#1420074 - 09/24/15 11:01 PM
SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
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NibblerNibbles
Space Cadet
Registered: 09/24/15
Posts: 5
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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I've been experimenting with ways to replace the HDD of my VS2480 with a solid state removable device.
I tried an IDE to SD board, but it doesnt even detect.
I tried a CF to IDE board, which only worked with one CF card (Kingston 256mb with Hitachi controller) but this was too small to be useful. All the bigger ones I tried failed, even after getting technical with the MBR, partitions and whatnot.
Then I found Michael McMaster' SCSI2SD product...
http://www.codesrc.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=SCSI2SD
This is a little board that turns a micro SD card into a SCSI hard drive. With a converter he sells, you can plug it straight into the 25pin scsi port on the VS2480.
When you first connect the VS formatted my 16gb
card into 11gb and a 5gb partitions. When I put sd card into my windows pc I can see the files and back up, import etc.
I can record direct to a 16gb card at 24bit 44.1khz MTP 16 channels at once, and it is stable at about 50% of its max data rate. It falls over at 6 channels of 96khz M24 which is about 1.6Mb/sec, so it can't quite push the VS to its limits. Good enough for me though.
At least its a good alternative to CDR for backups or exporting WAV files. At best it could replace your HDD completely. But please note you need an IDE device installed to get the VS to boot... I use the CF to IDE board for this, mounted in the HDD cradle in place of the Seagate 80gb i bought it with.
I bought it from Michael's vendor Itead Studios. It was about $78 inc the 25 pin adapter, ex shipping. I paid extra for DHL and had it inside a week.
Michael helped me out by email with a few questions and has now added the VS to his compatibility list.
I plan to design a box for it which can be made on a 3d printer... will post it here when done.
I am delighted I finally found a solid state removeable device that works with the VS!
NibblerNibbles
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#1420114 - 09/25/15 09:04 AM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: NibblerNibbles]
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bear
Planeteer
Registered: 10/25/99
Posts: 6538
Loc: abq,nm,usa
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Interesting - I love the first two lines - makes me believe it is for real
The idea of a quality control sticker which breaks the product makes me chuckle (I have been fighting "quality" departments for years...)
You must upgrade the firmware. The firmware supplied with these boards (v4.2.2) is broken.
Remove the "QC Passed" sticker. These stickers are conductive, and may damage the board if placed in the wrong area.
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#1420178 - 09/25/15 03:34 PM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: bear]
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Starliner
Planeteer
Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 3173
Loc: Florida - Dunnellon
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It definitely does look interesting.
So... how does the broken firmware get "fixed" on the unit?
(Hey bear, you could build these!)
Starliner
Edited by Starliner (09/25/15 03:39 PM)
Edit Reason: Hint to bear
_________________________
Half The Lies They Tell About Me Aren't True!
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#1420184 - 09/25/15 03:49 PM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: Starliner]
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NibblerNibbles
Space Cadet
Registered: 09/24/15
Posts: 5
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Hi Starliner.
It took 2 minutes to flash the firmware to latest version. This is done by connecting the board to a pc via usb, and running the configuration programme provided ... this only need be done once, as the firmware and config are written to flash memory on the board, not stored in the sd card.
Once the board is configured there is no further need to connect it to a pc via usb and it becomes standalone. To get data off the sd card you need to remove the sd card from the slot and insert into a reader on the pc... there is no way to read the sd card contents using the usb socket on the board.
The config is quite flexible as you can split a single sd card into multiple virtual scsi drives, and you can limit the size of the sd card as reported to the master device. I hear this is useful for older devices that won't read drives bigger than a certai size.
In the VS case, I just let the VS partition the single scsi drive of 16gb into two partitions. The alternative would be to split the sd card into two virtual drives (each with its own scsi ID number) using the usb utility, and let the VS format each seperately. I have't tried the latter method.
NibblerNibbles
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#1420187 - 09/25/15 03:57 PM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: NibblerNibbles]
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SteveDWalker
Planeteer
Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 3036
Loc: Clearwater
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Then I found Michael McMaster' SCSI2SD product...http://www.codesrc.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=SCSI2SD....I can record direct to a 16gb card at 24bit 44.1khz MTP 16 channels at once,
Does it also PLAYBACK 24bit 44.1khz MTP 24 channels at once???
_________________________
Steve
Roland V-Studio 100, Sonar Platinum, VS-2480HD, M-Audio, Korg,Alesis, Audix, Shure, Mackie, JBL, EV, Taylor, Gibson, Ovation, Ephiphone, Ibanez, Fender, Sunn 2000S
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#1420234 - 09/25/15 07:01 PM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: SteveDWalker]
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Starliner
Planeteer
Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 3173
Loc: Florida - Dunnellon
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Cool! Thanks for the additional info!
Starliner
_________________________
Half The Lies They Tell About Me Aren't True!
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#1420267 - 09/25/15 09:05 PM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: SteveDWalker]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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Does it also PLAYBACK 24bit 44.1khz MTP 24 channels at once???
I'm wondering, too, how does it handle editing chores, or mixing w/fx?
Edited by uptildawn (09/25/15 09:05 PM)
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uptildawn
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#1420277 - 09/25/15 10:06 PM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: uptildawn]
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darksith38
Planeteer
Registered: 03/10/10
Posts: 209
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Looks cool, but i'd rather relay on virdis,for a future fix, for backups, and running harddrives.
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#1420469 - 09/26/15 09:24 PM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: SteveDWalker]
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NibblerNibbles
Space Cadet
Registered: 09/24/15
Posts: 5
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Hi Steve
Yes i can play 24 tracks or record 16 tracks while 8 are playing etc and it just works... with fx (i have 3 vs8f2 boards). 44.1 khz MTP. The LED is on for about 70% of the time which means it still has some headroom.
Housekeeping tasks like copying or moving projects seem a bit slower than using the HDD.
At least the scsi2sd is a new backup/exchange solution. For me it works fine for recording too, but we need more guinea pigs before it can be said to be reliable.
Virdis for me is a non-starter. Because I absolutely refuse to be in the same room as a pc when making music!
Nibbler
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#1420601 - 09/27/15 07:01 PM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: NibblerNibbles]
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SteveDWalker
Planeteer
Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 3036
Loc: Clearwater
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Thanks. It shouldn't matter in the least how many Fx are being used though.
_________________________
Steve
Roland V-Studio 100, Sonar Platinum, VS-2480HD, M-Audio, Korg,Alesis, Audix, Shure, Mackie, JBL, EV, Taylor, Gibson, Ovation, Ephiphone, Ibanez, Fender, Sunn 2000S
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#1420611 - 09/27/15 08:07 PM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: SteveDWalker]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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Thanks. It shouldn't matter in the least how many Fx are being used though.
Wouldn't it matter a great deal how well this device handles fx, if someone is using the vs8f3 cards? - Those fx are actually stored on a partition of the disc and must be accessed from the disc (or am I thinking wrongly about this?).
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uptildawn
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#1420676 - 09/28/15 02:33 AM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: uptildawn]
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SteveDWalker
Planeteer
Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 3036
Loc: Clearwater
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The TI TMS320vc5402 DSP processors are used for the VS-2480 for the effects cards. The vs8f3 cards also use the fixed point TMS320vc5402 DSPs which come with some Roland Bundled effects and preamp modeling in firmware and the 3rd party programs like Antares, IK Multimedia, Universal Audio, Massenburg, McDSP load from the hard drive at powerup and run out of 5402 RAM. This means that you are not accessing the DSP programs from hard drive in real time only during powerup. So the fx are not accessed from the disc as you say during execution of the program.
_________________________
Steve
Roland V-Studio 100, Sonar Platinum, VS-2480HD, M-Audio, Korg,Alesis, Audix, Shure, Mackie, JBL, EV, Taylor, Gibson, Ovation, Ephiphone, Ibanez, Fender, Sunn 2000S
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#1420678 - 09/28/15 02:51 AM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: SteveDWalker]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't sure.
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uptildawn
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#1420939 - 09/29/15 07:50 PM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: NibblerNibbles]
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FalconEddy
Retired Mastering Marvel
Planeteer
Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 10617
Loc: Litchfield, NH, USA
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You know, I'm not sure what the big yank is in attempting to convert the VS-2480 into a solid state recording system
It's designed to utilize magnetic recording hard drive media.
The entire DAW is obsolete, but we all still use them because they work.
What's the big deal here?
It's somebody else trying to fit a square peg into a round hole in order to cash in on some money.
Personally, I'd rather record externally on a sizeable drive I could locate, rather than a phucking 3/4"x1" card that might get accidentally mixed in with all the rest of my SD Cards.
Now, don't let the fact that I'm an MIT engineer dissuade you from stepping into the future, or anything; but, holy shit, is there REALLY a practical need for this type of recording media replacement in the VS-2480?
. . Falcon
_________________________
. . . but, what do I know?
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#1426572 - 10/25/15 01:12 AM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: FalconEddy]
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StyleJunkie
Planeteer
Registered: 01/11/00
Posts: 272
Loc: New Zealand
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It means we no longer need R-bus, Dif/AT, CDs, Vfire, or VirDIS.
I like the idea. Im guessing the VS Wave Export tool is still needed. But after that, Your projects can be edited/mixed/mastered however You want.
Seems like it would be cool if somebody turned it into a product.
Its too fiddly having to flash it and get some adapter & have this open circuitry hanging off the back of Your workstation.
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#1426591 - 10/25/15 03:46 AM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: StyleJunkie]
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keeppracticing
Planeteer
Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 1250
Loc: Atlanta
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Hear, hear, Falcon Eddy!!!
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#1430392 - 11/14/15 03:33 PM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: keeppracticing]
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NibblerNibbles
Space Cadet
Registered: 09/24/15
Posts: 5
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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All
Time for an update...
I have created a 3D printer design for the SCSI2SD board. You can download it, and see some pictures and notes about it, here:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1131419
Right now, no-one is offering such external enclosures for sale, but you could send my files to a local Maker-space (if you have such a thing) to get it 3D printed, or just put it in a cardboard box covered in duct tape!
The creator of SCSI2SD, Michael McMaster, has responded to my request and added a power-on delay feature. With a setting of 2s, this means the SCSI2SD works perfectly with the VS2480 just by connecting the 25-pin D-type cable to the back of the VS, without an external power supply.
The remaining drawbacks as a backup solution, as I see it, are:
1. It's slower than a hard disk. I get 1.7Mb/s transfer rate, which means copying a large file to SD will take much longer than saving to HD.
2. The medium is micro-SD, which is so small as to be hard for many people to handle, and terribly easy to loose. I have taken to glueing a thin ribbon on the back of mine, so I can attach it to something bigger.
3. The VS doesn't recognise it as a DVD/CD, which means you cannot use the "backup" mode of file copying, which some may be used to. You need to mount the SD to SCSI and then copy/paste your files by the project menu.
However, the advantages are:
1. Large capacity (256Gb is commonly available, and 512 coming soon) compared to CD or DVD.
2. Easy upload to the PC via a SD card slot.
3. Low cost.
4. Doesn't rely on any obsolete or hard-to-find components.
At least it's another option for people to try.
To Falcon....
I guess you're happy to work wwith the VS2480's limitations and just want to get on and make music. I respect that, and to be honest I sometimes wish I would stop fiddling about with electronics and get on with making some music of my own! But I've had a realisation recently that after years of telling people my hobby is "making electronic music", the reality is my hobby is "making music electronics"... principally home-made synthesizers. So that is where I am coming from.
I did this project because after I bought the VS2480, I realised there was no easy way to back up files to a PC without using obsolete SCSI devices, or buying VIRDIS and accepting that I would need a PC in my music room (which I am trying to avoid).
This ignited by passion for fiddling with electronics and there was no way back from then on.
After weeks of slightly obsessive experimentation with IDE to solid-state adapters, I realised that nothing would work internally. I discovered the SCSI2SD and decided to try it - apparently this had never been done before. The creator of it was quite supportive and helped my get it working.
So now VS2480 users have a working method to backup their files over SCSI direct to a micro-SD card. Or even record directly to it (caveats noted!). It's another option, not the only option - but perhaps it will be useful to someone.
To be honest, another reason I tried to get the VS2480 working with modern solid-state media was simply because I enjoyed the challenge. Finding out why something isn't working that should, and staying up until the early hours trying to find out why, is what I find fun - both as a hobbyist and in my professional life. Fixing something that most people thought didn't need fixing (the energy efficiency of conventional fluid power machinery) has been the basis of my career - first as an inventor of new technology, and now as the leader of the business founded to commercialise it.
So when you say effectively "don't bother improving it, it's good enough already" I'm afraid you just have the effect of encouraging me to keep going! Which I don't want to do, because it really is about time I actually made some music instead... :o)
all the best
Nibbler
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#1430404 - 11/14/15 04:26 PM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: NibblerNibbles]
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bear
Planeteer
Registered: 10/25/99
Posts: 6538
Loc: abq,nm,usa
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Just for my curiosity - can you read the number off the main IC on that SCSI interface card?
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#1431619 - 11/20/15 03:46 AM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: bear]
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JazAddict
Planeteer
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 18011
Loc: The West Coast of Florida
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So bear....can the ripper and/or vs wave export see this micro sd?
This is purty neat ya axe me.
_________________________
Liberty is inversely proportional to government. http://www.bobminer.net  Da Bears   Bob Miner
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#1431646 - 11/20/15 08:10 AM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: JazAddict]
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bear
Planeteer
Registered: 10/25/99
Posts: 6538
Loc: abq,nm,usa
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So bear....can the ripper and/or vs wave export see this micro sd?
This is purty neat ya axe me.
Don't know for sure without trying it, but I would think it would work fine in VSWE
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#1431652 - 11/20/15 12:49 PM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: bear]
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dkfackler
Planeteer
Registered: 04/24/06
Posts: 705
Loc: Coventry, OH, planet Thulcandr...
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Do you have a part number for the scsi plug adapter?
DK
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#1442027 - 01/14/16 01:42 AM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: dkfackler]
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StyleJunkie
Planeteer
Registered: 01/11/00
Posts: 272
Loc: New Zealand
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I read somewhere years ago the 2480 SCSI bus will only give about 5Mb/sec no matter what. I used VirDIS a lot until my XP PC gave up the ghost. All those transfers were noticeably much slower than with the internal drive. But was a good excuse for coffee breaks. I think this new system looks useful. Recording direct to the SD makes it instant. (Which I tried many times via VirDIS so I know it can work fine over SCSI.)
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#1445345 - 01/30/16 02:42 PM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: StyleJunkie]
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Dr. Altsack aka Volltreffer
Planeteer
Registered: 01/04/02
Posts: 1781
Loc: Munich, Germany
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Hey, great news, this might be exactly what I'm looking for. I dislike the idea of having a pc in my recording room, have a lot of SCSI compatible devices and it might fir for them all... So SCSI2USB might be delayed...
_________________________
Ciao, aXel ------------------  imply depressed
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#1445683 - 02/01/16 05:12 PM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: Steve Phillips]
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bear
Planeteer
Registered: 10/25/99
Posts: 6538
Loc: abq,nm,usa
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CY8C5267AXI is a SOC IC with a ARM cortex3 processor - the magic would all be in the software that was written for it. Probably pretty complex high speed processing stuff.
I really do not know enough about SCSI to write drivers for it... and it is such old tech that I do not think it is worth my time to study it...
Cool looking product though, very nicely laid out and built. My hats off to the designer. (if it works...)
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#1468074 - 05/17/16 12:46 PM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: NibblerNibbles]
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raj4994
Space Cadet
Registered: 02/23/16
Posts: 15
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But how to you get the file back into the VS2480 without using the cd/dvd? Just using the SD adpter...
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#1481664 - 07/21/16 12:02 AM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: raj4994]
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StyleJunkie
Planeteer
Registered: 01/11/00
Posts: 272
Loc: New Zealand
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Think of it as a virtual SCSI hard drive.
You save files or projects to it, and open them directly from it, or copy them back to the local drive.
Use it to back up projects.
Personally, I would Record 16 tracks directly to it and use a card reader on a PC to rip them into Protools or Reaper or whatever for mixing with modern plug-ins.
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#1481669 - 07/21/16 12:14 AM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: StyleJunkie]
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StyleJunkie
Planeteer
Registered: 01/11/00
Posts: 272
Loc: New Zealand
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Has nobody here tried this yet?
You still prefer Your "Rube Goldberg machines".
I ordered one, could take a couple of weeks to get by standard mail though.
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#1482476 - 07/24/16 04:24 AM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: StyleJunkie]
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StyleJunkie
Planeteer
Registered: 01/11/00
Posts: 272
Loc: New Zealand
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I got one, It works.
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#1487143 - 08/15/16 01:56 AM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: StyleJunkie]
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StyleJunkie
Planeteer
Registered: 01/11/00
Posts: 272
Loc: New Zealand
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So eventually I mounted this card into an old external SCSI HD clamshell case that had been laying around the studio unused for years. Well it was a good monitor stand. Anyhow it connects directly without any adaptor, and the drive activity light on the front panel of this case plugged into a pin out on the SCSI2SD board so I can see it working. It is not the most elegant way to use this card due to the size of the case, but it works well & can be opened easily to remove the microSD. The next version they will sell uses a full sized SD card, so that may be a better option for some VS users.
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#1495345 - 09/25/16 10:53 PM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: StyleJunkie]
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rikusan
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 126
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so.....
i'd like to get one of these, or two. how do you get one without ordering 10 or more like the web site says??
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#1495419 - 09/26/16 07:39 AM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: rikusan]
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fazz
Space Cadet
Registered: 11/04/15
Posts: 22
Loc: Adelaide, Australia
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i got mine from HERE
and while you're there, grab one of THESE so you can attach a SCSI cable.
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#1496665 - 10/04/16 05:03 AM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: fazz]
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StyleJunkie
Planeteer
Registered: 01/11/00
Posts: 272
Loc: New Zealand
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I got mine there too (just the one).
Also this product will work on old samplers,
old mac computers, amiga etc... There's a list here.
Scroll down for samplers.
http://www.codesrc.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=SCSI2SD
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#1496768 - 10/04/16 11:08 PM
Re: SD card working with VS2480 and SCSI2SD
[Re: StyleJunkie]
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mobofsquirrels
Debaser
Planeteer
Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 791
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Wow this seems like a really great option for me. I just want to back up my projects to something more reliable than a CD, and this actually seems like it might be the simplest way to do it. There seems to be a lot of options for SD cards. Which one should I use?
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