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#1546009 - 09/30/17 06:31 AM VS-840EX update via MIDI
Paletin Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 09/28/17
Posts: 9
Loc: Pirkanmaa, FINLAND
Hello to all!

I just bought a second-hand VS-840EX which has version 2.0 in it. I've tried to update it to v2.05 via MIDi with no success. When i start updating (with SMFPlayer) pressing send the display on 840EX clears and then happens....nothing. 840EX doesn't blink MIDI LED at any stage on the update process but when I start 840EX normally (i.e. not in update mode) and send those MIDI files to 840EX the MIDI LED blinks as normally...That tells me that at least my USB-MIDI adapter works!!! Somehow I think that could it have something to do with MIDI Device ID...?

So has anybody managed to update VS-840EX to version 2.05 successfully via MIDI at all??? My laptop runs on Windows 7 Ultimate...

And second question is that is there any benefit to update from v2.0 to v2.05?

Starting to lose my mind

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#1546020 - 09/30/17 10:09 AM Re: VS-840EX update via MIDI [Re: Paletin]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8379
Loc: Iowa
I'm not confident that you have followed the instructions completely that roland outlines in the 840ex readme.txt file, since you don't actually describe that part of it and what you do describe doesn't sound right at all (the display clears???? - not to my knowledge, should it clear). The update instructions give a very specific order of events and messages that should be displayed - as follows:
2. Hold down MODE, INPUT, and ENTER while powering on the
VS-840EX. The message "Receive MID-EX?" will be displayed.
3. Press YES. The message "Now Waiting..." will be displayed.
4. Play back all Standard MIDI Files in sequential order.

You should definitely follow this order and see those messages as part of the update routine. If you do not, then either you're doing it wrong, or your setup is wrong, or the machine has a problem.

I'm not sure I understand how you are confirming the usb/midi adapter is working by starting the 840 normally and sending the midi files at the same time - to see the midi led blinking.

When the machine is "normally" powered up, it is in no way responding to the midi files being sent from your computer. The midi led on the VS recorders ALWAYS blinks as part of its normal operation... with or without midi messages being sent to it. And the usb adapter led indicator (if it has one) would blink while you are sending from the computer, but not be evidence that the information is being properly transferred and translated by the VS machine.

As far as benefits of the 2.05 over the 2.0 version?.... roland never describes their update details and that's frustrating..... so it's difficult to say exactly.

One important thing you should check, if the 840ex is like the other models in this respect - the os displayed in normal powering up of the VS doesn't contain the entire version number (on the VS models I have used). Besides that, your description of the two os versions - 2.0 and 2.05 are evidence to me that this is the case with the 840ex as well, since 2.0 only contains one digit after the decimal point, but 2.05 contains two digits.

With vs models I am familiar with, there is a special combination of buttons you need to hold down while powering up the machine, with the power button (and not from Restart state).

On other vs models you would view the full os number by holding down the track and status buttons to channel one, while turning the machine on. A screen would appear and stay static that gives various information, including the entire os version with the complete number of decimal places..... In your case, maybe it would read 2.00, or 2.01, or something like that. If it reads 2.05, then your machine is already updated to the last version roland has intentions of releasing. Unfortunately, I don't know what button combo that would be on the 840ex, nor do I know that it is actually necessary on that model..... only that I suspect it is the case because of your description of the two os' and their difference.

I hope this is helpful.




Edited by uptildawn (09/30/17 10:11 AM)
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1546031 - 09/30/17 12:26 PM Re: VS-840EX update via MIDI [Re: uptildawn]
Paletin Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 09/28/17
Posts: 9
Loc: Pirkanmaa, FINLAND
 Originally Posted By: uptildawn
I'm not confident that you have followed the instructions completely that roland outlines in the 840ex readme.txt file, since you don't actually describe that part of it and what you do describe doesn't sound right at all (the display clears???? - not to my knowledge, should it clear). The update instructions give a very specific order of events and messages that should be displayed - as follows:
2. Hold down MODE, INPUT, and ENTER while powering on the
VS-840EX. The message "Receive MID-EX?" will be displayed.
3. Press YES. The message "Now Waiting..." will be displayed.
4. Play back all Standard MIDI Files in sequential order.


Been there, done that :-) Just that order (you know, I'm not stupid...) I was just cutting it straight than write the whole protocol to my message :-D All those messages come to display as I go on with that order, only after that part where you press YES after that "Receive MID-EX?" the "Now waiting..." comes to display and when I start sending those MIDi-files from my laptop the display on 840EX "clears" (that is the message "Now waiting..." disappears and nothing comes to display...


 Originally Posted By: uptildawn
I'm not sure I understand how you are confirming the usb/midi adapter is working by starting the 840 normally and sending the midi files at the same time - to see the midi led blinking.

When the machine is "normally" powered up, it is in no way responding to the midi files being sent from your computer. The midi led on the VS recorders ALWAYS blinks as part of its normal operation... with or without midi messages being sent to it. And the usb adapter led indicator (if it has one) would blink while you are sending from the computer, but not be evidence that the information is being properly transferred and translated by the VS machine.


I meant that the LED on 840EX blinks at the same rate than that on my USB-MIDI adapter when it is sending data to 840EX... Of course 840EX doesn't acknowledge that data at that stage but it confirms that the route from my laptop to MIDI IN on 840EX is working...
One question more; should the MIDI LED on 840EX blink at approximately same data rate when you do the upgrade? Because mine doesn't...

 Originally Posted By: uptildawn
As far as benefits of the 2.05 over the 2.0 version?.... roland never describes their update details and that's frustrating..... so it's difficult to say exactly.


Yep, that is surely one of Rolands biggest sins. Same thing with my other Roland-made gear that I own or have owned (VG-8, VG-8EX, VG-99) (and although they are not under Roland logo) all BOSS multieffects...

 Originally Posted By: uptildawn
One important thing you should check, if the 840ex is like the other models in this respect - the os displayed in normal powering up of the VS doesn't contain the entire version number (on the VS models I have used). Besides that, your description of the two os versions - 2.0 and 2.05 are evidence to me that this is the case with the 840ex as well, since 2.0 only contains one digit after the decimal point, but 2.05 contains two digits.


No, 840EX doesn't show any version number at normal boot-up (if I remember correctly :-D )

 Originally Posted By: uptildawn
With vs models I am familiar with, there is a special combination of buttons you need to hold down while powering up the machine, with the power button (and not from Restart state).


Yes, and on 840EX this combination is SOLO and MONITOR SEL while powering up :-)

 Originally Posted By: uptildawn
I hope this is helpful.


Everything helps, even if it is only a bit but it surely helps :-)


Edited by Paletin (09/30/17 12:40 PM)

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#1546035 - 09/30/17 12:52 PM Re: VS-840EX update via MIDI [Re: Paletin]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8379
Loc: Iowa
the led blinking in sync or not with the adapter does not indicate that the vs is seeing that data being sent.... unless you are in update mode. Of course, then you would be updating the os, too. \:\)

I've mistakenly assumed that the midi light blinking indicated some such thing in the past and it turned out not to be the case. I just don't believe what you're seeing is any confirmation of any midi data being transferred to the vs in that stage of operation.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1546038 - 09/30/17 01:31 PM Re: VS-840EX update via MIDI [Re: uptildawn]
Paletin Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 09/28/17
Posts: 9
Loc: Pirkanmaa, FINLAND
 Originally Posted By: uptildawn
the led blinking in sync or not with the adapter does not indicate that the vs is seeing that data being sent.... unless you are in update mode. Of course, then you would be updating the os, too. \:\)

I've mistakenly assumed that the midi light blinking indicated some such thing in the past and it turned out not to be the case. I just don't believe what you're seeing is any confirmation of any midi data being transferred to the vs in that stage of operation.



OK, but I managed to check with my oscilloscope that there is data present at MIDI IN on VS at that stage. Of course VS doesn't recognize it unless:

A) VS is in firmware upgrade mode

B) VS has been set as SLAVE to receive MIDI data (i.e SYNC, Program change, patch change and so on...)

I think that maybe SMFPlayer + Windows 7 + my USB-MIDI adapter doesn't add up, that is one of those isn't compatible and the SysEx data that occurs at VS MIDI IN is in fact somehow "mutated" so VS doesn't recognize it as MIDI SysEx data (i.e. is waiting and waiting and waiting for that firmware update data forever :-D ). And my money goes to that USB-MIDI adapter...

I have to look and search my old trustworthy MIDISport 1x1 and try that (if and when I find it...).

Anyway, the most important question for now is that has someone EVER succeeded to update VS-840EX firmware update via MIDI??? I read elsewhere in this forum that it is impossible to upgrade from for example 840 to 840EX with MIDI, only works by ZIP disk

But, anyway, thanks for contribution! As I said earlier every bit of information ,no matter how small, is always helpful...

Cheers,


Edited by Paletin (09/30/17 02:29 PM)

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#1546043 - 09/30/17 03:07 PM Re: VS-840EX update via MIDI [Re: Paletin]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8379
Loc: Iowa
the midisport has never let me down! Either has my old Audigy card/box with midi built in.

Sorry can't help any with the other questions...... somebody will have something to say eventually......
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1546056 - 09/30/17 03:59 PM Re: VS-840EX update via MIDI [Re: uptildawn]
Paletin Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 09/28/17
Posts: 9
Loc: Pirkanmaa, FINLAND
 Originally Posted By: uptildawn
the midisport has never let me down! Either has my old Audigy card/box with midi built in.

Sorry can't help any with the other questions...... somebody will have something to say eventually......


Yep, me neither :-) Unfortunately my old trustworthy Audigy 2 Platinum Ex died and I had to upgrade it with Soundblaster Z which apparently doesn't have any MIDI at all :-(
Well, have to find that MIDISport, I know it's lurking somewhere in my pile of junk :-)

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#1546117 - 10/01/17 05:45 AM Re: VS-840EX update via MIDI [Re: Paletin]
Paletin Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 09/28/17
Posts: 9
Loc: Pirkanmaa, FINLAND
 Originally Posted By: uptildawn
One important thing you should check, if the 840ex is like the other models in this respect - the os displayed in normal powering up of the VS doesn't contain the entire version number (on the VS models I have used). Besides that, your description of the two os versions - 2.0 and 2.05 are evidence to me that this is the case with the 840ex as well, since 2.0 only contains one digit after the decimal point, but 2.05 contains two digits.


A little correction: when I checked the version number it showed 2.00 (with two digits) and NOT 2.0 (with only one digit) as I stated wrong... :-) Just to set things straight...

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#1546118 - 10/01/17 07:16 AM Re: VS-840EX update via MIDI [Re: uptildawn]
Paletin Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 09/28/17
Posts: 9
Loc: Pirkanmaa, FINLAND
 Originally Posted By: uptildawn
the midisport has never let me down! Either has my old Audigy card/box with midi built in.

Sorry can't help any with the other questions...... somebody will have something to say eventually......


Managed to find my old trustworthy MIDISport and guess what? Plug it in, installed driver and started update process and WHAM! VS showed: "Now receiving...Ver.2.05..." and counting bytes (in hexadecimal mode) :-) The rest is history, VS got updated and now is VS-840EX Ver. 2.05... Guess who's happy bunny now :-)

Yesterday evening when i fiddled around with VS I copied those DEMo files to my CF card and plug it in...But VS didn't show any of those demo files! Fiddled more and got a brilliant idea: what if I copy all those files in this 840DEMO.zip except SYSTEM.VS1 (overwriting all other files that were in the CF). Plug it in once again and started VS...Again, WHAM!!! It showed that there are those demo files on the CF and they really work :-)

EDIT: Of course, the CF card MUST be formatted (or "initialized" as Roland says :-D ) in VS first!!!


Edited by Paletin (10/01/17 09:33 AM)

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#1546130 - 10/01/17 11:51 AM Re: VS-840EX update via MIDI [Re: Paletin]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8379
Loc: Iowa
That IS great news all the way around!

People have had varying degrees of success with the os updates using usb/midi adapters - some work and some don't - price doesn't appear to be the deciding factor either. The midisport/Audigy/midi anywhere other than the usb route seem to work without fail.... go figure.

Way to go with the demo songs, too!
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1546147 - 10/01/17 02:42 PM Re: VS-840EX update via MIDI [Re: uptildawn]
Paletin Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 09/28/17
Posts: 9
Loc: Pirkanmaa, FINLAND
 Originally Posted By: uptildawn
That IS great news all the way around!

People have had varying degrees of success with the os updates using usb/midi adapters - some work and some don't - price doesn't appear to be the deciding factor either. The midisport/Audigy/midi anywhere other than the usb route seem to work without fail.... go figure.

Way to go with the demo songs, too!


Yep, now the next thing I might (just MIGHT!!!) to try is upgrading 840EX to 840GX via MIDI...Just to see if I manage to get my VS fried :-)

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#1546158 - 10/01/17 04:52 PM Re: VS-840EX update via MIDI [Re: Paletin]
Paletin Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 09/28/17
Posts: 9
Loc: Pirkanmaa, FINLAND
 Originally Posted By: Paletin
 Originally Posted By: uptildawn
That IS great news all the way around!

People have had varying degrees of success with the os updates using usb/midi adapters - some work and some don't - price doesn't appear to be the deciding factor either. The midisport/Audigy/midi anywhere other than the usb route seem to work without fail.... go figure.

Way to go with the demo songs, too!


Yep, now the next thing I might (just MIGHT!!!) to try is upgrading 840EX to 840GX via MIDI...Just to see if I manage to get my VS fried :-)


And now it's done!!! My VS is now TADAA!!! VS840GX version 2.52 :-) :-) :-) Update from EX to GX went really well and smoothly...

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#1546160 - 10/01/17 04:59 PM Re: VS-840EX update via MIDI [Re: Paletin]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8379
Loc: Iowa
Congrats!
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1632803 - 10/16/19 11:58 AM Re: VS-840EX update via MIDI [Re: uptildawn]
reamer77 Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 10/15/19
Posts: 2
For those looking for a USB to MIDI cable, I used the following to upgrade my VS-840EX from 2.0.0 to 2.0.5

* Lenovo Desktop Computer running Windows 10
* Wersi USB to MIDI cable (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FTJXFLT/)
* SMF Player for Windows

I got the software from https://www.roland.com/global/support/by_product/vs-840ex/

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