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#1644644 - 02/17/20 06:13 PM Call It Sleep
Webster Offline
Blue Roots
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Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 9419
I call it: awake.

I'm 51. In the last several years my sleep quality and duration has deteriorated considerably. It's now to the point where some nights - most nights - I just lay there all night. With my thoughts. A racing mind that will not go quiet. It's not a problem if I medicate with alcohol. Which, for a very long time, has been my way. But I've jumped on the wagon recently (weed and alcohol) and now I'm struggling to get even a little bit of decent rest.

The over the counter stuff makes me drowsy and does induce some rest. But even with that - I can't seem to get deeply asleep. And then I'm drowsy and half a man the next day. I hate that shit - a cloudy mind that lingers through the next day. As a busy, physically active small business owner that wears a lot of hats - it is imperative that I somehow find a solution. I can't allow my business to suffer.

I haven't talked to my doctor about it. Yet. I hate taking drugs (other than the ones mentioned above - I love those \:\) ) and assume that's the direction he'll go. I guess I need to talk to him about it.

I've been deliberately eating earlier and eating less at dinner, taking melatonin at or before bed time, and laying down early and reading. It's helped. A little. But fuck..... this is killin me.

Anyway - what has your experience been? Tips, tricks, best practices? Any advice, experience, suggestions, anecdotes.... all welcome.

Thanks for hearing me. Getting desperate.

If you're not interested in any of that - I'll at least share the source of my thread title. Which also may or may not be your thang:

_________________________
You can call me Dave. Or David. Or Webster.

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#1644655 - 02/17/20 07:54 PM Re: Call It Sleep [Re: Webster]
Spikerama Offline
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Registered: 05/06/02
Posts: 3985
Loc: Oklahoma
Of course, no tea, pop, caffeine after six for me. My normal sleep pattern is asleep around 11pm and awake at 5am with one or two hours awake in the middle. I feel fine the next day so I'm okay with that.

Good luck.
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#1644656 - 02/17/20 08:18 PM Re: Call It Sleep [Re: Spikerama]
flatcat Administrator Offline
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Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 25172
Loc: Westborough, MA, USA
I've been exhausted for months. I have a lot of difficulty sleeping. Then I get so tired I just crash.

I have been taking naps in the middle of the day for about a half hour, 40 minutes. That helps. Exercise doesn't help me so much because I'm always stiff and sore afterwards.
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#1644657 - 02/17/20 08:36 PM Re: Call It Sleep [Re: flatcat]
pbrowne Offline
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Registered: 06/11/99
Posts: 5262
Loc: Loveland,CO,USA
i'm 70 - i don't sleep any more than 3-4 hrs at a time.

i usually fall back asleep but sometimes not.

in the last year or so i've gotten into the habit of taking a nap (1 - 1.5 hr) every day and it seems to help.

don't feel like the lone ranger - i think as most folks age their quality of sleep lessens.

what a drag it is getting old.
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#1644659 - 02/17/20 08:57 PM Re: Call It Sleep [Re: pbrowne]
grachus Offline
Planeteer/Artist # 92
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Registered: 01/10/00
Posts: 10737
Loc: burlington ont, canada
im 60 jeez.
anyway sleep has been missing a lot lately..some YouTube site says im waking at 3 am because my spiritual awaking is calling..they probably want money...but back to sleep..ya well I use to write in a diary at night but over the years it has turned into the same diatribe of shitting on my lack of accomplishments( in my judgement) on my life or day to day activities..
...I realize I needed to change that (in therapy) as I need to turn that writing time into more of a plan to achieve and acknowledging the days successes...it has helped... I am able to sleep more when I know the next day coming I will be able to do things and the day past has been done with some achievements no matter how small it seems. I cleaned the paperwork in the studio tonight and planned the recording for this week...nice.. the small goals....
also I try to get a walk in every day if im not working construction....im too tired if I put in a full day....also I find I am staying away from tv...movies and YouTube but trying to avoid hours of tv slouching and chips and beer nights...trying to get more recording done too.
in the summer I swim which really helps..I had planned to swim at the local public swimming pool but I haven't been yet...work or other things...scheduling... but if you don't have a pool ..yoga helps...I did a hot yoga class for a month...very hard to do all the moves but the chicks in yoga pants kept me going...

Im not sure reading is helping as its firing up the brain..it might be better to meditate..try and go through all those thoughts and let them go try for five minutes just relaxing those thoughts ..let them go and just concentrate on the big picture of the world... the oohmm and letting go of your thoughts...then prepare yourself for sleep recognizing your body's tensions and releasing them.. then lie down to sleep knowing you are prepared for the next day with clarity and rest.

its worth a try. forget the drugs you already gave up the ones you like ,for now, so you don't need the chemical mess. I say your mind needs to be listened too. you have a lot on your mind.

oh and write a song about this.
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#1644667 - 02/17/20 09:30 PM Re: Call It Sleep [Re: grachus]
Ismellelephant Offline
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Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 29623
Interesting. The only time I can't sleep is when something is bothering me or like Webster, a racing mind. It is rare to have trouble sleeping but I can usually think of something relaxing like lying on a beach on a warm day.
I can see if having anxiety about sleeping would create sleep difficulties in itself.
Taking something to help sleep wouldn't be something I would ever do.
I always got by with little sleep though, 4 to 6 hours for most of my working life.
Oddly now that I am retired I am closer to 8 hours sleep and see no difference.
And naps? Taking a nap during the day would screw me up, I've tried it, just doesn't work for me.
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#1644669 - 02/17/20 09:51 PM Re: Call It Sleep [Re: Webster]
Infinitymobile Offline
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Registered: 05/24/11
Posts: 10554
Loc: Kansas City
You and I are really close in age and I too struggle with sleeping but have my whole life. My biggest problem was (for the longest time) that I didn't want to go to sleep because I knew that once I did.....I was officially 'one day closer to death'......oddly...the older I get...the less I thin about that for some reason?????

I have been with my wife for about 28 years and for the longest time.....she has been trying to get me to go to bed when she did.....between 9 and 11. I always resisted for the reason stated above. But over the past 2 years I have made a concerted effort to change my sleeping habits and it is working for me. I use to go to bed around 4ish but over the past 2 years have worked it back to between 10 and 1 (on a typical day). I use to sleep until 10 (at the earliest) or 11 or 12 (getting up to take care of kid shit....breakfast...school run etc) but always going back to sleep when I was done. But since August of 2019....I have been getting up on school days at 6:25 and not going back to sleep (most days).

That being said....I do drink alcohol most days and I smoke weed daily but I did that before as well. I do wake up usually once or twice a night so I rarely sleep for more than 2 to 4 hours at a time. When I wake up in the middle of the night I get up and smoke a little weed and go back to bed.

So unfortunately, I don't have any advice other than weed and alcohol but for what it is worth....I think many of us (musical/artistic types) share your experience. Wish I had more to offer you!
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#1644672 - 02/17/20 10:22 PM Re: Call It Sleep [Re: Infinitymobile]
The Vampire Lestat Offline
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Registered: 01/09/00
Posts: 3897
I struggle, because my work schedule is early, but the band schedule is really, really late. Every week, I'm switching back and forth.

I have always been a night owl, even as a kid. I just could not fall asleep early. I probably push myself too much, but I just stay up until I think there's a chance that I'll fall asleep. If I go to bed early, I will just sit there, wide awake.

I suspect that alcohol is bad for us. One thing that I have found to help with falling asleep is exercise. It wasn't like this when I was in my 20's. I've been getting back to the gym alot, and I find that on the weight training days, I am really tired afterwards. If I stay up to a realistic hour (not too early), I fall asleep pretty fast.


Edited by The Vampire Lestat (02/17/20 10:23 PM)

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#1644683 - 02/18/20 12:32 AM Re: Call It Sleep [Re: The Vampire Lestat]
Dan Barnes Offline
I sing, I love, I love to sing.
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Registered: 04/16/99
Posts: 15342
Loc: Joshua Tree, CA USA
I tend to fall asleep quickly, then wake up in an hour or two, stay awake and read for an hour or so, then back to sleep usually. Once a month or so I'll have a completely sleepless night which sucks.

When I'm smoking marijuana, which I fart around with every several months, I have NO trouble sleeping, but I have to be careful with pot. I have a problem with it in that I'll smoke it until it's gone. Wake and Bake, all day and into the night. I think I told you before that I got caught for THC in my urine with a random test at work. Had to do the whole rehab bit, same as alcohol or any other drug addiction. It was no fun, but I learned a lot about myself, so it was no waste.

But yeah. Indica, baby.
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#1644690 - 02/18/20 04:57 AM Re: Call It Sleep [Re: The Vampire Lestat]
flatcat Administrator Offline
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Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 25172
Loc: Westborough, MA, USA
 Originally Posted By: The Vampire Lestat
I struggle, because my work schedule is early, but the band schedule is really, really late. Every week, I'm switching back and forth.

I have always been a night owl, even as a kid. I just could not fall asleep early. I probably push myself too much, but I just stay up until I think there's a chance that I'll fall asleep. If I go to bed early, I will just sit there, wide awake.

I suspect that alcohol is bad for us. One thing that I have found to help with falling asleep is exercise. It wasn't like this when I was in my 20's. I've been getting back to the gym alot, and I find that on the weight training days, I am really tired afterwards. If I stay up to a realistic hour (not too early), I fall asleep pretty fast.


I used to be this way, but now ... I get up earlier now than I ever did. Though part of it has been for me one of the medications I am taking now really just ... wrecks me. I yawn all day. That's the only reason I take a nap in the afternoon - well, OK, that and because I am able to right now since I'm in language study. If I was in my normal office setting, that wouldn't work for me. As it is, I set an alarm, pull the hood of my hoodie over my eyes, and I am usually successful in conking out.

I should do more cardio, but I only lift. On lifting days, while I am usually pretty tired, I actually have more trouble sleeping because my body is mad at me, especially on heavy lift day. It's that sort-of achy, little tears thing, and it keeps me up. I should probably just take some ibuprofen and be done with it, but I don't like taking the pills I take, and I don't want more.

On the other hand, some days after lifting, I get back, sit down and start studying, and pass out. I've "napped" on those days for 3-4 hours because I am so spent.

I hardly drink at all any more. I haven't smoked in 20-something years and won't again unless something goes really really haywire with my health. For me I don't like how I feel the next day after doing either of those things. Maybe a glass of wine or a margarita or something, but I really try and take it easy with alcohol. Nothing wrong with either, it's just my personal reaction to that stuff. Even with prescription medicine, I tend to really react strongly, and often need to ratchet back my dosage from where my doctors want them to be because of the side effects. I think I'm just sensitive to those types of things.
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Professor Truth T. Sweetness says,"Mind your manners!"

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#1644693 - 02/18/20 06:49 AM Re: Call It Sleep [Re: flatcat]
Spikerama Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 05/06/02
Posts: 3985
Loc: Oklahoma
Another thing...

No TV or video games in the bedroom.

You are supposed to condition yourself so that you DO NOT associate your bedroom with activities like video games or watching TV.
_________________________
My Soundcloud page

MySpace instrumentals

Chicken Pickin' and other assorted videos (Youtube)

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#1644695 - 02/18/20 07:44 AM Re: Call It Sleep [Re: Spikerama]
kendall Offline
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Registered: 02/10/02
Posts: 7069
Loc: amsterdam, netherlands
Consult a hypnotherapist who could show you how and help in the first stages of self hypnosis. It certainly works for sleep plus many other things.
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#1644696 - 02/18/20 08:31 AM Re: Call It Sleep [Re: kendall]
Webster Offline
Blue Roots
Planeteer


Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 9419
Thanks for the comments. I'm early on with trying to find a fix so I think I'll read, research more, and probably go talk to my doctor about it. I'm optimistic.

Last night was a pretty good night. \:\)
_________________________
You can call me Dave. Or David. Or Webster.

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#1644700 - 02/18/20 09:51 AM Re: Call It Sleep [Re: Webster]
Marty Gilman Offline
Official Planet Sax Monster - Planeteer/Artist # 117
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Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 23342
Loc: Palm Beach, Florida- U S A
Reading all the posts above and I can empathize. Sleep is so important. I do remember hearing a few friends talk about melatonin I suggest you check that out. One thing that I do is keep a notepad by the side of the bed so if I think of something in the middle of the night I will write it down rather than fixate on it.

Another thing to do is have yourself tested for sleep apnea. I have that and it’s serious. If you have a neck size 18 inches or bigger, chances are you will have sleep apnea

-m
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#1644703 - 02/18/20 10:42 AM Re: Call It Sleep [Re: Marty Gilman]
BmC Offline
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Registered: 04/10/01
Posts: 2907
Loc: Bear River, Nova Scotia, Canad...
"I'm 51. In the last several years my sleep quality and duration has deteriorated considerably. It's now to the point where some nights - most nights - I just lay there all night. With my thoughts. A racing mind that will not go quiet. It's not a problem if I medicate with alcohol. Which, for a very long time, has been my way."


Dude, fuck the alcohol, you need to get a good indica strain, Purple Kush would be my recommendation. Infuse that shit with coconut oil, take a teaspoon of that at bedtime, you will sleep like a fucking baby and wake with a full diaper, right around 10am. I kid you not. One of the best uses for weed. Insomnia. Guaranteed!

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#1644704 - 02/18/20 10:54 AM Re: Call It Sleep [Re: BmC]
Webster Offline
Blue Roots
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Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 9419
 Originally Posted By: BmC
"I'm 51. In the last several years my sleep quality and duration has deteriorated considerably. It's now to the point where some nights - most nights - I just lay there all night. With my thoughts. A racing mind that will not go quiet. It's not a problem if I medicate with alcohol. Which, for a very long time, has been my way."


Dude, fuck the alcohol, you need to get a good indica strain, Purple Kush would be my recommendation. Infuse that shit with coconut oil, take a teaspoon of that at bedtime, you will sleep like a fucking baby and wake with a full diaper, right around 10am. I kid you not. One of the best uses for weed. Insomnia. Guaranteed!


Thank you.... but:

 Originally Posted By: Webster
But I've jumped on the wagon recently (weed and alcohol)


;\)


I don't plan on a long wagon ride - but I have my reasons - and they're the right ones. ;\)
_________________________
You can call me Dave. Or David. Or Webster.

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#1644706 - 02/18/20 11:09 AM Re: Call It Sleep [Re: Webster]
C Jo Go Offline
pseudo musician ~●¿●~
Loquacious Planeteer


Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 26143
Loc: carmel valley,ca
I really don't need a lot of sleep --- once you retire --it seems like a waste. :-) You remember those early days you had to get up and you dream of the time > that sleep would be @ your own clock,, ;\)


My wife has a liver disease = autoimmune -- so she has reversal sleep.. Usually falls asleep about 3-4 AM ..


Exercise helps in a big way --- at least by 12-1 AM I get sleepy. Swimming about 45 min ...treadmill for 3 miles (an hour) --


Edited by C Jo Go (02/18/20 06:53 PM)
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#1644709 - 02/18/20 11:15 AM Re: Call It Sleep [Re: Webster]
Ismellelephant Offline
Self Portrait
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Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 29623
 Originally Posted By: Webster
 Originally Posted By: BmC
"I'm 51. In the last several years my sleep quality and duration has deteriorated considerably. It's now to the point where some nights - most nights - I just lay there all night. With my thoughts. A racing mind that will not go quiet. It's not a problem if I medicate with alcohol. Which, for a very long time, has been my way."


Dude, fuck the alcohol, you need to get a good indica strain, Purple Kush would be my recommendation. Infuse that shit with coconut oil, take a teaspoon of that at bedtime, you will sleep like a fucking baby and wake with a full diaper, right around 10am. I kid you not. One of the best uses for weed. Insomnia. Guaranteed!


Thank you.... but:

 Originally Posted By: Webster
But I've jumped on the wagon recently (weed and alcohol)


;\)


I don't plan on a long wagon ride - but I have my reasons - and they're the right ones. ;\)


I guess you don't want a "full diaper"?
_________________________
Trump Quote “Just remember, what you’re seeing and what you’re reading is not what’s happening."

Donald Rumsfeld Quote "If it were a fact, it wouldn't be called intelligence."

Smelly...STFU...got that?

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#1644717 - 02/18/20 11:47 AM Re: Call It Sleep [Re: Ismellelephant]
BmC Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/10/01
Posts: 2907
Loc: Bear River, Nova Scotia, Canad...
"I don't plan on a long wagon ride - but I have my reasons - and they're the right ones. ;\)"

absolutely.

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#1644733 - 02/18/20 01:09 PM Re: Call It Sleep [Re: BmC]
Mooseboy Offline
Guitar Guy
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Registered: 04/24/99
Posts: 28359
Loc: Tite
Here's another area on which I unfortunately have experience. A couple of years ago I got into a non-sleep rhythm. Tried all kinds of meds and my regular MD wasn't able to dial in on what I needed.

Luckily, a friend of mine recommended an MD who specializes in sleep. The right combination of sleep therapy and pharma snapped me out of my insomnia phase.
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#1644816 - 02/19/20 12:20 PM Re: Call It Sleep [Re: Mooseboy]
Mooseboy Offline
Guitar Guy
Loquacious Planeteer


Registered: 04/24/99
Posts: 28359
Loc: Tite
And, for what it's worth, my sleep MD told me that Melatonin doesn't act like one might think. His recommendation is that 1 mg. is the correct dose for most people, and anything higher can have the opposite effect.

Before I went to him, I was taking 5 mg., and then 10 mg. when the 5s didn't seem to work. Went down to the 1s as per the doctor, learned to take them about 1 1/2 hours before bedtime, and mannnnn Iiiiiii ammmm drowwwwsyyy when I hit the sack.
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#1644823 - 02/19/20 12:53 PM Re: Call It Sleep [Re: Mooseboy]
Webster Offline
Blue Roots
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Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 9419
Thanks. Did not know that.
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You can call me Dave. Or David. Or Webster.

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#1644850 - 02/19/20 04:10 PM Re: Call It Sleep [Re: Webster]
Mooseboy Offline
Guitar Guy
Loquacious Planeteer


Registered: 04/24/99
Posts: 28359
Loc: Tite
Hey Webster, if you want to have a private conversation about this, feel free to pm me.
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"Probably and — I mean, definitely —" Fat Donny, March 2020

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#1644867 - 02/19/20 05:22 PM Re: Call It Sleep [Re: Mooseboy]
Dave Morris Offline
Planeteer/Artist # 75
Planeteer


Registered: 02/15/02
Posts: 16066
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Wow, I thought I was the only one. I have never slept much, my whole life. Maybe 3or 4 hours of broken sleep, max. Never used to bother me, but as I get older, it does now. I won’t take sleep medication, because it then becomes an addiction. I don’t take drugs and only moderate alcohol.
It’s the old racing brain thing.
I found a solution that works for me
Sleep headphones. Google them. I listen to music all night. I fall asleep quickly listening to the music. I wake up in the night usually because the headphones had shifted in the night and I can’t hear the music anymore. I readjust them, and fall back to sleep again.
I now don’t go anywhere without them. They are indispensable to me. I am still not a great sleeper , but at least I no longer spend hours trying to fall asleep. I fall asleep within 5 minutes

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#1644874 - 02/19/20 05:41 PM Re: Call It Sleep [Re: Dave Morris]
Mooseboy Offline
Guitar Guy
Loquacious Planeteer


Registered: 04/24/99
Posts: 28359
Loc: Tite
Dave, that's great that you found what works for you!
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