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#1587602 - 10/05/18 08:54 AM Retaining mix fader positions
aanon Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 10/05/18
Posts: 8
Greetings fellow vs fans.

I'm new so this is my first post. To introduce myself, I'm using a vs2000cd with VGA output, and although I've dabbled with various DAWs i just keep coming back to this machine as it's so nice to have something hands on and robust that just keeps working and which doesn't distract from the business of tracking inspired takes! Also, i use it with a qy700 sequencer, which is another beautiful machine, and together they are a dream compared to anything PC based I've tried, especially in terms of MIDI timing.

My question today is this: should the vs2000cd retain latest mix/fader settings for each song?

From reading the manual I'd expect the fader values to be retained with the song and able to be changed, if desired, by moving the physical faders (exactly how this happens being governed by the"fader match" setting).

But this doesn't seem to be what is happening with my machine.

I've noticed that on my unit a song's track fader values will seemingly be set to be the same as the physical fader position as soon as I open a song (ie before I've moved any faders at all).


Could other users please comment on what you see?

All the best,

Aanon

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#1587604 - 10/05/18 09:05 AM Re: Retaining mix fader positions [Re: aanon]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8427
Loc: Iowa
I don't have an answer for you right now - but one quick way to be sure the settings are retained, or at least instantly recallable would be to set a "scene" just before you save and close the song. At the very least, you should be able to verify whether or not the machine is actually resetting your faders when you open a song. And if it truly is doing so, you at least have a quick way to recall all the proper settings by way of recalling the scene.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1587608 - 10/05/18 09:21 AM Re: Retaining mix fader positions [Re: uptildawn]
aanon Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 10/05/18
Posts: 8
Great idea, uptildawn. I'll try this next chance I get and report back.
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#1587670 - 10/05/18 07:37 PM Re: Retaining mix fader positions [Re: aanon]
aanon Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 10/05/18
Posts: 8
I have done some tests and can be more definitive in describing the issue now.

Phenomenon:

When I open a basic song (that contains no automix data), the last-used fader settings are not recalled. Rather, the actual physical fader levels are instantly applied.

Method used to confirm:

- Set up a mix of 16 audio tracks with varying fader levels
- Save the project file
- Shut down the VS2000CD
- Pull all physical faders down to -∞
- Restart the VS2000CD and open the same project file

Result: no sound, all onscreen faders are now at -∞

- - - -

This behaviour is contrary to what is stated in the official user manual (p.380):

"When you load a stored project, there’s no relation between the position of the 16 physical faders and the stored FADER parameter levels for their corresponding track channels."

- - - -

uptildawn suggested capturing a mix scene prior to saving the project and shutting down, and recalling the scene to recover the correct mix settings.

this works as a workaround/backup (thanks uptildawn), but I'd still like to see the VS2000CD behave the way it is apparently supposed to.

- - -

I wonder whether other VS2000CD users observe the same behaviour as me?

All the best,

Aanon

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#1587676 - 10/05/18 10:28 PM Re: Retaining mix fader positions [Re: aanon]
Bobkat Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 1203
Loc: St. Marys,Ontario,Canada
Hi Aanon,using the scene function as Up suggested works well to set your virtual faders positions and to recall them.I use to view the virtual fader positions on the screen first and move the physical faders to match them after opening a project.



Edited by Bobkat (10/05/18 10:31 PM)

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#1587677 - 10/05/18 11:00 PM Re: Retaining mix fader positions [Re: Bobkat]
aanon Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 10/05/18
Posts: 8
Thanks Bobkat,

So, just to confirm, are you saying your vs2000 also does not retain fader position info when saving/opening a project (unless you capture a scene)?

Aanon

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#1587682 - 10/06/18 06:54 AM Re: Retaining mix fader positions [Re: aanon]
eutak Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/21/09
Posts: 151
Loc: UK
It's as you say aanon and the manual is misleading. But yes, a scene is the answer, or automix data when it kicks in.
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#1587784 - 10/06/18 09:57 PM Re: Retaining mix fader positions [Re: eutak]
aanon Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 10/05/18
Posts: 8
Thank you eutak and all responders on this thread.

I now at least know I am not crazy, and I have a workable solution to go on with in the form of capturing SCENES.

I really appreciate the responses and support. Great place.

All the best,

Aanon

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#1587868 - 10/07/18 05:10 PM Re: Retaining mix fader positions [Re: aanon]
haysonics Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/10/13
Posts: 80
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Scenes are the way I do it but if you go into the parameters tab you will see a couple of options for setting fader moves. Sorry I can’t be specific, I am on a train at the moment but that may be the solution. I use scenes as my children have a little game they play on my board when I am not looking
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#1587939 - 10/08/18 04:11 PM Re: Retaining mix fader positions [Re: haysonics]
aanon Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 10/05/18
Posts: 8
Hey haysonics,

Just to clarify, on your VS can you open various projects and find that each one has correct fader settings on opening (i.e. even without using a SCENE recall)? If so, this is what I'm after, so I'm very interested to hear more about the settings.

Aanon

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#1588057 - 10/09/18 05:19 PM Re: Retaining mix fader positions [Re: aanon]
haysonics Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/10/13
Posts: 80
Loc: Sydney, Australia
I know that if you don’t choose to store on shutdown, when turning back on you don’t get the last settings but instead what was saved when you last stored. Storing is more than just saving the music, it’s also storing settings. Whether you have to have saved a scene as well I am unsure as saving scenes was forced upon me by my little darlings 5 minutes after my VS arrived 🐣 If you are storing on shutdown then I wonder if your clock is accurate? as a flat battery could be the culprit.
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#1588190 - 10/11/18 07:25 AM Re: Retaining mix fader positions [Re: haysonics]
aanon Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 10/05/18
Posts: 8
Thanks for ideas.

My clock appears to be working fine.

I am saving my songs before shutting down but not finding the fader settings are retained when i reopen (except if i deliberately add a scene and recall it).

Others on this thread have also reported that their vs2000s act the same as mine.

I wonder whether you would mind doing a test on your machine, using the same testing method I outlined in my third post? It would be very interesting to know if your machine behaves differently.

All the best,

Aanon

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#1588255 - 10/11/18 04:30 PM Re: Retaining mix fader positions [Re: aanon]
haysonics Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/10/13
Posts: 80
Loc: Sydney, Australia
I did a test following your method and got what you did (faders set to nothing). I had saved/stored on shutdown but hadn't saved any scenes. Interesting !
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#1588401 - 10/13/18 07:35 AM Re: Retaining mix fader positions [Re: haysonics]
aanon Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 10/05/18
Posts: 8
Ah, too bad. Well, it's good to get clarification in any case, and i thank you for taking the time.

Seems like a strange oversight by the Roland programming team, but there's very little else to complain about with this machine so i guess I'll just forgive and keep having a great time using the VS!

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#1588413 - 10/13/18 09:36 AM Re: Retaining mix fader positions [Re: aanon]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8427
Loc: Iowa
According to your own pdf manual, pg 380 says -

When you load a stored project, there’s no relation between the position of the 16
physical faders and the stored FADER parameter levels for their corresponding track
channels. The VS-2000 allows you to set the method by which the faders and their
corresponding FADER parameters are brought into agreement. When the FADER
MATCH parameter is set to:

Null
—the physical fader takes over control of the FADER parameter’s value once
you move the physical fader up or down so that its position corresponds to or
passes by the current FADER setting.

Jump
—the FADER parameter value jumps to the setting reflected by the physical
fader’s position as soon as you move the physical fader.

_____________

Still seems to me that the most elegant method is to store one scene before saving/shutting down and recall that scene upon restarting the project. You can continually update/overwrite that one scene as well, assuring that only one scene is used for this purpose.



Edited by uptildawn (10/13/18 09:40 AM)
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1588415 - 10/13/18 10:37 AM Re: Retaining mix fader positions [Re: uptildawn]
eutak Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/21/09
Posts: 151
Loc: UK
 Originally Posted By: uptildawn
According to your own pdf manual, pg 380 says -

When you load a stored project, there’s no relation between the position of the 16
physical faders and the stored FADER parameter levels for their corresponding track
channels. The VS-2000 allows you to set the method by which the faders and their
corresponding FADER parameters are brought into agreement. When the FADER
MATCH parameter is set to:

Null
—the physical fader takes over control of the FADER parameter’s value once
you move the physical fader up or down so that its position corresponds to or
passes by the current FADER setting.

Jump
—the FADER parameter value jumps to the setting reflected by the physical
fader’s position as soon as you move the physical fader.

_____________

Still seems to me that the most elegant method is to store one scene before saving/shutting down and recall that scene upon restarting the project. You can continually update/overwrite that one scene as well, assuring that only one scene is used for this purpose.


Contrary to what the manual suggests, the VS2000 doesn't store the FADER parameter levels when you store a project. The null/jump setting makes no difference here, but yes, storing a scene before shutdown is the work around.

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#1588416 - 10/13/18 10:48 AM Re: Retaining mix fader positions [Re: eutak]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8427
Loc: Iowa
It does say that the physical fader has to be moved to initiate the Jump feature..... so, yes, you're right, but yes there is a setting to get your fader positions to the last used position when you call up your project - since the project mixers will have the last used positions set for that project.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1588417 - 10/13/18 11:33 AM Re: Retaining mix fader positions [Re: uptildawn]
eutak Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/21/09
Posts: 151
Loc: UK
 Originally Posted By: uptildawn
.... since the project mixers will have the last used positions set for that project.


That's the problem, they don't. Say you store the project with Fader level (on the screen) at 1db, then shutdown, then move the physical fader while VS is shutdown, then open project...Fader level on screen will be where you set the physical fader before powering up.


Edited by eutak (10/13/18 12:13 PM)

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#1588419 - 10/13/18 12:01 PM Re: Retaining mix fader positions [Re: eutak]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8427
Loc: Iowa
Oh - I see. That IS contrary to what the manual suggests... Sorry - I don't use the 2000cd, so I had to assume the manual was stating the actual expected result.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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