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#1439149 - 12/29/15 03:28 PM Problems with Sonar not encocuntered with other DAWs
Slabraton Offline
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Registered: 12/16/12
Posts: 15109
Loc: California
I have experienced problems recording audio in Sonar which I have not had in REAPER or Sony Acid 6. This begs the question: is Sonar resource heavy? Does it require a more powerful PC than other DAWS?

I use Sonar 4 because I have books on it. I also have 8.5 but am still more comfortable with 4. I know most here have moved on to the X series, but even in the trials I downloaded, I have been unable to record audio that didn't "jitter."

Also, when I have too many tracks (audio and MIDI) the project slows down. AND, Sonar doesn't play nice with my Zoom R8-while REAPER and Acid do.

Any input would be welcome.

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#1439208 - 12/29/15 08:11 PM Re: Problems with Sonar not encocuntered with other DAWs [Re: Slabraton]
uptildawn Offline
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8431
Loc: Iowa
Let me take a stab and throw a couple ideas at you to toss around.

I regularly use a (now antiquated) PC with a Core2 CPU, 6400@2.13GHz, with Win7/32bit, RAM maxed out at 4GB for many of my multi-track recording, editing and mixing jobs - many of which are in the 24-32 simultaneous track count range. Before that, I used a (also antiquated long before I gave it up) P-IV, 2Ghz, 4GB RAM for the same purposes. Between these two systems, I've been doing both live and studio recordings for 11 years with not too many problems and most of those were minor.

Now, I have used Reaper to some small degree, but most of what I've done is with SAWStudio. I believe that both Reaper and SAW benefit from a very sleek internal design that goes lighter on a system than many other popular daws. At least I can say that in the time I was seriously searching, I remember far fewer message board reports of various crashes and dragging systems with SAW than with some others... Maybe that's just my personal experience...

Anyway, I also tend to use far fewer third-party plug-ins, barely any soft synths and samples, even favoring the lower standard sample rates of 44.1k and 48k for recording. All of these things lend themselves to a smoother experience on even very old computers. In your case, it may not be Sonar so much as other things that cause the sluggishness. I've also used Sonar 7 for a few years to record live 32-channel concerts at 96k on an old P-IV, with even less robust stats than the ones I personally owned.

There are a number of issues that can cause your recordings to sound "jittery"..... The word, itself, is open to some interpretation and can have different causes, depending on how exactly the word is being used.

For instance, my first suspicion when I hear/see: "I have been unable to record audio that didn't "jitter.", is to think - soundcard/daw buffer size is too small. If that is true, then a simple test would be to increase the buffer size (keep both input and output sizes the same, I think, for best results) - not necessarily the number of buffers (if you have that choice), but for sure the size of the buffers.

If you're trying to get really low latency and you need a buffer size of 64 or less and you can't achieve this with Sonar, then try a few tests starting with the next higher setting - 128, maybe, or 256... I generally always use at least 2 buffers, when the number choice is given. Most times the daw has to be closed before the soundcard buffer size can be adjusted. Then the daw reopened and adjusted from its own settings panel. That is, unless the daw relies on Windows mixer applet, in which case maybe you can only control this from the daw... I don't remember anymore.

I feel like I'm beginning to ramble and maybe not giving much help......

Sonar not playing nice with the Zoom - you must be talking about controller-related issues, eh?... or is it in trying to pass tracks using the USB link? Not sure what to suggest, except to say be sure to use the latest software updates they offer at Zoom: https://www.zoom-na.com/products/studio-...troller-sampler

USB-related must be driver issues. Controller-related must be how the Mackie templates are working.... that's as far as I can go there, since I don't know Zoom driver issues from experience and don't use any hardware controllers in my own gear.

We need to know many more details about your computer specs, how you are running it, tweaked for audio or not, loads of non-audio garbage on it or not, what operating system, 32bit/64bit, how much RAM, etc., etc., etc.

Oh! another thing always worth checking is to make sure you're not running anti-virus in the background and that wireless network is disabled, if applicable.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1439395 - 12/30/15 06:46 PM Re: Problems with Sonar not encocuntered with other DAWs [Re: uptildawn]
Bobkat Offline
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Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 1203
Loc: St. Marys,Ontario,Canada
Uptildawn has lots of good info for you(increase your buffer size for playback and mixdowns etc).I'm using Sonar Platinum
with no issues (new computer,lots of power and memory).
What driver are you using? I bought a Focusrite Scarlet 2i2 interface that came with a"ASIO" driver download that lets you record with very low latency and, or, I use the Direct monitor feature which has no latency when recording. I can mix and record at 2 ms setting using the ASIO driver.

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#1439406 - 12/30/15 07:14 PM Re: Problems with Sonar not encocuntered with other DAWs [Re: Bobkat]
uptildawn Offline
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8431
Loc: Iowa
Speaking of........ I forgot that some software gives you buffer sizes in terms of ms instead of size - 64 samples at 44.1k equals approx. 1.5ms - 2x64 = 3ms, plus whatever system latency you have.

ASIO driver is good for low latency recording and overdubbing, if your computer hardware will let you get low enough.

But, stuttering/jittery audio sounds like the computer hardware is complaining about too low buffer size.... as mentioned.

There's a big notice on the zoom site right now about new windows update download..... have you tried it yet?

Also, if you're recording at 88.2 or 96k sample rates, try 48 or 44.1k and see if that helps.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1444586 - 01/26/16 08:01 PM Re: Problems with Sonar not encocuntered with other DAWs [Re: Bobkat]
Slabraton Offline
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Registered: 12/16/12
Posts: 15109
Loc: California
 Originally Posted By: Bobkat
Uptildawn has lots of good info for you(increase your buffer size for playback and mixdowns etc).I'm using Sonar Platinum
with no issues (new computer,lots of power and memory).
What driver are you using? I bought a Focusrite Scarlet 2i2 interface that came with a"ASIO" driver download that lets you record with very low latency and, or, I use the Direct monitor feature which has no latency when recording. I can mix and record at 2 ms setting using the ASIO driver.


Thanks for the input. I will try your suggestions. However, I am comparing Sonar to REAPER, ACID and a couple of Cubase LE editions.

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#1444591 - 01/26/16 09:16 PM Re: Problems with Sonar not encocuntered with other DAWs [Re: Slabraton]
uptildawn Offline
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8431
Loc: Iowa
Sonar and Reaper are built differently... that I know, although I can't tell you how. I might have begun to grasp the differences at one time, but I've forgotten what I knew, because I'm comfortable with what I've got, I suppose, and it just isn't an issue for me at this time.

I think that the difference in the design and how they use resources would have a lot to do with it, however, I can't explain how Acid and Cubase could work better, since I "think" they are designed more in the way of Sonar.

Hope you figure out something that makes it all work more smoothly for you.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1474577 - 06/17/16 02:41 PM Re: Problems with Sonar not encocuntered with other DAWs [Re: uptildawn]
Slabraton Offline
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Registered: 12/16/12
Posts: 15109
Loc: California
I recently purchased a Roland Cakewalk V Studio-100 on ebay and it came with updated software.

Instead of Sonar 8.5, it came with Sonar X3 Producer at no additional cost!

So now I need to master Sonar X3.

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#1474614 - 06/17/16 05:04 PM Re: Problems with Sonar not encocuntered with other DAWs [Re: Slabraton]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8431
Loc: Iowa
The issues, if any, remain the same, Slabraton.

Nice that you got the updated software at no extra charge.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

Top
#1477362 - 07/01/16 12:41 PM Re: Problems with Sonar not encocuntered with other DAWs [Re: uptildawn]
Slabraton Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/16/12
Posts: 15109
Loc: California
 Originally Posted By: uptildawn
The issues, if any, remain the same, Slabraton.

Nice that you got the updated software at no extra charge.


I appreciate your input and I have concluded that the problem is with buffering. I am able to send eight analog outputs plus MIDI sync through my M-Audio Delta 1010Lt sound card, but I have had (occasional) issues with the digital output. It would be nice to be able to send a digital output from the PC while using MIDI sync, but for some reason, that's where I've run into problems. But it's no doubt operator error and I will work that out.

So now I am recording on the Zoom R8 or the Roland Cakewalk V Studio-100. All editing is done on the PC.

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#1520957 - 02/24/17 12:27 PM Re: Problems with Sonar not encocuntered with other DAWs [Re: Slabraton]
Bat Offline
Senior
Planeteer


Registered: 08/20/08
Posts: 2228
Loc: SL.UT
updated motherboard,
more powerful processor,
more ram.

voila, done.

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