#1570097 - 04/29/18 10:47 PM
Syncing VS 1680 to Reaper
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RD
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Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1394
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
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I've downloaded Reaper on the same computer I have VirDis installed on...and now I'd like to get Reaper and the VS syncd up.
Question: can I sync through the already connected scsi, or do I need something else to get to that point?
I did a search but it didn't come up...maybe my fault there...
Thanks in advance!
RD
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Using my original VS 1680 27 years now and counting!
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#1570103 - 04/30/18 12:21 AM
Re: Syncing VS 1680 to Reaper
[Re: RD]
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uptildawn
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9067
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Don't sync through scsi. You need to sync via MIDI (MTC). Used to be that most people with a decent soundcard had midi connectors, or at least if they used an external interface it would have midi I/O jacks. Most people today are left to look for a USB to MIDI (or MIDI to USB - however it's properly described - I never remember) cable.
Cost does not seem to indicate a successful connection and sync between a VS recorder and a PC - low cost sometimes works, sometimes not. You may know by now just how finicky the VS can be.....
I don't recall if there's any links on the Planet here that might help, but you could try searching the VS forums for midi cable, or usb to midi, or some such thing. Or maybe just go search on Amazon or Ebay for some likely candidates - don't bother with fancy and expensive, if you don't have to.
You may need to have a pair of cables (well, in the USB world, it's probably a Y-cable with two midi connectors on one end), depending on what you want to accomplish, communication-wise.
The Midi path will ONLY send and receive command messages (fader control, transport functions, etc.)..... In case you weren't already aware - there's no audio path across midi. It's not a substitute for the need to have either analog, or digital, or both connections between the VS and PC in order to pass/monitor/record audio from one machine to the other. If you want to have audio from both PC and VS in your monitors, you will need to rig up the necessary cables and possibly use an external mixer to your monitors - depends on how you're set up - you might be able to monitor from your VS, while sending audio from your PC back into the 1680, monitoring both at the same time with the VS' mixer... or vice versa, depending on the sophistication of your computer's soundcard and interface.
You won't need midi, unless you plan to work in both environments simultaneously - ie. play tracks in the 1680 and Reaper at the same time.
Hope this helps. My knowledge of what else to do with midi is rather limited, because I rarely find a need for it.
Edited by uptildawn (04/30/18 12:26 AM)
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uptildawn
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#1570107 - 04/30/18 02:37 AM
Re: Syncing VS 1680 to Reaper
[Re: uptildawn]
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RD
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Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1394
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
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That clears up a few things...thanks...I guess I'm not sure what will emerge. I need to send and receive wav files and ideally what I would love to do is move the files back into the 1680 for mixing...but it would seem the Reaper software and of course the VirDis all can offer different variables.
I plan to receive wav files and, I think anyway, record them into the digital path into the VS 1680...for that I assume I would need to be syncd up via midi (?)
I seriously doubt I will run projects simultaneously on both platforms, even though it seems possible. I like the hard choices the 1680 makes me make and I can very happily take several drum tracks and bounce all that to a stereo pair before mixdown. It's not that hard to open the tracks back up if necessary to change a level or whatever.
VirDis and Reaper. Cool.
Learning curve, here I come ;-)
I'll try to get some successes here before posting so I don't get too tweaky....I really appreciate your help and support!!
Rick
Edited by RD (04/30/18 02:48 AM)
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Using my original VS 1680 27 years now and counting!
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#1570114 - 04/30/18 12:16 PM
Re: Syncing VS 1680 to Reaper
[Re: uptildawn]
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RD
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Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1394
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
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Thanks! It's amazing how much of the talk gets technical online and for somebody like me who has good working knowledge on the 1680 but nearly zero understanding of midi or computers, file transfers etc, this place (and your kind replies) has been a life saver!!!
I'm ordering the Y midi USB cord this morning.
Another question: do I need some sort of interface to take digital (or analog) outs (one or two at a time) from 1680 TO PC? And back to 1680? Or can I just connect through the RCA's or spdif directly? It's not covered in the plain brown manual that I can see...
RD
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Using my original VS 1680 27 years now and counting!
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#1570123 - 04/30/18 03:11 PM
Re: Syncing VS 1680 to Reaper
[Re: RD]
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uptildawn
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Registered: 12/15/01
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Not sure I remember what you're using for a pc - laptop, desktop, older, newer......
But I was just having a discussion with someone on the 880 forum about cheap, but decent usb interfaces for the laptop - http://www.vsplanet.com/ubbthreads/ubbth...294#Post1570110
The Tascam interface I saw in a brief search looked like a real bang for the buck, if you have to get one. It also has midi built in - and so if your y-cable doesn't cut it for some reason and you find that you need an interface that does more than what you currently have, then you would benefit from the built in midi, plus mic, line and digital inputs on that unit.
If you think you have a good enough pc soundcard already and it has the digital in and out in spdif or coaxial format, then that could be your cleanest path for audio - but it will also restrict (possibly) what recording modes on the VS will work. I'm thinking in particular about sample rates -
Many pc soundcards that have native digital in and out are often restricted to only 48k, or sometimes only 44.1k and 48k. They often will only do 16bit. This was originally designed with typical video and dvd sample and bit rates in mind (48k/16bit), but we in audioland more often work with 44.1k (the audio CD standard) and 24bit, when we can, for the higher headroom it provides when editing/processing/mixing and the potential for less degraded details in the audio mix - that gets dithered down to 16 bit eventually, if we're releasing physical audio cd/dvd product.
Analog-wise, you can rely on consistent quality all day long with the rca outputs for either 2-track or even 8 direct dry signals realtime transfers to the pc And any of the VS inputs set for line level gain (all the way to the left on the attenuation pot - 9 0'clock is a typical position) will work fine to accept the output from a pc.
The trick may be in your pc's analog signal quality - many built-in soundcards have decent enough sound quality for audio output that clean enough for casual listening, but suffer from too much hiss and even ground noise and rf interference where pro quality detail is needed.
A good quality interface has to have clean audio in the analog realm, flexible sample/bit rate acceptance in the digital realm (and in a perfect world, the best internal jitter-free specs possible) and hopefully midi in/out jacks - plus getting into the weeds, but highly significant (that is CRITICAL), the quality/reliability of its driver software - which keeps things running smoothly and prevents the frustration of things like lost connections. Many USB interfaces have suffered for a reputation with badly written/inconsistent driver software over the years. But I didn't happen to see any bad reviews of that Tascam usb interface and was happy to not find any glaring out at me in my brief search.
There are certainly better interfaces who's main differences in quality and price come from the internal/unseen functioning of the units. It can make a great difference, so if you need an interface, be sure and check as many sources for decent product reviews, consider what the users are buying the interface for (home theater can work, but is not what we need) and weigh your options on both features and reliability equally.
Edited by uptildawn (04/30/18 03:15 PM)
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uptildawn
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#1570159 - 04/30/18 07:40 PM
Re: Syncing VS 1680 to Reaper
[Re: uptildawn]
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RD
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Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1394
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
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Thanks for that! I've scoped out the Tascam interface from your link and am about to purchase. Awesome reply!!
My nephew who works on our computers emailed me back the following in my query about my computer's soundcard.
"So, that computer does not have a seperate sound card. It has integrated audio with the motherboard. Translate to a couple 3.5mm jacks for audio interface. It would be no problem to add a sound card. We would do it pretty much the same way we added the connector for the roland (VirDis)."
My question: will the Tascam interface unit tend to eliminate my need for a soundcard in this instance? (sorry about the "pc101" questions!)
Edited by RD (04/30/18 07:52 PM)
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Using my original VS 1680 27 years now and counting!
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#1570162 - 04/30/18 08:07 PM
Re: Syncing VS 1680 to Reaper
[Re: RD]
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uptildawn
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9067
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if your nephew expects to install the Tascam the way you did with VirDIS, then you must be using a desktop pc?.... not a laptop, right?
If I'd known for sure, I could have probably pointed you to a number of excellent quality, discontinued, pci/pcix/pcie based interfaces that would connect that way and possibly been even more wow! RME, M-Audio, Echo, Motu, Lynx, to name some of the best I know of - check out this list of cards on ebay - https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R4...=p2045573.m1684
Not saying you should change your mind, but if you are using older pci technology and older windows - 7 and before - maybe it's worth looking into. The same requirements apply, of course. and finding performance reviews should be easy, although would be many years old, but still relevant.
If the Tascam fills you needs and you have both desktop and laptop, or just laptop, then I still think you might have a winner there.
With usb, you could even install on both lappy and desktop and be able to swap it out when needed, like traveling with the lappy and in the studio with the desktop, for instance.
In fact, you won't even need anybody to help you install the Tascam from what I gather - most said they didn't bother with the Tascam driver files on the cd, nor bother downloading them from the Tascam website, because they said windows default drivers appear to pick it up on installation just fine. It should be as easy for you to install as any other usb device you've used. The only thing you might want help with is how to set up your daw program to use it instead of your built-in sound. You should even be able to leave your built-in turned on and use it for basic stuff, like media player, or whatever. You should probably turn off windows sounds, however, in either case, because they can tend to drag the sample rate down to their level without your wanting them to - or so I've been advised many, many times and just follow that advice.
The Tascam, or any other interface, essentially IS your soundcard, so yes it can replace it, but maybe won't have to entirely, if you don't want it to - see comments in paragraph above.
Edited by uptildawn (04/30/18 08:08 PM)
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uptildawn
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#1570196 - 05/01/18 02:05 AM
Re: Syncing VS 1680 to Reaper
[Re: uptildawn]
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RD
Planeteer
Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1394
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
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Awesome! Yes, as you sleuthed out, we are indeed talking Dell desktop, Windows 7, loaded with VirDis, and a minor compliment of typical items but nothing else.
I got the Tascam interface on Amazon for $115 used...we'll hope she works...thanks again for the insights!
I also have a laptop and the Reaper can they said be migrated to another computer as needed. Honestly though, if I'm off in the woods without my studio I doubt I'd do much recording...
The whole subject of using he VS 1680 with a PC, VirDis, Reaper and all the philosophy is just starting to take hold...
I have some old tracks a friend left on my 1680 and I'm going to try my first lisping attempt to send them to VirDis and then off to him via wav. We'll see how I do!
Jane and I are seriously going to need to buy you dinner or something for all your amazing support here.
Rick
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Using my original VS 1680 27 years now and counting!
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#1570528 - 05/04/18 01:36 AM
Re: Syncing VS 1680 to Reaper
[Re: RD]
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RD
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Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1394
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
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Syncing VS to Reaper...hooking it up:
I received the Tascam US144 Audio Midi interface.
So here's what I think; (please correct me if I'm wrong?)
VS1680 digital in/out via RCAs to Tascam digital in/out RCAs, so now the VS can talk to the Tascam with digital musical tracks
VS1680 midi out to Tascam midi in using Y cord that goes to USB, thence into PC via USB port// ? so the Vs and Tascam can send receive midi from the PC ?
Assuming the above makes sense, how does the computer send any digital tracks to the 1680 to record those (not transfer but record)?
And maybe related...there seems to be a USB 2. out on the Tascam which I believe also powers the Tascam. What else does that USB 2 line do?
Profusion of confusion here ;-)
I'm off to review everything and will pull this question down if I figure it out :-)
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Using my original VS 1680 27 years now and counting!
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#1570536 - 05/04/18 02:22 AM
Re: Syncing VS 1680 to Reaper
[Re: uptildawn]
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RD
Planeteer
Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1394
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
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Yup I got the 144mk11 USB 2.0
Thanks for your thoughts! I'm reading it over..it makes sense...I don't have a usb2 cord here so it's getting ordered now.
The Y cable was probably me on a lark of my own then lol! I looked at the 1680 and the scsi connection obscured one of the midi ports-shoot me now...sheesh.
So if I understand, digital and midi ins and outs between Roland and Tascam, and USB to PC once I get the proper usb2 cord.
BTW the Tascam is the five knob one...some of the YouTube vids are a four knob unit but it still seems relevant.
I'm almost there :-)
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