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#1592598 - 11/17/18 03:17 PM MIDI Remote & Automix FX questions
SMUDGE Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/29/17
Posts: 41
Hi all. Still working on my DJ-808 > VS 2400 and VS backup projects.

Meanwhile,
I can't find anything on this in the 2400 manual.

When I'm automixing I've noticed that if I'm using an effect that when I leave the automix and revert to the non-automated mix and then back to automix again my effect will always change back to one that was being used before and I lose my patch and its settings. There is no place to save the FX in the automix setup. Just pan/level/etc. It's very frustrating not to be able to target edit and save the FX in automix mode. Am I doing this wrong? I find that if I get an effect the way I want I need to master that track and stamp it wet if I want to save it.

The other thing is I would like to know if in the MIDI setup menu there is a way to set the VS to remote, to just accept MMC start/stop messages. I don't fully use or understand the entire MIDI setup menu and have just left it as it was once I got a proper sync set up between my VS and my sequencers. What do I check or uncheck to get the VS to accept only start/stop?

Thanks to anyone and all for their time in helping me out.

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#1592602 - 11/17/18 03:49 PM Re: MIDI Remote & Automix FX questions [Re: SMUDGE]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8427
Loc: Iowa
pg 466 of your pdf manual -
Automix Parameter List
The VS-2400CD’s Automix feature can record and playback changes to the values of the
following parameters.
*1 When ChLink or FLink is on. *2 When ChLink is on
*3 When Aux Busses 1 and 2 are linked. *4 When Aux Busses 3 and 4 are linked.
*5 When Aux Busses 5 and 6 are linked. *6 When Aux Busses 7 and 8 are linked.
Input and track channel parameters
Automix name: Description: Automix name: Description:
LEVEL(Fader)
Mix Send Level
AUX7/8SendPAN
AUX7/8 Send Pan *6
PAN
Mix Send Pan
Surnd PAN
Surround Pan
OFFSET LEVEL
Offset Level *1
Surnd DEPTH
Surround Depth
OFFSET PAN
Offset Pan *2
Surnd LR:C
Surround LR:C Ratio
MUTE
Mute
Surnd SubWLev
Surround Sub Woofer
Level
AUX1 Send Sw
AUX1 Send Switch
EQ Sw
EQ Switch
AUX2 Send Sw
AUX2 Send Switch
EQ Low Gain
EQ Low Gain
AUX3 Send Sw
AUX3 Send Switch
EQ Low Freq
EQ Low Frequency
AUX4 Send Sw
AUX4 Send Switch
EQ LoMid Gain
EQ Low Mid Gain
AUX5 Send Sw
AUX5 Send Switch
EQ LoMid Freq
EQ Low Mid Frequency
AUX6 Send Sw
AUX6 Send Switch
EQ LoMid Q
EQ Low Mid Q
AUX7 Send Sw
AUX7 Send Switch
EQ HiMid Gain
EQ High Mid Gain
AUX8 Send Sw
AUX8 Send Switch
EQ HiMid Freq
EQ High Mid Frequency
AUX1 Send Lev
AUX1 Send Level
EQ HiMid Q
EQ High Mid Q
AUX2 Send Lev
AUX2 Send Level
EQ High Gain
EQ High Gain
AUX3 Send Lev
AUX3 Send Level
EQ High Freq
EQ High Frequency
AUX4 Send Lev
AUX4 Send Level
InsFX1 SndLev
Insert Effect 1 Send Level
AUX5 Send Lev
AUX5 Send Level
InsFX2 SndLev
Insert Effect 2 Send Level
AUX6 Send Lev
AUX6 Send Level
InsFX3 SndLev
Insert Effect 3 Send Level
AUX7 Send Lev
AUX7 Send Level
InsFX4 SndLev
Insert Effect 4 Send Level
AUX8 Send Lev
AUX8 Send Level
InsFX1 RtnLev
Insert Effect 1 Return Level
AUX1/2SendPAN
AUX1/2 Send Pan *3
InsFX2 RtnLev
Insert Effect 2 Return Level
AUX3/4SendPAN
AUX3/4 Send Pan *4
InsFX3 RtnLev
Insert Effect 3 Return Level
AUX5/6SendPAN
AUX5/6 Send Pan *5
InsFX4 RtnLev
Insert Effect 4 Return Level
FX return channel parameters
Automix name: Description: Automix name: Description:
LEVEL (Fader)
Effect Return Level
AUX2 Send Lev
AUX2 Send Level
BALANCE
Effect Return Balance
AUX3 Send Lev
AUX3 Send Level
MUTE
Mute
AUX4 Send Lev
AUX4 Send Level
AUX1 Send Sw
AUX1 Send Switch
AUX5 Send Lev
AUX5 Send Level
AUX2 Send Sw
AUX2 Send Switch
AUX6 Send Lev
AUX6 Send Level
AUX3 Send Sw
AUX3 Send Switch
AUX7 Send Lev
AUX7 Send Level
AUX4 Send Sw
AUX4 Send Switch
AUX8 Send Lev
AUX8 Send Level
AUX5 Send Sw
AUX5 Send Switch
Surnd PAN
Surround Level
AUX6 Send Sw
AUX6 Send Switch
Surnd DEPTH
Surround Depth
AUX7 Send Sw
AUX7 Send Switch
Surnd LR:C
Surround LR:C Ratio
AUX8 Send Sw
AUX8 Send Switch
Surnd SubWLev
Surround Sub Woofer
Level
AUX1 Send Lev
AUX1 Send Level
Master Edit
Automix name: Description: Automix name: Description:
LEVEL
Master Level
Balance
Master Balance
Aux bus parameters
Automix name: Description: Automix name: Description:
LEVEL
AUX Master Level
POSITION
AUX Position
BALANCE
AUX Master Balance
Direct path parameters
Automix name: Description: Automix name: Description:
LEVEL
DIR Master Level
POSITION
DIR Position
BALANCE
DIR Master Balance
Effect 1-4 parameters
Automix name: Description:
PATCH
Effect Patch Number
V-LINK parameters
Automix name: Description: Automix name: Description:
BANK
Clip Bank Select
COLOR Cb
Color Cb Control
CLIP
Clip Select
DISSOLVE
Dissolve time
BRIGHTNESS
Brightness Control
PLAY SPEED
Play Speed
COLOR Cr
Color Cr Control
<ALL>
Play All Clips in Bank

*1 When ChLink or FLink is on. *2 When ChLink is on
*3 When Aux Busses 1 and 2 are linked. *4 When Aux Busses 3 and 4 are linked.
*5 When Aux Busses 5 and 6 are linked. *6 When Aux Busses 7 and 8 are linked.

______________________________

Notice that mixer parameter for effects things, like sends and returns, are indicated, but no the actual effects patches - nor are scenes automatable, you might notice.

I don't know that there's any VS model that can automate the changing of effects patches, or scenes........ they have never been that way, to my knowledge.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1592608 - 11/17/18 04:34 PM Re: MIDI Remote & Automix FX questions [Re: uptildawn]
SMUDGE Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/29/17
Posts: 41
Hi Uptildawn,

It must be saving something akin to a patch setting, otherwise it wouldn't revert back to a previously used one each time I return to the automix mode.

I'll use a reverb, later I'll use a compressor, leave automix, return to automix, and my compressor has reverted back to the reverb and of course I've lost all my settings (having not saved the compressor as a user patch).

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#1592613 - 11/17/18 05:14 PM Re: MIDI Remote & Automix FX questions [Re: SMUDGE]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8427
Loc: Iowa
Yes - the effect patch you inserted/applied originally is not forgotten, but the effect patches are not among those items which can be recalled through automix. It is simply not an automatable item....... Have you tried saving the "new" patch as a user patch, called it up while in automix and then tried the same routine?....... You will find that it still does not switch from the earlier patch to the saved user patch.

It probably goes back to the earlier one, rather than the later one, because it is made to see the zero-point as the default mixer/settings place to retrieve its data points from. The fact that it does default back to this zero-point starting place still does not imply that it can and should recall effects patches on the fly through automix, because automix is not designed to recall effects patches.

I would assume that one reason it does not recall patches and scenes is because of the potential for glitches and dropouts to occur while the thing is being recalled. Maybe the VS system is not sophisticated enough to hold both items in memory and transition between them without any disruption, so Roland decided to avoid the potential problems and leave these out of the automix feature set - Note that you can not set and recall different virtual tracks either - which would have made automix an incredibly versatile tool....
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1592614 - 11/17/18 05:29 PM Re: MIDI Remote & Automix FX questions [Re: uptildawn]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8427
Loc: Iowa
I take it back - (I don't have time at the moment to try it out and jog my memory (but I may tomorrow) - according to the 1680 manual - try this out (I hope I have the right quote...

Automating Effect Changes
Use Snapshot automation to program effect patch changes
“on the fly.” Use the following steps to create effect-change
Snapshots.
1. Make sure Automix is On. The AUTOMIX button should
be lit.
2. To automate the effect changes for Effect 1 and Effect 2,
make sure the Effect 1/3 and Effect 2/4 SELECT buttons
are blinking. If the Effect SELECT button is not blinking,
hold [AUTOMIX] and press the SELECT button so it
begins blinking.
3. To automate the effect changes for Effect 3 and Effect 4,
hold [SHIFT] and make sure the Effect 1/3 and Effect 2/4
SELECT buttons are blinking. If a SELECT button is not
blinking, continue to hold [SHIFT], hold [AUTOMIX]
and press the SELECT button so it begins blinking.
4. Locate to the point in the song where you want the effect
to change.
5. To change the effect preset, hold [SHIFT] and press [F3
(EFX A)]. Here you can change the settings for Effect 1
and Effect 2.
6. Press [F1 (EFX1)] to select Effect 1. If “EFX1” does not
appear above [F1], press [F6 (EXIT)] until it does. Then,
press [F1 (EFX1)].
7. Press [F2 (Sel)] to select a different preset.
8. Use the TIME/VALUE dial to choose the Effect.
9. Press [F4 (Exec)].
10. Hold [SCENE] and press [TAP].
11. Repeat Steps 3-10 for each effect change you want to
store.
12. When you’re done, press [ZERO] followed by [PLAY] to
hear the effect Snapshots.
As we have seen, you can automate effect parameter changes
by creating multiple versions of your effect with different
settings as user effect patches. Then you can use Snapshot
automation to recall the desired version at any point in your
song. For example, let’s say you are using the GuitarMulti1
effect with the delay turned off and you want the delay
portion of GuitarMulti1 turned on for the solo section of the
guitar track. You can create two versions of the GuitarMulti1
effect, one with delay and one without, and save them as
separate patches in the user bank. Then, using Automix, you
can create a Snapshot at the beginning of your song with the
“no delay” version of the effect selected. Next, advance the
VS-1680 to the beginning of the guitar solo. Select the “delay”
version of your effect and create a second Snapshot. Finally,
move to the end of the guitar solo. Select the “no delay”
version of the effect again and create a third Snapshot. When
you play back your song with Automix turned on, your
guitar part will only have delay during the solo section.

__________
I hope this is helping. Sorry I don't have time to check it out...
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#1592615 - 11/17/18 05:36 PM Re: MIDI Remote & Automix FX questions [Re: uptildawn]
SMUDGE Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/29/17
Posts: 41
"You will find that it still does not switch from the earlier patch to the saved user patch."

I am a little confused by your use of "still", because it sounds like you might think that my issue with the VS FX in and out of Automix is the reverse of what I'm intending to convey. Elsewhere it reads like you get what I mean though. Maybe you didn't mean to type still or was going to say something else and didn't.

Thanks all the same. I'm going to try it with a user patch.

I wonder. I frequently use the previous project's parameter (forget what they call it) settings when I create a new one and I wonder if perhaps when I did this if I didn't realize that I had an effect activated on one of the channels and if the VS thinks I always want that effect at zero.

EDIT
This was a response to your post before last. I didn't see your last post. Reading it now.
I tried saving a patch and seeing if it would revert to a previous one after exiting auto mix and re-entering and it did not change patches this time.


Edited by SMUDGE (11/19/18 12:11 AM)

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#1592753 - 11/19/18 12:29 AM Re: MIDI Remote & Automix FX questions [Re: SMUDGE]
SMUDGE Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/29/17
Posts: 41
I'm going to pour over my manual and see if the 2400 has similar functionality to the 1680 regarding scenes/FX/automix. I never use scenes, but instead snapshot my automix at mark points then edit as necessary. It follows that I wouldn't have a forgotten scene with a designated FX that could be gumming up the works and constantly recalling an unwanted FX patch.

If it's there in the manual you don't have to respond. It's a waste of somebody's time to have them look up stuff like that. I'll keep the board posted regardless. Thanks UtD.


Edited by SMUDGE (11/19/18 12:30 AM)

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#1608693 - 04/06/19 01:52 PM Re: MIDI Remote & Automix FX questions [Re: SMUDGE]
SMUDGE Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/29/17
Posts: 41
UPDATE

This is old news I'm sure but, for new readers, ultimately I was unable to automate cycling through FX (as in PC# ?) on the 2400. I have no idea what was going on with the FX jumping back to previous settings when toggling in and out of Automix mode, other than perhaps when the project was created I had copied settings from a previous project and in its initial setup an effect was unintentionally left on and it kept reverting back to the initial setting each time I exited Automix. I'm not sure if that counts as a bug, but it was annoying. I still love the 2400 though, and VS recorders period. I still love my VS-880 V-Xpanded. I had a Boston Terrier when I got it new in 97 and somehow one of his hairs ended up under the display plastic, so I'll never part with my 880!

I've updated my setup by purchasing Serato DJ Pro and incorporating it into Ableton. This means any timing issues or complicated FX edits can be handled with ease. There is no comparison with the quality of certain Roland FX (reverb, mic modeling), but Ableton does have its unique options. Plus Serato uses Izotope FX which are very nice and unique, perfect for hands-on adjustments, although the quantity is limited.

I view the 2400 now as a penultimate step in completing a project and the machine is thus much less frustrating. Additionally, it is a perfect mate to the MV-8800 and is much more inspiring now that I know I can perfect and finesse anything I make at a later stage and just concentrate on raw creativity. I might start a thread on the compatibility of the two, especially since they were made with basically the same aluminum chassis and physically compliment each other so well.

Thanks for your help people.

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