#1448918 - 02/15/16 04:35 PM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: uptildawn]
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Jack_Nelson
Planeteer
Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 366
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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Maybe there's a CF adapter floating around that works.
Well, I know these work, 'cos I bought one only a few weeks ago (but from UK eBay seller fullspeedit, not from the inscrutables)...
'Compact Flash to 2.5" IDE ATA Converter Adapter Card CF - Version V.B1'
How crucial the version is, I don't know, but it certainly works in my 880EX without any initialisation problems.
(I'd better emphasise that this is 'just' a CF card adapter, not one that takes an SD)
Edited by Jack_Nelson (02/15/16 04:37 PM)
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#1448925 - 02/15/16 05:07 PM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: Jack_Nelson]
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memphislim161
Planeteer
Registered: 01/31/13
Posts: 37
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I don't think the CF adapter has the same issues the SD as it is not chip dependent to work. Hopefully we can get the SD adapter thing figured out for those of us who want to use that.
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Michael
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#1448938 - 02/15/16 06:09 PM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: memphislim161]
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Jack_Nelson
Planeteer
Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 366
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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#1448944 - 02/15/16 06:34 PM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: Jack_Nelson]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9080
Loc: on land
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Ha! You actually found a couple!
Also, if you seriously want to use an SD card, but can only get a CF adapter to work in your VS, there's always a CF-to-SD adapter that you can insert an SD card into to go in your CF adapter: http://www.amazon.com/Eye-Fi-Compact-Ada...f+to+sd+adapter
I don't own, or know this particular CF adapter. I'm just using the link to display what one of these adapters looks like.
Edited by uptildawn (02/15/16 06:35 PM)
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uptildawn
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#1448946 - 02/15/16 06:35 PM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: uptildawn]
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memphislim161
Planeteer
Registered: 01/31/13
Posts: 37
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What you found there may not have the same chip, read the reviews below.
The CF to SD adapter looks pretty cool. I try one an report back.
Edited by memphislim161 (02/15/16 06:36 PM)
_________________________
Michael
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#1448967 - 02/15/16 08:42 PM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: Jack_Nelson]
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Jack_Nelson
Planeteer
Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 366
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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#1448986 - 02/15/16 10:55 PM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: memphislim161]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9080
Loc: on land
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What you found there may not have the same chip, read the reviews below...
Quote from Amazon buyer: "The picture is for the rare 2-chip sd adapter which actually works with an Acorn A3020 and doesn't permenently illuminate the HD light on an Amiga A1200. What actually shipped was the generic 1-chip sd adapter which doesn't work with an Archimedes at all."
That could be a bummer, getting something other than what is pictured. Wonder if that other link you found could have similar results, Jack. Hope the ones you ordered are the right ones!
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uptildawn
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#1449140 - 02/16/16 09:01 PM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: uptildawn]
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ricket
Planeteer
Registered: 04/19/99
Posts: 245
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Ricket, here are the answers in order asked:
2- I formatted the disks that worked with Windows 10, PC only after did not work in VS.
Disks ??? Which disks ?
Eventually, Windoze 10 explains half of the inits. The format utility can NOT format storage to FAT, aka the FAT16 filesystem.
As for the other inits ...
What kind of cardreader do you have on your PC ? How is the cardreader connected to the pc ?
First the Sandisk, my advice: don't use it to test your setup. I could never use Sandisk SD cards *reliably* in the VS. Try to use it only after testing with the other SDHC cards.
That leaves you 2 4Gb SDHC cards.
My guess is that they are formatted in a FAT32 "protected" format, which throws off the the SD adapter with the newer ICs when performing a init by the VS.
Formatting these cards in FAT16 will create 2GB max size partitions, also the max size the VS880/890 can work with
First, if you can afford to spend $15-$20 try to order a couple of Transcend or PNY 8GB SDHC cards.
Then, grab your 4GB SD cards, get on your PC, boot it, and try this ...
- insert one of those 4GB SD cards in your cardreader
- make sure that SD card comes up as a drive in the windows file explorer
- Start a console/command window...
Click Start
Type CMD
- At the "C:\xxxxx>" prompt ...
> diskpart
list disk (your disks will be listed. Look for the one with the drive letter that matches the -removable drive- windows created to use your SD card as storage.)
select disk * (Replace * with the disk number you want to work with)
clean
create partition primary size=2048
format quick fs=fat
exit
- Make sure you properly "eject" the -removable drive- in Windows file explorer.
- pull the SD card out of the cardreader
- make sure your vs is powered off
- insert the SD card in the SD adapter of your VS
- power on your VS
- try to access and init the new flash drive and create as many 2GB partitions the SD card acan hold, and test at will.
- come back here and report ... pretty please, yes ? :-)))
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#1449169 - 02/16/16 10:12 PM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: ricket]
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memphislim161
Planeteer
Registered: 01/31/13
Posts: 37
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Ricket, just performed the steps above exactly as you stated with no problems. Upon startup the VS sees an un-formatted SD card. After the VS initializes it there is 4 partitions. Once you reboot though you're back to square one again with an un-formatted SD card.
Card reader on my HP pc is built in, not sure the make.
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Michael
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#1449210 - 02/17/16 01:32 AM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: memphislim161]
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ricket
Planeteer
Registered: 04/19/99
Posts: 245
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Michael,
Please forgive me for what could appear as some very stupid questions ...
- What VS model do you have ? What firmware revision ?
- Can you confirm that ... after initializing the SD card on your VS, you properly shut down the VS as described in a post earlier in this thread, and only then power it off ?
- Did you swap the hard disk for the SD adapter yourself ?
- If you did, did you just plug the SD adapter in the free connector, or did you end up adding some kind of extension cable between the free connector and the SD adapter ?
- Can you confirm that ... if you format the SD card in the cardreader of your PC, as I described, properly disable the SD card by "ejecting" the removable drive in windows explorer, pull the SD card out from the cardreader, and put it back in the cardreader ... you see a removable 1GB drive appearing in the windows file explorer ?
- If you format the SD card in the VS, power the VS off, pull the SD card out, write protect the SD card, put it in the cardreader of your pc, can you confirm 4 removable 1GB drives appear in the windows file explorer ?
- If you repeat the sames as above, but without write protecting the SD card before inserting it in the cardreader, can you confirm the same result ?
- Can you afford 3 or 4 (only need 1 but ordering cheap from China you do get some duds) of these ...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-2-0-to-IDE-S...C-/161977675357
- Would you have any of these ...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Compact-Flash-CF...d-/281866720055
... and these ...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SD-SDHC-SDXC...3-/381370251567
Well, guess that's all I can think of for now.
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#1449213 - 02/17/16 01:50 AM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: ricket]
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ricket
Planeteer
Registered: 04/19/99
Posts: 245
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Michael,
2 extra things ...
- On your Windows 10 ... do you have a quick/full format switch ?
Try a full FAT32 format, then repeat the FAT16 format I described in my previous post, then see if you can init the SD card in the VS and if the format holds after a power cycle ...
- Try formatting your SD cards on your PC with the windows utility below, then repeat the FAT16 format I described in my previous post, then ... well you got it by now.
https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter_4/eula_windows/SDFormatterv4.zip
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#1449219 - 02/17/16 02:15 AM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: uptildawn]
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ricket
Planeteer
Registered: 04/19/99
Posts: 245
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#1449282 - 02/17/16 06:04 PM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: ricket]
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memphislim161
Planeteer
Registered: 01/31/13
Posts: 37
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The VS is an 880EX software version 2.01.
Yes, proper shutdown procedure followed.
I did swap the adapter for the hard disk myself and connected directly where the hard drive was, no cable.
When I format on the PC Fat32 sees a 3.62 GB drive, Fat16 sees a 1.99gb drive. When formatted by VS, PC sees only one- 1 GB drive whether I "write protected" it or not.
ON my PC, WIN10 I do have the quick/full switch.
I do not have any of the Compact Flash gear you asked about.
Just formatted to FAT32 using the SDFormatter link you sent, then the CMD method for fat16. Same result. VS saw "U" so I initialized successfully, then after power cycle saw "U" again.
Checked the SD card with the CheckFlash utility-passed 0 errors.
After all of this, I put SD card back in PC, formatted to FAT32 and VS sees 3 drives right upon boot, no initialization required then or on re-boot. I think if we can figure out why this works and the others don't we'll be closer to a solution.
Edited by memphislim161 (02/17/16 06:33 PM)
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Michael
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#1449283 - 02/17/16 06:09 PM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: ricket]
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memphislim161
Planeteer
Registered: 01/31/13
Posts: 37
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This utility only formats to Fat32 or NTFS.
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Michael
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#1449284 - 02/17/16 06:46 PM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: memphislim161]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9080
Loc: on land
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The VS is an 880EX software version 2.01...
Press and hold down the status and track buttons for channel 1, while powering on the VS with the power switch (not restart) and read the entire 4-digit version number - x.xxx
To be certain you are on the last/final 880ex version of the os, you should be at 2.014, according to Roland.
The os updates are listed here: http://www.rolandus.com/support/by_product/vs-880ex/updates_drivers/
It isn't for certain, but possible that your machine is struggling with this sd adapter as a legit internal drive because your VS isn't on 2.014, if that is the case.
Not saying that this is your solution, but definitely worth updating your VS... new updates are not being created and have not been for many years.
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uptildawn
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#1449292 - 02/17/16 07:41 PM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: uptildawn]
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memphislim161
Planeteer
Registered: 01/31/13
Posts: 37
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Just checked, I'm on 2.014.
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Michael
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#1449298 - 02/17/16 08:48 PM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: memphislim161]
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Jack_Nelson
Planeteer
Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 366
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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Just checked, I'm on 2.014.
Thank Christ for that!
What with unlucky's recent updating trials and tribulations, I was fearful as to your next statement!
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#1449345 - 02/18/16 12:49 AM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: memphislim161]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9080
Loc: on land
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Just checked, I'm on 2.014.
Well, at least you're up to date and we can rule out an os update as being behind the issue with re-initialize requests.
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uptildawn
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#1449433 - 02/18/16 10:27 AM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: memphislim161]
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ricket
Planeteer
Registered: 04/19/99
Posts: 245
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After all of this, I put SD card back in PC, formatted to FAT32 and VS sees 3 drives right upon boot, no initialization required then or on re-boot.
Really sorry to ask you all these things below, but ... if you wanna get down to the bottom of the barrel ...
Stupid questions ...
- formatted how ? which program ?
- what tells you it's FAT32 ?
- when you say above ... "When I format on the PC Fat32 sees a 3.62 GB drive, Fat16 sees a 1.99gb drive." ... can you confirm how you format to FAT32 and FAT16, please ?
Can you swap the SD adapters, using that same SD card that doesn't cause re-initialization by the VS anymore, as to confirm that none of your SD adapters cause a re-initialization ?
Then can you try every one of your SD cards in each SD adapter, formatting each time as you described before inserting in the SD adapter to test by the VS after a power-on followed by a power-off/on ?
Then, can you try re-initializing the SD card *in* the VS and testing if it is still recognized when powering the VS off/on ?
Finally ...
Try formatting you SD cards on your PC to FAT16 with this HP utility, then on the VS, etc ... This utility only formats to Fat32 or NTFS.
Can you try formatting all your SD cards to FAT32 with this utility, then test each SD card in the VS by reinitializing each in the VS and power cycling the VS off/on ?
I think if we can figure out why this works and the others don't we'll be closer to a solution.
"Theory is when you know something, but it doesn't work. Practice is when something works, but you don't know why. ..."
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#1449436 - 02/18/16 11:44 AM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: ricket]
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Jack_Nelson
Planeteer
Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 366
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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I was just wondering what had happened to the original poster - sitruc.
Posed the question, and has never commented since....
When checking, I came across this, from kutabare :
"I ordered a couple more of these cheap IDE > SD adapters from China and they turned up this morning.
I made sure I bought different ones to the one I had but unfortunately the listing had a stock photo and I received two identical adapters to the one I had.
Anyway, I tried one and it works perfectly. Interestingly the audio from the adapter that initialises every time was present on the card. I haven't extensively tested it yet but it records/plays back 4 channels without a problem.
For the record the cards are Sandisk 4GB Class 4, but I have Kingston and another brand that all perform the same."
Not only a success, but success with a Sandisk?!
That's odd in itself...
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#1449443 - 02/18/16 02:20 PM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: ricket]
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memphislim161
Planeteer
Registered: 01/31/13
Posts: 37
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- formatted how ? which program ?
- what tells you it's FAT32 ?
- when you say above ... "When I format on the PC Fat32 sees a 3.62 GB drive, Fat16 sees a 1.99gb drive." ... can you confirm how you format to FAT32 and FAT16, please ?
The working SD cards were formatted on my Windows 10 PC with the built in windows formatting tool. When using this tool you can choose NTFS, FAT, FAT32 and exFAT. After the format, you can eject and put back in the card and use "properties" to see how the drive is formatted. I tried FAT16 and FAT32 with the same results. Works fine, VS sees only 3-1 GB drives, holds through power cycle. If you then take this same working card and let the VS initialize, you go back to "U" after power cycle.
I have now tried all of my SD cards with all of my adapters and get the exact same results as stated above. So, I am confirming that no success after trying your kind suggestions.
Edited by memphislim161 (02/19/16 06:24 PM)
_________________________
Michael
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#1449736 - 02/19/16 07:59 PM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: memphislim161]
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ricket
Planeteer
Registered: 04/19/99
Posts: 245
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Sooooo, after some research and some geek chat with a couple of old buddies, twould seem the new Sintechi SD-CF signal conversion chips of these SD-IDE adapters require an additonal signal, or signalling step, to confirm-write the MBR when it is instructed to "format" the storage. I have yet to confirm this behavior as a security feature, keeping in mind that SD means ... "Secure Digital", and that implementation details are locked up by manufacturers for that reason.
Windows 10, 8, 7, and maybe XP, seem to do it right, while the VS, being too old, like other old non-pc devices, thinking it's formatting a boring old hard drive, doesn't.
So the VS ends up doing "half" a format, old-style, which btw doesn't prevent from recording and saving tracks, but when the VS is power cycled and reads the SD card, it sees a MBR that isn't what it expects and it thinks the storage is corrupted, preventing it from overwriting any data by asking the only "kind of" confirmation that it is capable of.
Eventually, any saved data on the SD before the confirmation remains salvageable on a PC.
Eventually, formatting the SD card once on a PC would be enough to use it on the VS, and read it back on the PC, write-protected to prevent Windoze from mucking around with the checksums and the access/modification dates which confuses the VS.
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#1450657 - 02/23/16 10:46 PM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: ricket]
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ricket
Planeteer
Registered: 04/19/99
Posts: 245
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Just a quick followup ...
It would seem that ... using a SD in a SD-CF compactflash format adapter, itself in a CF-IDE adapter does not cause the power-cycle initialization problem.
Apparently, the SD-CF adapter seems to bypass the SD's security features. Go figure ... 
Of course, as with many things chinese, your mileage may vary ...
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#1450848 - 02/24/16 07:17 PM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: ricket]
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memphislim161
Planeteer
Registered: 01/31/13
Posts: 37
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Thanks for all the help trying to get the SD adapter working, guess it's just not possible to make it fully functional with today's cards.
Have not tried the SD-CF adapter but have decided the any potential benefits of an SD card over CF card are not worth the aggravation. I just put a new CF card adapter in my VS880EX and it worked perfectly the first time so I'll just stick with that.
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Michael
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#1454378 - 03/13/16 10:28 PM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: Jack_Nelson]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9080
Loc: on land
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What has been your experience with these adapters, since you bought them?..... good news, I hope.
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uptildawn
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#1454384 - 03/13/16 10:59 PM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: uptildawn]
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Jack_Nelson
Planeteer
Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 366
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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What has been your experience with these adapters, since you bought them?..... good news, I hope.
Oh dear, Mr.T!
Are you having a grey-haired moment, me old fruit?!
Had a rough day?
Maybe had a little drinky or two?!
Methinks you're a little confused, pal!
I've been using the 'successful type' of IDE/SD adapter for a couple of years.
(Regretfully, I only bought one at the time)
My earlier posts were an effort to find one of the older types - the newer ones not seeming to work now without reinitialising - for our forum colleague.
I thought I'd found some, and posted the link....and jokingly added that I'd bought two, and was going to eBay 'em for $500 a piece!
Our friend memphis - who was/is having the adapter problem - pointed out that the ad was probably using stock photo's, and that they were likely to be the newer type....
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#1454409 - 03/14/16 01:20 AM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: Jack_Nelson]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9080
Loc: on land
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No, no......... I just ran across this thread early this morning (after waking up three hours early and dealing with the lost hour from Daylight savings time).... I didn't realize there were two pages and didn't read the whole thread.
I think I was still asleep...
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uptildawn
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#1454439 - 03/14/16 09:19 AM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: Jack_Nelson]
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Jack_Nelson
Planeteer
Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 366
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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Seeing this thread has been upped again, I'm still intrigued by this older posting from "kutabare" -
"I ordered a couple more of these cheap IDE > SD adapters from China and they turned up this morning.
I made sure I bought different ones to the one I had but unfortunately the listing had a stock photo and I received two identical adapters to the one I had.
Anyway, I tried one and it works perfectly. Interestingly the audio from the adapter that initialises every time was present on the card. I haven't extensively tested it yet but it records/plays back 4 channels without a problem.
For the record the cards are Sandisk 4GB Class 4, but I have Kingston and another brand that all perform the same."
As I commented at the time, not only a success, but success with a Sandisk card?!
That's odd in itself...
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#1454589 - 03/14/16 08:06 PM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: Jack_Nelson]
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ricket
Planeteer
Registered: 04/19/99
Posts: 245
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Jack,
Would it be possible for you to post a few pictures of thoss IDE-SD adapters and of your SD cards ?
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#1454648 - 03/14/16 11:01 PM
Re: 880ex SD card conversion keeps initializing
[Re: ricket]
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Jack_Nelson
Planeteer
Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 366
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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Jack,
Would it be possible for you to post a few pictures of thoss IDE-SD adapters and of your SD cards ?
erm....I think we're all getting a bit confused here!
It was member Kutabare who claimed success with the newer-type adapter - even with a Scandisk card - not me!
My personal adapter is virtually the same as Sir Uptil's...i.e. a 2-chip model as this stock photo shows :
The large IC is stamped FC1306TGP.
The other, the 'erasable and reprogrammable Flash memory chip' is the CAT28F020N, in my case manufactured by CSI.
(After the above identifier,-12 00746C also appears)
Uptil's is slightly different, replacing the N with a G.
Incidentally, Amazon are 'still selling' - according to their stock photo - the model that folk are seeking, but as someone on here pointed out, the review at the page base states otherwise...
(Here, in fact...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/CARD-secure-digital-IDE-adapter/dp/B0039OG76U)
Edited by Jack_Nelson (03/14/16 11:04 PM)
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