#1499374 - 10/22/16 07:55 PM
New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
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Popmann
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Anyone played one of these? Getting the rep as the best guitar amp speaker because of how equally well it handles drive and clean....I've heard clips of them making a Deluxe Reverb to a Plexi sound better than ceramic....
Sure, it's expensive, but for a 1x12....or 2x12, who cares? I mean how often does one buy speakers?
I think I'm going to get one and keep it in whichever Brit amp I favor through it...I really should probably sell one. Maybe I think that EVERY time I retube 3 amps!  I SO miss the days of having one amp.
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#1499376 - 10/22/16 08:05 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: Popmann]
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Timster
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$300.00 is alot, but probably reasonable if you need a replacement for an awesome amp.
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#1499379 - 10/22/16 09:01 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: Timster]
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The Vampire Lestat
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I have not tried that speaker, but I do have two silverface deluxe reverbs. One has an alnico tone tubby speaker in it. The other has had two ceramic speakers in it (the original and a warehouse ET65.) Both amps sound good, but I definitely prefer the ceramic speakers with an overdrive pedal running. The ceramic speakers seem to handle distortion and overdrive better. The warehouse speakers are a bargain.
On a side note, the only reason that I even have the tone tubby speaker is that it came installed in my first deluxe reverb, which was a reissue. That never sounded good, so I hunted down a used Jensen that would have come stock. I swapped out the very expensive tone tubby speaker for the much cheaper Jensen and traded it for a reissue AC30. I swapped the speaker the day of the trade, and it immediately sounded better with the ceramic Jensen. The two older ones that I have now do sound better than the reissue for some reason.
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#1499387 - 10/22/16 10:08 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: The Vampire Lestat]
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Popmann
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Registered: 05/23/02
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Yeah, so that's the deal (allegedly) with the Creamback Alnico---it has the jangle/chimey cleans you'd expect from historical alnicos, but it drives as good as ceramics.
Both my brit drive amps have WGS speakers (stock). One is a V30 and one is a RT65 (albeit altered/doped to Reinhardt's specs)....what got me thinking in this direction was realizing that both amps sound much more balanced running through BOTH speakers simultaneously. The RT65 is too middy....V30 is too scooped but with that nasally sizzly thing....together, they make it balanced. Which started me looking at "why can't I get that balance in one speaker?"
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#1499466 - 10/23/16 03:35 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: Popmann]
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The Vampire Lestat
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I wonder how this compares to the Eminence Eric Johnson model. They're similarly priced, although I checked Lance Keltner's demo of the creamback. It sounds better to me than any demo of the Eminence that I've heard.
For what I do, I think that I still prefer what the ceramic speaker does. It's something about the midrange sounding tighter...I also probably should be playing a Marshall, but around here, it's small bar gigs 90% of the time. Somehow, I have always used Fender combo amps.
I have a 2x12 cabinet loaded with a warehouse ET65 and a veteran 30, which was recommended by WGS. I like it alot, and you get different options for close micing by having different speakers. The engineer who records us seemed to prefer the Veteran 30, while I was running my Soldano Hot Rod.
Edited by The Vampire Lestat (10/23/16 03:54 PM)
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#1499471 - 10/23/16 05:18 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: The Vampire Lestat]
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Popmann
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Registered: 05/23/02
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Yeah--those are the two I use, only they're in different combos wired together. 
The builder who makes the RedRock (the custom el84) only records....he like the V30 of what he calls "affordable speakers"....which sort of always pissed me off working with him, as his amps are not remotely what anyone would call "affordable"....but, I digress...they're from some guy who takes a ceramic and recones it....
I've learned many times that Keltner can make anything sound great....but, Metropoulis has started making his only options the Creamback ceramic and the Creamback Alnico....
Funny--I'd never heard of the EJ....until I went trying to find a dealer for Celestion...and Binghole later, I'm listening to some comparison of Alnico speakers--and yes, that was the most similar one. Ha.
It looks like the Criminals are the only Celestion dealer in town. So, Sweetwater it will have to be. They're out of the 8ohm now, what I want in case I want to put it and an existing into a mixed 2x12.
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#1533992 - 06/14/17 10:17 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: Popmann]
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Popmann
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One came up locally used....just had to know. Not sure which amp to put it in (first)....good problem to have....original owner said it was "too warm" for him.
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#1534023 - 06/14/17 11:58 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: Popmann]
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Liquidirt
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Registered: 11/08/04
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Anyone played one of these? Getting the rep as the best guitar amp speaker because of how equally well it handles drive and clean....I've heard clips of them making a Deluxe Reverb to a Plexi sound better than ceramic.... Sure, it's expensive, but for a 1x12....or 2x12, who cares? I mean how often does one buy speakers? I think I'm going to get one and keep it in whichever Brit amp I favor through it...I really should probably sell one. Maybe I think that EVERY time I retube 3 amps! I SO miss the days of having one amp.
I think if you do get it, you must do a review of it.
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#1534028 - 06/15/17 01:18 AM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: Liquidirt]
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Popmann
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Registered: 05/23/02
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Oh, it's here.
First off....holy shit--both amps I've tried with it are like different amps. Which isn't inherently a good thing since I love them both as is....but, I mean I'm not sure I'd even recognize them--if you plugged me into this mystery amp...."some kind of grindy take on a tweed?" --I realize now that I've never played an Alnico speaker that wasn't in a Fender amp....be it Jensen (stock) or Eminence replacements.
it responds SO fast to pick attack, it's a little offputting. I mean, frequency response, you can work around in whatever direction to some degree--but, speed of response is....I mean--it is what it is....
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#1534032 - 06/15/17 01:42 AM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: Popmann]
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tbrugh
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Registered: 08/19/02
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I'm using an alnico cream in a Suhr 1x12 cabinet. It works great for me. Records real well with a R121 in front of it.
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#1534071 - 06/15/17 01:24 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: tbrugh]
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cajun
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Registered: 10/13/01
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Loc: Kicking it in Y Town Louisiana
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You obviously haven't tried the $29.99 Radio Shack Speaker. Lifes too short to waste money on great speakers. These speakers aren't bad for the money.
So all this talk about tubes, and pickups and strings and neck woods... The speaker has a huge impact on the whole chain of things.
I just can't warm up to V30s. Last night after playing around with the Cornford, I pulled the back off my mesa to make sure that I really had V30's in the box. After taking off all the screws from the back panel and prying open the back (was also double face taped in) I can confirm that it is V30s.
I played it for a while open and still didn't care for it. Once I screwed the back panel back on I decided to just dial in a real heavy metal sound. Not bad with the V30's. That's to be expected on an amp with a black treadplate under the knobs.
I can live with the cleans on the mesa with the V30's, but it sounds much better on the 4/12 cab I have with Vintage Shadows speakers.
I think I need to go the gonzo route and just buy a single speaker cab with a totally different speaker than the V30s.
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#1534089 - 06/15/17 04:21 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: cajun]
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Popmann
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Registered: 05/23/02
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Jimi could play through a Dixie cup and string and....still sound like that. Back in my day, I would use what came with my amp and be damned happy about, you spoiled fuck.
But, you know--the importance of the speaker is not why I always bought combos--I wanted the one used to design and test the amp....the synergy effect--until I got a glimpse behind the curtain and realized that with even most boutique builders, "inexpensive and does not suck" will win for most components.
At one point, Fender was selling their HRD3 with at least 3 different speakers. I was shopping for guitars....so, I tried all three. It was a little like 3 different amps.
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#1534097 - 06/15/17 05:15 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: Popmann]
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KyleCarpenter
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Registered: 07/21/16
Posts: 491
Loc: Florida
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I've heard the sound bites of the Cream backs.. And have loved them .. Again.. what can you really tell though from a recording on youtube ?? But.. again.. what ive heard and the comparisons I've heard.. they are amazing.. (in my opinion) But have never heard them Live..That said, I've been pondering buying a couple and making my own cabinets for them .. I even pondered attempting to make A high end cabinet and (trying) to sell them on Ebay ?? Thoughts ?
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#1534099 - 06/15/17 05:18 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: Popmann]
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Popmann
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Registered: 05/23/02
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Joking aside. This thing is noticeably louder than the other speakers I've got. And really "removes gain perception"....so, It's like the opposite of a v30 that way, which always seems to accentuate whatever little rasp is in the amp....
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#1534103 - 06/15/17 05:39 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: Popmann]
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Timster
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I would like one in a cab.
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#1534107 - 06/15/17 05:54 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: Timster]
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cajun
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Registered: 10/13/01
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I don't think the V30 even moves. Sounds stiff as hell..
Which brings me to another question.
My Mesa was two months old when I got it. Just people coming into the store to play it. It has less than 4 months of playing on it by me. So pretty much still not even broken in.
Does a amp speaker need to be broken in and how long to find that sweet spot?
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doug
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#1534113 - 06/15/17 07:13 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: cajun]
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Popmann
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Loc: Twangville, TN
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#1534187 - 06/16/17 02:13 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: Popmann]
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gonzo
purveyor of noise
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speakers mellow as they get some hours on them.
at least 10 AT STAGE VOLUME.
avatar sells their pre-broken in celestions as "HellaTone" 25,30,50 and 60
https://avatarspeakers.com/product-category/avatarhellatone/
i know it took about a month for my celestion Heritage G12H-55 to break in...
a buddy of mine just purchased a Vox AC15, and upgraded to the alnico blue,
and is still going thru the break-in period,
and says he can hear obvious differences after about 12 hours of play.
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#1534188 - 06/16/17 02:34 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: gonzo]
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cajun
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Registered: 10/13/01
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Hmmm....
"We start with a stock great sounding classic 60 watt Celestion Vintage 30s . We then convert it into a Hellatone by exercising the suspension for 15 hours so when you get it, it has a warmer tone on the very first note. This process warms up the low end and smooths out the midrange slightly. The Hellatone model 60 really projects and is great for all kinds of music, especially Rock and Metal! Large heavy 50 oz magnet!"
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#1534191 - 06/16/17 03:12 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: cajun]
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gonzo
purveyor of noise
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i actually learned firsthand about breaking in speakers back in 1980
had brand new PA speakers (EV midrange drivers) and they sounded a bit harsh as soon as we installed them..
we ran a pink noise generator, filtered it for low end below 500hz, i think, using a crossover...
in a bandmate's basement, let it run for a couple of days.
totally knocked off the harsh.
it's a long-known common effect,
lot's of pro guitar players have done this to 'new' rigs.
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#1534192 - 06/16/17 03:16 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: gonzo]
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gonzo
purveyor of noise
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My somewhat rare Celestion G12C-30, is a bit bright and angry,
with zero harsh.
it dates back to early 80's, i acquired two of them, out of a hendrix marshall cab, to use in my 1x12 cabs, because they were lower power and less efficient, therefore quiter, so i could run my amp harder,
and still get speaker thump.
so, they are my mellowest speakers, yet have aggressive edge.
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#1534193 - 06/16/17 03:21 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: gonzo]
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gonzo
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the G12C-30's replaced my (2) 1970's EV SRO's,
which had GIANT magnets,
that handled 150 watts RMS a piece,
103dB, tons of lows,
i could take my 60 watt boogie, run thru ONE of my 1x12's with the EV on it, and hang with a 100w marshall plexi halfstack rig.
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#1534194 - 06/16/17 03:22 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: gonzo]
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gonzo
purveyor of noise
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#1534195 - 06/16/17 03:30 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: gonzo]
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cajun
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Registered: 10/13/01
Posts: 2964
Loc: Kicking it in Y Town Louisiana
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Damn, that's one huge Magnet.
I'm on the lookout for a single 12 cab that way I can get a new speaker and use it with all my amps and then change out if I get another wild idea to try something else.
I've been watching Cel Alnico Cream Vids this morning. I like the open sound of the midrange on these.
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#1534198 - 06/16/17 03:34 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: cajun]
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gonzo
purveyor of noise
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Registered: 08/16/99
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i trust popmann's opinion on the creamback,
and seems in line with on-line reviews...
i like the good ole greenback (and variants) for my sound,
but it really is amp dependent.
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#1534713 - 06/21/17 06:30 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: gonzo]
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cajun
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Registered: 10/13/01
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I tried to get a great deal on one of these Cream Alnico speakers from a Dealer friend of my mine. He said $299 which is the cost everywhere with a lot of dealers out of stock in the 8 ohm. He said the cost on that speaker was pretty high and he couldn't do better.
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doug
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#1534720 - 06/21/17 07:41 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: cajun]
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Popmann
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Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 33082
Loc: Twangville, TN
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The traditional top "name brand" in speakers has done something never done before? I bet there was a a discussion of charging MORE for it. "Sound like an old Blue....with a single speaker on a 100wt amp"?
This isn't a case where it's just a new nice sounding speaker. There's no functional equivalent....AND it's a nice sounding speaker. I really like one speaker (over multiple) for recording. This gets me able to basically use whatever amp.
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#1534784 - 06/22/17 01:46 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: Popmann]
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cajun
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Registered: 10/13/01
Posts: 2964
Loc: Kicking it in Y Town Louisiana
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Popmann, there's a Gold Alnico in that Dr. Z i took home last night. I played that thing last night till 2 in the morning with an A/B switch using the cornford as the "dirty" amp. I need to find an adapter so I can see what it sounds like with the cornford.
I know that the Dr. Z is a different amp with a different voicing, but that speaker sounds amazing. It sounds "open". The gold alnico can be found on the used market for $200 or so.
It's only 50 watts. Pairs very well with the Dr. Z at 30 watts.
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#1534799 - 06/22/17 02:56 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: cajun]
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Popmann
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Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 33082
Loc: Twangville, TN
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Yes, it just doesn't sound like a blue. All alnicos ive ever had were more open and extended than ANY ceramic I've owned or played through.
I think 3rd power uses the gold with some ceramic in their 2x12s that have the little triangle cut behind the Alnico. 65amps uses the Blue....because I don't think they have a 100wt offering. They can go traditional "blue&green(back)" in a 2x12 and handle 45wts....
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#1534802 - 06/22/17 03:09 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: Popmann]
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gonzo
purveyor of noise
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Registered: 08/16/99
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i have found that sometimes, being 'open and extended' can seriously work against the recording of a track.
more times than not, i want a more refined, defined and frequency-specific speaker happening.
i suppose that at certain volumes (all things else being the same), speakers that do not use a certain percentage of their excursion, end up sound very similar.
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#1534830 - 06/22/17 06:37 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: gonzo]
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cajun
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Gonzo, the tracks that I'll start working on will be real simple. Guitar Bass and Drums with vocals, sparse. So as I'm getting my rig together that's what I'm hearing. I walked around the DrZ as I was playing last night and though it would sound great miked close to the speaker and away from behind.
With the V30's, it's so focused but when I take the back off the mesa it just doesn't sound 3D for lack of a better word.
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#1534839 - 06/22/17 06:54 PM
Re: New Celestion Alnico Creamback?
[Re: cajun]
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gonzo
purveyor of noise
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