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#1352043 - 12/10/14 11:09 PM 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
sitruc Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 11/03/14
Posts: 2
Hello oh wise 880-ers,
I posted this as a reply in another post but thought I'd try here...

I'm new to all of this but have switched out the HD with an SD card reader as it looks like others here have. I'm having a problem - it initializes and will record fine to the SD but each time I turn it off and back on it wants me to initialize again, thus losing what I just recorded. I'm using 4gb Kingston cards.

Any help would be welcome. The posts here are great and I've read soooo many (thanks Bear and Uptildawn and many more for your constant contributions!)...I'm almost all set.

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#1357037 - 12/24/14 12:40 PM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: sitruc]
ricket Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/19/99
Posts: 245
What's that shutdown procedure again ?


Edited by ricket (12/24/14 12:40 PM)

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#1357480 - 12/26/14 12:26 PM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: ricket]
kutabare Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 8
I would also be interested in a resolution to this if there is one.

I've got IDE>SD card adapter that appears to work as it should. Once initialised multiple recordings can made, edited, loaded and saved. Everything seems OK except the card initialises on the next boot.

The cards I've used are Sandisk 4GB. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.


Edited by kutabare (12/26/14 12:26 PM)

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#1357508 - 12/26/14 04:39 PM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: kutabare]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8052
Loc: Iowa
There was much concern over Sandisk cards back when I first began to check this stuff out, because it seems that certain ones didn't work for this purpose... don't ask me to find the thread... I don't remember anymore, but I'm sure my posts are all over in it.

Anyway, I know for sure that certain PNY and Transcend cards work fine, since I've used them before. However, I don't know if they are available as the same cards I used, or newer versions exist now, or whatever.

Your best bet, if you are concerned that the card brand, class, model, etc. are a problem, is to find a number of different cards and try them out - find the couple, or a few that work and go with those.

I don't have any clue why some machines are wanting to reformat the card at every boot up....... I never experienced that in my testing a few years ago. I've hardly even bothered with the card as and internal drive solution since that time and only use them in an external case mod, if at all.

Sorry to not be of much help. Maybe this will get you pointed toward a solution, though.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1357618 - 12/27/14 06:39 AM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: kutabare]
ricket Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/19/99
Posts: 245
 Originally Posted By: kutabare
I would also be interested in a resolution to this if there is one.


Please allow me to repeat my last question ...

How exactly do you perform a shutdown ?

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#1357622 - 12/27/14 07:25 AM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: ricket]
mrsinical Offline
AudioWriter
Planeteer


Registered: 08/31/09
Posts: 1314
Loc: Riding Indiana Waves of Audio
To shut down the machine properly

Hold down "shift" and press "stop" - then I believe it will ask if you wan to "save" - press yes OR no - then it will shut down - and then it will inform you that it is safe to turn off the power.
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#1357811 - 12/28/14 05:38 AM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: mrsinical]
ricket Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/19/99
Posts: 245
 Originally Posted By: mrsinical
To shut down the machine properly

Hold down "shift" and press "stop" - then I believe it will ask if you wan to "save" - press yes OR no - then it will shut down - and then it will inform you that it is safe to turn off the power.


Ok.
So despite performing the shutdown procedure and powering off, does the vs still try to initialze the CF/SD when you power back on ?

Exactly, what IDE-SD card reader are you using, and what SD cards (Exact brand and model, please?) ?

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#1357812 - 12/28/14 05:39 AM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: mrsinical]
ricket Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/19/99
Posts: 245
Sorry, got an internal server error. ?

Edited by ricket (02/13/16 02:12 AM)

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#1357988 - 12/29/14 09:13 AM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: ricket]
kutabare Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 8
Thanks for the replies.

Just tried with the shutdown procedure, no dice. I reckon the adapter isn't fully compatible.

Interestingly with the "Shift & Play" restart the card still works fine, it's only a power cycle where the card gets initialised.

This is true for all of the cards I've used.

For reference this is the adapter.

http://www.dx.com/p/sd-memory-card-to-id...362#.VKFvZbADoA

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#1358023 - 12/29/14 12:24 PM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: kutabare]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8052
Loc: Iowa

I don't know what else could be the issue. I swap out the old internal spinning drive and the SD card every now and then - just did it now to check - and the same songs are still on the SD card when I boot it up.






Edited by uptildawn (12/29/14 12:24 PM)
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1358044 - 12/29/14 02:05 PM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: uptildawn]
Frans Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 190
Loc: netherlands
What firmware version is your VSR880 at?
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If there is bagend u will get the best vIbe possible.

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#1358054 - 12/29/14 03:17 PM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: kutabare]
ricket Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/19/99
Posts: 245
 Originally Posted By: kutabare


That memory controller chip on the board dates back to what appears like to be 2008 and doesn't seem to be used in the newer designs.

I remember it took the industry a few tries to get the SD-IDE adapters working right.

If I were you I wouldn't spend anymore time on that adapter, dump it, and grab a few of these:

http://www.ebay.ch/itm/161214211237

Why a few ? Duds are not uncommon whether ordered directly from China or even Amazon. The real cost is the waste of time ordering a new one. But those that work, you can rely on them.

Then, what SD is that you're using ?

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#1358064 - 12/29/14 04:05 PM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: kutabare]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8052
Loc: Iowa
 Originally Posted By: kutabare
...
The cards I've used are Sandisk 4GB...


This is the brand kutabare said he's (she's) used (from a few posts back. No mention of a particular class.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1362673 - 01/17/15 08:31 AM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: uptildawn]
kutabare Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 8
Thanks for the suggestions. \:\) I ordered a couple more of these cheap IDE > SD adapters from China and they turned up this morning.

I made sure I bought different ones to the one I had but unfortunately the listing had a stock photo and I received two identical adapters to the one I had.

Anyway, I tried one and it works perfectly. Interestingly the audio from the adapter that initialises every time was present on the card. I haven't extensively tested it yet but it records/plays back 4 channels without a problem.

For the record the cards are Sandisk 4GB Class 4, but I have Kingston and another brand that all perform the same.

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#1362685 - 01/17/15 09:26 AM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: kutabare]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8052
Loc: Iowa
Glad you got it sorted out. Maybe you can find a use somewhere else for the adapter that doesn't work with the VS... unless it's simply a bad adapter.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1448013 - 02/11/16 12:12 PM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: uptildawn]
memphislim161 Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/31/13
Posts: 37
I have this same issue with the card being unformatted with a power cycle. I have tried 3 different adapters and four different SDs one of which is a Transend class 10 disk and still same result. Can anyone please tell me if they've purchased a working adapter recently and where they got it?
_________________________
Michael

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#1448084 - 02/11/16 03:34 PM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: memphislim161]
Jack_Nelson Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 355
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
Out of interest, you did remember the 'pin 10' business, didn't you?
When I first got my adapter, I managed to bend it out of the way, but even then it stopped the two faces seating together properly. (I eventually snapped it off, solving the problem)

Probably absolutely nothing to do with your headache - just thought I'd mention it for good measure....

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#1448101 - 02/11/16 04:51 PM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: Jack_Nelson]
memphislim161 Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/31/13
Posts: 37
Thanks for the reminder about the pin Jack but to the best of my knowledge, the adapters now ship w/o that pin so no need bend. That is, if I am correct about the pin. As you look at the adapter, pins facing you, SD Slot on top, the tenth from the left pin is missing. A total of 43 pins. Please correct me if this is not the correct pin to be missing.

So, I got mine to work, kind of. Lots of trial and error but apparently it may not be the adapters. I read in the CF post about that card needing formatting so I tried it on the SD card. Here is what I learned:

1-If I formatted the card to FAT or FAT32 first, the VS sees 3 IDE drives on a 4GB card when booted and it would work fine from there on out with no need to initialize every time you cycle the power.

2-Once the VS sees these 3 partitions you can not let the VS re-initialize either quick or physical format or you're back to square one- a disk that needs initialized every time you boot. I tried this so that I could get full use of the 4GB card but to no avail. I also tried a 32GB card to see if I could at least get 4 1GB partitions but that did not work either.

So, with my adapter and FAT PC formatted 4GB card installed (tried several cards with same results) I have a 3GB drive that woks fine as long as I don't Initialize it via the VS.

Any ideas you guys have that would explain or fix this?


Edited by memphislim161 (02/11/16 04:56 PM)
_________________________
Michael

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#1448195 - 02/11/16 11:32 PM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: memphislim161]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8052
Loc: Iowa
Sorry if this is really large - It's late. I can resize tomorrow, if needed.

On both my SD and CF card adapters, I have the 10th pin from the left - on the bottom row - with the card slot facing up..... not the 10th pin, TOP row.

EDIT: I may have to amend this to say:
In my case, which has always worked just fine:

pins facing me, card slot up, 10th pin from the RIGHT, in the BOTTOM row, is removed............

That is, unless you actually mean to say pins facing YOU, as in another person looking at the card as you hold it toward them to see, in which case my first statement is correct.... see picture for orientation as I MEAN it.

[img][/img]





Don't know if this is a problem for those having trouble with the VS always wanting to re-initialize or not. When I've used the card as an internal replacement, I've never had to re-initialize.


Edited by uptildawn (07/07/16 02:05 PM)
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1448242 - 02/12/16 10:39 AM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: uptildawn]
memphislim161 Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/31/13
Posts: 37
I think the adapter makers are now putting the SD slot on the opposite side of the card. If I align mine like your pic, the card is on the other side as shown below. The same pin though is removed on mine as it is on yours. If a I flip my card and bend the corresponding pin it does not boot.






Edited by memphislim161 (02/12/16 10:48 AM)
_________________________
Michael

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#1448252 - 02/12/16 11:27 AM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: memphislim161]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8052
Loc: Iowa
Interesting!
Of course a problem still exists that didn't before.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1448320 - 02/12/16 03:22 PM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: uptildawn]
Jack_Nelson Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 355
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
Isn't that weird?
I wonder why the design change?
When I bought mine - only one, regretfully! - I remember it being a choice of sellers with the best eBay feedback - there were dozens of options....
Not a single one now.

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#1448326 - 02/12/16 03:31 PM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: Jack_Nelson]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8052
Loc: Iowa
I'd venture to say that it must have something to do with the decision to buy whatever parts being sought can do the job and fit within the electrical limits needed and the price point desired. As long as the major end points are met...

It "works" and is cheap to make. Doesn't mean it has to work for EVERYBODY.....





Edited by uptildawn (02/12/16 03:31 PM)
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1448462 - 02/13/16 02:02 AM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: memphislim161]
ricket Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/19/99
Posts: 245
 Originally Posted By: memphislim161
I have this same issue with the card being unformatted with a power cycle.
The SD card doesn't get "unformatted", it gets "corrupted" with "format" data the VS doesn't recognize.

 Quote:
I have tried 3 different adapters and four different SDs one of which is a Transend class 10 disk and still same result. Can anyone please tell me if they've purchased a working adapter recently and where they got it?
To understand your issue, it makes more sense that you tell where and when you bought yours, all 3 adapters.

Can you also post closeup pics of all your adapters, both sides, with the IC markings visible (peel off any sickers, remove any residual glue with nail polish remover) ?

 Quote:
I read in the CF post about that card needing formatting so I tried it on the SD card.
That's supposed to be on the VS, Slim161.

 Quote:
1-If I formatted the card to FAT or FAT32 first, the VS sees 3 IDE drives on a 4GB card when booted and it would work fine from there on out with no need to initialize every time you cycle the power.
Wierd. The VS can't handle FAT32.
Which program/OS (including version) did you use to format ?

 Quote:
2-Once the VS sees these 3 partitions you can not let the VS re-initialize either quick or physical format or you're back to square one- a disk that needs initialized every time you boot.
Damn wierd.

 Quote:
- the 4GB card
- the 32GB card

 Quote:
- with my adapter and FAT PC formatted 4GB card installed (tried several cards with same results)
That's several 4GB cards, right ?
Are these SD cards new ?
If not what were they used for and for how long ?
Can you also post pics of all those SD cards you tried ?

A very stupid question ... do you take the SD card out of the adapter to read in some card reader on your PC ?

And another stupid question, you did check the write-protect switch of the Sd card, didn't you ?

A very wild guess ... did you try using a Micro SD with a MicroSD-SD adapter ?


 Originally Posted By: Jack_Nelson
Out of interest, you did remember the 'pin 10' business, didn't you?


To make sure everybody's on the same level ... it may be the 10th pin from pin 1, BUT in the standard, that pin is called "pin 20".

http://www.pccables.com/images/00504b.jpg


Edited by ricket (02/13/16 04:15 AM)

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#1448528 - 02/13/16 10:32 AM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: ricket]
memphislim161 Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/31/13
Posts: 37
Ricket, here are the answers in order asked:

1-Bought all three in last 2 weeks. 2 from one source. Pics below. They all appear pretty much the same.

2- I formatted the disks that worked with Windows 10, PC only after did not work in VS.

3-Yes, four different SD cards, 3 makes all brand new, never in my PC for initial trials. See pics below.

4- I tried all the cards first in the VS then when they did not work I formatted in the PC.

5- Write protect is off.

6- Did not try Micro SD.










Edited by memphislim161 (02/13/16 10:37 AM)
_________________________
Michael

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#1448541 - 02/13/16 11:24 AM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: memphislim161]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8052
Loc: Iowa
Checking around online for a source for this adapter (since memphislim didn’t say),
I found an interesting comment in Amazon user reviews: “Be careful as the serial number changes with each power cycle causing the computer to not be able to sleep.”
Not knowing enough about these to hazard a guess, could this be correct and could it have anything to do with how the VS treats a card inserted in it and the VS – considering re-initialize request on reboot)?

Amazon link here: http://www.amazon.com/Optimal-Shop-Digital-Adapter-Converter/dp/B00DGNYXQ0

Aside from that, although the pin arrangement is the same (according to where pin 20 has to be in order to plug in to the VS connector correctly), the components are on the opposite side from my own adapter. On the component side of mine, pin 1 is at the opposite long side and in the row furthest from pins and the edge of the card. My CF adapter is designed the same as my SD adapter.



Edited by uptildawn (02/13/16 11:25 AM)
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1448567 - 02/13/16 01:12 PM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: uptildawn]
memphislim161 Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/31/13
Posts: 37
That Amazon link is where two of my adapters came from, the other Ebay.
_________________________
Michael

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#1448664 - 02/13/16 07:23 PM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: memphislim161]
Jack_Nelson Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 355
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
Assuming it's now the adapter that's (a) changed and (b) is the culprit, I thought I'd dig mine out again to identify the IC's on board.

For what good it'll do, there seem to be only two main IC's on board :


The 'erasable and reprogrammable Flash memory chip' is the CAT28F020N, in my case manufactured by CSI.
After the above identifier,-12 00746C also appears.

The other - main? - chip is stamped FC1306TGP.
Although a different manufacturer, I've found a breakdown of the chip detail here :
https://www.lo-tech.co.uk/wiki/Lo- tech_ISA_CompactFlash_Adapter_FAQ

There's some interesting stuff about formatting etc....



Edited by Jack_Nelson (02/13/16 07:23 PM)

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#1448754 - 02/14/16 08:31 AM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: memphislim161]
Jack_Nelson Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 355
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
 Originally Posted By: memphislim161
That Amazon link is where two of my adapters came from, the other Ebay.


Did you notice the differing Sintechi IC numbers?

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#1448759 - 02/14/16 09:25 AM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: Jack_Nelson]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8052
Loc: Iowa
I found a bit of info on the chip in my working adapter, FC1306T(GP), if anybody cares to read it and make any observations that might shed some light on the differences. I don't personally know...
http://file.datasheet.netdna-cdn.com/PDF/FC1306T-PDF/866424

And then there's this very brief conversation on the mpc samplers forum from 2011, where it appears not to be a good choice:
http://www.mpc-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=141311

Interesting to me, since it appears that what works fine for me was garbage to them.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1448760 - 02/14/16 10:03 AM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: uptildawn]
Jack_Nelson Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 355
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
Our (working) units share the same IC as above, but did you happen to note the other on board?
My bet is it again will match - CAT28F020N.

This is the one that is listed as being the 'erasable and reprogrammable Flash memory' chip....

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#1448773 - 02/14/16 10:50 AM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: Jack_Nelson]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8052
Loc: Iowa
You are correct. I didn't even know there were any numbers on the chip at first... they're so faint. Mine has a G in place of the N. This is the one:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/ON-S...Ndx3ZH1MQ%3d%3d

So, what's the equivalent on memphislim's adapter?
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1448808 - 02/14/16 01:16 PM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: uptildawn]
Jack_Nelson Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 355
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
Where did I put my binoculars?!
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#1448877 - 02/15/16 05:42 AM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: Jack_Nelson]
Jack_Nelson Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 355
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
Assuming it is the chips that are causing the problem...

Dx.com appear to sell - except would you believe they're out of stock! - an adapter that boasts the same chips as my and Uptil's working jobs...

http://www.dx.com/p/sdhc-sd-memory-card-to-2-5-ide-adapter-card-8gb-max-19737#.VsG4fEC8q8E

Worth asking if/when further stock expected?


[edit]
Also...
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/One-Piece...1794224350.html

Doh. They're out of stock as well....





Edited by Jack_Nelson (02/15/16 08:15 AM)

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#1448887 - 02/15/16 09:04 AM Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing [Re: Jack_Nelson]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8052
Loc: Iowa
Who knows? Give it 2-3 years and some seller on ebay will pop up with an old stock of them they had forgotten about, or hoarded.... \:\)

Maybe there's a CF adapter floating around that works.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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