#1645074 - 02/21/20 12:52 PM
What do you piano players do for your tone.
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Spikerama
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Registered: 05/06/02
Posts: 4291
Loc: Oklahoma
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Guitar players are always talking about dialing in the tone and being inspired by the tone.
How inspiring is "tone" to a piano player? You don't have any bass, treble, etc. knobs. Do you get on a house piano that you hate and resign yourself to non-inspiration? Are guitar players spoiled and make too much out of tone? As a guitar player, I have to say that tone does inspire.
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#1645075 - 02/21/20 01:15 PM
Re: What do you piano players do for your tone.
[Re: Spikerama]
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HARDDRlVER
Planeteer
Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 1829
Loc: Austin TX.
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I have so many different keyboard sounds that I gave away physical upright piano.
And the fact that there are so many, I don't really take time to adjust anything. There seems to be a sound that fits my desires.
If I was a pro at this like many of you, i might go deeper in my settings.
However, Grachus has a piano sound from his Christmas tune that I just drooled over.
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#1645077 - 02/21/20 01:24 PM
Re: What do you piano players do for your tone.
[Re: HARDDRlVER]
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Marty Gilman
Official Planet Sax Monster - Planeteer/Artist # 117
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Loc: Palm Beach, Florida- U S A
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I also have numerous controls between the keyboards themselves, EQ, etc. I often change piano sounds fior the room I am playing, depending on acoustics. in a dead room I use a more fully sounding piano than a live room, where I cut back on the bottom end.
I am not so nuts about tone as many guitar players are. I am more concerned with voicing, choice of notes, etc.
No pedals are used by me to affect tone.
-m
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Can you play that an octave louder?
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#1645092 - 02/21/20 05:15 PM
Re: What do you piano players do for your tone.
[Re: Marty Gilman]
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motown59
Planeteer/Artist # 238
Planeteer
Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 17848
Loc: California
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I'm using the Billy Joel, CaroleKing and Alicia '88' Keys presets in my piano Modeling amp. It's the BoseEndorphin 100x
I love the So Far Away reverb sound on the Carole King preset. It's got less decay time than the Joel "Longest time" hall patch
Edited by motown59 (02/21/20 05:23 PM)
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kel
"I love what you guys are trying to do up there" ...from an audience member at one of my gigs.
Gear: Fender Medium pick
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#1645095 - 02/21/20 05:36 PM
Re: What do you piano players do for your tone.
[Re: motown59]
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Jazzooo
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 55387
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
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I usually record acoustic piano. I find that my touch can adjust to the instrument and I’m usually satisfied.
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#1645097 - 02/21/20 05:39 PM
Re: What do you piano players do for your tone.
[Re: motown59]
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Xenophile
Planeteer
Registered: 09/27/00
Posts: 19113
Loc: Sacramento, CA, USA
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For my gigging rig, I usually have two "go-to" acoustic piano patches that I have tweaked to my liking. One bright, like a Yamaha C7 grand for cutting through a band playing rock or jazz, and a darker, Steinway-like sound for ballads or solo piano stuff. Sometimes I'll layer in a pad to fill the sound out some more. I'll use more or less reverb depending on the room and sometimes the type of tune. If I change my monitor system I'll certainly be tweaking the EQ. When I use in-ears, I tweak very little, since it usually sounds wonderful to me.
But it seems like the OP is talking about real acoustic pianos, where you might get stuck with a crappy "house piano." I really can't remember when I've had to play a house piano apart from back when I used to play with my college big band, and we'd travel to play at some university jazz festival or something like that, and then there was always a fine Yamaha or Steinway in a recital hall or auditorium.
But what does any other acoustic instrument player do? Piano, violin, acoustic guitar, horns, percussion... None of those have bass and treble knobs or effect presets. You tune your instrument and you just learn to play it.
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#1645109 - 02/21/20 06:34 PM
Re: What do you piano players do for your tone.
[Re: Xenophile]
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Ismellelephant
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 55963
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Xenophile you run directly, no amp involved?
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#1645111 - 02/21/20 06:36 PM
Re: What do you piano players do for your tone.
[Re: Xenophile]
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C Jo Go
EMERITUS ~ VS Roland
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Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 36521
Loc: carmel valley,ca
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With a acoustic one -- its moving the stereo mics on the board -- and blending the room mic -- then EQ gingerly .
But the Kurzweil samples seem to sit nicely in any mix ...( just play with 900 hz and touch of high end.. )
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#1645116 - 02/21/20 06:46 PM
Re: What do you piano players do for your tone.
[Re: Ismellelephant]
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Xenophile
Planeteer
Registered: 09/27/00
Posts: 19113
Loc: Sacramento, CA, USA
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Xenophile you run directly, no amp involved?
Depends on the venue and what we've got for FOH.
If we have a good PA I'll just use my in-ears on stage, and have the sound guy give the rest of the band some keys in their monitors.
Otherwise, I have a pair of powered JBL 12" PA cabinets that easily get me where I need to be.
_________________________
"Bobby, I'm sorry you got a head like a potato. I really am."
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#1645117 - 02/21/20 06:47 PM
Re: What do you piano players do for your tone.
[Re: C Jo Go]
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C Jo Go
EMERITUS ~ VS Roland
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 36521
Loc: carmel valley,ca
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Ultra bright Yamaha --- dual 414's and ceiling mics ( AKG C 1000 ) for room ..
_________________________
Pretend creates an endless dream
**( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡° )**
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#1645118 - 02/21/20 06:52 PM
Re: What do you piano players do for your tone.
[Re: C Jo Go]
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Marty Gilman
Official Planet Sax Monster - Planeteer/Artist # 117
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Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 26524
Loc: Palm Beach, Florida- U S A
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I do the same as Xeno with the JBL powered speakers.
I wish I could have a keyboard guy play my rig while I went out in the audience and listened.
Hell, even better, every gig should have a sound guy, a good sound guy!
-m
_________________________
Can you play that an octave louder?
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#1645141 - 02/21/20 09:45 PM
Re: What do you piano players do for your tone.
[Re: E Beau]
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Slabraton
Planeteer
Registered: 12/16/12
Posts: 16566
Loc: California
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I've only got one piano to worry about: the 12 foot grand piano at my church. It doesn't really need to be louder but it does need to be permanently miced for recording. I was thinking about getting a PZM microphone for it. Anybody have any suggestions?
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#1645142 - 02/21/20 09:51 PM
Re: What do you piano players do for your tone.
[Re: Slabraton]
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motown59
Planeteer/Artist # 238
Planeteer
Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 17848
Loc: California
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A Kawai digi with two QSC K8.2 powered speakers has been the best Piano sound I've heard in a live band context. Conversely, I can't seem to ever like the Nord piano sounds.
Two powered PA speakers is common. I've yet to hear the Aspen Pitman amp that Doug has but the reviews are favorable
Edited by motown59 (02/21/20 09:52 PM)
_________________________
kel
"I love what you guys are trying to do up there" ...from an audience member at one of my gigs.
Gear: Fender Medium pick
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#1645148 - 02/21/20 10:43 PM
Re: What do you piano players do for your tone.
[Re: motown59]
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Xenophile
Planeteer
Registered: 09/27/00
Posts: 19113
Loc: Sacramento, CA, USA
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I've yet to hear the Aspen Pitman amp that Doug has but the reviews are favorable
I have one, and I don't like it for stereo piano or other sampled/modeled acoustic instrument sounds. Anything that is panned right or left comes through the side speaker, while anything panned center comes through the center speaker. I'm really not sure if this is what is referred to as "mid-side" processing.
Anyway, most stereo piano samples are usually panned with the lower notes to one side, and the higher notes to the other. So this monitor puts all the low and high notes out the side speaker, and all the middle range notes out the center. It just sounds unnatural to me and I have to EQ the piss out of it to get a sound that I like. EPs, organs and synth sounds are pretty good, though.
Doug has said that he really likes his, and that surprises me since he's a real acoustic pianist. I would have thought that processing would bother him, too. Danny Barnes also has one of these amps, and as far as I know, he likes it too.
For me, I use it as a handy, space-saving (and way too expensive) practice amp, but I don't use it on gigs.
If somebody wants it, PM me and maybe we can work something out.
_________________________
"Bobby, I'm sorry you got a head like a potato. I really am."
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#1645152 - 02/21/20 11:25 PM
Re: What do you piano players do for your tone.
[Re: Xenophile]
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Alan
Nice guy! Cuddly Alan
Planeteer
Registered: 01/30/00
Posts: 7934
Loc: Sauchie, Scotland, UK
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I'm a big fan of the "shove the whole tone argument up yer arse" camp argument or argument camp YMMV.
Regardless of the the instrument, if the sound makes the hairs on your neck prickle, you have found 'something!'
PLEASE! Don't waste time becoming paralyzed by looking for someone else's something!
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#1645153 - 02/21/20 11:30 PM
Re: What do you piano players do for your tone.
[Re: Xenophile]
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Jazzooo
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 55387
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
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Xeno— There is a caveat with that amp, the spacestation. If you are standing closer than 6 feet, it doesn’t sound particularly great. But if you’ve ever had someone play your rig while you’re out in the audience, I doubt you would be saying what you’re saying. It’s audio VUDU. The piano sounds clear and natural, and sounds like organs and since just fill the room in a natural way.
By the same token, if a musician is standing to the left of the amp it could be quite loud. I always try to put it in a corner or far enough away from myself and the drummer.
Let me make one suggestion before you get rid of it – put it on a guitar amp stand with the side speaker firing downward the distance rule still applies but it’s not quite as serious. It will make zero difference out in the audience. But it should help with the proximity to yourself and other players.
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#1645156 - 02/21/20 11:51 PM
Re: What do you piano players do for your tone.
[Re: Jazzooo]
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Xenophile
Planeteer
Registered: 09/27/00
Posts: 19113
Loc: Sacramento, CA, USA
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If you are standing closer than 6 feet, it doesn’t sound particularly great.
...
By the same token, if a musician is standing to the left of the amp it could be quite loud.
...
Let me make one suggestion before you get rid of it – put it on a guitar amp stand with the side speaker firing downward the distance rule still applies but it’s not quite as serious.
Agreed that it sounds better farther away, but I've found that I have to be at least 15 or 20 feet away. Not practical for most of my gigs.
I've tried the amp stand thing. Also putting it on top of a subwoofer, horizontal or vertical, with/without an amp stand.
Putting it in a corner helps.
Have you tried listening to pre-recorded music through it? The signal processing does really strange things to it. I have it set up at home, about 15 feet from me and in a corner. I was working on learning a Little Feat tune... Let It Roll. This amp made it REALLY difficult, with parts that are clearly audible through "regular" stereo speakers being made practically inaudible. Vocals and horn parts are buried with weird phase cancellation... I had to turn it off and go back to headphones. If you've heard that track, it gets pretty dense with boogie-woogie piano often doubling the bass, organ, horns... and I'm trying to cover all that stuff.
_________________________
"Bobby, I'm sorry you got a head like a potato. I really am."
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#1645157 - 02/21/20 11:54 PM
Re: What do you piano players do for your tone.
[Re: Alan]
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Slabraton
Planeteer
Registered: 12/16/12
Posts: 16566
Loc: California
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I'm a big fan of the "shove the whole tone argument up yer arse" camp argument or argument camp YMMV.
Regardless of the the instrument, if the sound makes the hairs on your neck prickle, you have found 'something!'
PLEASE! Don't waste time becoming paralyzed by looking for someone else's something!
Help me out here. I can't seem to remember if you play the theremin or the didgeridoo.
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#1645159 - 02/22/20 12:59 AM
Re: What do you piano players do for your tone.
[Re: Slabraton]
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Jazzooo
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 55387
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
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I've listened to pre-recorded music through it, but from a distance and it sounded fine.
_________________________
Dougrobinson.com
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#1645164 - 02/22/20 02:50 AM
Re: What do you piano players do for your tone.
[Re: Jazzooo]
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Popmann
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 33081
Loc: Twangville, TN
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I feel like on some level I shouldn't answer this, as "piano player" is generous for me....but, I would bet if I inventoried my PC, I have 5 Wurlis, 5 Rhodes, and 5 acoustic pianos samples.
....and I demo'd a LOT....that's just what I ended up buying/keeping. And while I know I SHOULD strip that down....I also know that when it comes to EPs, I have one in nearly every tune on this record--and I'm not sure I used the same one twice. I also know a lot of guy don't even do the due diligence I do...and have drives FULL of keyboard sounds. I'm just narrow. I literally considered buying some old EPs and never using a digital instrument again....but, then I really like putting strings on stuff....and....slippery slope. If I had it to do all over? A decade back? I'd buy a nice Wurli student model (with the amp attached)...and go about my work--all analog. Maybe a Rhodes Suitcase instead....dunno--whatever I found that "spoke to me"....just call that "my EP sound".
Instead, I'm a wealth of info on all the latest emulations of EPs....ehh.... #time
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#1645166 - 02/22/20 03:23 AM
Re: What do you piano players do for your tone.
[Re: Popmann]
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Popmann
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 33081
Loc: Twangville, TN
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I just looked. Curious.
4 Wurli, 4 Rhodes, 3 acoustic pianos....and then the Kronos has all three covered, too.
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#1645172 - 02/22/20 04:37 AM
Re: What do you piano players do for your tone.
[Re: Alan]
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Ismellelephant
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 55963
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I'm a big fan of the "shove the whole tone argument up yer arse" camp argument or argument camp YMMV.
Regardless of the the instrument, if the sound makes the hairs on your neck prickle, you have found 'something!'
PLEASE! Don't waste time becoming paralyzed by looking for someone else's something!
That sounds like it needs an original thought.
_________________________
We're all gonna lose an eye!!!
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#1645650 - 02/27/20 01:52 AM
Re: What do you piano players do for your tone.
[Re: Ismellelephant]
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Starliner
Planeteer
Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 3173
Loc: Florida - Dunnellon
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I have the Aspen Pittman amp myself. As far as home studio use, IMO, (in my home) it's not too impressive. I haven't yet tried the guitar stand to get it to reflect, but plan to do that. I also have not used it playing out. In most other positions, it doesn't sound much different than other amps. While I have moved it around in the room (and in a second room), I guess I'll need to really seek out the "sweet spot" to appreciate the amp.
I also got the Ventilator II pedal, but haven't yet figured out how to shut off the internal Leslie and vibrato on my Motif XF8... with two Leslie sims running, even on slow, it's just too weird to listen to. Haven't tried it yet on my other keyboards (8 total). I think I have plenty of options, tone-wise, with all the keyboards. Haven't experimented with the virtual ones yet.
Medical issues been kicking my butt.
Starliner
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#1645769 - 02/28/20 02:11 AM
Re: What do you piano players do for your tone.
[Re: Starliner]
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grachus
Planeteer/Artist # 92
Planeteer
Registered: 01/10/00
Posts: 11908
Loc: burlington ont, canada
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I must say tone and touch is what drives my piano playing fun. I really got a kick from hardcover loving my piano sound so much ..its the Roland Juno ds 88 I own..lovely recording sooooo many sounds and fun and recording with it is great.
I have a older mini grand young chang and its a tough basturd sometimes and other nights after a scotch or two is light and refreshing..playing acoustic in a nice room is always inspiring...I go to my wife sister home every once in a while she has a lovely Yamaha grand in a big hall its so light compared to my piano and it is inspiring to play for quickness and light fun..I think the biggest thing is practice however as a few days away from the piano and I become a fat finger blob
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#1645773 - 02/28/20 02:39 AM
Re: What do you piano players do for your tone.
[Re: grachus]
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Xenophile
Planeteer
Registered: 09/27/00
Posts: 19113
Loc: Sacramento, CA, USA
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I go to my wife sister home every once in a while she has a lovely Yamaha grand in a big hall
Whoa! Sounds like your sister-in-law is pretty well off!
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"Bobby, I'm sorry you got a head like a potato. I really am."
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