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#1651404 - 04/03/20 06:20 PM Doing Tiny Desk Concerts 13 years ahead of when they were "invented"
Mooseboy Offline
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Here's a video from 1995:

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#1651405 - 04/03/20 06:23 PM Re: Doing Tiny Desk Concerts 13 years ahead of when they were "invented" [Re: Mooseboy]
motown59 Offline
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hey, thats pretty cool. Fun
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#1651413 - 04/03/20 06:38 PM Re: Doing Tiny Desk Concerts 13 years ahead of when they were "invented" [Re: motown59]
Mooseboy Offline
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I really liked playing that song. Too bad we haven't done it since about '97 or so. I'll bet your trio would knock that one out of the park.
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#1651460 - 04/04/20 10:44 AM Re: Doing Tiny Desk Concerts 13 years ahead of when they were "invented" [Re: Mooseboy]
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Sounds kind of extreme.

Nicely done. Dug that song. Been a long while since I heard it!

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#1651473 - 04/04/20 11:43 AM Re: Doing Tiny Desk Concerts 13 years ahead of when they were "invented" [Re: ulank]
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#1651477 - 04/04/20 11:48 AM Re: Doing Tiny Desk Concerts 13 years ahead of when they were "invented" [Re: C Jo Go]
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Thought it was a version of "Magic Bus" - -when it started .. Nice job
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#1651593 - 04/04/20 10:18 PM Re: Doing Tiny Desk Concerts 13 years ahead of when they were "invented" [Re: C Jo Go]
Mooseboy Offline
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At 02:08, the guy says, "Mic the center of the guitar amp speaker…"

Who the hell is this guy? And why didn't he learn shit about micing a guitar amp?
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#1651598 - 04/04/20 10:28 PM Re: Doing Tiny Desk Concerts 13 years ahead of when they were "invented" [Re: Mooseboy]
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Some of those tiny desk recordings sound okay. Some of them sound like there is a newbie on the board and the sources are turned down or off. Just my 2 cents.
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#1651614 - 04/05/20 01:00 AM Re: Doing Tiny Desk Concerts 13 years ahead of when they were "invented" [Re: Mooseboy]
motown59 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Mooseboy
At 02:08, the guy says, "Mic the center of the guitar amp speaker…"

Who the hell is this guy? And why didn't he learn shit about micing a guitar amp?


You mean Josh, the guy that’s done Six Hundred of the Tiny desk concerts? I think there are many, many brilliant episodes will excellent sound. If you know what you want to hear, you’ll get results, regardless if the guitar amp mic is two inches away from “knowing shit” vs not. It’s pretty easy to have no investment in a production and yet render a simplistic opinion, while sitting at your computer. The show's results tend to speak for themselves fairly significantly. The shows that someone may not like as much? There can be many factors besides incompetence.


Edited by motown59 (04/05/20 01:03 AM)
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#1651625 - 04/05/20 09:07 AM Re: Doing Tiny Desk Concerts 13 years ahead of when they were "invented" [Re: motown59]
Mooseboy Offline
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Actually my experience comes from doing this for 55 years, reading a LOT of opinions from other professionals, etc.

So kel… when you mic a guitar amp, do you place the mic in the center of the speaker? Really?
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#1651628 - 04/05/20 09:15 AM Re: Doing Tiny Desk Concerts 13 years ahead of when they were "invented" [Re: motown59]
jimmyrock Offline
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 Originally Posted By: motown59
 Originally Posted By: Mooseboy
At 02:08, the guy says, "Mic the center of the guitar amp speaker…"

Who the hell is this guy? And why didn't he learn shit about micing a guitar amp?


You mean Josh, the guy that’s done Six Hundred of the Tiny desk concerts? I think there are many, many brilliant episodes will excellent sound. If you know what you want to hear, you’ll get results, regardless if the guitar amp mic is two inches away from “knowing shit” vs not. It’s pretty easy to have no investment in a production and yet render a simplistic opinion, while sitting at your computer. The show's results tend to speak for themselves fairly significantly. The shows that someone may not like as much? There can be many factors besides incompetence.


i love videos like this, getting to see "under the hood"....ha ha ongoing battyle of stupid in our band "FRONT" of a 609 is the front of the mic that you point at the amp not away....

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#1651629 - 04/05/20 09:18 AM Re: Doing Tiny Desk Concerts 13 years ahead of when they were "invented" [Re: jimmyrock]
Mooseboy Offline
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 Originally Posted By: jimmyrock
ha ha ongoing battyle of stupid in our band "FRONT" of a 609 is the front of the mic that you point at the amp not away....
I had to teach one of my not-so-adept-at-technology buddies about that.
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#1651630 - 04/05/20 09:28 AM Re: Doing Tiny Desk Concerts 13 years ahead of when they were "invented" [Re: Mooseboy]
Mooseboy Offline
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But, come to think of it, this guy looks thirtysomething. He's still learning, so I should cut him a break.
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#1651643 - 04/05/20 10:28 AM Re: Doing Tiny Desk Concerts 13 years ahead of when they were "invented" [Re: Mooseboy]
motown59 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Mooseboy
Actually my experience comes from doing this for 55 years, reading a LOT of opinions from other professionals, etc.

So kel… when you mic a guitar amp, do you place the mic in the center of the speaker? Really?


Hey, what happened to the percentage you made up? That was funny.
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#1651649 - 04/05/20 10:52 AM Re: Doing Tiny Desk Concerts 13 years ahead of when they were "invented" [Re: motown59]
Mooseboy Offline
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So are you avoiding my question, kel? Where do YOU place a mic on a guitar speaker cab?

And are you up for playing something on the collaboration , or are you just here for an argument?

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#1651651 - 04/05/20 10:56 AM Re: Doing Tiny Desk Concerts 13 years ahead of when they were "invented" [Re: Mooseboy]
Mooseboy Offline
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Double post again
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#1651664 - 04/05/20 12:24 PM Re: Doing Tiny Desk Concerts 13 years ahead of when they were "invented" [Re: Mooseboy]
motown59 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Mooseboy
So are you avoiding my question, kel? Where do YOU place a mic on a guitar speaker cab?

And are you up for playing something , or are you just here for an argument?


Those questions aren't really related. The first question's answer is "it depends" which you won't understand.
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kel

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#1651667 - 04/05/20 12:29 PM Re: Doing Tiny Desk Concerts 13 years ahead of when they were "invented" [Re: motown59]
C Jo Go Offline
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A slight angle ---with a ribbon in the room and I split the guitar at its input --- Y ing out a DI to the desk ..

Edited by C Jo Go (04/05/20 12:29 PM)
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#1651678 - 04/05/20 01:31 PM Re: Doing Tiny Desk Concerts 13 years ahead of when they were "invented" [Re: motown59]
Mooseboy Offline
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 Originally Posted By: motown59
The first question's answer is "it depends"
Well fucking duh. Where do you START? The center?

Did you also notice that this genius engineer mics a piano with two mics pointed 90 degrees AWAY from each other? Ever heard of a Blumlein Pair to lower phase decorrelation? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blumlein_pair

Or am I talking above your head again?
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#1651679 - 04/05/20 01:34 PM Re: Doing Tiny Desk Concerts 13 years ahead of when they were "invented" [Re: C Jo Go]
Mooseboy Offline
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 Originally Posted By: C Jo Go
A slight angle ---with a ribbon in the room and I split the guitar at its input --- Y ing out a DI to the desk ..
Now here's a guy that knows what he's talking about.
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#1651741 - 04/05/20 05:00 PM Re: Doing Tiny Desk Concerts 13 years ahead of when they were "invented" [Re: Mooseboy]
motown59 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Mooseboy
 Originally Posted By: motown59
The first question's answer is "it depends"
Well fucking duh. Where do you START? The center?

Did you also notice that this genius engineer mics a piano with two mics pointed 90 degrees AWAY from each other? Ever heard of a Blumlein Pair to lower phase decorrelation? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blumlein_pair

Or am I talking above your head again?


I knew you wouldn't understand.

..and speaking of not really understanding...
You should have quit while you weren't quite ahead before your Blumlein comment, and further insult of the Tiny Desk guy. Hah, over someone's head indeed. Some people know the science, the tech and have actually incorporated various mic'ing techniques, know when to use them in a practical sense. Someone here doesn't and it's not me

you might look up ORTF. I don't suppose you could eyeball the upright piano mic'ing and make a decent guess at the 1/4 wavelength cancellation point. It doesn't really matter all that much anyhow. What you also don't understand is that he's going to sit down at some monitors to mix, and each mic is on it's own track. any of that sink in??
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#1651847 - 04/06/20 10:51 AM Re: Doing Tiny Desk Concerts 13 years ahead of when they were "invented" [Re: motown59]
Mooseboy Offline
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Okay, perhaps I reacted a bit too vehemently to this guy's video on "how to". I've backed it off a bit, and here's what I put up on youtube:

 Quote:
YIKES. My 50+ years of recording experience leads me to suggest two things for Josh to try:

1.) When miking the piano, place the capsules pointing towards, not away from each other. Use a 90 degree angle relative to each other, with the capsules almost touching. This minimizes phase decorrelation. This is called a Blumlein Pair. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blumlein_pair

2.) When miking a guitar speaker, start at the edge, not the center of the cone. The center is a lot more likely to have spiky high frequencies. https://youtu.be/gQX71Ycrg28?t=147


The only reason that I included the links was because I didn't want people to think I was just making shit up. And for what it's worth, the guitar tone in the second link is not really my cup of tea, but it's a very good exemplar for my point.
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#1652016 - 04/07/20 10:24 AM Re: Doing Tiny Desk Concerts 13 years ahead of when they were "invented" [Re: Mooseboy]
motown59 Offline
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Hey, look at you, mr softie I

Do people check back for comments on three year old videos? I honestly don't know.

To answer your question, I don't usually aim a mic at a speaker dust cap. But if you know what you're doing mixing, or need some brightness, it can work fine. I've certainly inherited poorly mic'd amps. It's not a deal breaker by any means. I'll sometimes aim a ribbon at the middle, or if someone's tone is really dark, depending. So, "it depends" is an accurate answer.

Keep in mind the spirit of the video posted. It was a cursory introduction to how they do things, a video to help people with submissions to their panel-elected special guest concert invitations they extend.

If you want to be accurate and get technical about it, Blumlein pair uses two Figure of 8 mics, generally ribbons but LD MP works fine. Won't work with SD mics like he's got. It's usually used for ambient mic'ing , like rooms, choirs, orchestras. If you meant Coincident XY that would be the correct term for what you suggested. And that would work fine, albeit not much stereo information.

He's sort of doing ORTF with what looks like the 110 degree aim plus the spacing. It's really just a Coincident pair, which is virtually how I would mic that upright. ORTF is also supposed to be back from the source as well , proximity eff changes the design of the technique.

My other point is that he's had experience on his side, results, ears, and what has worked is worth keeping. And a point I didn't make well is: this is what we call a "posted" show. He's typically going into a Sound Devices Field recorder TC to cameras and mixing later. At that point your tracks can be massaged. If something is in that 1/4 to 1/3 wavelength area and doesn't sum well to mono, you can help it.

Phase issues on live stages with multiple sources like this are already a mess. But most certainly , his piano technique won't be an issue, especially considering everything else.


Hope that helps



Edited by motown59 (04/07/20 10:26 AM)
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