#1384301 - 04/15/15 04:52 PM
band: dealing with personalities
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iCloudius
Planeteer
Registered: 11/12/13
Posts: 1275
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where the leader simply walks all over every musician unless you continually justify your contribution
where the leader believes that creative tension must be cultivated at all times, else the music is no good
about ready to throw in the towel with this band
good music, good musicians but this obsession with fostering creative tension doesn't seem to yield the results that i know can be achieved by other means
also: the leader insists on playing every gig high, and rehearsing that way
ugh
stupid fucker
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#1384303 - 04/15/15 04:54 PM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: iCloudius]
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pbrowne
Planeteer
Registered: 06/11/99
Posts: 6415
Loc: Loveland,CO,USA
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no leader in our band and amazingly no egos - we practice every week about twice a month and have fun.
sorry for you.
_________________________
Send two dozen roses to Room 424 and put "Emily, I love you" on the back of the bill. Groucho Marx
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#1384304 - 04/15/15 05:14 PM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: pbrowne]
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SteveW
Steve White
Planeteer
Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 18405
Loc: Rhode Island
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Get out of there iC
_________________________
Steve
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#1384305 - 04/15/15 05:17 PM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: SteveW]
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iCloudius
Planeteer
Registered: 11/12/13
Posts: 1275
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yeah ... maybe .... hard because we've just recorded an album. Songs are good. Takes are good. Not quite sure about the mixing (band leader doing that).
I am curious about how the album sounds when done (another couple weeks) and mastered.
I can hang in there for a "showcase" or "album release" party. And use the opportunity to network, foster future gigs for myself.
I guess that is how I have shifted .... from a "band thing" to making this a "personal thing" and just exploiting this for myself.
that's the positive spin I am putting on this.
Maybe what I find baffling is that the leader and bass player talk about being "the big personalities" and seem to put value on that. Hinting that anyone without a "big personality" is of little value. In other words, me supplying the quiet strength I do ... which has directly resulted in them
a) finish building a studio
b) get better, high profile gigs
c) play songs that groove, rock
d) finish a record a lot easier in the past
.... in other words my professional contributions are not valued
and that puzzles me ... first time I have encountered that
indeed ... time to move on ~ when the professional advantage is mine.
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#1384308 - 04/15/15 05:30 PM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: iCloudius]
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motown59
Planeteer/Artist # 238
Planeteer
Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 17848
Loc: California
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yup, get out. rehearsing and each gig while being high..
In my experience, "big personalities" are rarely the creative types.
Creative tension? baloney. a creative environment, sure
_________________________
kel
"I love what you guys are trying to do up there" ...from an audience member at one of my gigs.
Gear: Fender Medium pick
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#1384309 - 04/15/15 05:38 PM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: motown59]
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Chimp
Planeteer
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 13625
Loc: Overland Park
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#1384354 - 04/15/15 09:24 PM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: Mooseboy]
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Arthur
WaffleMan
Planeteer
Registered: 04/22/99
Posts: 9877
Loc: a Mac of some kind
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Yep, yet another egomaniacal a-hole.... Run Forrest, run!
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#1384366 - 04/15/15 10:27 PM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: Arthur]
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iCloudius
Planeteer
Registered: 11/12/13
Posts: 1275
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thanks dudes 
this round of beer is on me
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#1384370 - 04/15/15 10:45 PM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: iCloudius]
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Marty Gilman
Official Planet Sax Monster - Planeteer/Artist # 117
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 26529
Loc: Palm Beach, Florida- U S A
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Yes, leave.
I have been a band leader all my life, only because I can't stand the way most anybody else does that job. It has worked. I believe 99% of those who worked with me would agree I did a good job
Why?
I. I got good gigs
2. limited and efficient rehearsals. No wasting of anyone's time
3. Making music was the priority
4. I know music and can communicate well as to what is needed
5. I respect my players, their skills, them personally
I will work with any leader that can do this, otherwise I can't be happy.
-m
_________________________
Can you play that an octave louder?
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#1384371 - 04/15/15 10:51 PM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: Marty Gilman]
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Doughboy
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 07/15/01
Posts: 26863
Loc: Gaylord, MI
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I would ask the other guys if they would prefer you to leave or to kick his ass out of the band.
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#1384393 - 04/16/15 01:29 AM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: Doughboy]
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The Vampire Lestat
Planeteer
Registered: 01/09/00
Posts: 4529
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I'm lucky to be with people I've worked with forever. At this point, we're like a second family. There have been arguments, but not in a very long time. Everyone's just happy to be able to still do it, and nobody cares about being paid. We're in it for the fun and creative outlet. Band practice is 70% music and 30% jokes. That's one thing I can say about playing in a band. I've made lifelong friends doing it.
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#1384395 - 04/16/15 01:42 AM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: Doughboy]
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Starliner
Planeteer
Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 3173
Loc: Florida - Dunnellon
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Life is too short to play with dickheads.
BAIL!
Starliner
_________________________
Half The Lies They Tell About Me Aren't True!
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#1384399 - 04/16/15 02:11 AM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: Starliner]
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C Jo Go
EMERITUS ~ VS Roland
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 36525
Loc: carmel valley,ca
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We know who the leader of the band is -- he transcribes all the 400+ songs to the charts -- plays lead on every song. He & his wife started the band .... We are all professional > no baggage comes to the gig.
We don't practice during the year > just our instruments individually > you just better read well.
Yours situation sounds very unhealthy.... confront or leave -- seems like your only avenue..
_________________________
Pretend creates an endless dream
**( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡° )**
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#1384412 - 04/16/15 02:53 AM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: pbrowne]
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Liquidirt
Planet Dirtball
Planeteer
Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 18693
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
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no leader in our band and amazingly no egos - we practice every week about twice a month and have fun.
sorry for you.
That's the way a band is supposed to be, like a TEAM. No leader, everyone has input. Gawd I hate people in bands that want to control every freakin aspect and I don't tolerate it.
_________________________
My wife just left me. Probably because I'm so insecure... Wait, she's back. She just went for a coffee, my bad...
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#1384423 - 04/16/15 03:45 AM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: Liquidirt]
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MadGuitrst
Planeteer
Registered: 06/10/99
Posts: 20768
Loc: 3rd Stone From The Sun
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Fuck leaving, take over the band and kick him OUT!
_________________________
MadGuitrst has left the building....but not before committing acts designed to offend the senses....
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
- Dr. Stephen R. Covey
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#1384428 - 04/16/15 04:49 AM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: MadGuitrst]
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Arthur
WaffleMan
Planeteer
Registered: 04/22/99
Posts: 9877
Loc: a Mac of some kind
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For a hobbyist or amateur band a leader can suck.
On the other hand, in a professional touring band, democracy is not a solution. There has to be a clear leader who sets the direction the band has to take. That is my personal experience anyway.
The key is good leadership. That is a gift and talent on par with musical talent.
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#1384436 - 04/16/15 08:51 AM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: Arthur]
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MadGuitrst
Planeteer
Registered: 06/10/99
Posts: 20768
Loc: 3rd Stone From The Sun
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For a hobbyist or amateur band a leader can suck.
On the other hand, in a professional touring band, democracy is not a solution. There has to be a clear leader who sets the direction the band has to take. That is my personal experience anyway.
The key is good leadership. That is a gift and talent on par with musical talent.
All good points, and a real talent it is......for the manager.
_________________________
MadGuitrst has left the building....but not before committing acts designed to offend the senses....
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
- Dr. Stephen R. Covey
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#1384445 - 04/16/15 01:30 PM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: MadGuitrst]
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motown59
Planeteer/Artist # 238
Planeteer
Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 17848
Loc: California
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Finish your commitments in a respectful manner. Then, if you'd like, explain your reasons for leaving. If you simply bail out you might be " the guy who left us hangin on a gig, recording etc" ..
_________________________
kel
"I love what you guys are trying to do up there" ...from an audience member at one of my gigs.
Gear: Fender Medium pick
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#1384447 - 04/16/15 01:40 PM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: motown59]
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Blue Roots
Planeteer
Registered: 09/23/00
Posts: 12120
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I don't understand "creative tension". What does that mean?
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#1384451 - 04/16/15 03:13 PM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: Blue Roots]
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MadGuitrst
Planeteer
Registered: 06/10/99
Posts: 20768
Loc: 3rd Stone From The Sun
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I don't understand "creative tension". What does that mean?
It means he thinks he's creative, no one else is, he's the boss and everyone else will tow the line and do as he says.
_________________________
MadGuitrst has left the building....but not before committing acts designed to offend the senses....
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
- Dr. Stephen R. Covey
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#1384453 - 04/16/15 03:20 PM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: fabulousthunderbird]
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Jazzooo
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 55390
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
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Well, I'm in a couple of situations that are in some way similar, and I'm not telling you to 'leave' just yet.
I've been playing in a blues band with my favorite guitarist, as well as an excellent though occasionally frustrating drummer, a bassist who is of good will but still flubs easy tunes once in a while, and a singer who is really not very good--every song ends up shouting and he tells the same stories every fucking time he introduces songs. BUT I love hearing and playing with the guitarist; the crowd seems to like the band, and I get to roar on the organ. And honestly, I like getting the $700-$1500 pesos every time we play, helps with gas and paying our gardener.
So when I was asked to join a new band--same drummer, but a black bassist/singer from New Orleans and a guitarist from Austin for a NOLA-flavored r and b band, I was hesitant till I saw them playing last week--good fun, I thought. And they are all good players, but honestly it's a little amateurish for me. I talked with the drummer--a total pro--and we agreed that if we can elevate the other guys (which is exactly what they say they hired us for) then it's worth it. If not, then we walk.
One rehearsal the other day...the weed came out. I took one hit, but they kept smoking. The music was pretty good, but the two other guys aren't very good communicators--they each have their own shorthand about song sections, endings, and so on which no one seems to understand!
Last night was our first gig--the audience was thrilled, up and dancing, but there was really no connection between the players, everyone into their own thing, crazy last minute signals that meant nothing except to the person giving them, sloppy/fun with a little too much sloppy in the mix.
I have a decision to make now. Two groups that are only partly fun. Factor in that it is now the start of LOW SEASON in this tourist town, and work will be drying up. I like to perform and get applause and hear my toys in action; none of this is a big time suck and what else am I going to do on a Wed night for the next few months? Plus my tax bill was larger than I'd anticipated. Screw it, it's live music. Keeps me limber. I'll play with both bands as long as I can talk myself into enjoying the good and overlooking the bad. Doesn't keep me from pursuing other projects that mean more to me.
_________________________
Dougrobinson.com
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#1384455 - 04/16/15 03:36 PM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: Jazzooo]
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Waterman
Artist # 435
Planeteer
Registered: 02/20/02
Posts: 6817
Loc: Atlantic Beach, Florida
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I guess I'm lucky, I've always played in bands where we all became friends. In fact, if I never played another note with any of them we would still hang out and do other things.
Pete
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#1384464 - 04/16/15 04:20 PM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: Starliner]
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Mooseboy
That's "MR. Asshole" to you, buddy!
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 04/24/99
Posts: 37210
Loc: Black Mountain Hills of Dakota
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Life is too short to play with dickheads.
Y'know, taken out of context, this statement could be rather hilarious
_________________________
"My fingers go wiggle wiggle and the music goes jingle jangle and the crowd is happy"
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#1384475 - 04/16/15 04:55 PM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: Mooseboy]
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Tao Jones
Planeteer
Registered: 06/13/00
Posts: 15061
Loc: CA
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Some people play just fine smoking weed. Louis Armstrong always did.
How 'bout you be the leader of the drum section and he can lead his guitar and voice?
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#1384495 - 04/16/15 06:14 PM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: motown59]
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Memphis Monroe
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/12/02
Posts: 27450
Loc: Pensacola, FL
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yup, get out. rehearsing and each gig while being high..
In my experience, "big personalities" are rarely the creative types.
Creative tension? baloney. a creative environment, sure
Bingo!...Either kick "the leader" the fuck out or leave!...You're far better off....nowhere near worth putting up with that sort of bullshit...life is too short....
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#1384496 - 04/16/15 06:20 PM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: Jazzooo]
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motown59
Planeteer/Artist # 238
Planeteer
Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 17848
Loc: California
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there's a difference between deciding to stay or leave a band because the playing or unit isn't pressing any buttons. Most of the time you can tell if there is even a tunnel there, let alone a flicker of light at the end. If guys have been continually playing their axes, then you know if the skill and groove is there or not. Then maybe it's about trying to make a band unit, focusing on individual strengths.
Big difference between that and personality issues, like power tripping, belligerent, substance abusive, forgetful types. Money can become an issue. creative control can. Even who has and brings the PA can be a source of discontent.
I've rarely experienced band members or studio sessions where being high or intoxicated made someone better., ..perhaps more relaxed can result in "better" Focus and memory tend to suffer. But, I have no problem if someone comes prepared.
one of the best tools to decide how things are going is a handheld recorder or camera..
Edited by motown59 (04/16/15 06:23 PM)
_________________________
kel
"I love what you guys are trying to do up there" ...from an audience member at one of my gigs.
Gear: Fender Medium pick
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#1384514 - 04/16/15 07:08 PM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: Marty Gilman]
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Slabraton
Planeteer
Registered: 12/16/12
Posts: 16566
Loc: California
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Yes, leave.
I have been a band leader all my life, only because I can't stand the way most anybody else does that job. It has worked. I believe 99% of those who worked with me would agree I did a good job
Why?
I. I got good gigs
2. limited and efficient rehearsals. No wasting of anyone's time
3. Making music was the priority
4. I know music and can communicate well as to what is needed
5. I respect my players, their skills, them personally
I will work with any leader that can do this, otherwise I can't be happy.
-m
I agree with you and would add one IMPORTANT point: if I am the contractor, the player knows they will get their money-no if's ands or buts. I NEVER tell my players "sorry, but, we didn't get..."
Bullshit. If I hire a player, he gets paid the agreed on amount. If the check bounces, it's my problem. If he doesn't do his job, I don't call him back.
I would never waste time with the leader who thinks he can set rules. I was unaware of the Divine Right Of Bandleaders. Or is that only apply to bandleaders who reserve the right to use drugs?
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#1384542 - 04/16/15 09:59 PM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: Memphis Monroe]
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Jazzooo
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 55390
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
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"also: the leader insists on playing every gig high, and rehearsing that way"
I didn't really see that one, Cloud. That would be no fun for me. I don't kind people having a little buzz but genuinely high? There's just less connection with the other players, imo. Anyway, he sounds like a tool. I'm with Kelly--finish out your commitments and then explain your reasons for leaving. You might not be the only one in the group who feels that way.
_________________________
Dougrobinson.com
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#1384554 - 04/16/15 11:58 PM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: Jazzooo]
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Tao Jones
Planeteer
Registered: 06/13/00
Posts: 15061
Loc: CA
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Louis Armstrong was first turned onto marijuana in the mid-1920s, and he smoked it all his life, including before performances and recordings.
Piece of some of his words: "something that grows out in the backyard among the chickens and so forth,” Louis emoted in his letter. “I just won't carry on with such fear over nothing and I don't intend to ever stop smoking it, not as long as it grows. And there is no one on this earth that can ever stop it all from growing. No one but Jesus--and he wouldn't dare. Because he feels the same way that I do about it."
Louis bounced back, joking he'd "get higher next time" on a "What's My Line?" appearance shortly thereafter.
Sources:
Louis Armstrong in His Own Words, Oxford University Press, 1999
Satchmo: The Genius of Louis Armstrong, Gary Giddins, 1988
What a Wonderful World, Ricky Riccardi, 2012
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#1384555 - 04/17/15 12:01 AM
Re: band: dealing with personalities
[Re: Tao Jones]
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Tao Jones
Planeteer
Registered: 06/13/00
Posts: 15061
Loc: CA
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Stones, Beatles, Pink Floyd...and on and on.
Not that I'd ever touch it, but a world of musical geniuses did and do, and they didn't wait until later either.
Marley
Zep
Most of the people you all listen to.
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