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#1395017 - 06/09/15 06:05 PM Mixing and Editing audio recorded without a click or know BPM
Bobkat Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 1203
Loc: St. Marys,Ontario,Canada
Occasionally I get asked to mix and edit tracks that were recorded without using any tempo reference.I import these tracks into Sonar which has a default 120 BPM setting then change that BPM setting till the audio lines up the best on Sonars time lines bars and ruler etc., for ease of editing and to get as close as I can to the original tempo.Is there an easier way to do this in Sonar? Thanks.
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#1395029 - 06/09/15 06:43 PM Re: Mixing and Editing audio recorded without a click or know BPM [Re: Bobkat]
uptildawn Offline
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8431
Loc: Iowa
Doesn't Sonar have some feature where it will "automatically" set up measures (beats, whatever) based on certain audio references in a track (like strong beats, or kick drum beats in a drum track, or something)? I know it isn't likely to be perfect, but I think it would be a great advantage....... I could swear I'd seen this performed in Sonar before... was I dreaming?
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1395068 - 06/09/15 10:32 PM Re: Mixing and Editing audio recorded without a click or know BPM [Re: uptildawn]
Bobkat Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 1203
Loc: St. Marys,Ontario,Canada
Thanks Uptildawn,yes,I haven't tried that function yet in Sonar.Usually any time I've tried that type of function before with other software it wasn't usable.I'll read up and give it a try.
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#1395072 - 06/09/15 11:13 PM Re: Mixing and Editing audio recorded without a click or know BPM [Re: Bobkat]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8431
Loc: Iowa
From what I've seen on youtube demonstrations (which I didn't recall as having been specifically Sonar), it seems like it might be a good place to start. I get the idea that it takes some getting used to - some practice before a person can be intuitive about the settings required to get the desired results, or as close to the desired results as possible.

I'd be really interested to hear how it works out for your particular situation. It seems like one that I find myself in a lot and I've wanted to try it out... I've got access to Sonar 7, but not on a computer that I have free reign to use.

I seem to always end up editing these sort of things manually and it sure does take a whole lot of time and energy, that's for sure!

I've tried setting up tempo maps based on the performances, lining up and re-lining up major beats as it goes and changes down the timeline. It does help in some instances and other times I come away feeling like the end result was a waste of my time, when it was all said and done.

Please post whatever results and conclusions you have, when you get a chance. I'd love to know what you think of that feature in Sonar.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1395104 - 06/10/15 08:25 AM Re: Mixing and Editing audio recorded without a click or know BPM [Re: uptildawn]
bear Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 10/25/99
Posts: 6225
Loc: abq,nm,usa
I do not know if this is possible in sonar, but in reaper there is way to tap a key on the keyboard to place markers. You listen to the song and do this on every measure first beat. Then a tempo map can be made with each marker being the first beat of each measure

How accurate it is depends on how well you tap - you can also zoom way in and nudge each marker a little to match the audio before generating the map.

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#1395124 - 06/10/15 10:19 AM Re: Mixing and Editing audio recorded without a click or know BPM [Re: bear]
Bobkat Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 1203
Loc: St. Marys,Ontario,Canada
Thanks for your thoughts Up and Bear,I'll check out some of the videos and see if I can get some good results!I think once you do it a few times it won't seem so tricky to do.
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#1395215 - 06/10/15 04:57 PM Re: Mixing and Editing audio recorded without a click or know BPM [Re: Bobkat]
Bobkat Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 1203
Loc: St. Marys,Ontario,Canada
Here is some info from Sonar regarding "Audiosnap"
AudioSnap (Producer and Studio only)

SONARís AudioSnap engine and tempo analysis features give you unprecedented rhythmic and tempo control over your audio. Employing sophisticated transient detection technology, the AudioSnap engine automatically analyzes all recorded and imported audio files for rhythmic content to determine where the beats are in the music.
AudioSnap is completely non-destructive, similar to Groove clips and V‑Vocal clips. AudioSnap, V‑Vocal, and Groove clips are mutually exclusive. Groove clip markers are typically placed at a zero-crossing point before a transient; AudioSnap transient markers are placed where musical changes occur, but may not be exactly at a zero crossing.
What is AudioSnap?
AudioSnap is not a single feature, but rather a collection of different tools that can be used for different tasks. The AudioSnap palette ties it all together in a task-oriented layout.
AudioSnap does several things, in a variety of ways:
list-image
Stretches audio clips to fit project tempo or for quantizing.
list-image
Changes project tempo to fit audio or MIDI clips.
list-image
Copies audio rhythms for groove quantizing or doubling sounds.
Figure 219. The AudioSnap palette
How does it work?
AudioSnap works by finding the transients in audio clips. Transients are the areas in an audio clip where the level increases suddenly. These make good locations to shrink, stretch, or split a clip, without changing its sound quality too drastically. SONAR contains a variety of high-quality stretching algorithms for different kinds of material. You can choose a lower-quality algorithm for real-time playback of your edits, and then choose a better algorithm for mixdown or bouncing to track (see Algorithms and rendering).
SONAR lets you define the default online and offline algorithms via the AudioSnap palette, and you can override the default algorithm(s) on a clip-by-clip basis.
*
Note: The online algorithm is for preview purposes only during playback. The final audio quality will be greatly improved after the offline algorithm is applied during mixdown/export.

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#1395256 - 06/10/15 07:12 PM Re: Mixing and Editing audio recorded without a click or know BPM [Re: Bobkat]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8431
Loc: Iowa
Yeah! That's the one..... seems like pretty good stuff.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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