Page 1 of 1 1
Topic Options
#1624902 - 08/06/19 11:10 PM Mixing workflow/technique
VSOP Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/28/18
Posts: 75
Is anybody willing to lay down thier general workflow when mixing?

I know what mixing consists of, but I'm lost on where to begin. It seems there is no real protocol, just intentions.

I've been panning and using the eq. I think my next step is to mess with some reverb and delay. Does this sound like a typical workflow when mixing?


Edited by VSOP (08/06/19 11:10 PM)

Top
#1624906 - 08/07/19 12:41 AM Re: Mixing workflow/technique [Re: VSOP]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8508
Loc: Iowa
I can see scenarios where a straight forward mixing process, order, even using routine templates created for the type of work are the order of the day - a job doing voice overs, with a regular group of vocal talent all the time might be one. But for me, different mixing flows work for different context and no one method seems to be cut and dried in the sort of things I have to mix.

If mixing a small group - say a trio, or 4-5 piece band, I can generally start as you have - panning and eq to start putting together the "soundstage" and separate the instruments or make them blend more, depending on the need. Adding reverbs and delays helps to create and define space, much like panning and eq'ing, so I would say that's a logical step to either follow, or be a part of what you've started with.

If there's drums and/or if there's vocals, it's an important part of the process to decide which of the two will become the foundation from which everything else is placed around.... that can and often does go hand-in-hand with panning, eq and effects, too.

Other than this, using compressors and limiters has become a major and common element in all mixing today - so much so that it is also part of the fundamental first steps (in fact, with these processes often happening at the input stage with outboard gear during recording... and then additional dynamics processing used during all stages of the mixing process.... right up and into the final stages of creating a two-track mixdown, where these tools are again applied on the main output to help shape and control the entire mix, blend and dynamic of the overall mix.

As I type, I think I have to admit that there doesn't appear to be a workflow in the sense that you mean in your question... It is all an interwoven process. It is dynamic and changes as each new element is added and/or changed, because the mix is continually being shaped and reshaped until I finally hear it as a whole...
sorry if this is not helpful. I feel like I'm rambling, because it's late. \:\)
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

Top
#1624986 - 08/07/19 06:17 PM Re: Mixing workflow/technique [Re: uptildawn]
VSOP Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/28/18
Posts: 75
I get what you're saying. "Mixing" is kind of constant.

What roll does the Automix function play in the overall production? Does it have anything to do with actuall mixing? Or is it just for volume and track mute control?

Top
#1624987 - 08/07/19 06:31 PM Re: Mixing workflow/technique [Re: VSOP]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8508
Loc: Iowa
read the manual for details - but it can control many, many functions. It can't change scenes and it can't change effects (IIRC???) and it can't change playback speed/sample rate.... But it is indispensable!

USE IT!! Learn to use step style, as opposed to realtime changes and learn gradation for things lie panning and fading.... Indispensable.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

Top
#1625073 - 08/08/19 10:19 PM Re: Mixing workflow/technique [Re: uptildawn]
VSOP Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/28/18
Posts: 75
Thanks, UTD.
Top
#1625081 - 08/08/19 11:59 PM Re: Mixing workflow/technique [Re: VSOP]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8508
Loc: Iowa
Double check on what automation can do effects-wise. I'm just not sure and don't have to time test it out for the next couple of weeks.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

Top
#1625170 - 08/10/19 04:18 AM Re: Mixing workflow/technique [Re: uptildawn]
drachir Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 44
I don't really know what you are looking for, but I will chip in and say how I go about the mixing.
I generally work by myself writing and recording 'pop/rock' songs; that is drums, bass, guitars, keys, vox and b/vox, so nothing too fancy!

So for me the mixing process becomes a combination of arranging, producing and engineering.
When I've been recording the parts, I will have a basic idea of how the track should 'sound' overall, and what musical parts I want to be the 'basis' of the mix (good riff/ bass figure/ keyboard fill etc).
Then I would try and get the rhythm track sounding sweet. That is (well for me at least) getting the drums and bass to sound complementary and working together. Listen to the bass drum and bass together. Very 'old school' rule is that a bass guitar note should cover every bass drum beat, (and similarly the rhythm guitar should cover the snare beats). As I say this is a rule of thumb from tape era recording, but still very useful, and if you find a mix is not sitting well, you might well find the problem here. What it does is to give the bass guitar track a kick (literally) and the bass drum a tone, and the two together cement the very basic core rhythm.
Then I would listen to the rhythm guitars together, get them sounding tonally distinct, and balance them L/R in the pan field. I will usually put these tracks into a 'Group' so they both (or more) work on just one fader.
Do the same with the keyboard parts.
Keep listening back to the parts you are assembling, to make sure there are no clashing tones, and there is a wide tonal range, and that you can hear all the parts. If there is, say, a guitar part that isn't clear in the mix, then try taking it out altogether to see if it actually adds anything, or change the eq so it makes the sound 'harder'. Remember that a sound you hear of any track in the mix, may be very different to the sound of the track soloed. For example, a guitar track might benefit from having all the mid low bass taken out, which may help the guitar track stand out, and also help the bass end of the whole tack to be more distinct.
Always remember that the vocals are the whole point of a song!!! Pay a lot of attention to eq and any sweeteners (reverb, chorus, delay etc) that you add. Sitting the vocals 'in, but on top of' the backing track is a tricky art in itself.
I try to imagine the tracks I record as a band, playing in front of me in a room. This will help determine the pan arrangement which should be balanced across the 'stage'. I try to mix tracks initially with minimum reverb, then when it is coming together, 'place' the band in a room.

All this is just my way of working. There are of course no fixed rules, and any rules are there to be broken!
The best advice I ever had was to really know what you are listening to. Buy the best studio monitors you can afford, or a good pair of studio headphones. Listen to some tracks that you know and love through these, and pay attention to the breadth of sound that these tracks have. Then try to get the same soundscape into your own mixes.

Hope this makes sense.
Enjoy yourself

Top
#1625332 - 08/10/19 10:14 PM Re: Mixing workflow/technique [Re: drachir]
LarryG Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 02/04/00
Posts: 1873
Loc: SW Florida
Very helpful input from everyone on this.

/L
_________________________
/L

Top
#1625616 - 08/12/19 05:38 PM Re: Mixing workflow/technique [Re: LarryG]
VSOP Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/28/18
Posts: 75
Thanks, drachir. It makes sense. Moreso now than it would have a few months back.
Top
#1625892 - 08/15/19 12:27 AM Re: Mixing workflow/technique [Re: VSOP]
VSOP Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/28/18
Posts: 75
I've been messing with an external reverb rack. Page 257 and 258 of the manual have the instructions for an external effects unit. The last part of the instructions (#13) just basically says to put the fader/mute button to TR when satisfied. Is that all it takes stick the reverb on a track? Will the effects stick once powered off then powered on without the reverb hooked up? This part of the manuel doesn't quite go into detail. I did the same steps for a few different tracks one at a time. They all stuck to the respective tracks at this point.
Top
#1625983 - 08/15/19 01:44 PM Re: Mixing workflow/technique [Re: VSOP]
VSOP Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/28/18
Posts: 75
Got my answer.
Top
#1632556 - 10/14/19 04:34 AM Re: Mixing workflow/technique [Re: VSOP]
RD Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 1308
Loc: Michigan, someplace near a swa...
To which, I would only add: the VS units work in a way like the old days of analog...making production decisions (sometimes called stems) is useful for organizing.

For example, get all your percussion tracks and bounce a mix over to a linked pair so the drums are now a stereo pair. This is not a destructive bounce as you can do it again later but it will assist in managing the workflow.

Automix is the same. I use it to do mix automation, but you can also do a bounce and have your stereo pair automixed...again, freeing up the surface save as you can now use those track channels (v tracks) for new material.

Then, send all the stuff over to Virdis, export wav files and load them into any DAW like Reaper .


Edited by RD (10/14/19 04:35 AM)
_________________________
Using VS 1680 23 years now and counting!

Top
#1634152 - 10/29/19 08:01 PM Re: Mixing workflow/technique [Re: RD]
VSOP Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/28/18
Posts: 75
Some people I've read like to "check" their mix in mono.

Can "checking" a mix in mono be done on the 1880?

Top
#1634155 - 10/29/19 09:16 PM Re: Mixing workflow/technique [Re: VSOP]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8508
Loc: Iowa
Assuming that you have powered monitor speakers and have them connected directly to the analog master outputs on the 1880 -
Then, assuming that you're simply checking a 2-track (stereo) mixdown and not the multi-track recording - then it's as simple as going to the stereo pair's track mixer page where the mixed down tracks are (say ch 17/18, v-tk 16). Cursor over to the MIX parameter, press the F6 button under the display and pan the Left and Right pan controls straight up. This blends the left and right channels to center.

But, if you are checking the multi-track recording to try and zero in on a suitable mix before committing a bounce to the master pair, then you've got to come up with a different solution......

If you have a spare pair of channels (HA! Who has spare channels?), then you could probably route all the tracks and their effects to the pair of tracks and then pan their MIX/pan control(s) straight up. But that's cumbersome.

There's no convenient way to pan the master section to mono for checking mono compatibility - some big oversight, I think, considering how routinely this procedure has been done in stereo mixing, since stereo's inception.

Another way is to connect your 1880 outputs to an external mixer and/or amp that has pan controls. Hook your speakers up to the external mixer/amp and use that device as a glorified pan control...... sounds like a great plan.... right?

If you have a spare effects card free (ha! again), you might see if there's a multi-effect that has a pan control, blend, or mix control........ I can't think of one off the top of my head.
_________________________
uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

Top
#1634461 - 11/02/19 12:03 AM Re: Mixing workflow/technique [Re: uptildawn]
VSOP Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/28/18
Posts: 75
Thanks UTD
Top
Page 1 of 1 1


Hop to:
Shout Box

Who's Online
9 registered (Dan Barnes, avetter11, Dave Morris, pbrowne, Brian Glock, Mark Oakley, 3 invisible) and 4 anonymous users online.
Top Posters
52079
Jazzooo
44077
Al
40001
Silversmith
39196
Timster
32942
Tom Mix
31030
Ismellelephant
29054
Popmann
28853
gonzo
28771
NOK
28716
Mooseboy
27032
moontan
26630
C Jo Go
26507
Doughboy
25419
flatcat
23691
paulb
23563
Marty Gilman
23310
RGR
21692
fabulousthunderbird
21125
fonts
20662
Gretsch 6120
19598
vvvm
19427
String Jammer
19375
Vanillagrits
19343
glensimonds
18923
T57Strat
18894
GAMBLE
18791
Jammer
18086
SteveW
17932
JazAddict
17600
GAWZDigitalUnderground
17522
Geo
17282
Hano
16239
Dave Morris
16210
Liquidirt
16175
Delso
15887
Slabraton
15846
slotz
15821
LakeStone Karl
15464
Milkman
Forum Stats
21080 Members
26 Forums
140175 Topics
1617689 Posts

Max Online: 290 @ 11/19/19 07:32 PM
Newest Members
sammyopop, William1, kelvin, Boomer1900, Pierpsx
21080 Registered Users

Generated in 0.01 seconds in which 0.003 seconds were spent on a total of 13 queries. Zlib compression disabled.