#1454843 - 03/15/16 06:43 PM
question about dithering
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Slabraton
Planeteer
Registered: 12/16/12
Posts: 16566
Loc: California
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I've been researching this and can't find an answer.
Is there a way to dither your tracks on the Roland VS-890 before exporting them to CD?
With my limited understanding, it seems to me that if I burn my VSR 24 bit tracks to a 16 bit CD the tracks are going to be truncated and I won't be able to do fix it later.
I am sure I am overlooking something since I can't find any threads dealing with this.
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#1454878 - 03/15/16 08:19 PM
Re: question about dithering
[Re: Slabraton]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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pgs 78-80 of the pdf Appendices file shows the algorithms for the MTK effects chains. You'll see a brief description of the Dither on pg 80.
Basically, you'll want to apply dither to your master bounce mix in order to insure that the 24 bit recording is not truncated to 16 bits.
That's about it.
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uptildawn
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#1454885 - 03/15/16 08:44 PM
Re: question about dithering
[Re: uptildawn]
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Slabraton
Planeteer
Registered: 12/16/12
Posts: 16566
Loc: California
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Thank you. I figured it was in the MTK section but I couldn't find it.
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#1454891 - 03/15/16 08:57 PM
Re: question about dithering
[Re: Slabraton]
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Slabraton
Planeteer
Registered: 12/16/12
Posts: 16566
Loc: California
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I'm starting to think this is a subject that needs discussing in depth. I suspect many use the VS recorders and then make CDs without dithering first.
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#1513729 - 01/12/17 01:06 AM
Re: question about dithering
[Re: Slabraton]
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loudhvx
Planeteer
Registered: 02/19/01
Posts: 772
Loc: Chicago,IL,USA
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You would presumably be able to "fix" it later. Dither simply adds random noise at a user-selected bit level (in the MTK). For standard CD's, you would select "16-bit". This noise simply masks the correlated noise of truncation. Since adding the noise is basically the last alteration to the 16-bit signal before it goes to CD, it can be done anytime. You will only notice a difference right at the end of a fade out, or other really quiet portion of the song.
I have a site with some notes about the MTK, the "Soft-Clip" feature, bit depth etc.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/avsweb/index.html
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#1513744 - 01/12/17 01:59 AM
Re: question about dithering
[Re: loudhvx]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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You cannot "fix" the resulting truncation from 24 to 16 bits "later". The truncation dumps the lowest 8 bits - gone - thus, why you use dither to add a low level noise element to the thing, so that the noise is the thing that gets dumped and not low volume audio that you want to hear, such as reverb tails and decaying delays...
The noise of dithering is NOT masking the noise of truncation.
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uptildawn
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#1513756 - 01/12/17 03:47 AM
Re: question about dithering
[Re: uptildawn]
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loudhvx
Planeteer
Registered: 02/19/01
Posts: 772
Loc: Chicago,IL,USA
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Oops, you're right. It's been a long time. 
The noise gets added to the part to be removed. D'oh!
My suggestion would mask the truncation noise, but at the expense of adding a lot of noise. Not good.
Edited by loudhvx (01/12/17 03:49 AM)
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#1521518 - 02/28/17 09:05 AM
Re: question about dithering
[Re: loudhvx]
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Dr. Altsack aka Volltreffer
Planeteer
Registered: 01/04/02
Posts: 1781
Loc: Munich, Germany
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To understand dithering more, it may help to watch, how pictures (usually 8-bit grey) can be displayed in b/w (i.e. 1 bit) by dithering. Even though 7 bits are truncated, the result is quite ok...
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Dithering_algorithms.png
You can also see, that the kind of noise impacts the quality of output. Once you have transformed to b/w without dithering, you might at best just obfusciate the border between black and white areas but not getting the 'grey tones' back if you added noise and 'redithered' that way...
Edited by Dr. Altsack aka Volltreffer (02/28/17 09:10 AM)
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Ciao, aXel ------------------  imply depressed
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