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#852487 - 04/20/09 10:45 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: VSfredy]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
He's dead, Jim.
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#852489 - 04/20/09 10:55 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: bathhunger]
VSfredy Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 49
Loc: Washington, USA
A couple things to check. One dead VS-840 I had the zip IDE cable part way off. It would not do a thing without the cable in place. It was cocked slightly and apparently the marginal connection hung the OS during the bootup.
Another thing: CHECK your power supply voltage. Many a time coincidence failure pf a power supply has led me on a merry chase... So do check it... Is there anything displayed at all in the display?

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#852496 - 04/20/09 11:41 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
 Originally Posted By: Cornjerker

are you referring to me?? am i a goner?
_________________________
DrJugband

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#852557 - 04/21/09 08:44 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Levity my friend, levity ... ;\)
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#852582 - 04/21/09 10:12 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
jim y Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 2579
Fascinating, Captain.
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#852782 - 04/21/09 07:08 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: jim y]
dhart Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/19/01
Posts: 569
Loc: albany, ny
I'm a Doctor, Jim, not a Roland service tech!
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#852854 - 04/21/09 11:20 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: dhart]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
We've GOT to RISK a FULL-POWER start!
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#852978 - 04/22/09 09:58 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
VSfredy Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 49
Loc: Washington, USA
I would like to find a busted VS-840 for peanuts to try and restore it. Thinking about putting logic analyzer on one to observe the bootup.

Currently have an 880 all apart waiting for new sliders from Mouser. The 880 ones are different than the 840 sliders. They are 60mm travel instead of 45mm and different configuration. Iwill report on that one when done.

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#853439 - 04/23/09 12:22 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
jim y Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 2579
I think a power supply fault ought to result in nothing working - not even a message on the LCD, since the 840 operation including disc seems to be powered mainly by 5volts, the other 2 supplies ( +12v & -12v ?) are (I think) for the audio circuits.
Jack - do you have service sheets that show the power supply arrangement?

I've recently seen a VS880 with a PSU fault although the supplies tested ok when disconnected from the boards. The owner was only interested in getting his songs off the fixed hard drive (successfully done) so I didn't pursue fixing it. I missed a trick there, I should have asked if I could keep the machine for spares. Duh!

Scotty

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#853512 - 04/23/09 02:57 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: jim y]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
No Jim, the Service manual (that I can tell) does not indicate the output voltages of the PSU - it is AC 117 V, AC 230 V, AC 240V, consumption 20 W, find no. 3 on the exploded view, Roland p/n 01451678 or 01785823, "Switching Regulator KW1AA265" or "Switching Regulator A1DU2L3B034", respectively.

PS - I have a 5 gal batch of English Bitters in the carboy and will bottle next Wednesday after the sediment settles out completely. It'll be ready to drink in 3-4 weeks. Shall I expect you? ;^)

Jack

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#853580 - 04/23/09 05:06 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
jim y Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 2579
If you used malted barley, hops and stirred thrice widdershins - maybe. Did you remember to add a slice of Manglewurzel?

Don't forget - Ale is drunk at room temperature. This is because you are expected to enjoy the flavour and not have your taste buds numbed out as you have to with chilled beer. Don't worry, you can still get drunk as a Lord.

;\)

Jim

PS - Some of the above is untrue.

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#853593 - 04/23/09 05:15 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: jim y]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
It's still a fairly new hobby for me, Jim, so I haven't done any all-grain brewing. It's the 60 minute boil kits I'm using with malt extract with steeped grains and hops ... though the hour long boil kits take about 3-1/2 hours from start to primary fermentor as the grain steep (30 minutes) is before the hour long boil - takes about 20-30 minutes to bring the water up to steep temp and another 10 to bring it to boil and about 20-30 minutes to cool to room temp and strain into the fermenter ... still it's fun and makes a nice beer ... perhaps one of these days I'll get into it enough to design my own beers and grow hops ...

But for now, I'm satisfied to drink it and piss like a fire-hose ... ;\)

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#853840 - 04/24/09 10:26 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: jim y]
VSfredy Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 49
Loc: Washington, USA
Jim, I have seen so many problems due to marginal power supplies in electronic equipment I can't count them!

EVEN putting a dummy load on a supply does NOT guarantee it will operate the equipment.

The SAFE way to check a power supply: Connected to the normal load it operates, use a meter to verify voltage level is within at least 5% of the design. For the 5 volt supplies, I like to see it within the range of 4.85 to 5.15 volts to be safe. Some equipment have a voltage sensor chip to reset if the power is too low. We aren't done yet... Next we use an oscilloscope to verify the power is clean DC. Can't tell you how many I have seen where voltage reads right but dips or spikes below the threshold of operation of the device causing failure.

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#859727 - 05/12/09 12:32 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: VSfredy]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
I've tried several permutations of startup disc and 'am convinced that I won't be able to reflash off the zip drive. The error message actually flashes up as the zip drive fires up, so doesn't even wait to read it. I've tried the 1.02v and 1.05v system discs. Is there any likelihood that the Roland disc is anything different?
_________________________
DrJugband

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#859880 - 05/12/09 04:25 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
VSfredy Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 49
Loc: Washington, USA
Do you know for a fact the zip drive itself is OK?

Connecting it to a computer MIGHT be more forgiving than the VS-840.

Couple things to try: Degauss the zip disk before formatting in preparation of copying thee file to it.

Second thing is to try a different drivee. I have found two that had gone defective in the VS units I have.

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#860437 - 05/13/09 10:49 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: VSfredy]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
The zip drive works fine when installed in the computer (a G4 PowerMac) and whirs to life just as it used to in the VS840. I don't have a spare drive to test or the ability to reformat a disc from scratch (my VS840 isn't working). I've been working my way through previously formatted discs (and removing song files) and then writing the supplied file onto the disc and trying that. I have a disc from Roland Australia with 1.05 system on it, but that didn't solve my 'Can't Match CPU' either.
_________________________
DrJugband

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#860547 - 05/14/09 09:51 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
DrJugband - you're confirming what we've seen and concluded for several years now - that error requires a trip to Roland Service for cycling with a special 'service level' repair disk that only Roland Service has.

If I were you, I'd find someone with a PC, pull your tracks off of the ZIP 100 disks with the (PC) BR8 to WAV converter, and port them to your Mac to mix with whatever multi-track software suits you. The money you would spend to repair your 840 is probably better spent at this point on a Mac recording interface / software.

Sourceforge Audacity is available for Mac/Apple OS X if you need a free software solution for now: http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/

A USB interface such as http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200340348396 would have you up and running inexpensively ...

And I'd stuff that 840 in a closet for the day someone acquires that Roland disk and makes it available to the community or someone figures out a way to fix it without a trip to Roland Service.

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#860593 - 05/14/09 12:05 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
VSfredy Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 49
Loc: Washington, USA
Jack, do you know of a source of one of these dead units to do experiments on? I am thinking of connecting my logic analyzer up to one to try and analyze the failure to start.
If Roland won't cooperate we need to take drastic measures.
I would like to get one that I can safely cobble up to connect the analyzer... can't invest too much and if unsuccessful I look at it as a spare parts bucket. The Roland disk must just have a specific boot record for the processor in the 840...

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#860610 - 05/14/09 12:56 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: VSfredy]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
No source for a dead unit that I know of ... note that I have searched the 840 forum for the 'Bad Flash' messages and tried contacting the users who posted them to see how they made out, but none replied. One of the few users to report back that they recovered their dead 840, was GrahamPrie who is in the UK - his post / thread is here: http://www.vsplanet.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=685059#Post685059

One of these days, I'd like to phone some of the Roland authorized service centers in my area (Chicago) to see if they have the service disk and if I can acquire a copy of it.

For a source of broken 840's, best bet is probably eBay. Another place might be an electronics repair shop - there was one I used in the Fremont district when I had my old Tascam Portastudio - when they could not get the replacement part to fix it, I left it with them - they had a storage room filled with busted music gear that they used for spare parts ... wish I could think of the name of the place, but it's been 15-20 years ... perhaps if you started with the Roland US web site and located the authorized Roland service depots in your ara, one might have a dead 840 you could pick up cheap?

See http://www.rolandus.com/support/service_centers/

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#860967 - 05/15/09 09:24 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
VSfredy Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 49
Loc: Washington, USA
American Music in Fremont used to repair stuff... It was probably them or a shop servicing for them.

I will watch on eBay... everything there I have been able to fix so far.

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#865640 - 05/30/09 10:17 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: VSfredy]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
I'd be happy to dedicate my unit to science..it's the doctor in me.
If you can't source a unit closer to home, VSfredy, and can make the conversion from 240v's. Let me know...
_________________________
DrJugband

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#877788 - 07/13/09 04:43 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
VSfredy Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 49
Loc: Washington, USA
Haven't found one yet... You are a long ways away for shipping though.

I am still looking... the 240 conversion is not a problem.

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#1379417 - 03/22/15 02:48 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
goner Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 06/19/01
Posts: 9938
Loc: The Ministry of Silly Walks
 Originally Posted By: DrJugband
are you referring to me?? am i a goner?


I have met goner, and you sir, are no goner.
_________________________
goner

He's loaded up his saddlebags out on the edge of wonder
The one is filled with music and the other's filled with thunder

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