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#1640354 - 01/07/20 10:14 PM Connecting External Effects, any benefit to using DIF-AT
EdW Offline
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Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Canada
Greetings,
I am thinking of getting a good external effects processor(probably a TC electronic M3000 or M2000) mainly for a good reverb.
So far I have just tried making the connections using an old stereo reverb on hand
and connecting Aux A to Aux 7&8(Jacks 3 and 4) and returning to track inputs 15 and 16 as someone had recommended somewhere but
I wasn't real happy with this arrangement because with four effects cards the controls for the 7&8 auxs affected the on board effects as well as the external effects at the same time.
In view of this I am wondering if there is a better way to do this and if using a DIF-AT would eliminate that issue?
While I have experience with the recorder connecting external effects is new to me.
Thanks
Ed

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#1640426 - 01/08/20 12:54 PM Re: Connecting External Effects, any benefit to using DIF-AT [Re: EdW]
March Offline
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Registered: 04/26/99
Posts: 2045
Loc: IA
You don't want to use the Roland effects AND external effects of an outboard processor at the same time. The sound will get really muddy.

The Roland reverbs are decent. With four cards, you can use separate effects on each track (don't insert them) with total control. You don't need an outboard processor.

If you really want to use an outboard processor, the configuration suggested above should work. The TC electronic has analogue inputs so sending the signal via auxiliary into the TC and returning them on 15-16 will give you the effected track. Once you record them, you can mix the 15-16 reverbs to your heart's content.

In theory, keeping the signal in the digital domain bypasses the A/D D/A convertors, giving you a "cleaner" signal. But when it comes to reverbs... the benefits are minimal, I think.

I use an Eventide outboard which has digital ins/outs, but I use it only in analogue mode. I use the TC finalizer and gold channel in digital domain, for mastering or for tweaking only one channel.

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#1640470 - 01/08/20 08:05 PM Re: Connecting External Effects, any benefit to using DIF-AT [Re: March]
C Jo Go Online   content
pseudo musician ~●●~
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Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 26665
Loc: carmel valley,ca
We use the ROLAND AE 70000 :: which allows us -- up to 8 effects send/returns === all DIG I/O . Only one factory card in the VS -- the rest our routed through the AUX 3 - 8

3 >> TC Electronics -- in the rack ..
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#1640480 - 01/08/20 10:30 PM Re: Connecting External Effects, any benefit to using DIF-AT [Re: C Jo Go]
EdW Offline
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Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Canada
Thanks for your responses March and C Jo Go,
that is helpful information.
March you wrote that using the built in effects and external effects at the same time would make the sound really muddy... do you mean using the IFX and XFX on the same Auxs(in my set up Aux 7&8) or even on different Auxs( XFX on Aux 7&8 IFX on Aux 1&2, for example)?
The Roland AE 7000 sounds interesting, I may keep a lookout for one...would that just connect to the recorder with an R-BUS cable and then XLRs to and from the XFX and AE 7000? What about routing inside the recorder?
Well tonight I bought a TC Electronics M2000 on eBay and I guess for now I will connect to the analog ins and outs of the M2000 but I was just wondering if the 1/4" plugs going in and out of the VS-2480 should be TRS or just TS?
Sorry for all the questions but the help is really appreciated.
Thanks!
Ed

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#1640485 - 01/08/20 11:28 PM Re: Connecting External Effects, any benefit to using DIF-AT [Re: EdW]
uptildawn Offline
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8509
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The 1/4" inputs on the 2480 should be trs and should not be a problem whether using a mono or stereo plug as long as your input signal is mono, since the 2480 line input is not stereo.
I'm not sure what the aux jacks are on the 2480.

you can always look up the specs in the 2480 manual to be sure - pdf version is available on roland's support pages.


Edited by uptildawn (01/08/20 11:35 PM)
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#1640503 - 01/09/20 09:16 AM Re: Connecting External Effects, any benefit to using DIF-AT [Re: uptildawn]
March Offline
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Registered: 04/26/99
Posts: 2045
Loc: IA
What do you mean by IFX and XFX? Not familiar with the terminology
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#1640507 - 01/09/20 09:55 AM Re: Connecting External Effects, any benefit to using DIF-AT [Re: March]
keeppracticing Offline
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Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 1221
Loc: Atlanta
The VS8F-3 expansion board's plugins are phenomenal and keeps everything in house. The TCR3000 Reverb plugin is awesome!

As CJo mentioned, AE7000 is another option out digitally. You could also invest in an ADC/DAC to get you in & out and bypass Roland's converters. I used to use a Black Lion model that I got used on ebay for $300 and it worked very well. I eventually upgraded to Lynx Hilo and Aurora(n) units, as I could afford them.

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#1640512 - 01/09/20 01:22 PM Re: Connecting External Effects, any benefit to using DIF-AT [Re: keeppracticing]
EdW Offline
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Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Canada
IFX refers to Internal effects(IFX) and XFX refers to external effects.
Sorry I should have explained that.
I first saw those initialisms in Franks VS writings although the actual contributor of the entry was karl.
I am interested in The TCR3000 and am considering that also, seems like that would be pretty straight forward.
I don't know much about the AE7000 or the ADC/DAC... is one better than the other?

In an earlier reply March wrote about not using internal and external effects at the same time...does that mean if they share a common bus or that you should just only use internal or external at one time?
If that is the case I may want to focus more on the internal FX as I have invested a bit there already.
Thanks for all the suggestions.

Ed

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#1640522 - 01/09/20 04:45 PM Re: Connecting External Effects, any benefit to using DIF-AT [Re: EdW]
March Offline
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Registered: 04/26/99
Posts: 2045
Loc: IA
Okay, that makes sense.

If you want to use internal effects which are like stated above, quite decent on the VS8F effects board, then go to the effects button on the VS and choose Reverb as Effects 1. Go to the channel screen and boost Auxiliary 1 all the way to 0, Then go to the 17-24 screen--right of channel 24, the 2480 will have faders controlling the amount of effect for each channel, depending on AUX 1. Slide the fader corresponding to your first effect up--and you'll have reverb on that channel. You'll hear it immediately and may adjust it to taste

Now if you want an external effect, make sure that all your AUX buttons are at infinity (7 o'clock) or/and "off" before you process the signal. You'll see all 8 AUX buttons at the bottom of your channel screen. Doesn't hurt to make sure the faders for AUX are all the way down either.

Point is, you need to send a clean signal to the outboard processor. If it has even a smidge of on-board effect, the results will be disappointing.

You might want to experiment with the Roland effects before buying an external unit. Take them one by one-even if you have two internal effects on the same track, the results may be ugly. Don't overdo effects. Often enough less is more.





Edited by March (01/09/20 04:46 PM)

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#1640563 - 01/10/20 12:31 PM Re: Connecting External Effects, any benefit to using DIF-AT [Re: March]
EdW Offline
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Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Canada
OK, Thanks for those detailed instructions.
That is what I needed.
I'm going to see if I can find an affordable 3card with plugins.

Ed

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#1640567 - 01/10/20 12:58 PM Re: Connecting External Effects, any benefit to using DIF-AT [Re: EdW]
keeppracticing Offline
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Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 1221
Loc: Atlanta
Sent you a pm Ed
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#1640568 - 01/10/20 12:59 PM Re: Connecting External Effects, any benefit to using DIF-AT [Re: EdW]
C Jo Go Online   content
pseudo musician ~●●~
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Registered: 11/05/01
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Loc: carmel valley,ca
We opted for 3- TC M-ONE XL ( about $100 ) with lots of flexibility ++ and quality sound. With routing < in the boxes > we can have 6 mono sends over at the VS2480.
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#1640569 - 01/10/20 01:04 PM Re: Connecting External Effects, any benefit to using DIF-AT [Re: EdW]
March Offline
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Registered: 04/26/99
Posts: 2045
Loc: IA
There are two types of effects board for the VS 2480: the VS8v2 (the unit accepts four and each has around 200 effects--also fully compatible with the vs 1840) or the VS8v3 which includes plugins as well and is much more expensive.

Your unit may already have the VS8v2 (it came with at least two, if memory serves). On the VS, press "Effects" button under the display and you will see how many of the eight slots are taken by effects. You might want to experiment with them first. You might find that they are perfectly acceptable for what you are trying to accomplish.

The VS8v3 include such plug ins as a Massennburg eq, etc. on a separate disk, I think. I never felt like I really needed them.

A VS8V2 expansion board is 'plug and play'. You can still find one for around 80 bucks and can mount them quite easily yourself. First, you need to check how many your already have--you might have all of them already

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#1640580 - 01/10/20 03:45 PM Re: Connecting External Effects, any benefit to using DIF-AT [Re: March]
EdW Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Canada
The TC M.One Xl sounds like a pretty good option and the prices are cheap,
good to know that they have quality sound as I have never used one.
The AE 7000 and external effects sounds like a good option too...that just connects to the VS-2480 with the 25 pin RBUS cable?
I do have two 3 cards and two 2 cards in the one VS-2480 but the only non Roland plugin I have is the Auto tune.
I was mainly thinking of trying some different reverbs but the other plugins sound like they would be very useful too.
I will have a TC M2000 soon and I am considering another 3 card with the plugins so I will be able to do some experimenting.
I recently got a second 2480 just incase my other one had trouble and it only has two 2 cards so it would be nice to have a loaded 3 card in there.

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#1640684 - 01/12/20 09:36 AM Re: Connecting External Effects, any benefit to using DIF-AT [Re: EdW]
C Jo Go Online   content
pseudo musician ~●●~
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Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 26665
Loc: carmel valley,ca
I had PCM Lexicons ```` TC 2000 ```` VS cards -- sold them all for the M One XL --- so easy to move around in & with 200 presets > you can always find something to tweak to your mix perfections .. Yes, you need the Rbus and AE 7000 ...

Edited by C Jo Go (01/12/20 09:36 AM)
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