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#1665725 - 06/18/20 05:05 AM [Solved] Fader fails to communicate
LoL Bou Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 06/07/20
Posts: 20
Loc: Normandy, France
Hi,

Not done yet on my unit... Fader 12 is having an issue. It is motorized in both directions, but when I set up Input 12, the software doesnt "see" the variations of the fader.

I guess its wiper is shorted to ground, so the read value is zero in all cases, so when i try the "CLEAR" trick, it straight on top because the engine has an "UP" information.

I don't know if this is frequent (search did not come up with such an issue here), but I'll keep updating on this for future reference...

PS: the Fader test fails at Fader 09, although it behaves "normally" as far as i can see. So i don't have feedback on fader 12. I'll look at F9 as well once opened...



Edited by LoL Bou (06/19/20 08:39 AM)

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#1665731 - 06/18/20 07:22 AM Re: Fader fails to communicate [Re: LoL Bou]
Catweazle Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 06/06/20
Posts: 31
Loc: Stockholm Sweden
Hello again .

Aaaah ..... The weakest link of Roland VS ... Faders \:\(

Here´s a thread about "Test Mode" and toward the end there´s some
discussion of Faders \:\)

http://www.vsplanet.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1663692#Post1663692

If you don´t know already ....
To enter Test Mode press and hold "Page" and "F1" while turning VS-2480 on.
Keep them knobs down till text shows up in LCD screen.
Test mode does not show up on VGA ... Only LCD

Cheers !


Edited by Catweazle (06/18/20 07:23 AM)

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#1665792 - 06/18/20 04:17 PM Re: Fader fails to communicate [Re: Catweazle]
LoL Bou Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 06/07/20
Posts: 20
Loc: Normandy, France
I think I have solved the problem. Holding the board vertically, i noticed that the slider was bent, and the slider could rock lateraly.

i had no DC resistance between wiper (pin 2) and pin 1 or pin 3 of the fader.

I desoldered it, opened the tabs maintaining the plastic bottom (in which the carbon tracks are), and found the issue.

Under the slider is a copper spring making contact with both tracks (when you look above your fader, the two carbon tracks are on both sides, what you see is the bare uncarboned material separating these). This spring has two legs, each consisting of 3 hair-thin copper parts gently touching the carbon tracks.

I got a spare leg out of an old and dead Marshall pot, and gently soldered it on the available copper. It looks too long, but the important thing is the actual height of the leg, so that it touches with no excessive pressure on the track.

It's back in now, and tests fine.

I'll mark the post solved once the unit is built back (too late now, it's mistake time!)...

Cheers!

ps: desoldering these faders is a piece of cake : use flux and add some fresh solder, then pump the solder (i used a standard spring-loaded pump). Clean the pads with braid, and you're done.

If many fail, i would really suggest trying to open them all, one at a time, to have a deep clean. It's long and repetitive, but not difficult, and the tabs on the faders are very sturdy and won't break.

ps2. Didn't find anything weird with the faders erroring in the self test. Weird...

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#1665933 - 06/19/20 08:40 AM Re: Fader fails to communicate [Re: LoL Bou]
LoL Bou Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 06/07/20
Posts: 20
Loc: Normandy, France
Problem solved. Fader moves nicely and goes to OdB when CLEAR.

Cool!

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#1665950 - 06/19/20 10:30 AM Re: Fader fails to communicate [Re: LoL Bou]
calypso Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 746
Loc: mid-Missouri

two for two!
there is good news in the world
_________________________
It's all just ones and zeroes.
Mark W in mid-MO

some music here:
calypso soundcloud

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#1666028 - 06/19/20 04:14 PM Re: Fader fails to communicate [Re: calypso]
keeppracticing Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 1229
Loc: Atlanta
Way to go man!!
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#1666158 - 06/20/20 04:12 PM Re: Fader fails to communicate [Re: keeppracticing]
C Jo Go Offline
pseudo musician ~●¿●~
Loquacious Planeteer


Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 27115
Loc: carmel valley,ca
Wish I didn't have such fear to look under the hood of the 2480 --- Easy for me take apart most gear --but, nothing with 27 different screws & dangling faders \:D
_________________________
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats .. ~●¿●~ Where is B flat ?

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#1666457 - 06/22/20 02:06 PM Re: Fader fails to communicate [Re: C Jo Go]
ulank Offline
Forbidden 404 Not Found
Planeteer


Registered: 02/02/08
Posts: 15053
Loc: Chicago, IL
 Originally Posted By: C Jo Go
dangling faders


An unpreventable symptom of old age.
_________________________
Ulank’s lockdown stats:
3,214 hours stayed at home, 2341 lives saved.

189 hours out and about, 103 kills.

We all don’t know shit together!

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#1666599 - 06/23/20 01:23 AM Re: Fader fails to communicate [Re: LoL Bou]
FalconEddy Offline
Mastering Marvel
Planeteer


Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 8187
Loc: Litchfield, NH, USA
 Originally Posted By: LoL Bou
I think I have solved the problem. Holding the board vertically, i noticed that the slider was bent, and the slider could rock lateraly.

i had no DC resistance between wiper (pin 2) and pin 1 or pin 3 of the fader.

I desoldered it, opened the tabs maintaining the plastic bottom (in which the carbon tracks are), and found the issue.

Under the slider is a copper spring making contact with both tracks (when you look above your fader, the two carbon tracks are on both sides, what you see is the bare uncarboned material separating these). This spring has two legs, each consisting of 3 hair-thin copper parts gently touching the carbon tracks.

I got a spare leg out of an old and dead Marshall pot, and gently soldered it on the available copper. It looks too long, but the important thing is the actual height of the leg, so that it touches with no excessive pressure on the track.

It's back in now, and tests fine.

I'll mark the post solved once the unit is built back (too late now, it's mistake time!)...

Cheers!

ps: desoldering these faders is a piece of cake : use flux and add some fresh solder, then pump the solder (i used a standard spring-loaded pump). Clean the pads with braid, and you're done.

If many fail, i would really suggest trying to open them all, one at a time, to have a deep clean. It's long and repetitive, but not difficult, and the tabs on the faders are very sturdy and won't break.

ps2. Didn't find anything weird with the faders erroring in the self test. Weird...



Based on the nomenclature in your posts, I was fairly confident you would resolve this issue yourself, Lol Bou. Sometimes you simply need to go back to the basics of electronics in order to come up with a resolution., as well as approach the issue from multiple angles...literally. Many people forget this and can stay up in the 7th level of the clouds searching for something they're NEVER going to find.

The nitty-gritty basics takes you to three possibilities:

An Open.

A Short.

A Change of value.

In times such as these, I take no credit for knowing this; I'll simply differ to one of my eighth great-grandfathers, Sir Isaac Newton, who said...

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants."

OUTSTANDING TROUBLESHOOTING, LoL Bou!

If I were still a Senior Director of Global Technology, I would have hired you in a heartbeat for my Quality Assurance Division if you applied here in the States. You have a VERY sharp mind, and know HOW to WORK the problem outside the box. BRAVO!



. . Falcon
_________________________
. . . but, what do I know?

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#1666609 - 06/23/20 07:46 AM Re: Fader fails to communicate [Re: FalconEddy]
LoL Bou Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 06/07/20
Posts: 20
Loc: Normandy, France
Wow, thank you Falcon, that's very kind!

I hope this can be of any help to someone in the future...

 Originally Posted By: C Jo Go
Wish I didn't have such fear to look under the hood of the 2480 --- Easy for me take apart most gear --but, nothing with 27 different screws & dangling faders \:D


It really ain't that difficult. Also, check for the threads on the screws. The finer ones are for metal spacers, and for the 3 screws above the SENS knobs. The less-finer ones are for metal sheet. The coarse ones are for plastic. When you screw it back, turn the screw anti-clockwise until it reaches its thread, and screw gently. No force should be required...

I use 1x2 wood block with foam on it, and flipped the unit with the blocks on the sides. I ended up jacking the middle of the unit as well since it's quite flexible when some chassis are removed. Make a sketch for the screws, take pictures... Really, there's not too much connectors, and if you're careful they loosen with no problems.

As for the fader board, it's really easy to get out, but keep in mind that the fader board chassis stays in the unit, since its screws are below the plastic sheet with the track numbers printed on it (and you don't wan't to remove this)?



Edited by LoL Bou (06/23/20 07:56 AM)

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