#1491215 - 12/01/10 07:19 PM
More syncing problems
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shaggysiuk
Planeteer
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 83
Loc: Northern England
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Hi, ive got mtc sync working with the vs2480, it works ok but the only problem i have is it has not picked up the tempo mapping from Cubase, I have one bar of 2/4 time in my piece which is 4/4, which i have in the Tempo track of cubase ok but for some reason the Vs2480 does not recognise this and the bar beat counter is out after this bar, ive gone into tempo track in 2480 and got it to learn the sync track as tempo map still doesnt do it right , ive been into the tempo track on the vs2480 and adjusted the bar manually to 2/4 and saved it , this still doesn not solve the problem?? Any ideas? When i used the atari st all this was fine, last resort i could use the atari to make a midi clock tempo track and sent it to the vs as a sync track
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#1491216 - 12/01/10 11:44 PM
Re: More syncing problems
[Re: shaggysiuk]
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shanabit
Planeteer
Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 2270
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Sync track has to be recorded into the VS 2480 first, THEN you sync Cubase to the VS2480. As far as far as the sync track int he VS not recording the MIDICLOCK TEMPO MAP from the PC, youll have to check out the sync function section in the VS manual.
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#1491217 - 12/02/10 01:19 AM
Re: More syncing problems
[Re: shanabit]
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shaggysiuk
Planeteer
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 83
Loc: Northern England
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Yes thats what i did, recorded the sync track from Cubase then slaved the pc to the VS2480, i recorded mtc mode
Ive been through the manual and tried various options such as learning the recorded sync track as tempo map etc , but nothng i have tried has got over the problem of having a bar or 2/4 in the middle of the piece which the Vs2480 doesnt recognise.
Im stuck
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#1491218 - 12/02/10 01:52 PM
Re: More syncing problems
[Re: shaggysiuk]
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shanabit
Planeteer
Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 2270
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"I've found this works perfectly. Moreover, if you have tempo changes or (god forbid) meter changes in your original, you can then use the command on 2480 which allows you to convert a SYNC TRACK to TEMPO MAP.
For meter changes, you will have to enter them by HAND in the Tempo Map (the only laborious part of the process, if you have a LOT of meter changes). But once having done so, your counter on the 2480 will match up to your counter in Logic (presumably Cubase as well)."
The primary difference between a sync track and a tempo map in synchronization
operations is that a tempo map lets you see and edit tempo and time signature changes. This may be the issue. Also make sure Cubase is sending the SPP and sysex is enabled. Make sure the sysex is enable on the VS as well.
The VS-2480 can transmit this form of synchronization as a:
•
sync track
—a single, uneditable stream of MIDI clock/SPP synchronization data.
The VS-2480 can record a sync track comprised of captured MIDI clock and Song
Position Pointer data received from an external MIDI device. This lets an external
sequencer “teach” the VS-2480 a song’s tempo and time signature changes. The
In order for MMC to work, the master device’s SysEx transmission must be enabled—
in the VS-2480, this is the SysEx. Tx Sw parameter on the MIDI PARAMETER screen
(Page 299). The slave device’s SysEx reception must also be turned on. For the VS-2480,
this is the SysEx. Rx Sw parameter, also on the MIDI PARAMETER screen.
24—MIDI and Synchronization
310 http://www.rolandus.com Roland VS-2480 Owner’s Manual
data can then be sent back to the sequencer, slaving it to the VS-2480. You can also
construct a sync track for a new or already recorded project using markers. In
addition, the VS-2480 can use information you provide about an already recorded
project to create a new sync track. See Page 311 for details on using a sync track.
•
tempo map
—an editable stream of MIDI clock/SPP synchronization data. Each
VS-2480 project has its own a tempo map in which you can view and edit a project’s
tempo and time signature changes. You can build a tempo map for a new or already
recorded project on the VS-2480 manually or by using markers, or convert an
existing sync track into a tempo map. For details, see Page 312.
The primary difference between a sync track and a tempo map in synchronization
operations is that a tempo map lets you see and edit tempo and time signature changes.
The SYNC PARAMETER Screen
The VS-2480’s synchronization parameters can be found on its UTILITY menu SYNC
screen. To get there:
1. Hold down SHIFT and press the EXT SYNC button—the SYNC
screen appears.
[i][/i]
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#1491219 - 12/02/10 03:51 PM
Re: More syncing problems
[Re: shanabit]
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shaggysiuk
Planeteer
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 83
Loc: Northern England
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Thanks ive been trying things along these lines for 24 hours now , ive got as far as syncing ok on minutes econds frames , but no bar beat counter,
ive tried your idea of map conversion a few times now it allows me to sync via midi clock , midi time code and sync track fine but when i go to the tempo map in the VS2480 it stops at bar 27 everytime whereas ive recorded to about bar 120 i can enter bars manually up to bar 50 only , the meter change in my piece is at bar 35, i can enter this manually but it is never actioned by the 2480's beat bar counter
I really dont know what to try now , or is my 2480 malfunctioning ? Ive also tried making a tempo map in my Atari ST and syncing to the 2480 which was a bulletproof technique when using my VS1680, how ever I get just the same result as i do with Cubase in the VS2480, no bar beat counter , it just does 4/4 all the way through or weird meter changes which have nothing to do with any track or data sent??
The only course of action I can think of now is to ignore the bar beat counter in Vs2480 and keep the PC running cubase synced to the machine throughout the recording and mixing of the entire album and use that as my bar beat counter
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#1491220 - 12/02/10 04:45 PM
Re: More syncing problems
[Re: shaggysiuk]
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shanabit
Planeteer
Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 2270
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I always just synced the pc to the vs. If I had measure changes like your talkin I would use the tempo map on the VS to do thatg and then syn the pc via MTC
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#1491221 - 12/02/10 05:44 PM
Re: More syncing problems
[Re: shanabit]
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shaggysiuk
Planeteer
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 83
Loc: Northern England
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I dont know why it isnt working for me then ? il try initialising the VS and try it all again
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#1491222 - 12/02/10 05:55 PM
Re: More syncing problems
[Re: shaggysiuk]
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shaggysiuk
Planeteer
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 83
Loc: Northern England
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Tried that didnt work the probelm seems to be in the tempo track menu why when i convert does it always stop at bar 27 and i can only manually enter by pressing the new button as far as bar 50 , and it just ignores the measure chsnge i put in at 35??
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#1491223 - 12/02/10 06:16 PM
Re: More syncing problems
[Re: shaggysiuk]
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shaggysiuk
Planeteer
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 83
Loc: Northern England
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It is obviously a VS2480 issue and not a Cubase issue as im getting the same result with the Atari St running Notator 3.21 which worked fine for syncing with my VS1680
Ive had a look at using the bar counter of Cubase and working like that , the frame rate on Cubase is more fps accurate then the Vs 2480 which i have to use for finding auto punch points etc which makes is very slightly inaccurate, but i adresay ill manage and itll be worth it for all those lovely plug in effects and nice warm convertors, i think the VS1680 will remain in its box in the attic
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#1491224 - 12/02/10 08:41 PM
Re: More syncing problems
[Re: shaggysiuk]
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shanabit
Planeteer
Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 2270
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You should make sure you have the latest OS update for the VS as well. Make sure you have SYSEX turned on in the VS as well
Issue is the VS2480 WILL NOT sync to midiclock, MTC and SMPTE is fine. Most of the DAWS now will NOT lock to midiclock/SPP now BTW
Even Logic doesnt now. You have to use the sync track function on the VS to record your tempo map for the PC then convert it to a tempo map.
The VS shows Bars/Beats as well as SMPTE time if Im remembering correctly.
Good luck to ya man, Im all out of answers. You should def post SYNC TRACK problem as a new post in the VS2480 section to get some help
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#1491225 - 12/02/10 09:49 PM
Re: More syncing problems
[Re: shanabit]
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virtualan
Planeteer
Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 14958
Loc: Sauchie, Scotland, UK
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When I had the VS880 I had a few projects with tempo/time sig changes in them. The changes had to be entered in both the cubase mastertack and in the VS880 tempo map exactly correctly at the same points or it did what you are describing.
The VS was ALWAYS the master using midiclock as the sync.
If I can try to give an text based example...
Cubase Master Track - VS Tempo Map
140BPM Bar 0 4/4 ---- 140BPM Bar 0 4/4
140BPM Bar 25 2/4 ---- 140BPM Bar 25 2/4
140BPM Bar 26 4/4 ---- 140BPM Bar 26 4/4
I hope that makes sense?
Both have to be manually configured to match the changes exactly in the cubase master track and the VS tempo map
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#1491226 - 12/02/10 10:06 PM
Re: More syncing problems
[Re: virtualan]
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shaggysiuk
Planeteer
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 83
Loc: Northern England
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yes thanks for that , ive been using VS studios for 12 years and know the ins and outs of tempo tracks , why it isnt working i dont know i done everything shanabit suggested and everything in the manual
my os is 2.50
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#1491227 - 12/04/10 04:49 AM
Re: More syncing problems
[Re: shaggysiuk]
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Popmann
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 33082
Loc: Twangville, TN
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Can I ask what seems to be an obvious question no one is asking?
Why do you care so much that the beats/bars line up? I mean, the audio and MIDI will be in sync with each other using time sync...and the MIDI sequencer is the only thing that it's useful to have beats defined. It's not like there are audio quantize features on the 2480, are there? Let your MIDI sequencer give you your tempo map and click track...record stuff. Move on.
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