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#1569797 - 04/24/18 05:00 PM VS backup to ISO/DMG
SMUDGE Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/29/17
Posts: 41
Anybody on here have experience backing up VS CD/DVD data to ISO or DMG ?
Any issues burning back to CD/DVD?
I have magazines of VS data disks and I want to back them up to an external harddrive.

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#1569856 - 04/25/18 03:47 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: SMUDGE]
DapperDan99 Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 23
if you search the forums, depending on your system, there is a way to hook up removable media, copy data to it, then extract/backup to a computer.

I have a 2400cd, that I added an external e-sata/usb drive to. I can unplug this (when the vs2400cd is powered down) and hook it to my computer and copy the files and transform them into .wav files to edit in reaper.

I have a vs1680 and that has an external scsi port, so I added an external scsi reader with a compact flash card. I can format the cards in the Roland operating system and then save songs to it or backup songs to it and then after shutting down the vs1680, read the compact flash cards on a pc and edit the songs.

that's how I archive my material, and also manipulate it in other programs.

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#1570040 - 04/28/18 01:06 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: DapperDan99]
SMUDGE Offline
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Registered: 08/29/17
Posts: 41
WAV backup isn't an issue.
Does anyone know if ISO/DMG is a good way to backup project data?

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#1570045 - 04/28/18 02:52 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: SMUDGE]
uptildawn Offline
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8427
Loc: Iowa
I think I created a working iso of one of my 1680 backups once a long time ago, but then couldn't do it when I tried some months (or a year or more) later. Don't know if it was the program I used to create the iso, or what........
Haven't bothered with it since.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1570622 - 05/04/18 09:09 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: uptildawn]
SMUDGE Offline
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Registered: 08/29/17
Posts: 41
Anyone have a preferred method of backing up VS project data to hard disk beyond indivual track WAV export?
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#1570623 - 05/04/18 09:34 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: SMUDGE]
uptildawn Offline
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8427
Loc: Iowa
If you're talking about a pre-2480 VS, there are so few options. I don't think there's really the opportunity to have a 'preferred' way. It's just do it or lose it.

You've got CD-R to back up whole SONGS in data format - which is totally at the mercy of the VS' ability to recognize and recover its own data burns and which sometimes fails. Notes can be easily typed up on jewel case inserts to either put in jewel cases, or compartment sleeves with the CD-R.

You've got VirDIS and its virtual hard drives on a PC, currently only available to pc desktop computers that have spare PCI and/or PCIe card slots. This works about as well as it can get and is as reliable as anything I've seen - whether stored on PC hard drives, or to DVD-R (or CD-R) burned as data discs using the PC's hardware/software. Notes can easily be typed up on disc jewel case inserts, or typed up in a word doc to be kept in the main folder where the VirDIS vHDs are stored on the computer.

Lastly, I suppose you could back up to compact flash (CF and SDHC cards), with the right adapter system in place (internal hd replacement, or external scsi port). That method is physically so tiny that it would require extensive notes on paper tucked away with the cards to know what was contained on them for future use, or typed up on word docs and stored or printed.

Beyond those three options, there is nothing else that will store complete data records of an entire SONG file - settings and all - to be recalled to the VS at a later date.

The only one of the three I don't trust at all is the CD-R backup from external scsi burner - the VS and its very few compatible burners are often at odds with each other.... with the blame going mostly to the VS, if you ask me.

In all honesty though, I do still have a load of discs which I expect - or at least hope and pray - that I can recover at some point in time, if for no other reason than to transfer them to a PC.

In order to use any of the VS SONGS on any system OTHER than the VS, it becomes absolutely necessary to extract the raw VS tracks to common .wav files. So again, what choices do we have?...... really.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1570663 - 05/05/18 12:16 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: uptildawn]
SMUDGE Offline
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Registered: 08/29/17
Posts: 41
Am I wrong in assuming the only potential hangup in backing up VS project/song files as ISO to an external HD and then burning them back to CD is not having a functioning VS CD drive?
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#1570669 - 05/05/18 01:26 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: SMUDGE]
uptildawn Offline
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8427
Loc: Iowa
that and being able to confirm that burning an ISO on a pc actually creates a copy of the VS backup that the VS can and will read. I'm assuming that you're implying to at some point burn a copy of the ISO image to a CD-R to recover on the VS...




Edited by uptildawn (05/05/18 01:27 PM)
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1570804 - 05/07/18 02:48 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: uptildawn]
SMUDGE Offline
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Registered: 08/29/17
Posts: 41
Ideally, I would have the ability to recover VS project data from an ISO that has been burned back to CD-R.
I wanted to know if VS users had experience with creating ISOs or DMGs (for DVD-Rs) for such a purpose.

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#1573192 - 06/02/18 07:20 AM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: SMUDGE]
keeppracticing Offline
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Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 1218
Loc: Atlanta
I've used CD Imgburn successfully. It's free (v2.5.8.0, coded by Lightning UK)

I took a large backup data cd and made an iso image, uploaded it to the cloud, downloaded it, burned the iso image back to another cd-r , loaded it back into the 2480 and it worked.

I asked an out of state friend to download it to, but he couldn't get it to load back in (he had a 2480HD and was using the external QPS CD burner...we never figured out why it wouldn't work for him.)

I'd recommend downloading the free program and giving it a try.

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#1573626 - 06/05/18 04:16 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: keeppracticing]
SMUDGE Offline
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Registered: 08/29/17
Posts: 41
Thank you. I will try your approach and post my experience.
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#1579615 - 08/01/18 01:32 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: SMUDGE]
SMUDGE Offline
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Registered: 08/29/17
Posts: 41
Ok, well I've seen the light and I don't think there is a point to backing up VS project data discs to DMG/ISO when my goal all along has been to use the individual WAV files in Serato and other samplers etc.
I have a question though. When the time comes for me to install an SSD in my 2400 will I still be able to/will there be a point to still saving song data? What I'm going to start doing is simply export all the WAVs in groups/individually and forget backing up Undo's, Mixer settings etc.
Furthermore,did installing a SSD change the way you approach backing up your songs?
Thanks in advance for your input!

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#1579616 - 08/01/18 01:45 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: SMUDGE]
uptildawn Offline
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8427
Loc: Iowa
Backing up songs for me means backing up the entire project (whether or not to save undos is a matter of preference for me, unless I'm only backing up a completed project, in which case undos matter very little). If all I want to do is convert my VS tracks to wav form for using on the pc, then I don't consider that backing up my songs. Often times I will keep both the backed up projects and their extracted wav files.

Installing an ssd has little to do with backing up vs. not backing up, in my opinion. It's no different than to ask if a person bothers to back up their pc files after they've switched over from spinning drives to solid state drives..... I certainly would not stop backing up my pc drives.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1579720 - 08/01/18 10:51 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: uptildawn]
keeppracticing Offline
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Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 1218
Loc: Atlanta
I still haven't upgraded to SSD, bought the parts, been too busy.

With the cost of cd-rs so cheap, I advise everyone to keep their projects/sessions backed up. Anytime I work, I backup on a daily basis. If I'm working with someone who lives out of state, I backup on our breaks. Losing stuff sucks. Redoing stuff is time consuming and can be draining to the point of affecting the redos. Back your stuff up.

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#1579770 - 08/02/18 02:16 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: keeppracticing]
SMUDGE Offline
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Registered: 08/29/17
Posts: 41
Ok gang, I have an additional question for the board, but please keep those answers coming to the first one. Very insightful!
I'm backing up everything I have from minidisc, cdr, dvdr, floppy, usb, SATA, you name it to a couple of 4 TB drives. One is a really nice rugged LaCie I got from Apple for FREE :-) and the other is a 100$ WD. The plastic WD is more delicate and only accepts USB3 while the rubber cushioned aluminum LaCie has USB3 and Thunderbolt2.
My general workflow is to backup simultaneously to both drives and use the LaCie for everyday applications, running it for hours at a time accessing the data with multiple applications, sequencers, Serato, samplers, Audacity etc. The WD goes in a firebox until I need to to a backup, and when it is full will probably end up offsite in my hayloft just to be extra safe.
Is there an additional measure aside from using a cloud backup service that I can take to ensure that the data on my duplicate drives is preserved? I basically stopped backing up to cdr/dvdr when I got my 4TBs.
Thanks again in advance and thanks for the replies so far.

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#1579774 - 08/02/18 03:05 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: SMUDGE]
uptildawn Offline
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8427
Loc: Iowa
Whenever "extra safe" is the goal, a hayloft is always the first thing that comes to my mind. \:\)

My two biggest concerns about multiple backups -
1- people always advise to use multiple media formats and not just multiple backups, but how many of us can count on any media format and its associated hardware to be relevant for more than a few years anymore? - CDs and DVDs are dying a fast death, zip/jaz drives are long gone, spinning hard drives are not far behind CD/DVD.... and do I really want to pay for and trust some cloud service in who knows what unknown land to secure my precious work and give it back to me when I need/want it?

2- The larger the storage medium, the more potential for loss, when/if it goes belly up.

I'm not trying to throw cold water on the fire here........ maybe it just reminds me of how fragile all this stuff can be.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1579786 - 08/02/18 04:16 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: uptildawn]
SMUDGE Offline
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Registered: 08/29/17
Posts: 41
Barring any farmer's daughters or traveling salesmen I figured it would be safe.
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#1579828 - 08/02/18 07:26 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: SMUDGE]
uptildawn Offline
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8427
Loc: Iowa
At least keep the backups sealed airtight, if keeping them someplace that has the potential for lots of dust.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1579831 - 08/02/18 08:55 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: uptildawn]
SMUDGE Offline
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Registered: 08/29/17
Posts: 41
Alright everybody, what about partitioning the drives? I've read that this is a good way to preserve data in the event that one partition is damaged or fails.
Anyone know if partitioned larger capacity externals have longer lifespans than partitioned smaller capacity ones? Does the larger volume mean a bigger chance of failing or is it up to other factors like wear and tear and overall manufacturing quality?

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#1579832 - 08/02/18 09:23 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: SMUDGE]
uptildawn Offline
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8427
Loc: Iowa
It's difficult for the average uninformed person to judge still, I think. I mean there are people who do servers that use 6TB drives all the time, but I suspect that they have contingency plans working all the time to allow for sudden and unexpected drive failures. Personally, I don't have a great feeling about the longevity of really large drives.

If nothing else though, the larger the drive the longer it takes to defrag, which still needs to be done, even on drives devoted to archiving/backing up files. Even a 1-2TB drive can take a very, very long time to defrag..... certainly lots longer than the 80-160GB drives I used to use, even a few years back.

Partitions can help with defrag and seeking, etc. But that also means you're limiting your backup space per partition again.... nothing sucked more than my being limited to 2GB partitions on the 1680, when most of my work involved 16-20 track, 2hr+ concerts with only one chance to change over partitions across two 1680s and an 880.

Even worse, when I started working on personal projects with a buddy and we'd eat up 16 tracks and a load of v-tracks on almost every song for a CD. I had a heck of a time keeping track of and shuffling around 10-14 songs across a single 12GB drive with 6 x 2GB partitions. I'm just pointing out how partitions can limit, as well as help.

I think a partition can fail or be damaged in the sense of corrupted data and/or sectors, but not in the sense of like losing a finger still means you have an almost fully functioning hand. A "damaged" partition would likely mean a damaged HD and possibly mean permanent loss of data - at least without a lot of work and possibly cost to recover.

I would guess, too - speaking of - that larger HDs cost more for data recovery...

There's bound to be drawbacks to go with the benefits of the larger capacity.... maybe a few smaller drives in a server case would be a good solution?.... depends on how you need to access and maintain them, I guess.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1579900 - 08/03/18 05:23 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: uptildawn]
SMUDGE Offline
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Registered: 08/29/17
Posts: 41
UtD you are on top of this stuff!
I'm wondering what is the success/fail rate of drives running as RAID. It seems like a RAID setup, turning multiple drives into a single volume, would be the exact opposite of partitioning a single drive. When one of the RAID drives fails/corrupts I wonder how that affects the other drives? I wonder if large capacity drives in a RAID configuration have the same lifespan that they would when used individually. I also wonder about the lifespan of smaller drives in the same configuration.
Also, is there such a thing as configuring multiple drives in RAID and then partitioning each drive according to its original storage capacity? Is that completely pointless? It seems like the sort of thing that would invert the fabric of space and time.
Also, when I stopped backing up to DVDr/CDr I isolated the post DVDr/CDr data in its own folder on the twin externals. Is there any point to making an old fashioned DVDr/CDr backup of that data and storing the discs in a magazine possibly never to see the light of day again, or is it as I suspect that SSD storage is the general direction all data backup is headed?

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#1579908 - 08/03/18 07:30 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: SMUDGE]
uptildawn Offline
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8427
Loc: Iowa
That's a whole lot of stuff there!!
My only experience with RAID (and as I understand it, there are more than 3 types - 5, I think - of raid configurations) was more than 10 years ago, when my first studio PC was configured that way. It was designed in such a way that it was to speed up things - it's difficult for me to describe it today, because I have not tried to understand it since then.

I found it inconvenient at best, the first time I was faced with replacing a failing drive, since data was spread across a pair of drives and not simply duplicated across them. They were also strictly data drives and not the operating system and program files drive... although it may be that the operating system might have been on a partition of one of the raid drives, because I'm certain I only had two internal drives and two CD drives - one strictly a ROM drive and the other a burner.

I have since taken to creating backups of either all my project data to DVD-R and/or backing up entire internal drives to external drives. These sit on a shelf and every now and then I find the need to pull a project out and revisit it, so I'm glad I don't simply toss it to the wind just because I'm not big time.

I always keep my operating system and program files on their own drive - sometimes on SSD, but at least 2 of my PCs are still XP and use STA drives. I partition that drive into 2 - one for system and the other I leave empty and occasionally will use it as a temp dump when moving things around. But I also try to keep the drive size down under 500GB, so that defrag and repairing system doesn't take forever and a day.

Data drives are always the largest I feel comfortable using - I have a few 1TB drives on hand at the moment, but maybe I'm just skittish about larger drives... don't know. But, I will install 2-3 data drives internally, if the computer allows and keep a decent usb docking bay handy for externals otherwise.

As far as making DVD/CD-R copies of your post optical backups goes...... I doubt that it matters, since it may not be that much longer before you have to search around just to scrounge up a working optical drive, when none of your computers no longer come with them installed. Maybe just simply making sure you have at least 2 copies of everything you want to keep is enough. It helps to keep them in different locations, too.
Sometimes, for some people, that may be an extra hassle not worth the effort.

I'm slowly getting over my fear about SSDs and their flatly stated limited lifespans... as if spinners have some sort of advantage, because there's a good chance you will know by their behavior when one is about to go kaput. That's not always true though and I've proven to myself that it's easy enough to have a drive fail completely and all at once, so it's no safeguard at all against the limited lifespan of solid state.

I hear that not all SSD are created equal - as is blatantly evident, if you've ever used and compared more than one type, brand, size, of usb thumb drives. So far, I've put my trust into Samsung and only a certain style and the 500GB or larger of that style, although I no longer know which it is off the top of my head - Evo, maybe??

I'm sure there are others equal and maybe better, but that's what I'm sticking with for now.






Edited by uptildawn (08/03/18 07:34 PM)
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1588137 - 10/10/18 03:00 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: SMUDGE]
SMUDGE Offline
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Registered: 08/29/17
Posts: 41
Hey guys,
I've abandoned backing up to CD-R completely and I had a question for UtD (I don't know how to tag you in this, but I assume you'll read it eventually).

Earlier you said something to the effect that you didn't consider tracking out individually all my VS track as a "backup". This is exactly what I am now doing to preserve and/or duplicate my projects (sans undos, automixes, etc, but rather all the individual tracks and pairings of tracks as necessary). Did you say that you didn't consider it a real backup because although it's a digital recording, when I go to reassemble the tracks (even if they are tracked out digitally instead of analog) there will always be a minute discrepancy in their timing because of the slight differences in different machines' digital clocks?

So far I've had no problem reassembling my individual tracks in this manner. I am not using a rubidium clock or anything like the big boys have, either.

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#1588144 - 10/10/18 04:20 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: SMUDGE]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8427
Loc: Iowa
Don't think I said that re-tracking your individual tracks as a form of backing up wasn't a real backup because there would be minute discrepancies in timing between tracks (because of different machines' digital clocks) - although this can certainly be true when doing multiple passes, if the machines are not synced properly, especially noticeable over 1-2 minutes, as timing begins to drift too much.

Here's what I said before (in this thread) about backups -
Quote:
Backing up songs for me means backing up the entire project (whether or not to save undos is a matter of preference for me, unless I'm only backing up a completed project, in which case undos matter very little). If all I want to do is convert my VS tracks to wav form for using on the pc, then I don't consider that backing up my songs. Often times I will keep both the backed up projects and their extracted wav files.
End Quote

Re-tracking your tracks is not the same as doing a "backup", in the Roland Song Backup sense - that's mostly what I was getting at. Re-tracking may be a method to create backups, but it is not Roland's sense of a backup.

What you're doing is actually quite common and a method that I used exclusively when I first started transferring my VS Songs to a PC. It's just necessary to have some way to keep the pc and VS in sync over multiple passes - that is, unless your re-tracking pass is less than a couple of minutes. The drift that happens over the course of 3 minutes and more becomes very noticeable and near impossible to slice and dice later in order to line everything up along the timeline. I've done plenty of 5-10 minute "Song" transfers and have dealt with this many times, before finally using MIDI sync to keep everything in line.

I'm glad you're not having any sync problems - and no, I do not use any sort of dedicated external clock like a rubidium clock to sync my devices either.

Does this help?
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1588166 - 10/10/18 08:10 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: SMUDGE]
SMUDGE Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/29/17
Posts: 41
You absolutely helped UtD, thank you. I want a rubidium clock though. I think Roger Nichols invented the first atomic clock for studio use didn't he?

I will be using Serato to re-align some of the longer VS tracks so I might as well report back here to let everyone know how that goes. I think it will be fairly effortless. Serato/Roland DJ-808 in turn will act as Master for any additional sequencing and sampling I want to do with outboard equipment. Serato lets me track out 4 tracks (decks) at a time, but since it is MIDI enabled I should be able to sync perfectly for passes 5 and up. Not that there would be a point to putting them back on the VS, really. Maybe. I'll know when I get there.
My other project with Serato will be re-aligning old Tascam Porta 7 tracks from the 90s that I backed up to MiniDisc years ago. I can't wait!

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#1588578 - 10/15/18 10:01 AM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: SMUDGE]
DapperDan99 Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 23
as cheap as these tiny old hard drives are, its easier to just archive the entire drive and put in a new one for the next project.

Thats why I did the ESATA mod to mine. now the hard drive is outside the vs-2400, so I can swap them in 30 seconds if I need to.

if your paranoid about the drive going bad, you can clone that drive to create backups of the entire drive.

i've gotten 10 drives from china for 10$ apiece.

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#1588584 - 10/15/18 10:14 AM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: SMUDGE]
DapperDan99 Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 23
a partition is a logical space that exists on or as part of a physical device. When the physical device fails (mechanical hard drive or ssd) the partitions are unrecoverable.

a single partition can become corrupted due to power failure or drives glitches when writing to the drive (failing controller board,sticking heads, bad magnet fields,etc)

and having multiple partitions will prevent the othe partitions from becoming corrupted, but eventually if its a drive problem they will all become corrupted.

they main reason for multiple partitons is to have as much of the drive space available for use and to limit the number of files stored in one location to make it faster to load and save the files.

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#1588750 - 10/16/18 02:22 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: SMUDGE]
SMUDGE Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/29/17
Posts: 41
I bought my 2400 new in 2004 and I've only had one HD issue: I had a project with so many edits and was so large that I couldn't optimize it. The VS would lock up each time I tried and I had to shut it down and restart. It's the only issue I've had with it in all this time. Eventually I will install an SD or external SATA/eSATA, but not yet.
The thing with changing the drives though, is even if I'm able to migrate VS files from their HD over to my computer wouldn't they still be in Roland's native format ie not in WAV format? How would I convert those tracks to something I could work with in the environment of my computer?

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#1588764 - 10/16/18 02:54 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: SMUDGE]
uptildawn Offline
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8427
Loc: Iowa
And there's the rub - migrating VS tracks to a pc/mac...

The 2400cd doesn't have external scsi, so VirDIS or any other external scsi-based hard drive is out of the picture. It looks like you also do not have USB - is that right? Then you can't export wav files to a pc via USB.

Your only solutions then lie in the ability of the 2400 to consistently produce project backups and/or export wav files (if that's possible - I know it can import wav files).

Or to attempt to mod your machine to accept an internal solid state drive replacement that you can easily remove for temporary migration of VS projects to a pc, where you might be able to make use of the VSWE (VS Wave Export) utility (if you can find a good download link).

You might also be able to migrate your project tracks to a pc by way of CD backups, where again you would make use of VSWE, along with the included CD2Roland ripper.

Both of these utilities are pc only (or via a mac with a windows partition) and both are difficult to run down. There may be a good link here in the forums and one of the forum members was providing downloads of VSWE ver. 2.5 for awhile - you might find references to that with a search or two, or three, for something like VSWE, or wave export, or something to that affect. Search the 2480 and 1680 forums in particular (maybe the 880 as well).
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1588785 - 10/16/18 05:21 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: SMUDGE]
SMUDGE Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/29/17
Posts: 41
Again, thank you UtD. It's nice you actually give a damn about these machines.
I will look up the options you mentioned, however..
I own a Presonus V-Fire which I think I read isn't supposed to work in Max OSX High Sierra (or Snow Leopard, which I use also). However, when I have it hooked up to my VS I still register a signal in the Snow Leopard Mac's audio In VU meter. I hear nothing though, and I can't get Final Cut Soundtrack Pro or Audacity to receive the signal. It's very weird.

I wonder if I installed my old Cubase LE demo that came with an Axiom keyboard I bought if High Sierra or Snow Leopard would run it, and if Cubase would recognize the V-Fire (if Cubase would let me still register it, etc.. if if if).

It sucks having a useless V-Fire.

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#1588798 - 10/16/18 06:30 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: SMUDGE]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8427
Loc: Iowa
Yeah - I never used a v-fire but I think I saved myself some grief, too. \:\)

I hope you get something worked out.
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uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1588823 - 10/16/18 10:41 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: SMUDGE]
SMUDGE Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/29/17
Posts: 41
I think it might work in Leopard. I had already upgraded to Snow Leopard on that computer by the time I got a V-Fire. I might set aside a HD and re-install it. I hate owning anything as useful as that and not integrating it into my studio, because I don't see myself as a gear collector by any stretch of the imagination (although getting a Variax and Pod XT cut way down on my guitar juggling).
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#1588925 - 10/17/18 04:59 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: SMUDGE]
DapperDan99 Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 23
there is a tool on this board that converts roland file format to .wav files.

here's a link to download it... bears ripper tool

it what i use...

you can find pretty cheap laptops from mid 2000s that run windows xp for 25-35$, and use them as dedicated tool for file conversions. look at dell d510 for instance, it has firewire, and usb to use a removable drive with it. That was a 2004-2005 circa machine. you can step up to dell e1220 for 80$ to 100$, but the d510 will work just fine. ebay is a good source of these lowly but good workhorses.


Edited by DapperDan99 (10/17/18 05:03 PM)

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#1588966 - 10/17/18 09:13 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: DapperDan99]
SMUDGE Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/29/17
Posts: 41
Thank you very much. I will check this out.
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#1591395 - 11/05/18 01:56 PM Re: VS backup to ISO/DMG [Re: SMUDGE]
SMUDGE Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/29/17
Posts: 41
I figure it might be easier to add this to this thread rather than start a slightly non-VS thread:

I've been experimenting with slaving a MV-8800 to a Roland DJ-808/Serato DJ Pro. The 808 has only MIDI out, so I am unable to complete a reciprocal sync from the MV. So far I have not detected drift when recording audio from the 808's soundcard to the MV when slaved, but I do hear noticeable jitter when I play back the MV's sampled audio. There is not jitter when the MV is set to remote rather than slave. The 808 is obviously sending MMC start/stop to the MV and MTC or MIDI Clock (I'm guessing MTC), but I can find no documentation on what data the 808 is sending through its single MIDI out port.

I plan to re-align old cassette 4-track songs while slaving my VS-2400 to the DJ-808. I haven't attempted it yet, but I am not looking forward to jitter, should there be any. While it can record a decent length of audio in one go, the MV's sampler is based on a Roland JP-8000 (I think) so even given my limited knowledge of the differences between the ins and outs of samplers versus DAWs, I'd like to assume the jitter I hear on the MV may not be present when I record to the VS. All that said, I still won't be able to properly complete the sync, running the VS's MIDI out back into the non-existent MIDI in of the DJ-808, and this of course implies the possibility of drift.

There are several other audio programs that can stretch and adjust those old 4-track tracks, but the flexibility of being able to perform and loop portions of each track in Serato with a DJ controller (once they are all properly grid-mapped and BPM'd) is irreplaceable as far as my needs are concerned.

Any input on the jitter issue, sampler versus DAW, the right terminology for what I have heard as a MIDI "handshake", et al is appreciated as always.

SMUDGE


Edited by SMUDGE (11/05/18 01:59 PM)

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