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#1558760 - 01/21/18 02:24 PM So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender.............
Marty Gilman Online   content
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So, I Played an all-original Pre-CBS Fender (pre 1965) bass.

It was a no big deal, no magic, I like mine (2000) better bass.

I didn't like the guy's amp, an acoustic with a 15". The action wasn't great, the tone was not rich, no matter if he played it or me. He was a very skilled musician too.

I really am put off by folks telling me they have a rare, vintage, pre-anything and thinking that is a big deal. It's all hype and thinking something would make you a better player or make you sound better.

I do own the Stradivarius of saxes, in my opinion, but don't really need it, never brag about it to anyone.

I am sorry if you still lust for the 1971 Danelecto Whatchamacallit, serial #98765432. \:\)


rant over.


-m
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#1558762 - 01/21/18 02:36 PM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: Marty Gilman]
ulank Offline
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Word. In the end, quality is all that matters. I think people just tend to fall in love with “vintage” because they associate it with music and sounds they grew to love.
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#1558764 - 01/21/18 02:39 PM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: Marty Gilman]
Timster Offline
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There you go. The difference between a collector and a player.
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#1558770 - 01/21/18 03:13 PM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: Timster]
Popmann Offline
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You're right, there's nothing magical about ANY "group" of instrument. I've read before, and this gels--that pre CBS fenders that sucked, which would be most of them....got hacked up in the 80s....retired....broken....chucked....that the only real advantage that "pre CBS Fender" has in instruments is simply that when a PLAYER found a great axe, they kept it in play--it changed hands and made more music....getting all the sonic patina that comes from living and being played and repaired and cherished for 50 years....and now it's something you can't really get in a brand new instrument.
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#1558772 - 01/21/18 03:21 PM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: Popmann]
ickalien Offline
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I would not make a statement of quality on a pre-anything until it was put to right. I wonder if the bass was set up properly with the pups the correct distance from the strings, did it need a fret job, were the strings sooooo ancient they were dead, was the neck angle correct ect:?
I wonder what the bass would of sounded like on the rig you use.
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#1558774 - 01/21/18 03:52 PM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: ickalien]
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yeah, I cant imagine that a 1958 les paul sounds like its worth hundreds of thousands of dollars...I get that its a colectible but is io really worth a thousand times more than just a good les paul?
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#1558782 - 01/21/18 05:11 PM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: ickalien]
flatcat Administrator Offline
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 Originally Posted By: ickalien
I would not make a statement of quality on a pre-anything until it was put to right. I wonder if the bass was set up properly with the pups the correct distance from the strings, did it need a fret job, were the strings sooooo ancient they were dead, was the neck angle correct ect:?
I wonder what the bass would of sounded like on the rig you use.
This.
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#1558789 - 01/21/18 06:25 PM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: flatcat]
Mooseboy Offline
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Well, I'll just sit here with my 1965 "L" series Stratocaster that I've owned since '67 and wallow in my misery \:D
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#1558835 - 01/22/18 10:35 AM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: Mooseboy]
MadGuitrst Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Mooseboy
Well, I'll just sit here with my 1965 "L" series Stratocaster that I've owned since '67 and wallow in my misery \:D

Yet, it's your Variax that gets the most playing time....
...and get rid off those EMGs and get a proper set of vintage PUs, would ya???? \:D
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#1558839 - 01/22/18 11:06 AM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: Marty Gilman]
Webster Offline
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I get it. I've played a few early sixties pre-CBS strats and was entirely underwhelmed. I've also played a couple from that era that were fantastic instruments.

I've also played some same year/model Les Pauls where one was great and a keeper... the other... shit - you couldn't give it to me.


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#1558840 - 01/22/18 11:33 AM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: Webster]
SteveW Offline
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Well I got a couple of grand for my 78 Fender Jazz Bass.

Had great sound but was really, really hard to play.

Have no Bass now but use iFretless Bass on my iPad.

Steve
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#1558867 - 01/22/18 01:45 PM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: SteveW]
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My Yamaha SA2000 was modeled after the Gibson 335. Yamaha took suggestions from Robben Ford and others on how to improve the design. I've never played a Gibson 335 which even came close to my Yamaha SA2000. But, naturally, the resale value of it is nothing compared to a Gibson 335.

A friend of mine is the original owner of a pre-CBS Precision and it's the best of it's kind I've ever played. Other Precisions seem like Squires in comparison.

My brother had a Martin D-35 which is the acoustic I compare all others with. But it was built before they changed woods. I've heard a number of people claim that Martin has been getting by on their rep ever since.

If I could, I would buy up every G&L guitar and bass I could. They are destined to become collectors items.

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#1558872 - 01/22/18 01:53 PM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: Slabraton]
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Heh!

I have a '71 Martin D-35, too. Sounds great, wonderful to play.

MG, I probably forgot to mention that I took my '67 back to as original as I could. The original pickups are back in.
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#1558913 - 01/22/18 06:08 PM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: Mooseboy]
motown59 Offline
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old guitars are intriguing, feel different, smell different and do have an allure. Whether they play or sound better? Like mentioned above, that depends on the setup and how they mate with an amp. Nitro finished guitars change, the wood absorbs stuff and to an extent, a guitar or bass is still a living breathing thing. I do believe that guitars that have been played a lot have a vibe.

One thing for certain with Fender guitars; the necks had a pretty wide variance in terms of feel and size. People sanded and shaved them differently. If you ever get to go to the factory and custom shop, you'll get to see all the various neck blanks from famous player's axes. Fender makes an exact copy, then a special router machine can crank out an exact copy of Clapton's, Vaughn's or whoever's neck.

The new guitars are very nice.They are pretty consistent. The lower cost ones are finished in poly, the more expensive american ones in nitro. Like i mentioned, I think a guitar needs years of playing and the poly finish doesn't wear the same, doesn't have the same vibe. The custom shop master built guitars are interpretations of the builders. And, the Custom shop's quality is far better than the 1950s and 60s instruments. But, they're made in a much smaller quantity and not in the assembly line vibe that Leo interpreted for Fender. Of course, a team built Fender can be $4k and up. A master built can be $5-10k. They truly have some amazing builders over there

I've owned quite a few vintage Fenders: P bass, Jazz bass, 52 Tele, 60s Strats, 12 strings, Lap Steels and of course a bunch of amps, 50s, 60s and 70s. I've always been a Fender guy.

I don't really own any vintage Fender guitars anymore. Sold all of it to remodel a house. They go up in value more than any bank account savings or stock market move. They're also a responsibility at home and at a gig.

My 1980 Strat is starting to feel broken in, my 1985 bass is getting there. I think there are another ten or so instruments around that are in various states of used hours.
Some of those vintage instruments were special, some were not, other than being vintage and cool. I regret selling a lot of them.


Edited by motown59 (01/22/18 06:11 PM)
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#1558946 - 01/22/18 08:06 PM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: motown59]
Slabraton Offline
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I had a Silvertone plywood guitar modeled after a Gretch Tennessean which had 20 years of playing in it when I bought the Yamaha SA2000. I actually preferred the Silvertone until I broke in the Yamaha because it sounded warmer. The only solution is to play it constantly. What a bummer!
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#1559014 - 01/23/18 10:09 AM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: Slabraton]
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My experience with vintage gear over the past 30 plus years of doing this is like many others’ here (i.e., it’s hit or miss). I see it this way: Old cars and especially hot rods and muscle cars are super cool to me. If I had millions of dollars I’d own a few, but the reality is modern vehicles are far superior in every way. They perform better, get better MPGs, are more efficient, are more flexible, are far more reliable, etc. So, my money’s better invested in modern functionality, as opposed to nostalgia. In most cases I would feel foolish buying an old relic guitar for a ton of money for no other reason than it’s an old relic guitar—especially when there are other guitars of the same make that probably play and sound better. There are exceptions to this, of course, but generally, that’s been my experience with older gear. Plus, most dudes, when they bought these instruments 50 years ago, played the hell out of them and never expected they’d be sought by collectors 50 years later. They’ve taken a beating by their owners and by time. Why do I want to pay extra money for that? Back in the day—before the whole vintage market nonsense—my peers and I would go down to the local pawn shops and buy these old beat up instruments for a song because that’s all we could afford in terms of a decent instrument. At some point it flipped, and all the sudden the more beat up and aged it was them more value it held to collectors. I never got that….

Instrument building today has come so far over the past 20 years. I’ve found very few older guitars that really feel or play better or more special than anything else. Certain instruments speak to me, and certain ones don’t. It usually has nothing to do with the age of the instrument. Yet, I’ll also point out that certain woods cure over time that give them great resonance and superb tone. I think old Ludwig drum shells made of birch, maple, etc. are really cool because I actually cut my teeth on an old Ludwig kit 25 years or so ago (mid 60s I think). But, I’d still prefer my modern Mapex Meridian maple or a Gretsch Catalina kit to most any vintage kit I’ve ever played. My American Strat (circa 1995) or my American Tele circa 1996) play every bit as good as any others I’ve played from the 60s or 70s. Then again, there was one old Strat that I played way back in 1991 that I wish I would have some how snagged. I think it was a 68 or 69. The shop owner was asking $300 or so for it. I’ve always lamented not putting some money down on it right there, but alas, I was a junior in high school with a menial job at the local grocery store. Before I could put anything down on it was gone……..but that guitar had magic and fit my hands like a gl0ove at the time………I’ve never played one like that since….think it was a Hendrix copy…….
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#1559595 - 01/26/18 02:16 PM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: Gretsch 6120]
Marty Gilman Online   content
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saw a new sales gimmick term on CL today, a trumpet was listed as "pre-company strike". ( I heard those were magic \:\)

Makes me want to buy it, ................not!


-m
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#1559597 - 01/26/18 02:41 PM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: Marty Gilman]
Slabraton Offline
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Marty, I don't think I want to buy an instrument made by a guy simmering with resentments towards his employer.

Edited by Slabraton (01/26/18 02:42 PM)

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#1559628 - 01/26/18 08:36 PM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: Slabraton]
Mooseboy Offline
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I get a kick out of Fender's "Roadworn" series, and all of the boutique builders that are following that trend.

"Oh, look at me! I have a beat up guitar, so I've earned my stripes!"

Hahahahaaaaa! Get a new guitar and make it roadworn yourself. Take, oh maybe, 50 years or so to do it. Then you've earned your stripes. \:D
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#1559629 - 01/26/18 09:17 PM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: Mooseboy]
motown59 Offline
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I have no problem with pre-worn guitars. Stripes are earned from what hits your ears, not your eyes. There could be some dissonance with how things might look initially, but after the playing starts nobody cares except guitar players.

People buy what they think is cool, attractive or appropriate. Some people buy new guitars every 4 months and yet sound the same too. An old school blues band with an Ibanez Steve Vai guitar and Yamaha electric drums doesn't seem right, and chances are it wouldn't be. But you get no bonus points from me for having a real worn guitar over a pre-worn once, or something seemingly more appropriate.

There's also something to be said for not worrying about damaging a new guitar.

....a classic old guy comment: " I put all the wear on my guitar myself, sonny"


Edited by motown59 (01/26/18 09:18 PM)
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#1559637 - 01/26/18 09:40 PM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: motown59]
Mooseboy Offline
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 Originally Posted By: motown59
....a classic old guy comment: " I put all the wear on my guitar myself, sonny"
And there you have it. My point to a "T". Thanks for understanding, kel.
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#1559644 - 01/26/18 09:55 PM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: Mooseboy]
motown59 Offline
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It was an anecdotal observation, not a point. Thanks for not understanding
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"I love what you guys are trying to do up there" ...from an audience member at one of my gigs.
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#1559736 - 01/27/18 04:38 PM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: motown59]
Andy McClelland Offline
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Most guitars look look like crap.


 Originally Posted By: motown59
There's also something to be said for not worrying about damaging a new guitar.


When I bought my Collings (brand new), I took it back to the shop about a month later (Twelfth Fret and these guys know guitars) for a truss rod tweak. I apologized to the guy (one of the owners) about a ding I'd already put on it. The guy said something like "no no don't don't be sorry, it shows it's being played". \:\)
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#1559753 - 01/27/18 07:06 PM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: Andy McClelland]
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I dont like brand new becasue then I worry about giving it the first dent....I dont feel like road worn looks any better or is any more desireable though I have to say I took some scotch nbrite to the back of the neck of my les paul and now its super smooth to move around back there....I find the older ones tend to be a bit finicky which is fine at home
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#1559763 - 01/27/18 10:02 PM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: jimmyrock]
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I played the same telecaster for like 7 years, both gigging and rehearsing very regularly in dirty rehearsal spaces and bars. For a long time, I would not play anything else. It's from the mid 90's. The frets are pretty worn , and there are some dings. However, I just don't put alot of wear on guitars. I don't baby them, but I don't intentionally bang them up either. The edges of the fretboard are chipped and worn, but I don't think those "wear spots" will form in 100 years. I have a friend who can own a guitar for 2 months, and all of the hardware will be corroded.

I asked my old guitar teacher, who is a killer player and vintage guitar expert. His response was, "The finish on the old guitars was technically crap. That's why new guitars don't check or wear like the old ones." He's right. The finish on that telecaster is like plastic. I think that the new "relic ready" Fender guitars is a cool concept. They come unrelic-ed with a light finish. I own several Gibson guitars from the 90's and early 2000's. the finish is noticeably different than my '61 Epiphone olympic. The lacquer is definitely different. In the end, who cares? I'm rocking a Les Paul Trad Pro II as my main guitar these days. It's not super-desirable, but it's a great guitar.

BTW, the '61 Epiphone has been modded with a p90. It sounds great, but it's hard to play. That has been my experience with the limited vintage guitars that I've played. Most needed refrets.

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#1559772 - 01/28/18 12:21 AM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: motown59]
Mooseboy Offline
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 Originally Posted By: motown59
It was an anecdotal observation, not a point. Thanks for not understanding
Hahahaaa! Man, you just don't get sarcasm, do you? I love playing you for a fool, but I try to keep it to once a week, maybe \:D
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#1559798 - 01/28/18 09:04 AM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: Mooseboy]
motown59 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Mooseboy
I love playing you for a fool, but I try to keep it to once a week, maybe \:D


Not familiar with the song...
You get better at it if you tried playing it twice per week. ...on your chosen instrument of course
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"I love what you guys are trying to do up there" ...from an audience member at one of my gigs.
Gear: Fender Medium pick

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#1559805 - 01/28/18 11:23 AM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: motown59]
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on refelection of my baises, i used to be very anti-PRS becasue its seemed like everyone was playing them..now I just understand why \:\)
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#1559809 - 01/28/18 11:45 AM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: jimmyrock]
Marty Gilman Online   content
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I saw this 1951 sax on local CL today

https://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/msg/d/selmer-sba-tenor-saxophone/6475768562.html

I can't stand the idea of holding this corroded thing in my hand/mouth, never mind the $7500 price tag.

I don't drive a vintage car because I don't want any obsolescence headaches and maintenance, and I DO want newer technology and all improvements have to offer.

-m
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#1559822 - 01/28/18 01:47 PM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: jimmyrock]
Mooseboy Offline
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 Originally Posted By: jimmyrock
on refelection of my baises, i used to be very anti-PRS becasue its seemed like everyone was playing them..now I just understand why \:\)
I took my PRS Mira Semi-Hollowbody to the gig last night. Holy cow, what a comfortable, easy playing, great sounding guitar!

And by the way, yesterday was her third birthday.
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#1559843 - 01/28/18 08:19 PM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: Mooseboy]
Tao Jones Offline
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Sure helps to age an acoustic a few decades.
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#1559848 - 01/28/18 09:14 PM Re: So, I Played a PRE CBS Fender............. [Re: Tao Jones]
motown59 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Tao Jones
Sure helps to age an acoustic a few decades.


Indeed, especially anything with a lacquer finish. Poly finishes don't seem to age the same. But yea, you gotta put some mojo into the wood
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kel

"I love what you guys are trying to do up there" ...from an audience member at one of my gigs.
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