can create a .iso file of the CD using another program, cd2roland should work to extract the roland files from the .iso OK. This has been discussed in other threads......
I do not know if reaper works under 98 or if Danielos wav extracter works under 98.....
Surely you have access to a XP machine somewhere?
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#13383 - 02/12/07 03:42 PM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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jjk5443
Planeteer
Registered: 03/22/01
Posts: 56
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This is soo cool...can't beleive I'm looking at tracks ripped from a MTP project. I have a small Sun hd that makes things a bit nicer too. I will be restoring/downloading/uploading for weeks probably, 7 years of material on (at times) 3 sync'ed Rolands. (god knows how many virtual tracks...and of course there track sheets for all of it...lol)I want it all in wav though. As a long time reader of this bbs...my hat is off to everyones effort on the conversion process. I thought this thread died years ago. I fear my days will be limited with the 1680/1880 in the future...headed for Cubase/Motu on a specially designed PC, but the Rolands have been great and I'm already using one of them in live application for the effert bays and routing abilities...never say die!!!
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#13384 - 02/12/07 07:53 PM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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My 1680 and even the 880 have been work beasts for a real long time now..... kinda regret having sold one of a pair of 1680s a couple years ago. I used to sync up all three to do live recording of 20 channels.
I know what you're up against jjk! Aren't these guys wonderful to have figured this out and help us all out!!!!
DanT
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uptildawn
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#13385 - 02/13/07 08:30 AM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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phasingTOMsolo
Planeteer
Registered: 11/30/00
Posts: 69
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I used to use WIN98 and an old copy of Nero to do a CD COPY of my CDRWs to get them on to CD-Rs.
Since "upgrading" to XP and a newer Nero this no longer works for me...
If you're having trouble with CDRWs and have WIN98 kicking around, give that a try.
It'll cost you a disc but you'll get your tracks, and free up an RW.
I wonder if you can do an ISO rip from the CDRW and them get your tracks that way?
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#13386 - 02/13/07 10:53 AM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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Danielo
Planeteer
Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 493
Loc: Austria
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phasingTOMsolo:
This raises several questions:
>I used to use WIN98 and an old copy of Nero to do a CD COPY of my CDRWs to get them on to CD-Rs.
why didn't you burn to a CD-R the first time?
>Since "upgrading" to XP and a newer Nero this no longer works for me...
Why? Nero still can copy a CD/CD-R/CD-RW.
>I wonder if you can do an ISO rip from the CDRW and them get your tracks that way?
i cannot see a reason why this should not work.
cheers
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#13387 - 02/13/07 04:54 PM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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Originally posted by Danielo:
...
why didn't you burn to a CD-R the first time?
When I first began burning cd backups on the VS 1680 in 1997-8, prices were very high... This from an article in 1999: Disks for a CD-R drive cost between $2 and $5 each, while CD-RW disks range from $10 to $15 each.
This was one to two years after I began using this "Brand New" technology...
says Scott Elrich, product development marketing manager for TEAC's data storage products division. "You can read, write, erase and rewrite data, photos and graphics to a CD-RW a thousand times, which is useful for maintaining client records or sending regularly updated CDs to anyone with a CD-ROM drive."
With the promise of a thousand re-burns and a cost difference of only 3-5 times the cost of a cd-r, this made more economical sense to me.
Shelf life (still not confirmed, obviously, but still dubious) was claimed at anywhere from 50-200 years as well.
This media made sense, too, because the VS was spitting out bad burns and unreadable discs even back then. That, combined with the numerous revisions I would make to a song file as it progressed through stages of development, plus the occasional (even if rare) and unpredictable nature of 1680 hic-ups, made conserving and reusing discs all that more important... especially if I wanted them to be the intermediate steps from start to archive of an important session (and what session isn't important?).
I actually had a system going in which I would keep a rotating supply of about 20 cd-rw's to replace and update sessions as needed. I would then only burn cd-r copies of the sessions when they reached some "final" stage of development. The idea of being able to use these VS sessions in a pc wasn't even remotely important at the time as I was still a good 2-3 yrs. away from even owning my first pc...
DanT
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uptildawn
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#13388 - 02/13/07 05:02 PM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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Originally posted by Danielo:
phasingTOMsolo:
This raises several questions:
>I used to use WIN98 and an old copy of Nero to do a CD COPY of my CDRWs to get them on to CD-Rs.
why didn't you burn to a CD-R the first time?
>Since "upgrading" to XP and a newer Nero this no longer works for me...
Why? Nero still can copy a CD/CD-R/CD-RW.
>I wonder if you can do an ISO rip from the CDRW and them get your tracks that way?
i cannot see a reason why this should not work.
cheers
I'll give it a shot some time again just to make sure if I can get my sis' '98 pc up and running.
DanT
_________________________
uptildawn
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#13391 - 03/06/07 10:28 PM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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Thanks Bear.
Fantastic products!
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uptildawn
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#13392 - 03/13/07 05:36 PM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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me
Planeteer
Registered: 07/25/02
Posts: 375
Loc: Melbourne Australia
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Maybe i missed this bit. But is it neccessary to back the files up to cd first?
We all know how long a process that is!
why cant you just run a scsi cable to your pc?
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#13393 - 03/13/07 06:18 PM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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You can get the files to your pc from a backup cd-r, through a virtual hard drive set up using VirDis, or from a "song copy playable" from the VS to an external hard drive.
You can't hook up (without the MAJOR chance of physical damage)the scsi directly to the pc. It has something to do with both the pc and the VS trying to access the scsi as the transmitter/master kind of thing.... I don't remember the specifics, but it's something like that. This is why, when using VirDis to copy VS files to the pc, it is necessary to use a special design of scsi pc card........ In VERY layman terms. :>)
DanT
Or, in even easier to understand language..... Because it would be too easy.
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uptildawn
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#13394 - 03/13/07 06:41 PM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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me
Planeteer
Registered: 07/25/02
Posts: 375
Loc: Melbourne Australia
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Heres my problem. I guess im hoping to kill two birds with one stone.
Maybe somebody can advise the best route for me to take.
I have 4 or 5 hard drives for my 1680. each with song data on them.
I have a laptop but no recording software installed on it.
What i want to do is. extract and convert all my vs songs to wav. save them on an external drive (or something else?) Then be able to open them up when i buy a new PC with cubase installed. and play them in cubase. This will be months down the track.
The reason for this is that i am moving country. Northern hemisphere to southern so i cant take my 1680 with me. i need to travel as light as possible. so will be selling the vs and going PC based.
So what should i do?
Should i buy a scsi external hard drive. attach it to the vs and back each drive up?
The old scsi drives are enormous so to my mind this will be impractical as i will need about 80GB.
I am assuming the hard drive has to be formatted specifically for the vs files to be stored??
I am guessing it is not possible to use one of the new external 350gb drives for this as they are usb. I want to buy one to back up photos, mp3's and other files i have on my laptop to take with me. Am i right in thinking i cant also add vs files to this?
so is my only real option to back everything up to cd? or can anybody suggest a better option?
Please!
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#13395 - 03/14/07 02:25 AM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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Originally posted by me:
Heres my problem. I guess im hoping to kill two birds with one stone.
Maybe somebody can advise the best route for me to take.
I have 4 or 5 hard drives for my 1680. each with song data on them.
I have a laptop but no recording software installed on it.
What i want to do is. extract and convert all my vs songs to wav. save them on an external drive (or something else?) Then be able to open them up when i buy a new PC with cubase installed. and play them in cubase. This will be months down the track.
The reason for this is that i am moving country. Northern hemisphere to southern so i cant take my 1680 with me. i need to travel as light as possible. so will be selling the vs and going PC based.
So what should i do?
Should i buy a scsi external hard drive. attach it to the vs and back each drive up?
The old scsi drives are enormous so to my mind this will be impractical as i will need about 80GB.
I am assuming the hard drive has to be formatted specifically for the vs files to be stored??
I am guessing it is not possible to use one of the new external 350gb drives for this as they are usb. I want to buy one to back up photos, mp3's and other files i have on my laptop to take with me. Am i right in thinking i cant also add vs files to this?
so is my only real option to back everything up to cd? or can anybody suggest a better option?
Please!
I think you'll get more help that way and not divert the point of this thread.....
although this is just my opinion.
I am starting the new thread I suggested and will answer best as I can.
Sorry to be presumptuous.
DanT
See "Help ME with backup dilemma"
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uptildawn
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#13396 - 03/15/07 01:18 AM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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c.scarlet
Space Cadet
Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 4
Loc: Germany, Berlin
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Hi everybody!
1. Do you know which format would be used, if you are record in the master mode (8Tracks no compression)?
2. Is it possible to extract and convert the VS1680 datafiles, when you take the harddrive out of the VS1680 and connect it via an USB/Firewire case to your computer?
Thanks alot
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#13397 - 03/15/07 08:11 PM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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MAS mode is 16 bit.
In many people's opinions, the MTP mode is the smoother and better sounding record mode. It's files are converted to 24 bit wav.
I personally never like MAS mode. I find it slightly harsh and brittle sounding. I think it doesn't begin to compare to MTP mode. It was originally the highest mode setting for the 880 and was included in the 1680.
Check out the "Help ME..." thread for a current discussion that deals specifically with the question about using the VS drive itself in a usb drive case. I'm still up in the air on it, but at least one person says it's worked for them.
DanT
_________________________
uptildawn
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#13398 - 03/17/07 03:43 PM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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me
Planeteer
Registered: 07/25/02
Posts: 375
Loc: Melbourne Australia
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has any one had this happen?
I have 2-3 songs on each back up disc. when i rip them there are heaps of files. one of which is a .txt file for each song.
sometimes theres two in each folder ie. song1.txt song2.txt.
it looks like some of the data is getting mixed up?
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#13399 - 03/17/07 04:22 PM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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me
Planeteer
Registered: 07/25/02
Posts: 375
Loc: Melbourne Australia
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Once you have the reaper file is it ok to delete all the other files from the ripper?
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#13400 - 03/17/07 04:40 PM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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bear
Planeteer
Registered: 10/25/99
Posts: 6537
Loc: abq,nm,usa
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@me - the ripper will make directories called SONGx (where x is some number), one for each song it finds on the backup set. After you rip a backup set YOU MUST MOVE THESE DIRECTORIES to somewhere else, because a second backup set may ALSO CONTAIN A SONGx, and then the files from the two will jumble together.....
NO you cannot delete the roland files. The reaper file you save is just a description that tells the project where to find files....it still needs the roland files
If you render all tracks to .wav, then build the reaper project with these .wavs, THEN you can delete the roland files if you wish....
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#13401 - 03/17/07 04:44 PM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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me
Planeteer
Registered: 07/25/02
Posts: 375
Loc: Melbourne Australia
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thanks bear. i think thats whats happenning. 2 songs with the same file.
so what i have done is. rip the songs from cd then move the song folders to a seperate location.
BUT some aremissing event files etc. how can this be?
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#13402 - 03/17/07 09:12 PM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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I've experienced a bit of trouble getting all of the necessary song files to be ripped from the cd sometimes. Sometimes I'll get the songx directory folder and inside it will be the event list and the text file, but no song.vr6 and no take files.
I haven't taken the time yet to track down the exact cause, but at least in my case, this may be due sometimes to which burner ( I have two on both pcs) I use to extract the files from the cd-r.
In fact, last weekend I tried to load these up on my recording pal's pc to show him how everything works, but we couldn't get the CD2Roland extract to work at all. I created batch files for both his drives and the drives were recognized but the DOS window would quickly disappear after showing the drive info.... in fact, so quickly that we couldn't read anything else that was typed onto the screen before it closed. I brought the same cd backup home and loaded it without incident onto my own pc..... What's up with that?
DanT
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uptildawn
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#13403 - 03/17/07 09:46 PM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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Originally posted by me:
...so what i have done is. rip the songs from cd then move the song folders to a seperate location....
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uptildawn
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#13404 - 03/17/07 11:07 PM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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Well, just ran a couple of tests to see if I could figure out why I sometimes get partial extractions....
I extracted the same VS cd-r backup disc on four cd burners... two of the dvd-rw burners, actually.
Three of the extractions went fine, but the fourth one wouldn't work at all. In fact, it did the same thing to me that happened on my buddy's pc as I described in an earlier post.
I originally extracted this song using an older version of cd2roland... 14b... I received this partial message in the dos window:
Drive type is recognised as CDROM/DVD.
Sending SPC1 Test Unit CDB6 command..done.
Returned good status.
Sending read TOC command..done.
Sense data, key:ASC:ASCQ: 05:24:00
Could not read TOC!
Aborting process.
Input .iso or .hex File Not Found
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I then installed the latest version.... 15b.... and tried again. This time I got this info, when the extraction failed again:
Sending SPC1 Test Unit CDB6 command..done.
Sense data, key:ASC:ASCQ: 02:30:00
Sending SPC1 Test Unit CDB6 command..done.
Sense data, key:ASC:ASCQ: 02:30:00
Sending SPC1 Test Unit CDB6 command..done.
Sense data, key:ASC:ASCQ: 02:30:00
Drive is not ready!
Aborting process.
Input .iso or .hex File Not Found
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Different info, but appeared to me to be the same trouble.
I hope this information is helpful and if I can add any more or help figure out this inconsistency in any other way, please let me know.
Otherwise, and at any rate, I am SOOOO grateful for the ingenuity that went into the creation of these tools..... They have extended the life of countless VS recorders by years, I'm sure!!!
DanT
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uptildawn
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#13405 - 03/17/07 11:40 PM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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bear
Planeteer
Registered: 10/25/99
Posts: 6537
Loc: abq,nm,usa
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@uptildawn.... the inner ways of windows are deep and mysterious..... take it up with Bill Gates... 
I really do not know enough about the underlying Windows API calls in the low level sector read portion of my program to say why your drive is not working.... The whole chunk of sector read code is something I found on the internet and is something I barely understand. I can see from your screen dump that the call
DeviceIoControl(hVolume,
IOCTL_SCSI_PASS_THROUGH_DIRECT,
(PVOID)&sptd_sb, (DWORD)sizeof(sptd_sb),
(PVOID)&sptd_sb, (DWORD)sizeof(sptd_sb),
&dwBytesReturned,
NULL);
What I suggest you do is use a .iso creation program (like alcohol120% or ultraISO - links were posted earlier in this thread), and then run the cd2roland program on the .iso file instead of the cd itself
Funkybeat even found that just installing alcohol made his setup work directly on CD's when it would not before (alcohol must have installed a driver or changed a registry setting somewhere that made the cd2roland program happy)
On the matter of incorrectly ripped projects I really do not know what to tell you. If the backup is on multiple CD's THEY MUST be ripped in order....
Other than that I do not have a clue. I have no spec of how the file structure on a backup is setup, everything I have done is from empirically looking at raw hex dumps of CD backups that I had, or were supplied to me from various people.... lots of guessing was involved. It is very easy to imagine something was missed that happens in some backups.
If you can send me a copy of a backup that does not work correctly I would be happy to look at it and figure out why it does not work. Currently the program works on all of my computers (6 different drives in 4 machines) on every backup I have.
If you do an .iso rip as I was talking about above, a CD could be made from this .iso to send me....
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#13406 - 03/18/07 05:33 AM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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I'll try the iso thing, as well as the Alcohol, which I downloaded but hadn't tried installing (over a month ago).
It's funny that another backup disc of a different project extracted just fine from all four drives, yet the one drive keeps rejecting this ONE disc. And on my buddy's machine, it wouldn't work for this project from three different backup discs all created separately, using the Roland (old QVC) burner. His burner doesn't get abused at all and even though it's one of the original 2x burners, it's been very reliable (if painfully slow for me anyway).
I'll see what I can do Sunday and maybe get back to you about sending the bad files.
DanT
Got a lot of patience, I imagine, to go through all the work you have to make this thing happen... I've been burned at Roland for years about this... Glad somebody cares.
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uptildawn
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#13407 - 03/18/07 06:49 PM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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Schwax
Space Cadet
Registered: 03/18/07
Posts: 3
Loc: Germany
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Hello there, I have access to the .VR6-files on hard-drive, but I don't have a CD-burner. Neither the rdac2wav-programme nor the mtp2wav-programme works. What is the problem? Is there a possibility to convert .VR-files from harddisc directly or do I have to "emulate" a cd backup of my VS 1680?
Greets, Max
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#13408 - 03/19/07 06:56 AM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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bear
Planeteer
Registered: 10/25/99
Posts: 6537
Loc: abq,nm,usa
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Use reaper with Randygo's .dll. Just open the SONG.VR6 in reaper under the file menu...
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#13409 - 03/19/07 11:44 AM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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Schwax
Space Cadet
Registered: 03/18/07
Posts: 3
Loc: Germany
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Yeah, I did that, but it didn't work! The songs are saved as mt2 or mt1 on the VS 1680. I have the VS-plugin for Reaper (Vers. 1.83) and I can open the vr6-files, but if I play the project, there will be only noise out of it. A friend also installed Reaper with the plugin and had also only noise.
I uploaded the vr6-files:
http://insane.gravedigger.de/Smooth%20Down/SONG.zip
Now you can try to open the Song.VR6 directly into Reaper. Does it work?
Do you have an unregistered version of Reaper? Maybe this is my problem...
Greets, Max
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#13411 - 03/20/07 04:41 AM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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I just tried in Reaper, but only got two takes, both a rhythm guitar track.
The extracted song folder only contained two TAKE files, but lots of other stuff, including automix and mixer files...
VSwaveExport reported a TON of errors when converting the virtual tracks to wave files and although there were a lot of wave files, there was no sound in WinAmp when I played them... they all showed over three minutes of time in the WinAmp display, however.
DanT
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uptildawn
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#13412 - 03/20/07 11:58 AM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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Schwax
Space Cadet
Registered: 03/18/07
Posts: 3
Loc: Germany
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OK, I have solved the problem. For all of the others who have the same problem:
I had also the reaper_mtp-plugin in my folder and that was the problem! The VR6-files were decoded as MTPs so that it was the wrong type and I heard only noise.
Delete the mtp-plugin and do only "install" the VS-plugin.
Greets, Max
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#13413 - 03/20/07 01:52 PM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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c.scarlet
Space Cadet
Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 4
Loc: Germany, Berlin
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Thanks for all these excellent Tools!
I got a MAC and I could handle all that stuff with Virtual PC.
Is there a place for donations?
!!!Thanks again!!!
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#13414 - 03/20/07 07:00 PM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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That's great news scarlet!(should have said Schwax )
Unfortunately, it doesn't solve the problem I had in Reaper. I only have the one reaper-vs.dll... installed. When I opened your file in Reaper, I got one complete track (consisting of two takes). The other tracks were populated with blank regions.
DanT
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uptildawn
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#13415 - 03/22/07 06:46 AM
Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
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dabeatman
Space Cadet
Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 5
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i was wondering if this process is possible if i backup to a zip drive then from the zip through the computer?
the reason i'm asking; when hurricane katrina hit i wasn't able to retrieve my equipment 2 months later. by that time the house was looted and my cdr-2 was stolen. luckly not my 1680, mpc2000/zip100, asr-10, qs7, and mackie 1202vlz. i've have recently purchased an pro-tools m-box to use with my 1680. i'm thinking why should i spend at least $150.00 on a used cdr-2 for the 1680 when my end product will come out of pro-tools. i have a zip drive that i use with my mpc2000. it came across me but i'm not sure, that i can back-up to a zip drive. my manuals got soaked, so can't check there to be sure.
so if it is possible to back-up to zip and be able to do the conversion that would save some me $$'s.
thanks for any advivce.
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