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#1384301 - 04/15/15 11:52 AM band: dealing with personalities
iCloudius Offline
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Registered: 11/12/13
Posts: 1275
where the leader simply walks all over every musician unless you continually justify your contribution

where the leader believes that creative tension must be cultivated at all times, else the music is no good

about ready to throw in the towel with this band

good music, good musicians but this obsession with fostering creative tension doesn't seem to yield the results that i know can be achieved by other means

also: the leader insists on playing every gig high, and rehearsing that way

ugh

stupid fucker

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#1384303 - 04/15/15 11:54 AM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: iCloudius]
pbrowne Online   content
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Registered: 06/11/99
Posts: 4986
Loc: Loveland,CO,USA
no leader in our band and amazingly no egos - we practice every week about twice a month and have fun.

sorry for you.
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If you can't say anything nice about someone come sit next to me. Alice Roosevelt Longworth

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#1384304 - 04/15/15 12:14 PM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: pbrowne]
SteveW Offline
Steve White
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Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 17971
Loc: Rhode Island
Get out of there iC
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#1384305 - 04/15/15 12:17 PM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: SteveW]
iCloudius Offline
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Registered: 11/12/13
Posts: 1275
yeah ... maybe .... hard because we've just recorded an album. Songs are good. Takes are good. Not quite sure about the mixing (band leader doing that).

I am curious about how the album sounds when done (another couple weeks) and mastered.

I can hang in there for a "showcase" or "album release" party. And use the opportunity to network, foster future gigs for myself.

I guess that is how I have shifted .... from a "band thing" to making this a "personal thing" and just exploiting this for myself.

that's the positive spin I am putting on this.

Maybe what I find baffling is that the leader and bass player talk about being "the big personalities" and seem to put value on that. Hinting that anyone without a "big personality" is of little value. In other words, me supplying the quiet strength I do ... which has directly resulted in them
a) finish building a studio
b) get better, high profile gigs
c) play songs that groove, rock
d) finish a record a lot easier in the past

.... in other words my professional contributions are not valued

and that puzzles me ... first time I have encountered that

indeed ... time to move on ~ when the professional advantage is mine.

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#1384308 - 04/15/15 12:30 PM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: iCloudius]
motown59 Online   content
Planeteer/Artist # 238
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Registered: 03/01/04
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yup, get out. rehearsing and each gig while being high..

In my experience, "big personalities" are rarely the creative types.

Creative tension? baloney. a creative environment, sure
_________________________
kel

"I love what you guys are trying to do up there" ...from an audience member at one of my gigs.
Gear: Fender Medium pick

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#1384309 - 04/15/15 12:38 PM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: motown59]
Chimp Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 13625
Loc: Overland Park
LEAVE
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#1384312 - 04/15/15 12:48 PM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: Chimp]
ulank Offline
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Registered: 02/02/08
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Show up to rehearsals and gigs sans pants.

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#1384349 - 04/15/15 04:11 PM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: ulank]
Mooseboy Offline
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Registered: 04/24/99
Posts: 26146
Loc: Tite
Yep, the "bandleader" sounds like an arrogant, self-absorbed dick. Are you sure you're not in my band? ;\)
_________________________
For every cigarette you smoke, God takes a day off your life and gives it to Keith Richards.

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#1384354 - 04/15/15 04:24 PM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: Mooseboy]
Arthur Offline
WaffleMan
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Registered: 04/22/99
Posts: 9545
Loc: a Mac of some kind
Yep, yet another egomaniacal a-hole.... Run Forrest, run!
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#1384366 - 04/15/15 05:27 PM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: Arthur]
iCloudius Offline
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Registered: 11/12/13
Posts: 1275
thanks dudes \:\)

this round of beer is on me

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#1384370 - 04/15/15 05:45 PM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: iCloudius]
Marty Gilman Offline
Official Planet Sax Monster - Planeteer/Artist # 117
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Registered: 04/05/00
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Yes, leave.

I have been a band leader all my life, only because I can't stand the way most anybody else does that job. It has worked. I believe 99% of those who worked with me would agree I did a good job
Why?

I. I got good gigs
2. limited and efficient rehearsals. No wasting of anyone's time
3. Making music was the priority
4. I know music and can communicate well as to what is needed
5. I respect my players, their skills, them personally

I will work with any leader that can do this, otherwise I can't be happy.

-m

_________________________
Can you play that an octave louder?


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#1384371 - 04/15/15 05:51 PM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: Marty Gilman]
Doughboy Offline
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Registered: 07/15/01
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I would ask the other guys if they would prefer you to leave or to kick his ass out of the band.
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#1384393 - 04/15/15 08:29 PM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: Doughboy]
The Vampire Lestat Offline
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Registered: 01/09/00
Posts: 3788
I'm lucky to be with people I've worked with forever. At this point, we're like a second family. There have been arguments, but not in a very long time. Everyone's just happy to be able to still do it, and nobody cares about being paid. We're in it for the fun and creative outlet. Band practice is 70% music and 30% jokes. That's one thing I can say about playing in a band. I've made lifelong friends doing it.
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#1384395 - 04/15/15 08:42 PM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: Doughboy]
Starliner Offline
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Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2668
Loc: Florida - Dunnellon
Life is too short to play with dickheads.

BAIL!

Starliner
_________________________
Half The Lies They Tell About Me Aren't True!

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#1384399 - 04/15/15 09:11 PM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: Starliner]
C Jo Go Offline
pseudo musician
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Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 23149
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We know who the leader of the band is -- he transcribes all the 400+ songs to the charts -- plays lead on every song. He & his wife started the band .... We are all professional > no baggage comes to the gig.

We don't practice during the year > just our instruments individually > you just better read well.



Yours situation sounds very unhealthy.... confront or leave -- seems like your only avenue..
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Just suppose ...I was Juxtaposed ..

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#1384412 - 04/15/15 09:53 PM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: pbrowne]
Liquidirt Offline
kinda like mud
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Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 15609
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
 Originally Posted By: pbrowne
no leader in our band and amazingly no egos - we practice every week about twice a month and have fun.

sorry for you.


That's the way a band is supposed to be, like a TEAM. No leader, everyone has input. Gawd I hate people in bands that want to control every freakin aspect and I don't tolerate it.
_________________________
If I wanted to kill myself Id climb your ego and jump to your IQ.

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#1384423 - 04/15/15 10:45 PM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: Liquidirt]
MadGuitrst Offline
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Registered: 06/10/99
Posts: 13121
Loc: 3rd Stone From The Sun
Fuck leaving, take over the band and kick him OUT!
_________________________
My real name is MadGuitrst

"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
- Dr. Stephen R. Covey

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#1384428 - 04/15/15 11:49 PM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: MadGuitrst]
Arthur Offline
WaffleMan
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Registered: 04/22/99
Posts: 9545
Loc: a Mac of some kind
For a hobbyist or amateur band a leader can suck.
On the other hand, in a professional touring band, democracy is not a solution. There has to be a clear leader who sets the direction the band has to take. That is my personal experience anyway.
The key is good leadership. That is a gift and talent on par with musical talent.

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#1384430 - 04/16/15 02:18 AM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: Arthur]
C Jo Go Offline
pseudo musician
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Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 23149
Loc: carmel valley,ca
I for one welcome a leader ....let them handle the responsibility.

They have to book the gig /collect the $ / pay for all the PA / and they provide transportation...plus ours has to transcribe all that material >>

No fun taking say a Motown song and writing out all those four parts .. hours of behind the scene work ~!

The rest of the bands just shows up and plays...
_________________________
Just suppose ...I was Juxtaposed ..

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#1384436 - 04/16/15 03:51 AM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: Arthur]
MadGuitrst Offline
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Registered: 06/10/99
Posts: 13121
Loc: 3rd Stone From The Sun
 Originally Posted By: Arthur
For a hobbyist or amateur band a leader can suck.
On the other hand, in a professional touring band, democracy is not a solution. There has to be a clear leader who sets the direction the band has to take. That is my personal experience anyway.
The key is good leadership. That is a gift and talent on par with musical talent.


All good points, and a real talent it is......for the manager.
_________________________
My real name is MadGuitrst

"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
- Dr. Stephen R. Covey

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#1384445 - 04/16/15 08:30 AM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: MadGuitrst]
motown59 Online   content
Planeteer/Artist # 238
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Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 13146
Loc: California
Finish your commitments in a respectful manner. Then, if you'd like, explain your reasons for leaving. If you simply bail out you might be " the guy who left us hangin on a gig, recording etc" ..
_________________________
kel

"I love what you guys are trying to do up there" ...from an audience member at one of my gigs.
Gear: Fender Medium pick

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#1384447 - 04/16/15 08:40 AM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: motown59]
Blue Roots Offline
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Registered: 09/23/00
Posts: 11864
Loc: DFW
I don't understand "creative tension". What does that mean?
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Dave P

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#1384448 - 04/16/15 08:58 AM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: Blue Roots]
fabulousthunderbird Offline
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Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 21003
I have a great personality; some other person in the band always turns out to be an asshole ;\) .
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"You may be subject to fits of hysterical shouting, or even.......laughter"

I am fonts

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#1384451 - 04/16/15 10:13 AM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: Blue Roots]
MadGuitrst Offline
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Registered: 06/10/99
Posts: 13121
Loc: 3rd Stone From The Sun
 Originally Posted By: Blue Roots
I don't understand "creative tension". What does that mean?

It means he thinks he's creative, no one else is, he's the boss and everyone else will tow the line and do as he says.
_________________________
My real name is MadGuitrst

"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
- Dr. Stephen R. Covey

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#1384453 - 04/16/15 10:20 AM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: fabulousthunderbird]
Jazzooo Online   content
Loquacious Planeteer


Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 50140
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
Well, I'm in a couple of situations that are in some way similar, and I'm not telling you to 'leave' just yet.

I've been playing in a blues band with my favorite guitarist, as well as an excellent though occasionally frustrating drummer, a bassist who is of good will but still flubs easy tunes once in a while, and a singer who is really not very good--every song ends up shouting and he tells the same stories every fucking time he introduces songs. BUT I love hearing and playing with the guitarist; the crowd seems to like the band, and I get to roar on the organ. And honestly, I like getting the $700-$1500 pesos every time we play, helps with gas and paying our gardener.

So when I was asked to join a new band--same drummer, but a black bassist/singer from New Orleans and a guitarist from Austin for a NOLA-flavored r and b band, I was hesitant till I saw them playing last week--good fun, I thought. And they are all good players, but honestly it's a little amateurish for me. I talked with the drummer--a total pro--and we agreed that if we can elevate the other guys (which is exactly what they say they hired us for) then it's worth it. If not, then we walk.

One rehearsal the other day...the weed came out. I took one hit, but they kept smoking. The music was pretty good, but the two other guys aren't very good communicators--they each have their own shorthand about song sections, endings, and so on which no one seems to understand!

Last night was our first gig--the audience was thrilled, up and dancing, but there was really no connection between the players, everyone into their own thing, crazy last minute signals that meant nothing except to the person giving them, sloppy/fun with a little too much sloppy in the mix.

I have a decision to make now. Two groups that are only partly fun. Factor in that it is now the start of LOW SEASON in this tourist town, and work will be drying up. I like to perform and get applause and hear my toys in action; none of this is a big time suck and what else am I going to do on a Wed night for the next few months? Plus my tax bill was larger than I'd anticipated. Screw it, it's live music. Keeps me limber. I'll play with both bands as long as I can talk myself into enjoying the good and overlooking the bad. Doesn't keep me from pursuing other projects that mean more to me.

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#1384455 - 04/16/15 10:36 AM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: Jazzooo]
Waterman Offline
Artist # 435
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Registered: 02/20/02
Posts: 6817
Loc: Atlantic Beach, Florida
I guess I'm lucky, I've always played in bands where we all became friends. In fact, if I never played another note with any of them we would still hang out and do other things.

Pete

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#1384464 - 04/16/15 11:20 AM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: Starliner]
Mooseboy Offline
Loquacious Planeteer


Registered: 04/24/99
Posts: 26146
Loc: Tite
 Originally Posted By: Starliner
Life is too short to play with dickheads.


Y'know, taken out of context, this statement could be rather hilarious \:\)
_________________________
For every cigarette you smoke, God takes a day off your life and gives it to Keith Richards.

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#1384475 - 04/16/15 11:55 AM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: Mooseboy]
Tao Jones Offline
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Registered: 06/13/00
Posts: 12153
Loc: CA
Some people play just fine smoking weed. Louis Armstrong always did.

How 'bout you be the leader of the drum section and he can lead his guitar and voice?

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#1384481 - 04/16/15 12:16 PM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: Tao Jones]
Jazzooo Online   content
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Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 50140
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
If I thought they played just fine after smoking weed in rehearsal, Tao, I wouldn't have mentioned it. When I play with my awesome out-of-town trio, it's a bit like a Grateful Dead concert. But they remember what we rehearsed--that's the difference. ;\)

I'm friends with all of thee guys, which makes it even a little more uncomfortable. The thing is, this is a small town (140,000 if you count the boonies) and the bench isn't very deep: if Ken Basman died, there are a couple of nice players but no one who comes close to his ability waiting in the wings. Sometimes you make music with the ensemble you have, as opposed to the ensemble you want.

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#1384495 - 04/16/15 01:14 PM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: motown59]
Gretsch 6120 Offline
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Registered: 05/12/02
Posts: 20321
Loc: Pensacola, FL
 Originally Posted By: motown59
yup, get out. rehearsing and each gig while being high..

In my experience, "big personalities" are rarely the creative types.

Creative tension? baloney. a creative environment, sure


Bingo!...Either kick "the leader" the fuck out or leave!...You're far better off....nowhere near worth putting up with that sort of bullshit...life is too short....
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/the-lost-keys-1

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#1384496 - 04/16/15 01:20 PM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: Jazzooo]
motown59 Online   content
Planeteer/Artist # 238
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Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 13146
Loc: California
there's a difference between deciding to stay or leave a band because the playing or unit isn't pressing any buttons. Most of the time you can tell if there is even a tunnel there, let alone a flicker of light at the end. If guys have been continually playing their axes, then you know if the skill and groove is there or not. Then maybe it's about trying to make a band unit, focusing on individual strengths.

Big difference between that and personality issues, like power tripping, belligerent, substance abusive, forgetful types. Money can become an issue. creative control can. Even who has and brings the PA can be a source of discontent.

I've rarely experienced band members or studio sessions where being high or intoxicated made someone better., ..perhaps more relaxed can result in "better" Focus and memory tend to suffer. But, I have no problem if someone comes prepared.

one of the best tools to decide how things are going is a handheld recorder or camera..


Edited by motown59 (04/16/15 01:23 PM)
_________________________
kel

"I love what you guys are trying to do up there" ...from an audience member at one of my gigs.
Gear: Fender Medium pick

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#1384514 - 04/16/15 02:08 PM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: Marty Gilman]
Slabraton Offline
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Registered: 12/16/12
Posts: 10924
Loc: California
 Originally Posted By: Marty Gilman
Yes, leave.

I have been a band leader all my life, only because I can't stand the way most anybody else does that job. It has worked. I believe 99% of those who worked with me would agree I did a good job
Why?

I. I got good gigs
2. limited and efficient rehearsals. No wasting of anyone's time
3. Making music was the priority
4. I know music and can communicate well as to what is needed
5. I respect my players, their skills, them personally

I will work with any leader that can do this, otherwise I can't be happy.

-m



I agree with you and would add one IMPORTANT point: if I am the contractor, the player knows they will get their money-no if's ands or buts. I NEVER tell my players "sorry, but, we didn't get..."

Bullshit. If I hire a player, he gets paid the agreed on amount. If the check bounces, it's my problem. If he doesn't do his job, I don't call him back.

I would never waste time with the leader who thinks he can set rules. I was unaware of the Divine Right Of Bandleaders. Or is that only apply to bandleaders who reserve the right to use drugs?

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#1384542 - 04/16/15 04:59 PM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: Gretsch 6120]
Jazzooo Online   content
Loquacious Planeteer


Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 50140
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
"also: the leader insists on playing every gig high, and rehearsing that way"


I didn't really see that one, Cloud. That would be no fun for me. I don't kind people having a little buzz but genuinely high? There's just less connection with the other players, imo. Anyway, he sounds like a tool. I'm with Kelly--finish out your commitments and then explain your reasons for leaving. You might not be the only one in the group who feels that way.

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#1384554 - 04/16/15 06:58 PM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: Jazzooo]
Tao Jones Offline
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Registered: 06/13/00
Posts: 12153
Loc: CA
Louis Armstrong was first turned onto marijuana in the mid-1920s, and he smoked it all his life, including before performances and recordings.

Piece of some of his words: "something that grows out in the backyard among the chickens and so forth, Louis emoted in his letter. I just won't carry on with such fear over nothing and I don't intend to ever stop smoking it, not as long as it grows. And there is no one on this earth that can ever stop it all from growing. No one but Jesus--and he wouldn't dare. Because he feels the same way that I do about it."

Louis bounced back, joking he'd "get higher next time" on a "What's My Line?" appearance shortly thereafter.
Sources:
Louis Armstrong in His Own Words, Oxford University Press, 1999
Satchmo: The Genius of Louis Armstrong, Gary Giddins, 1988
What a Wonderful World, Ricky Riccardi, 2012

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#1384555 - 04/16/15 07:01 PM Re: band: dealing with personalities [Re: Tao Jones]
Tao Jones Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 06/13/00
Posts: 12153
Loc: CA
Stones, Beatles, Pink Floyd...and on and on.

Not that I'd ever touch it, but a world of musical geniuses did and do, and they didn't wait until later either.

Marley
Zep

Most of the people you all listen to.

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