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#1730390 - 05/16/21 05:00 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: uptildawn]
gmskyhook Offline
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Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 58
uptildawn

You must have missed my early posts where I said the CF Adaptor and card were my first choice and attempts. Didn't work for me so I ordered the SD Adaptor and SD card Saturday (received it same day). The SD mod initially worked but it's where I'm stuck.

No worries, bro, I am not confused at all. By trial and error and some feedback, I am learning.

Hopefully I'll learn more vs stuff and others will learn some better social skills, LOL.


Edited by gmskyhook (05/16/21 05:02 PM)

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#1730391 - 05/16/21 05:05 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: gmskyhook]
uptildawn Offline
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8899
Loc: on land
 Originally Posted By: gmskyhook
uptildawn,

I do appreciate your help now and in the past.

If poeple speak condescending, I will pass on the "help." Music is great, but it's not my whole life and certainly no excuse for people to be rude. I respect others, and they need to respect me for it to work.

Not so helpful: "Look - you are in the process of potentially screwing up your chances of getting what you want from both the VS and from the forum (where we’re attempting to help you)."

...


You need to understand that when we are attempting to be helpful and the response is to just go deeper and deeper into a hole, or to go off on some tangent, then we get alarmed and fear for your potential failure and the possible loss of important data. Sometimes the only response is to be very blunt - you must admit that it does get a response and jogs a person's thoughts back to what's important.

Try to be more understanding of our responses, when they appear to be on the rude or condescending side. We (who attempt to help - blinded by distance) have, most of us, been frustrated by the loss of important work and by our attempts to prolong the lives of our aging tech in our own experience. It's frightening to see people just take jabs at solutions without the experience to go with them.
_________________________
uptildawn

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#1730392 - 05/16/21 05:09 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: gmskyhook]
uptildawn Offline
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8899
Loc: on land
 Originally Posted By: gmskyhook
uptildawn

You must have missed my early posts where I said the CF Adaptor and card were my first choice and attempts. Didn't work for me so I ordered the SD Adaptor and SD card Saturday (received it same day). The SD mod initially worked but it's where I'm stuck.

No worries, bro, I am not confused at all. By trial and error and some feedback, I am learning.

Hopefully I'll learn more vs stuff and others will learn some better social skills, LOL.


Actually, you're wrong.
I was specifically responding to your earlier post about the failed cf card option. I went into detail, earlier, about my concerns and surprise that you could have possibly put the card or adaptor upside down...... If you read my post and understood it, you would already know this. I also repeated those points in the reply you just responded to.

It's precisely why I have made the point, twice now, that you should consider trying the cf mod again... It stands a far greater chance of success as the internal drive replacement then the sd card solution is ever likely to.



Edited by uptildawn (05/16/21 05:11 PM)
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#1730393 - 05/16/21 05:11 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: uptildawn]
gmskyhook Offline
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Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 58
You were beating a dead horse with the upside down pin thing.

I was there, I told you twice, you kept going on..

The CF card part was helpful and I DID listen, as I was actually on Amazon looking for the CF card stff when you messaged your latest....

I do read and make my decisions based on info. You should give people a bit of space to receive info and decide...


Edited by gmskyhook (05/16/21 05:16 PM)

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#1730394 - 05/16/21 05:34 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: uptildawn]
JohnM Offline
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Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 3483
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
I read more of the earlier posts that were posted before I came
back to the forum. I forgot how many settings there were. \:\)

My 880EX has a 2G drive, so ultimately I will just have sys
drive 0 and 1. Please jump in, and correct me if I am wrong,
but I tend to strive never to be, which is why I state that.

OK - progress, as far as now I know that you leave the media in.

NEXT - I assume that you have more than 1 song, and you are able
to navigate between them, and everything works OK, until the
unit is shutdown, and started at a later time.

___ please confirm this, I will use this notation as a checkoff


NEXT - I was thinking about it, and wondering instead of a
shutdown, there is actually an option to restart, instead
of powering it off. I am wondering what behavior a restart
will cause, so"

___ attempt a restart

I/We should learn a lot about your situation/configuration after
getting these 2 answers. \:\)

I'll be looking at the forum periodically for at least a couple
hours, unless something comes up, but it shouldn't. \:\)

EDIT: I just realized that this is page 2, and I have not yet
read page 1. I am not up for that, I have been since the wee
early morning, but I am eager to hear if a restart causes the
date to be preserved or not. \:\) I'll check back at least once
more tonight...


Edited by JohnM (05/16/21 05:58 PM)

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#1730397 - 05/16/21 06:06 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: JohnM]
gmskyhook Offline
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Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 58
John,

Yes I leave the media in. Yes I have had 2 songs loaded, and I'm able to navigate and do work between them.

But, thus far they get wiped out when I power off then on.

When I power on it reads SYS Init.Drive= U?
It will only let me answer Yes, then it clears all data.


Edited by gmskyhook (05/16/21 06:15 PM)

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#1730403 - 05/16/21 06:16 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: gmskyhook]
JohnM Offline
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Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 3483
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
1 - You can't have 2 songs loaded. \:\) I assume that you are
referring to the fact that you have 2 songs saved to the HD,
and you can switch between them, 1 at a time of course, all
works as expected?

2 - There is a "Restart" operation, not a power off, and it
can also be canceled now that I think of it, so there is
two more things to try, to see what happens, and help identify
just at what "phase" your HD is getting corrupted.

3 - I am not an IDE expert, or even a novice, never went there.
It may be possible, and I hope that others chime in, to put
a switch in in the "write" line, or equivalent, and perhaps
that will be helpful to get you running, and/or for other
purposes. It would be helpful to know if this is possible.

I think that's it for my forum checking tonight though, and
I look forward to hearing how your testing went.

One way or another, I expect you to get this working. Are
you up for trying a HD to see if that even works, if someone
sent you one to try? I'm just typing and thinking quickly for
other possible avenues to explore.

Have a great evening, experimenting, and hopefully soon you
will be able to save your songs, and have them retained for
use next time you power-up. \:\)

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#1730405 - 05/16/21 06:21 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: JohnM]
gmskyhook Offline
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Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 58
John M,

1. Yes
2. Yes, I've tried all options but didn't make notes to tell you now.
3. This question is over my head and best left to the more experienced here.


Yes, I'm considering either trying the CF route again, and I'm looking at two possible refurbished HD Drives on eBay (one in the US, one in the UK).

One way or another, Yes!!

Thanks Bro!! \:\)


Edited by gmskyhook (05/17/21 09:06 AM)

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#1730414 - 05/16/21 07:00 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: gmskyhook]
JohnM Offline
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Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 3483
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Hi, I'm back for a while. Plans change, usually. \:\)

In this case I decided to do some laundry, and a few other
things like see what's going on in the 880/890 forum, and around
the world.


EDIT: Ok, I just caught up reading your latest post. I think
it will be helpful to know the answer to question #2, and
perhaps some other folks will chime in, if you decide not
to try those steps again, and take notes as to when things
stop working, under those conditions. We know that the normal
shutdown and power on cycle causes corruption.

Yes, I would not worry about question 3 yourself, someone sooner
or later will chime in, to answer it, or at some point I will
ask some folks outside of the forum.

SO, I would say, when you decide to resume experimenting and
note-taking to be able to share the results:

1 - Have 2 songs like you do now, verifying you can switch between them,
and everything works as expected. We can refer to that as known point #1.

2 - Try this and verify if you are still at known point #1 afterwards.

A - Request a shutdown, and when you have the option to cancel and restart, restart
Check...


I will continue this later, I need to go do something...


Edited by JohnM (05/16/21 07:10 PM)

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#1730417 - 05/16/21 07:05 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: JohnM]
gmskyhook Offline
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Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 58
Blessed are the flexible!!
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#1730418 - 05/16/21 07:25 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: gmskyhook]
JohnM Offline
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Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 3483
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Ok I'm back, the best way to communicate is in "spurts", as
we make progress, so you will know when there is a new thread,
instead of me editing an existing thread, if you agree, state so. \:\)

I was thinking about this, and remember it's been a while since
I used my unit daily. I thought I had another procedure to
try, and I will think about it some more.

There may also be some regulars in the "watering hole / grill",
general talk forum, that can help but do not know this is
taking place. At some point you or I can inform them by
posting a thread. I think many have had 880s at one point,
and some may be IDE experts for question #3 etc. \:\)

I will try to think of something else that you could try,
and I plan to return at some point, but I can not say when,
and I am eager to see if what I posted above produces for
results.

Oh yeh, an OS upgrade may help, but the changes of the OS
having got corrupted is low, but others may know more.

Also, your machine may not even work properly with a real HD,
something to keep in mind, in which case nothing we try now
will help...

Anyway, I updated mine to the latest a long time ago, and
if you do not have the latest, you are missing out on Mastering
capability, and possibly some bug-fixes. Again, I will read
page 1 at some point soon, in which you may have stated your OS. \:\) Until then, have a good one...


Edited by JohnM (05/16/21 07:25 PM)

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#1730437 - 05/16/21 08:34 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: JohnM]
JohnM Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 3483
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
FYI - A little while ago, I posted a note about this thread
in the general talk forum. As of right now, 89 folks have seen
it, and I would expect within a day or two, someone will chime
in about the possible IDE drive write "switch" and if it's feasible.

Also, some folks may know if an OS re-flash or upgrade if
you have the old one, could even possibly help this issue.

In the meantime, I am hoping that you get the time to try the
experiment that I last posted, and post the results, and it
is impossible for me to know if there is a different set of
tasks that the 880 does on a power-up, then when a shutdown is
canceled, and the OS is put into a record/play ready state
again.

I can say for sure that some disk activity takes place, since
something has to be going on while the user waits, after requesting
a shutdown, and the "ok to power off" type message is displayed,
similar to a Microsoft Windows and LINUX shutdown. \:\)

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#1730480 - 05/17/21 01:03 AM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: JohnM]
uptildawn Offline
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8899
Loc: on land
This is just a report of a battery of tests I ran tonight. I was using my old 880 (v-xpanded), a 4GB Toshiba SD card (Class 4, SDHC to be precise), the sd card adaptor and cf card adaptor (that I already own and know works on the 1680). The sd card works with the cf adaptor by way of a nifty little cf/sd adaptor card that looks just like a cf card with a slot for the sd card to fit into. I lost track of the only cf card I used to have, so that test will have to wait until I get another one soon.

Test results:

1- I can confirm that my 880 is fine with the sd card as an internal drive replacement using either the sd adaptor or the cf adaptor mounted in an original HDP88 hard drive caddy (with the bridge card that came with it to convert the hard drive pinout to the ribbon pinout requirement).

2- I can format and record tracks - no problem.
3- I can remove the card after fully powering down as recommended by roland and put the card in a usb card reader connected to the pc (the one I use is a Dane and it's the best of a bunch I tried back at least 6 years ago).

3a - the card reader, by the way, can either work great, or can have devastating affects on a drive and its contents - as I discovered when one reader fried one of my vs hard drives. At the very least, the usb card reader may or may not work and a person may need to try a few different ones before finding a good match - price does not necessarily factor in to what works.

4- Windows 7, 32 bit prompts me to open a folder containing files, which I decline/X out of. VSWE immediately recognizes whichever partitions contain SONGS and populates its main window. Exporting .wav files is then a simple matter.

5- Windows 10, 64 bit immediately grabs command and unnecessarily opens as many windows as there are partitions, which I then have to close. VSWE does NOT auto-populate its main window and I am forced to open at least one window to view the available drives/partitions and drag the one I think has SONGS I need into vswe's main window. From there, I can extract .wav files as usual and quite quickly, compared to win7.

6- Most importantly, I am able to then remove the sd card and put it back in the 880, power up normally and all partitions and SONGS are intact and ready to go.

7- I ran this test multiple times and with as many variations as I could stand - having to power down and back on repeatedly is tiring to say the least.

8- I did NOT, however, try simply using shift/stop to shut down yet - that is, instead of fully powering down and shutting off the power switch. That may be an important step and tomorrow I will run a few tests again to see what happens.

9- I still believe that the issue is the adapters and not the routine. But I should be able to confirm this at least partially when I am awake and alert in the morn.

That's all for now.

An addendum -
I seem to recall that the class rating of the sd card has some bearing on how well it works (I might have had issues with class 10 back when I was really into this) and that anything from class 4, 6, or 8 worked fine in my tests at the time.

Also, I think it's important to use an SDHC card and not the slower SD card - purely for performance sake.

But these two points have nothing to do with the issue of the 880 wanting to reinitialize the card every time the machine is powered back up.


Edited by uptildawn (05/17/21 10:01 AM)
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#1730483 - 05/17/21 04:03 AM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: uptildawn]
JohnM Offline
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Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 3483
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
That is an amazing post. \:\) Thanks.

I remember now, from way back when, when MicroSoft Windows
not by a flaw in design keep in mind, (but I will not elaborate
now), used to access and write to other forms of media, such
as "Zip diske", etc., when they were seen added to a running
Microsoft Window system.

Anyway, it seems, UptilDawn, that you also are experiencing some
type of system behavior, that you are trying to understand the
underlying issue causing some unexpected system behavior, so
there is more than just one issue that this thread is trying
to address and resolve. Please correct me, if I have this wrong.

\:\) And, thanks again for that post.

Oh Yeh, I know that various Windows OS variants can have the
behavior changed, to specify what action is desires when new
media is discovered. But as I recall, even in some situations,
directing the system "do nothing", causes no window to be popped
up on the screen. But, it does not necessarily prevent the OS
from possibly writing something to the media involved.

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#1730504 - 05/17/21 09:11 AM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: JohnM]
gmskyhook Offline
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Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 58
John M,

Good ideas.

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#1730506 - 05/17/21 09:20 AM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: gmskyhook]
gmskyhook Offline
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Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 58
uptildawn,

I agree with John M, that post was AMAZING!

I will read and re-read it several times cause there is a lot of wisdom, and I am a slow learner.

Thank You for that awesome wisdom and excellent wording!

Do you have a link for the Nifty sd/cf adapter?


Edited by gmskyhook (05/17/21 10:07 AM)

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#1730510 - 05/17/21 09:48 AM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: JohnM]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8899
Loc: on land
 Originally Posted By: JohnM
That is an amazing post. \:\) Thanks.

I remember now, from way back when, when MicroSoft Windows
not by a flaw in design keep in mind, (but I will not elaborate
now), used to access and write to other forms of media, such
as "Zip diske", etc., when they were seen added to a running
Microsoft Window system.

Anyway, it seems, UptilDawn, that you also are experiencing some
type of system behavior, that you are trying to understand the
underlying issue causing some unexpected system behavior, so
there is more than just one issue that this thread is trying
to address and resolve. Please correct me, if I have this wrong.

\:\) And, thanks again for that post.

Oh Yeh, I know that various Windows OS variants can have the
behavior changed, to specify what action is desires when new
media is discovered. But as I recall, even in some situations,
directing the system "do nothing", causes no window to be popped
up on the screen. But, it does not necessarily prevent the OS
from possibly writing something to the media involved.


Please - I don't want to add another layer of confusion to this thread. The windows behavior here is a minor annoyance (that can be resolved with a settings change in windows, as you suggest). I only pointed it out in order to be complete.

Yes - the question of windows writing something to the media is a concern - as it has been throughout the many years we have been trying to make this all work. My cautionary habit - guided by suggestions from way back - has been to avoid poking around the files that windows displays as much as possible. Then, to simply use vswe, or the ripper, or whatever tool is needed to get the .wav files extracted and then close the open window. If it's something I need to save, I will usually copy the entire folder onto the pc's hard drive for safekeeping as well. This does not appear to create problems when I then put the card back in the 880.
_________________________
uptildawn

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#1730515 - 05/17/21 10:27 AM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: uptildawn]
JohnM Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 3483
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
I do not sense adding confusion by what I posted.

i will point out that there is more than one "Windows".

If there are two people here in this thread, experiencing
two different issues, with two different configurations, then
I suggest creating two distinctly separate threads to
divide and address.

I will periodically check this forum, to see if that has been
done, and if it has been done, I will once again participate if invited.

BTW, not referring to this thread specifically.

Some folks enjoy calling or labeling situations or individuals
as "impossible", "difficult", "outrageous", "unreasonable", and it can also be applied to situations. \:\)

In my almost six decades on this wonderful piece of land known
as the USA, I have never encountered anything that I could not
solve, for the most part.

I do not care to argue in any fashion, but I will monitor the
thread for now.

BTW, I will be posting on FaceBook, possible about the 880EX,
and also about some "hot mics/cameras" if and when I see certain
interesting things released on the web, and I will leave it at
that. \:\)

Whether or not my 880EX will function when I next take it out
of the $150 case, is unknown, since it took a ride on a bicycle
when I was "forced" to leave my home unexpectedly, and I chose
to keep my B.C. Rich N.J. series guitar, and the VS safe by
taking them with me, until a friend that owns a local music
store could "house" them for me.

So, put all of this in context, and I am somewhat hesitant to even
start to think about a conversion, to SD or CF for sneaker-net
capability to a PC, for a more convenient method of remaining
within the digital domain for audio production, without having to
burn a CD, and then rip it on the PC. \:\)

All is good. If some idiots around my area, just happen to think
that they can "fire me up", by aggravating me, then that is what they think. \:\)

It is quite possible that not much goes unnoticed around here,
and has not for many years by many people around the world,
27/7/365, and I do not care to know the extent or the parties,
for several reasons.

Anyway, I will periodically check the forum to see if I have
been invited to assist in solving an isolated separated equipment
issue. \:\)

All is good, but time is not infinite, and very precious.

As far as privacy, I either have it, or I don't.

When I am certain that I do, I may let some folks know. \:\)

I hope at some point to see a brand new take in this forum, at
addressing discrete issues, logically, rationally, and reasonably.

I have some things to do, and some things to wait to do... \:\)

Thanks for so many great posts, and a clear example of how
some folks currently use their equipment and attempt to
experiment, and relay their experiences. \:\)

EDIT:

just a slight followup about courts:

The ball is in your court now, as far as the thread(s).

My ball is not in anyone's court. \:\)

And if someone that is an idiot thinks I deranged, that it
says a lot about them, like the old adage, by someone famous. \:\)

EDIT 2:

A great quote for inspiration and potential edification:

“The vast majority of human beings dislike and even actually dread all notions with which they are not familiar .... Hence it comes about that at their first appearance innovators have generally been persecuted, and always derided as fools and madmen.” (Aldous Huxley)

EDIT 3: I made some edits to the intentionally long winded text above, and I have
skimmed today's posts in this thread, but I am not participating in the problem-solving of the many issues, as I am not really qualified, never having done a
conversion. I out some ideas on the table regarding my knowledge of how a stock
non-modified VS operates, and in the domain of trying to determine the various ways
that the VS can be shutdown and restarted, in both "cold" and "warm" manners.

Based on what I read today, I am confident you guys will discover what you need to
isolate the area of the media corruption, and you will be up and running, possibly
with the new hardware that arrives. I really hope that the new hw that is coming
works, and that your VS does not have to be re-capped as someone suggested might
be another variable and link in the chain of things that all must function for the
VS to function correctly, now a couple decades or more old. \:\)

And, I started a new thread about possibly modifying and enhancing the OS so options
could be added, newly discovered defects could be addressed, and the idea seems
interesting. This thread, spawned the idea somewhat. \:\)


Edited by JohnM (05/17/21 05:06 PM)

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#1730523 - 05/17/21 10:37 AM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: uptildawn]
gmskyhook Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 58
uptildawn,

Do you have a link for this: "nifty little cf/sd adaptor card"

Is it this or just like this one? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019REDBY6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A2LBXA42DU1HSL&psc=1

Thinking of buying the CF adapter: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08NVN3FJK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_10?smid=A2S7F3O8N742PI&psc=1


Edited by gmskyhook (05/17/21 10:57 AM)

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#1730529 - 05/17/21 11:26 AM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: gmskyhook]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8899
Loc: on land
I don't have a link for the exact cf/sd adapter I bought around 2011, but I think something of this style should work. They show a picture of the many types of cards it can be used with. I don't know if the wifi ability it has will be an issue for the 880...... Mine didn't have that capability. I haven't seen any that don't have it now.

Also, I pretty sure you want to avoid the type 2 adapters. I think they are the wrong size. This is type 1 and I think may be more common?

https://www.amazon.com/QUMOX-Compact-Mem...21264224&sr=8-3
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uptildawn

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#1730530 - 05/17/21 11:36 AM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: gmskyhook]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8899
Loc: on land
 Originally Posted By: gmskyhook
uptildawn,

Do you have a link for this: "nifty little cf/sd adaptor card"

Is it this or just like this one? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019REDBY6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A2LBXA42DU1HSL&psc=1

Thinking of buying the CF adapter: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08NVN3FJK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_10?smid=A2S7F3O8N742PI&psc=1


Ha! I see our posts crossed.
Yes, I think the adapter I linked to is the same as the one you posted.

It appears also, that the cf to ide adapter you linked to is the current version. I couldn't find any that look exactly like the one I have. Mine looks more generic, with much less print. But that could simply be because 10 years ago they didn't feel the need to be so detailed?
_________________________
uptildawn

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#1730543 - 05/17/21 12:43 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: uptildawn]
gmskyhook Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 58
uptildawn,

Awesome. I just ordered the CF drive and CF/SD card adapter card. The drive is supposed to arrive Saturday.

Great stuff! Appreciate all the details and help. \:\)

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#1730548 - 05/17/21 12:56 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: gmskyhook]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8899
Loc: on land
Okay - I just confirmed (and now remember) one essential bit of info... at least for the 880.

With the sd card as internal drive and powered up with song loaded -
1- I used shift/stop to power down, but did not switch off.
2- Removed the sd card and read it with vswe in the windows 10 pc (I haven't tried with windows 7 yet, but I think results are the same).
3- Put the sd card back in the vs and powered up using shift/restart......

The 880 did not like that - first it hesitated quite awhile before finally finishing the boot up routine. Then it showed - No Drv (or whatever that says).
Fortunately, shutting off the 880 by switch and then turning it back on with power switch brought it back to life and it quickly booted up normally.

Unlike the 1680, which I have used quite a bit more than the 880 (although I've had the 880 longer), the 880 NEEDS to be completely shut down and switched off before removing and replacing the internal drive - be it a traditional spinner, or a flash drive like the sd card.

I will test how it behaves with windows 7, but I am almost certain that this issue is entirely an 880 design and not even directly related to the forced reinitialization problem we're trying to get to the bottom of in this thread.

Later...
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#1730549 - 05/17/21 01:05 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: uptildawn]
gmskyhook Offline
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Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 58
"Fortunately, shutting off the 880 by switch and then turning it back on with power switch brought it back to life and it quickly booted up normally."

Are you saying just shut it off without doing Shift + Stop?

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#1730555 - 05/17/21 01:32 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: gmskyhook]
uptildawn Offline
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Registered: 12/15/01
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 Originally Posted By: gmskyhook
"Fortunately, shutting off the 880 by switch and then turning it back on with power switch brought it back to life and it quickly booted up normally."

Are you saying just shut it off without doing Shift + Stop?



In this case - yes, that's what I said and meant.
When the 880 says NoDrv, you don't have the option to use shift/stop, because it won't work. When it says NoDrv, I switch off with the power switch. Powering back on a few seconds later brings the 880 back up every time - using the adapters I am testing with.

Under normal circumstances, it's advisable to use the recommended shutdown and power off routine - in fact, it is necessary with the 880 (series, I assume) to do so if you're taking the drive out for some reason.

In fact, if after using shift/stop to power down (we could call that standby mode), you should happen to remove the drive and then want to put it back in and start the 880 up, be sure to use the switch to first turn the unit off and then switch on to boot back up. The 880 should forgive you that sin and boot normally.
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#1730557 - 05/17/21 01:42 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: uptildawn]
uptildawn Offline
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I was able to confirm that removing the drive after only going into standby mode (shift/stop) and then rebooting using shift/restart will cause the 880 to report NoDrv, regardless of using windows 7, or 10, or simply removing the drive and then reinserting it. The 880 does not respond kindly to this action and will report NoDrv upon reboot.

It is then necessary to use the power switch to shut off the machine and power back on in order for the complete boot sequence to happen - I guess. And if for some reason it still doesn't boot properly, shutting down and powering back up another time should fix the issue. If that doesn't work and the 880 still reports NoDrv, then the problem is probably user error - as I have discovered at least 3 times already.......

Do be sure that you have completely inserted the sd card in its little slot on the adapter card. It's very easy to think it's in all the way - it pushes past some resistance when first inserting it and it feels solid. You don't want to put too much stress on it, so you assume it's all the way in - half the time you may be right, but half the time you could only have it in most of the way. Go ahead and push a bit harder - straight in - and make sure it's gone all the way in. I've had to redo a whole series of steps with these tests 3 times already, because of this.
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#1730559 - 05/17/21 01:50 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: gmskyhook]
uptildawn Offline
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I decided to buy the very adapters linked to way back in the 12th post in gmskyhook's reply showing which cf and sd adapters gmskyhook bought. I want to test both of them and compare tests against the version I have and bought maybe 10 years ago.

I should have them in hand before the end of the week and will report my testing as soon as I can after getting them.
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#1730565 - 05/17/21 02:40 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: uptildawn]
gmskyhook Offline
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Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 58
uptildawn,

Thanks for the clarification. I'm still wondering if my past problem with the CF card and adapter was that I didn't have it inserted just right as you said. Hope mine arrives before Saturday.

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#1730574 - 05/17/21 03:25 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: gmskyhook]
uptildawn Offline
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Loc: on land
Yeah - another thing that happened to me last night was that one of the center pins (the longest ones, I think) on the cf adapter at the card end got bent down and was touching the one below it. It happened when I must have misaligned the cf card while sliding it in to connect. The cf card can feel like it's aligned on the guide rails, but be too high at the same time. I must have pushed it in far enough to bend the pin - end result was that I had a few moments where I thought the 880 wasn't reading the card after a reboot.

Fortunately, I was able to very carefully lift the pin back into position and re-straighten the one below too. Now I am very careful to line up the guide rails and watch what I am doing until the card is all the way up to and butting into the adapter pin wall.
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#1730586 - 05/17/21 04:33 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: uptildawn]
gmskyhook Offline
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Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 58
Great catch and good to know...
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#1730821 - 05/18/21 05:24 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: gmskyhook]
JohnM Offline
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Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 3483
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
FYI - Not to contribute any advice, but you motivated folks
working on this, and experimenting, to address the issues may
find it enjoyable. \:\)

As of this moment, there are 956,899 views on the HD conversion
thread! \:\) Have a great day! \:\)

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#1731048 - 05/19/21 01:01 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: JohnM]
gmskyhook Offline
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Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 58
So last night for fun I truned on my vs880ex. I loaded 2 songs. Saved them. Then powered off without proper shutdown as uptildawn suggested hoping it would not do the hard drive wipe like it's done every time since I installed the SD adapter. Turned it back on and my songs were gone. So I'm able to load songs, do edits and such, but once I power off it's all wiped.

Getting the CF adapter Saturday, so hopefully that will resolve things.


Edited by gmskyhook (05/19/21 01:07 PM)

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#1731064 - 05/19/21 01:40 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: gmskyhook]
JohnM Offline
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Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 3483
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
May I ask if, if when you say "load songs", do are you referring to "record song"?
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#1731073 - 05/19/21 02:03 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: JohnM]
gmskyhook Offline
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Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 58
I load my two nearly finished songs from my Roland cd burner to my vs880ex.
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#1731074 - 05/19/21 02:07 PM Re: Any help really appreciated. SYS Init. Drive=No DRV [Re: gmskyhook]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8899
Loc: on land
 Originally Posted By: gmskyhook
So last night for fun I truned on my vs880ex. I loaded 2 songs. Saved them. Then powered off without proper shutdown as uptildawn suggested hoping it would not do the hard drive wipe like it's done every time since I installed the SD adapter. Turned it back on and my songs were gone. So I'm able to load songs, do edits and such, but once I power off it's all wiped.

Getting the CF adapter Saturday, so hopefully that will resolve things.


I think you should be able to recover those, if you will try shutting down completely and then powering back on again.

At least I was able to do so, if when I first lost them the vs said NoDrv. The other message we get is about reinitializing - unformatted, etc. and a third message sometimes says something about force initialization, or something... I might check these 3 messages out again today and report back in order to be clear.

But I just wanted to suggest that you might be able to get them to be recalled. Maybe I'm mistaken. It gets confusing with so many trials to run.

----------------------------

John -
Loading Songs is the act of recalling a previously created song file, either from a backup cd, or simply by calling it up, or selecting it from the song list.

Record Song is simply the act of recording tracks, or adding tracks to an existing song. It can also include any act of mixing, editing, etc. existing material - in the context of this discussion about converting or modifying a VS recorder to use flash media in place of a 'spinner' (traditional) hard drive.

-----

Yeah - like gmskyhook said, while I was still typing.


Edited by uptildawn (05/19/21 02:09 PM)
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