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#1569815 - 04/24/18 08:47 PM Wrapping my mind around VirDis
RD Offline
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Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1249
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
Hello Planeteers! I recently installed VirDis on my PC for use with my 1680.

I watched JMiker's YouTube piece on his 2480/PC and it's really informative.

Couple questions:

1. first, can I just record straight away to the PC virtual drive like I do with my 1680? On the YouTube he had previously laid a few tracks but I'll be working to the drive in real time if possible, and

2. Cant find a tutorial on this: Can I export and also IMPORT wav files using the export tool in reverse? I'm needing to send wav files, get parts from musicians, and then line them up in the 1680 for mixing.

Your thoughts will be very much appreciated!

RD


Edited by RD (04/24/18 09:46 PM)
Edit Reason: Clarity
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#1569817 - 04/24/18 10:33 PM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: RD]
uptildawn Online   content
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 7904
Loc: Iowa
Sorry RD - no can export/import wav files - it's a 1680 limitation, not VirDis......... yes, it's a sad state for us. \:\(

You can extract .wav files from your 1680 VirDis .hdd files (or whatever Bill is calling the extension in your version). Drag the .hdd into VSWE (VS Wave Export), or drag the VR6 file from a CD rip (with CD2Roland found in VSWE's Extras menu) and follow the instructions for selecting tracks, assigning a destination folder, etc.

The only real way to bring files/tracks back into the 1680 is by re-recording them from your PC's soundcard output.

And yes - you can/should be able to record directly to the VirDis virtual drive (the .hdd file). I haven't done this in a long, long time, but I don't recall seeing any particular hangups....... Sometimes it's probably safer to record to the internal drive and then use Song Copy Playable to make a copy of it in VirDis - It only takes a short while to do so - relative to making a backup CD - and this way you have automatically created a safety copy for yourself.
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uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1569818 - 04/24/18 10:55 PM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: uptildawn]
RD Offline
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Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1249
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
Thanks Uptildawn! I saw someplace that I may be able to import through the digi or analog ins...if so, I could maybe (?) send an MP3 or wav to our friend with lead-in tempo etc., have him record his single or stereo track using my tracks as guides, send it via email back to me and THEN take just his track(s) back into the 1680 into the digital ins?

Guess what I'm trying to do is get some work around to allow me to place freshly recorded hi res tracks back into the 1680. I don't care how long it takes to line up the audio...

Do you think that would work?


Edited by RD (04/24/18 11:26 PM)
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#1569822 - 04/25/18 12:33 AM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: RD]
uptildawn Online   content
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 7904
Loc: Iowa
Make sure that the track you send him is aligned to zero on your timeline - doesn't matter where it actually starts, just make sure to dub it from zero.

Make sure he does the same thing at his end.

You realize that your import through the digi (or analog) will be a re-record and not an actual import....... right?

You may also find it necessary to import the reference track you sent him - on the off chance that the new track doesn't time out exactly, beat for beat, with the original one on your VS. Unfortunately, without a solid sync reference track, it's possible for different recorders to playback and record at different speeds. When your buddy imports your reference, it's possible that the recorder may not play it at exactly the same speed - which means that his new track may be out of sync with your original - that is, if I'm thinking straight........

Wonder if it would help if you were to both use midi sync and a tempo map....... there's a way to record a sync track in the 1680, isn't there?...... I don't remember for sure and I'm way too tired right now to check - you might want to.

Maybe you could do an experiment or two with your own gear first, if you've got another recorder, or Reaper on a PC or something.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1569826 - 04/25/18 06:19 AM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: uptildawn]
RD Offline
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Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1249
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
Thanks! No, I didn't realize importing into the digital was a re-record but that makes total sense now that you mention it...it would be a digital copy I guess so probably not too lossy?

I need to come up with a way to make this work...I had initially planned to get some software like Presonus StudioPro or something for collecting all the tracks..

but, I know the VS architecture so would love to mix in there as I've done prior.

Hmmmm...thanks so much for your analysis and assistance!

I'll check re sync track or tempo mapping. Your idea about maybe needing to re-record the reference tracks is great...I will need to incorporate this into how we build the song...

RD



Edited by RD (04/25/18 06:25 AM)
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#1569831 - 04/25/18 07:59 AM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: RD]
uptildawn Online   content
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 7904
Loc: Iowa
Basically, since all your track import will have to be the long way - re-recording, then you need to have a way to keep everything in sync during the recording, or timing drifts noticeably after as little as 30 seconds, but certainly after 1.5 minutes. It's a pain to manually re-sync tracks every 30-60 seconds - believe me - I know. \:\(

I did a lot of track exporting from the 1680 to a pc daw some years ago, where I would use the direct out path of the 1680 to pass up to 8 tracks at once. The direct outs pass just the dry tracks - no processing, eq or otherwise, unless it was purposely printed into the track sound (ie. recording just the wet stereo reverb to a pair of channels before hand in order to capture the sound of the VS's effects on background vocals, or something like that - a pain in my book).

But at any rate, I could usually record 8 dry channels (1-8) at once out the VS rca jacks and into the 8 analog channels of the pc interface (RME Multiface) and then do a second pass of the remaining VS channels (9-16) to at least capture the entire 16 playback tracks in just 2 passes. I sync'd the pc daw to the 1680 via MTC, letting the 1680 play master (as it's inclined to want to do). That kept the 16 tracks in sync okay going into the pc.

But I don't think I ever bothered to try to import many pc-processed tracks back into the 1680... at least I don't recall doing so for more than a track or two. I'm sure I would have had to use MTC sync going back in as well.

The most difficult recordings to sync were always the ones for which I hadn't previously set up a tempo/click and played to it while recording. Lots of my recordings were done without using the internal metronome, so it forced me to learn how to create a tempo map to the recordings.

I tried recording the metronome click to the pc as a audible guide and maybe that worked, if I also used MTC to sync while recording it - at least I think I remember it working. Point being that even a click guide would have to be recorded with midi sync enabled to have any hope of avoiding drift.

I just don't recall what issue I encountered when trying to import tracks back to the 1680....

The simplest solution by far was to create and send backup CDs through the mail, when working with a friend long distance (providing they also worked on a VS recorder and could burn backups). I never quite got a chance to test out the "cloud" alternative to snail mail to my satisfaction, before sort of abandoning my personal recording projects. They're still waiting patiently for me to get back to them..........................\
Doesn't help you much right now, I know.

You could always send your converted reference tracks in .wav form over the web/cloud for the other musicians - VirDis and VSWE (and CD2Roland for that matter) would work really well for that part. You could include a sync track, if you can figure out how to create a reliable one.

Going back to the 1680 for import is the real sticking point though. Possibly playing the new tracks from your pc daw into the 1680's digital or analog inputs, while syncing to the 1680's MTC for recording them will work fine. Just make sure to have the 1680 songs tracked to the internal tempo map/metronome and be sure to place the actual starting of the tracks 2-3 measures in to allow the midi signals to properly sync the two machines. Also, have your recording partner render the .wav files for you always referenced to zero timeline, regardless of how far into the song the audio begins. Otherwise you will find yourself having to reposition the tracks manually inside the 1680 afterwards - not an impossible task for sure (I did that often), but can be avoided.



Edited by uptildawn (04/25/18 08:02 AM)
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1569839 - 04/25/18 09:23 AM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: uptildawn]
RD Offline
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Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1249
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
Well thanks once again!! I'm going to try some experiments on this end. I'm not opposed to re-recording into the VS and I will be working with the metronome on the tracks (anticipating possible issues with syncing, and remembering the very useful waveform for lining things up)

I will be asking these folks (two friends from England) how they work and maybe that will assist me in determining the best route...

I so desperately want to avoid pro tools or whatever...

I'll report back what I hear, and the results of my upcoming experiments! Your thoughts really help lift the veil :-)

Awesome place, this Planet! Thanks once again!!


Edited by RD (04/25/18 09:27 AM)
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#1569850 - 04/25/18 02:04 PM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: RD]
Steve Phillips Offline
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Registered: 11/04/99
Posts: 353
Loc: Smiths Falls, Ontario, Canada
Another option is to use Reaper (or other software DAW) and sync the VS to it via MIDI. You can record and play back tracks in both systems simultaneously. MIDI keeps them in sync and lets you start/stop both together. That way you don't need to transfer anything back and forth between machines.

I'm exchanging tracks with a drummer I work with using my 2480, Reaper and a Presonus V-Fire. I'm not doing the MIDI sync thing at the moment but I have in the past and will again soon.

As far as using the S/P-DIF it's better than using analog for transfers as it keeps things in the digital domain. No A/D-D/A conversions. You just have to use the same sample rates on both sides. Of course you can only transfer two tracks at a time.

I am also a VirDIS user. I record and playback directly to VirDIS.


Edited by Steve Phillips (04/25/18 02:05 PM)
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#1569881 - 04/25/18 06:27 PM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: Steve Phillips]
RD Offline
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Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1249
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
Thanks Steve. I'm off to research Reaper...

Do I understand you to say that you use the DAW Reaper software as a communication tool, but do your mixes in the VS?

If so, that's my Huckelberry!
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#1569909 - 04/26/18 08:29 AM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: RD]
Steve Phillips Offline
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Registered: 11/04/99
Posts: 353
Loc: Smiths Falls, Ontario, Canada
Historically I used Reaper as a host for Steven Slate drums. I would create MIDI drum tracks and play them in Reaper while recording them to the Roland.

With things synced you can wait and record the drums when you are ready because you can play the Roland and Reaper together in sync to record other tracks.

Right now I am working with a drummer who is using Reaper to record his electronic drum kit (Alesis Strike Pro). Actually we just set him up so that his kit is triggering sounds in Addictive Drums 2 hosted in Reaper.

We are just getting things figured out and set up with respect to how we will collaborate.

The current plan is for me to send him a scratch guitar track as a WAV. He will pull that into a Reaper project, add drums then send back the Reaper project. I can load that and either play it in Reaper while recording to the Roland or play the Roland and Reaper in sync and record other tracks to either.

To create my scratch guitar track(s) I create a scratch drum track with Steven Slate Drums in Reaper.

Reaper is just one of many DAWs you can use but it is very capable, inexpensive and has TONS of community support including many how-to videos.



Edited by Steve Phillips (04/26/18 08:32 AM)
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#1569957 - 04/26/18 04:29 PM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: Steve Phillips]
RD Offline
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Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1249
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
Thanks for that! I'm off to buy Reaper and get my text savvy nephew to figure out the install particulars.

I'll post back as we get going! I'm on a bit of a timeline due to a session in June and needing to be conversant with wav files before and after...

Thanks both for your generosity in answers!

Rick
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#1569958 - 04/26/18 04:38 PM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: RD]
uptildawn Online   content
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 7904
Loc: Iowa
Reaper should be an easy install..... small footprint too.
Focus mostly on the parts of the program that will get you from point A to B in the immediate to get up to snuff. Worry about the details slowly and as you go. It won't be painful.
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uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1569960 - 04/26/18 05:36 PM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: uptildawn]
RD Offline
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Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1249
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
Thanks! My nephew spec'd it a bit and thinks the same...life is good. I'll take it slow... This weekend shall not pass without Reaper visiting my computer.

Edited by RD (04/26/18 05:36 PM)
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#1570052 - 04/28/18 05:45 PM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: RD]
VirDISDeveloper Offline
VirDIS® author
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Registered: 12/28/05
Posts: 27
Loc: Galveston, Texas, USA
1. Customers have told me that you CAN record directly to VirDIS and I know of NO technical reason why you could not. Not having a mic prevents me from confirming this absolutely - maybe some other more proficient Roland users can chime in?
2. There is a VirDIS_QuickStart PDF in the distribution that should help somewhat, although not a tutorial as such.

With regard to WAVs VirDIS includes the VS Wave Export utility which supports VirDIS HDD files. Dropping a valid HDD file into VSWE's open window will parse its folder structure, show songs/projects and display all tracks in a matrix on the right side. Selecting any or all tracks in this matrix will allow them to be exported to WAV files.

Our new upgrade will allow embedding WAV files into an ISO image (I use ImgBurn to do this - very simple) and loading it up in VirDIS for importation back into the Roland.

HTH,
Bill Casey
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#1570054 - 04/28/18 06:14 PM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: VirDISDeveloper]
uptildawn Online   content
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 7904
Loc: Iowa
 Originally Posted By: VirDISDeveloper
... Not having a mic prevents me from confirming this absolutely... HTH, Bill Casey


I use an old boom box radio to play in tracks for testing - I mean, how many of us could tolerate hearing overdubs of our own voices singing Somewhere Over The Rainbow in 4-part harmony x4 to test 16 track recording scenarios?

Or get those guitar chops in shape Bill, with 16 layered power chords to Smoke On The Water!
Or bang out a chorus of In-A-Gada-Da-Vida Baby on the drums with 16 mics strategically placed. ........ Oops! Sorry - with 16 trigger pads strategically placed... \:\)








Edited by uptildawn (04/28/18 06:18 PM)
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uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1570082 - 04/29/18 03:36 PM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: uptildawn]
RD Offline
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Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1249
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
I have both mics AND an old boom box lol!

So, Bill, will the new version of VirDis be something that we can retrieve the update via internet, or will it require a separate installation?

For either, I have my trusty nephew Been to assist in all things computer.

Rick
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#1570223 - 05/01/18 08:36 AM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: RD]
Steve Phillips Offline
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Registered: 11/04/99
Posts: 353
Loc: Smiths Falls, Ontario, Canada
There is absolutely no issue whatsoever recording directly to VirDIS. I have been doing it for years.

It works flawlessly.

When recording rehearsals I had 16-20 tracks recording simultaneously. I used a VSR-880 to expand my inputs beyond 16 on the 2480.

I create a partition file for each project I work on. With huge disk space on PCs you can create as many VirDIS files as you want/need.
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#1570246 - 05/01/18 11:24 AM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: Steve Phillips]
RD Offline
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Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1249
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
Thanks Steve...I'll try that!!
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#1570532 - 05/03/18 09:10 PM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: RD]
RD Offline
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Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1249
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
I've got the VS and the VirDis set up and I'm trying my first lisping attempt to song copy over to the virtual file.

I have visible on the 1680 the IDE drive, and scsi12 removeable UnFormatted 10.4g

My transport in the VS won't allow me to select the new drive in song copy playable (select drive)

I'm missing something. Any guesses? I'm stumped.


Edited by RD (05/03/18 09:10 PM)
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#1570537 - 05/03/18 09:31 PM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: RD]
RD Offline
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Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1249
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
Oh, now I got the VS to Archive song, so maybe I'm on the right track now :-)

It appears it sent the song over to the VirDis. Next, I'll see if I can export a wav.


Edited by RD (05/03/18 09:40 PM)
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#1570542 - 05/03/18 10:42 PM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: RD]
uptildawn Online   content
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 7904
Loc: Iowa
Archive is not what you use..... it's Song Copy Playable.

Did you format the VirDis HHD virtual hard drive you created in VirDis? You said you could see scsi 12 (HUH????? 12????) removable unformatted 10.4G - Is that the VirDis drive, or do you have an external hard drive hooked up to your VS between the machine and VirDis on the PC?

If not, then that must be the VirDis virtual drive - but you can't use a scsi ID of 12 - not possible.

Maybe it's scsi 2?
Also, not sure why you're creating a virtual hd of 10 gigs..... certainly no need for that with a 1680 as your VS. Personally and especially for a test run, I would only make a virtual drive of 100-500MB - gives you plenty of space to test and tinker around.

Even after you're certain of what you're doing, a vhd (what Bill used to call his default virtual hard drive folder) isn't really that useful if it's larger than - 1- the largest partition size you can make on the 1680, or 2- the largest hard drive size the 1680 will support (16+GB), or 3- the largest size you could store on a dvd-r (4.3GB for storage using the pc's cd/dvd drive).

The point being that a single vhd (VirDis hard drive) that is really large either becomes a lot of wasted space, or becomes difficult to manage/keep track of all the tons of 1680 Song files you might store to it - Imagine that you will need to write down (or otherwise log) all the Song files you store in this massive 10GB virtual hard drive - whew! lots of work to sift through.

I'm pretty certain also - and this is maybe the biggest waste of the 10GB drive size - the 1680 will only use the first 16+GB of it, not being able to recognize anything beyond that.

Anyway some things to consider, even if I have completely misunderstood what you said. Sorry if I've taken you way off course.



Edited by uptildawn (05/03/18 10:45 PM)
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uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1570643 - 05/05/18 09:53 AM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: uptildawn]
RD Offline
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Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1249
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
Back in the studio tonight...reviewing all the great info..thanks.

I'm continually impressed with just how much about computers, midi, signal paths etc I don't know lol!

For example, yes, SCSI2 mistakenly called 12 by me (duh)

I'll tackle the partition formatting, and probably create a smaller partition per your counsel above.

I assume (and will soon find out) that the formatting tool is in the 1680's commands similar to any on onboard HD function...

RD


Edited by RD (05/05/18 09:55 AM)
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#1570657 - 05/05/18 11:34 AM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: RD]
uptildawn Online   content
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 7904
Loc: Iowa
the vHD size is determined at VirDIS, when you create the container/folder which the VS will use as a virtual external hard drive.

The formatting of the vHD does need to be carried out by the VS (VirDIS will tell you this when you first create and enable the vHD). The formatting and partition size is restricted by the VS' limitations - up to 8 x 2GB partitions (slightly larger, actually) can be created at the most.

That means that if you create a 10GB vhd, the VS will create roughly 5 partitions when formatted - 4 x 2.1GB and 1 x 0.6GB partitions. If you create a vhd larger than, say, 17GB, you are wasting overall hard drive space on your pc, because not only will the VS ignore anything over its own size limitations, but you pc will also not be able to access that physical hard drive space.

If you make a vhd no larger than 2.2GB as a general rule, you can be assured of having enough vhd space to record to and/or copy to the size of a VS partition. In my mind, this is a convenient size to work with.

I also think that creating a 1GB vhd for an unknown total file size - say when you want to record some free flow ideas and maybe make a multi-track song out of the best parts, not having any idea of how much space may be required before the song file is complete, is a healthy choice. That is giving plenty of space for creating and editing/mixing not only 16 main tracks, but possibly many virtual layers of alternate takes over the space of a 5-10 minute song file (5MB per minute average x 16 tracks x 7 minutes = 560MB. That leaves 400+ MB for additional virtual tracks, as well as track bouncing and punch-ins.).

To estimate an average 3-5 minute 16 track song file, use 5MB as the average size per minute, multiply times the number of minutes and multiply that times the number of playback tracks. Allow plenty of extra size for overdubs, alternate takes, etc. Maybe double the size of 16 playable tracks.

If you typically use far less than this, estimate accordingly.

I never did like creating a vhd on a whim, because I knew that eventually I would want to back up the vhd to an alternate media - DVD-R, flash drive, external hd, or whatever. Making one of a predetermined size based on usage expectations saves a lot of wasted space.





Edited by uptildawn (05/05/18 11:35 AM)
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1570825 - 05/07/18 09:26 PM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: uptildawn]
RD Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1249
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
Well I managed to get the VS to see and format (initialize) my VirDis 10 gig file and moved a test song off the VS to the VirDis file. Yay!

I tried without success to make a smaller file in the PC, but I'll keep at it...however the 10g file now has 4 partitions (or 5 if I count 0-is that what you meant about a smaller file?) ..there is much in standard computer info that I'm getting familiar with...

Thanks for all the help this far!!

RD


Edited by RD (05/07/18 09:35 PM)
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#1570827 - 05/07/18 11:02 PM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: RD]
uptildawn Online   content
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 7904
Loc: Iowa
Zero counts as the first partition in the computer world - same with the VS - check and see what your internal hd says - first partition is zero. So you have 5 total.

Let me try to clarify a couple terms I try to use consistently (it's a little different than Roland, but is normal in pc-land).

1- when speaking of hard drives, a drive to me is the entire thing. In the case of a physical hard drive, it's the whole unit. In the case of a VirDIS vHD, it's the whole total size - 10GB in your case.

2- When I speak of the individual sections created when formatting an hd, I call these partitions and never call them drives (as Roland so often does). So, your 10GB vHD has been divided into 5 partitions, when you initialized it - I assume you used the 2GB partition size - the largest allowed by the 1680.

Because the VS partitions into sizes slightly larger than 2GB - 2.1GB is what I always see - then your 5th partition is somewhat smaller than 2GB. You access the different partitions of your vHD through the 1680's drive select screen, so don't forget that you have those other partitions, as the first one begins to fill up.

3- I think for the sake of creating less confusion, the term "file" should be reserved for individual 1680 projects, or to simply use the term "SONG" as Roland does with this model (they changed the terminology with the 2480).

4- Although "Tracks" in Roland 1680 speak could be considered files, I tend to call them tracks until they have been extracted/converted/exported into the pc-based .wav file format.

5- And just to be complete, I tend to distinguish between "tracks" and "channels" - channels being the mixer sections with faders and eq, etc. Tracks are recorded into channels (1-16).

and Virtual tracks in my mind are those recordings placed onto different virtual "layers" - which are the sub layers of each channel.

Anyway, sorry to be anal - it's just easier to understand when conventions are used. These are pretty standard outside of Roland-world.

And sorry to run off at the fingers like I do.......
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1570836 - 05/08/18 06:07 AM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: uptildawn]
RD Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1249
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
Ha! Not "anal" at all...I'm lopsided over here with a pretty solid working sense of the Roland platform but nothing in my experience gives me anything PC...so once again thank you for your thoughts.

I shall attempt to adopt your definitions above in the ongoing conversation.

Next adventure is going to be trying to export my test song as a wav to something else...I'm hunting down and learning everything with your help, albeit slowly lol!

I think I'll change my RD handle to Perpetual Newbie ;-)
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#1570905 - 05/08/18 07:18 PM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: RD]
RD Offline
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Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1249
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
So, once I export a WAV file (having first ejected the emulation) can I send the WAV file via email without first loading it into Reaper or other program? I would assume that I would use my Reaper program to line up an incoming WAV file and either play it in sync with my 1680, or record it digitally back to the 1689.

Edited by RD (05/08/18 07:20 PM)
_________________________
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#1570913 - 05/08/18 10:05 PM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: RD]
uptildawn Online   content
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 7904
Loc: Iowa
Let's see -
1- Yeah, I imagine you have to eject the emulation before you can open VSWE and drag the vhd (.HDD file) into it to extract wav files from the VS SONG. I've never tried using VSWE on a vHD that was still loaded in VirDIS. Probably a good idea to do so.

2- Once you've exported/extracted a wav file using VSWE, then you can send it in whatever manner is convenient (email, if it's small enough, or via cloud is good, too). You don't have to load it into reaper first... it's already in a form other programs can use. Reaper can come in handy to "render" (sort of like export) wav files from any tracks loaded into the program, but there's no need if you used VSWE to do the dirty work.

3- I haven't tried it before with Reaper, but yeah - essentially, you can use Reaper to play an incoming wav file into the VS (record it back to the VS), or just play it in sync with the VS..... There's options. It depends on how you have things connected and how you need to reach your goal.

If your goal is to use Reaper for extra tracks, alongside the VS - mixing down to some other recorder, or bouncing the mix into either Reaper or VS open channels - then you definitely want to have everything sync'd with MIDI while doing so.

If your goal is to simply play an imported wav file into your existing VS SONG project to add new tracks, then you COULD just play the wav file(s) freeform with any media player and realign them after the recording, but it's still probably best to play them in Reaper, so you can use MIDI sync to keep everything aligned from the start.

There's so many possibilities you might find yourself wanting to try out....... give it some time and experiment.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1570926 - 05/09/18 06:18 AM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: uptildawn]
RD Offline
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Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1249
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
Once again, thank you Sir! It's helpful to have somebody to help direct my learning curve!

Next studio session, emailing a WAV file I made as an experiment. Then, I'll be off to the races. All this is necessary for me because we have a couple musical co-conspirators from another country and the time is growing short for the session...

:-)
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#1570937 - 05/09/18 09:29 AM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: RD]
uptildawn Online   content
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 7904
Loc: Iowa
Good luck with the testing. Good thing that distance is not a deterrent. \:\)
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1571008 - 05/09/18 08:53 PM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: uptildawn]
RD Offline
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Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1249
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
Well I'm stuck... probably simple but, where is the song file?

I load SCSI2 and load my test song so it's there.

dsk2HDD is the Virtual disc 10g file...partition O has my song.

But when I close the VirDis I can't find the file, which I want to try to export via the wav utility.

I've watched the YouTube John Miker piece and when I go to open the wav utility, his opens a box, and mine errors


When I try to open the wav utility (with VirDis ejected but with the box open that says "Select Virtual Device Types" , with neither box checked, I go to file-"run VS wav export utility" and I get "Component MSCOMCTL.OCX or one of it's dependencies not correctly registered: a file is missing or invalid"

Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?

I can find the file I think but can't open it because the PC doesn't know what to do with the type...and I can't seem to get the wav utility to open.





Edited by RD (05/09/18 09:35 PM)
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#1571020 - 05/09/18 11:01 PM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: RD]
uptildawn Online   content
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 7904
Loc: Iowa
don't try to muck with your VS tracks, files and folders using windows...... windows doesn't know how to deal with them (except the odd text file).

The wav utility is VSWE, correct? I just want to use the conventions, to avoid confusion.

the missing component MSCOMCTL.OCX comes up for some people.... not sure why. It's a windows file that somehow gets unregistered, or some such thing. It has to be found and re-registered. I had to do it only one time and have totally spaced out the process....... but I think if you use that file name in a forum search you will find at least one post or more with instructions on how to resolve the issue.

Seems to me that in my case the file was actually still on my computer, but needed to be re-registered in the windows registry.
It's not as difficult as it may seem, if you follow the instructions given and don't do other stuff to try and be clever. \:\)

You may find that it isn't on your pc and then need to locate a copy - they say the best way is to find it on another computer, if you have one - copying that file either to a flash drive, or over a network, if on one. But you might also be brave and locate a copy online - but they do warn to be careful not to download a virus instead... it's so fun, I know!

If you don't know where you've located your dsk2HDD vHD, then you should pay closer attention to where it is when you create it. I'm guessing it's located in the default location Mr. Casey sets up with the install of VirDIS. That's probably in the VirDIS program folder and probably on your C drive.

If you installed VirDIS to a different location, try searching there. Use the windows search function and just type in the dsk2hdd name to search the entire computer, if need be. Once you find the main folder that you own 10GB file is in, right-click on that main vHD folder and send a shortcut to your desktop for future easy access.

Pay special attention to where you set up your main .wav export folder for VSWE also. AND - VERY IMPORTANT FOR FUTURE USE - Always, always, always make a new destination folder for exporting wav files from each and every SONG. VSWE doesn't use distinctly different names for tracks from different SONGS, so it can easily overwrite exported wav files from one song with those of a previous one unless each song export is done to its own folder.

Hope this is helping.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1571032 - 05/10/18 07:19 AM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: uptildawn]
RD Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1249
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
That does help, thanks! I see the VirDis on my C drive and assume that's where it defaulted to on he install.

I see my folder also, but can't open it so I'll get busy tonight looking for that missing or unregistered file...thanks very much for the help!!

And,as I start to understand that k you as well for the additional tips like making a new folder for VirDis for each song...

:-)

(UPDATE) FOUND INSTRUCTIONS AT THE MICROSOFT SITE BY GOOGLING-I THINK I FOUND MY BIG GIRL PANTS...WILL TRY TONIGHT TO FIX)


Edited by RD (05/10/18 08:04 AM)
_________________________
Well, that's about all that I know...

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#1571178 - 05/11/18 08:07 PM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: RD]
RD Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1249
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
Well, still stuck I'm afraid. On my search I find three MSCOM...files on the computer in doing a search in the C drive.

One lists it at C:\VirDis Installer\VS Wave Export,

The next says C:\XFER\VIRDIS Installer\Wave Export

And

The third says C:\XFER\VIRDIS Installer\XP\32-bit

Hmmmmmm.....

So, the instructions online say:

Look for MSCOMNCTL.OCX in the following: C:\Windows\SysWOW64 directory

Right click on Command Prompt and select Run As Administrator

Type the following

CD C:\Windows\SysWOW64 directory

Press Enter

Next Type

Regsvr32 MSCOMCTL.OCX

Press Enter

You should get a message "DllRegisterServer in mscomctl.ocx succeeded"

Proceed with the installation

I tried to open the command prompt (black page) and I carefully typed all that above in, including the correct slash etc ;-)

No luck.

I'm looking right now at the search window with he three instances of the file. Nothing will right click and bring up any run as commands...

Anything obvious I'm doing wrong?
_________________________
Well, that's about all that I know...

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#1571181 - 05/11/18 09:07 PM Re: Wrapping my mind around VirDis [Re: RD]
uptildawn Online   content
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 7904
Loc: Iowa
the online instructions have two distinctly different points which may be errors:

1- my file and part of your instructions, as well as your error message call the file - MSCOMCTL.OCX - not MSCOMNCTL.OCX as the "look for" instruction you wrote above. The added "N" in the middle may have been a typo.

2- the instructions reference searching the SysWOW64 directory - I have no clue what that is and I'm not on a 64bit computer (are you?)..... instead, my file is found in the Windows\System32 folder - I suspect that yours should as well, since I'm not at all sure that VSWE works on a 64bit operating system.

Not only that, but further down your instructions read - Regsvr32 MSCOMCTL.OCX - which is clearly a reference to the 32bit, not 64bit - at least from my limited perspective.

__________

I think that you should be sure that the instructions are for the operating system you are on, especially in regards to the 32bit vs 64bit system.

Your search should be finding the MSCOMCTL.OCX file, probably NOT some other similar file. The file you want to download, copy, register should be a file of that name and not something related. I'm also fairly certain that it should reside in your Windows\System32 folder as mine does.

Do your search in just the main WINDOWS folder - not the whole C drive, or the whole computer... or even do the search in the Windows\System32 folder to discover whether or not it is there, but just having lost its registry association (or whatever that's called).

Once you know for sure whether it's on your computer or not, then decide if you need to download a copy (being cautious to avoid a virus) and once found/downloaded, copy it to the System32 folder and do the registry hack..... I seriously have reservations about that instruction that mentions "Type the following - CD C:\Windows\SysWOW64 directory"

That location doesn't exist on my Windows 7 32bit system and I'm sure it didn't on my XP machines either.

Maybe look a little deeper for the answer to that puzzle.








Edited by uptildawn (05/11/18 09:08 PM)
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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