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#169570 - 02/09/01 07:05 PM What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
Dot Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 8549
Loc: Muthafuckin' NY
I'm finally pissed off. I have made countless very detailed posts about specific gear – and I NEVER would have done it if I knew those posts could not be easily accessible. I even recently took the time to search down a lot of HHB posts and made this big, long HHB / TL Audio Forum. Well, I CAN'T EVEN FIND THAT!!

The site has been slow and/or inaccessible for more than a week, the search engine has not worked properly in months. This is bullshit! We all pay our way around here, and I feel like my time and effort has been completely wasted.

To try and find my HHB/TLA Forum, among other things I tried, I typed in "tony larking" which I know doesn't exist in very many posts, and here's what I get. None of it has anything to do w/ tony larking.

1. 2000-04-04 Slowie's favourite web-site.. VS-1680 / 1880 Group
2. 2000-04-07 Live Vocal Mics VS-1680 / 1880 Group
3. 2000-04-07 Kick Mic VS-1680 / 1880 Group
4. 2000-04-08 CDR-2-use with i-Mac with SCSI-USB adapter? VS-1680 / 1880 Group
5. 2000-04-09 My First Impression of Your Fab Machine VS-1680 / 1880 Group
6. 2000-04-10 If BBE Sonic Maximizer Sounds So Good, Why Do I Hate It? VS-1680 / 1880 Group
7. 2000-04-10 Cubase VST or Logic Audio Platinum? VS-1680 / 1880 Group
8. 2000-04-11 digitaly recording CDs VS-1680 / 1880 Group
9. 2000-04-12 1880/1680 Backup and MTPro Questions VS-1680 / 1880 Group
10. 2000-04-14 problem with digital EQ VS-1680 / 1880 Group
11. 2000-04-15 Locking with Wavecenter PCI board VS-1680 / 1880 Group
12. 2000-04-15 random click/pop sounds when bouncing with effects VS-1680 / 1880 Group
13. 2000-04-17 Trouble maker VS-1680 / 1880 Group
14. 2000-04-21 Outboard Signal Paths VS-1680 / 1880 Group
15. 2000-04-22 Magazines? VS-1680 / 1880 Group
16. 2000-06-08 MOTU 2408MKII VS-1680 / 1880 Group
17. 2000-06-09 Dan's Covers are Awesome VS-1680 / 1880 Group
18. 2000-06-09 I've created another major stir with an incredibly controversial song. VS-1680 / 1880 Group
19. 2000-06-09 1880 Discussion Board VS-1680 / 1880 Group
20. 2000-06-12 VS-1880 question... VS-1680 / 1880 Group
21. 2000-06-12 Which VS Units have an R-Bus? VS-1680 / 1880 Group
22. 2000-06-12 Track Import - Does Quality Diminish? VS-1680 / 1880 Group
23. 2000-06-13 Logic vs will ff/rw but will not play? Any ideas? VS-1680 / 1880 Group
24. 2000-06-13 1880 Track Archiving Question. VS-1680 / 1880 Group
25. 2000-06-13 VS-1880 48khz vs 44khz and CDs VS-1680 / 1880 Group
26. 2000-06-14 VS2WAV --1680 to WAV VS-1680 / 1880 Group
27. 2000-06-15 FMR Audio(RNC producers) inside scoop VS-1680 / 1880 Group
28. 2000-07-15 Emagic... VS-1680 / 1880 Group
29. 2000-08-01 Yamaha AW4416 VS-1680 / 1880 Group
30. 2000-08-08 Does Plextor's New 12X Speed CD Burner Work with the VS?
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#169571 - 02/09/01 07:14 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
Dot Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 8549
Loc: Muthafuckin' NY
I could go in private email – which I have before – but I want to bring this out on the carpet before the whole community.

This place has not been properly functioning since Jeremy left. The people who bought the Planet and the people who help them run it, need to get on the stick, get more server space, get another ISP - whatever needs to be done in order to make this place function properly.

I've worked on building tons of web sites and many communities and BBSs – and it's really not that big of a deal to keep things running smoothly – BUT, you have to know what you're doing, you have to know to ask for help when you need it, and you have to get the right people working on your team. If you guys can't handle it, you should get off the pot and put the Planet up for sale and let some people who know how to make things work take over.
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#169572 - 02/09/01 07:16 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
bug Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/07/01
Posts: 223
Loc: bug
Yes, and I just searched in the "Who" part of Dot's post in this thread, (you know to search all posts made by him,) and guess what?

result:

 Quote:
...63167 posts searched, Matches 0

All posts have been searched



Aparently then, no posts by Dot are available, not even this one.

It is the same for everyone, therfore it's best to have a personal catalogue of "keepers" on ones own HD.

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#169573 - 02/09/01 07:24 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
bug Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/07/01
Posts: 223
Loc: bug
...addendum to above...I emphasize that there is indeed a need to improve the search function, *but* that is NOTHING to consider personally against the great people currently in ownership of the Planet! I completely understand that it may be in the processes of getting fixed, and I also realize that you all have offered a tremendous amount of your own free time and money to make this site happen for us all. You do a wonderful job, and I have faith that the search issue will get worked out appropriately.

[This message has been edited by bug (edited 02-09-2001).]

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#169574 - 02/09/01 07:37 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
Dot Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 8549
Loc: Muthafuckin' NY
No, you're right, bug, this isn't personal. I, myself, am also someone who has offered a tremendous amount of his own free time and money to make this site happen for us all.

My basic audio/sound consultant rate is a minimum of $50/hr. I have at least spent a good 100 hours carefully answering very specific questions that Planeteers had about gear and/or where to buy it – including links and all sorts of info. So, I have contributed over five thousand dollars of my time to this place.

And I feel my time and energy have been wasted.

Consider this business. The Planet BBS has not, in a loooooooonnnggg time, functioned the way that Ultimate Bulletin Board designed this BBS software to work.
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#169575 - 02/09/01 07:42 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
wawazzat Offline
SIR ZINGER / Artist # 1
SIR ZINGER / Artist # 1


Registered: 02/21/00
Posts: 5822
Loc: WV, it's in America
Dot-

I think this web site's maintenance is done on a volunteer basis.

If you know a lot about this stuff, maybe you could lend 'em a hand?

How 'bout you bug? Know anything about that stuff?
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wawazzat?
Cheerleading

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#169576 - 02/09/01 08:42 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
bug Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/07/01
Posts: 223
Loc: bug
Good points, Dot and Wawazzat. Except, Zzat, this site is not a co-op, I mean there are profits being made, no? I'm unclear about this.

Wish that I could help by donating the requisit skill.

Hope it gets fixed. Will have to save copies to my HD if I like something in the interim.

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#169577 - 02/09/01 09:12 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
VFChris Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 06/26/00
Posts: 1948
Loc: Acworth, GA USA
Okay. Let's think about the problem for a bit.

Now, since the search engine is actually returning some results, it's functioning on some level. The Planet, at least the software, was physically moved to another server, yes? We may be dealing with something as simple as a few broken links in the code. Something minor out of place can potentially wreak havoc in the functionality of the engine.

Of course, this is just some theory, I don't know the specifics of UBB.

I [b]know[/b[ we've got some geeks here. If we put our heads together, we can fix this.

Use the Source, Luke...

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#169578 - 02/09/01 10:04 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
Dot Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 8549
Loc: Muthafuckin' NY
So, I just get a private email from Geet basically telling me that "screaming at him in public will not have the effect I desire", and he throws in a little "go fuck yourself".

Geet, face facts, man. You ain't handlin' the job here. This place has been busted in so many ways for so many months it's not even funny.

And I don't know exactly who everyone is behind the scenes here - so I wasn't necessarily singling anyone out. And I don't know whether this place is a corporation, partnership, or what.

I've called this out here on the carpet. I'm probably the 20th person making a post regarding the lack of a properly functioning search engine. And how many more people come here and can't find the info they're looking for. And how many more of us have answered the same questions over and over because we can't even retreive OUR OWN posts to give someone some additional info???
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#169579 - 02/09/01 10:08 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
Dot Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 8549
Loc: Muthafuckin' NY
So, what is the problem? What needs to be done????????

Zzat commented that to me that If you know a lot about this stuff, maybe you could lend 'em a hand?

I HAVE offered on several occasions to help on many different levels. I know crack database guys and CGI, Perl script writers and I have even offered to cover the check to pay someone. My offers have fallen on deaf ears.
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#169580 - 02/09/01 10:09 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
FatherApe Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 8494
Gee, Dot, your endearing words here should work wonders to motivate a prompt and generous response by those you've dragged across the carpets, out the door, down the hall, then into the john for a good head dunkin'.

Yeah boy, bet they're crawling all over themselves to help old Dot out now!

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#169581 - 02/09/01 10:11 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
Hz Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 234
Good evening Dot,

I help out here on a volunteer basis.

Your "HBB" forum can be found by searching for "HHB" (match 88 is searching 'entire message' of 'all forums', or match number 25 if restricted to subject line).

Match number 24 if searching subjects for the word "Forum".

Match number 8 if searching VS1680 for "larking".

This thread is match number 126, searching for author "Dot" in OT. Match number 11 if searching for the word "HHB" in OT restricted to the author Dot.

The search engine has been a chronic problem for a long time. The new implementation of the search engine is a lot faster than the UBB search engine was, and consumes a lot fewer resources. The UBB engine was so primitive and inefficient (eg, loads large numbers of threads into memory!) that it could not cope with the number of threads in the planet's archives and Jeremy routinely had to simply discard old posts in order to keep the search engine in good health. Rather than delete any more old posts (last deletions were in Jan - only in OT and Classifieds), we have elected to implement a new search engine that is currently pretty functional, except for the "and" option for keyword search, date restriction, and searches for "tony". You can find most things at this point.

As far as our ISP is concerned - we are allotted much more bandwidth and server space than when Jeremy owned the planet. This host is clearly not perfect, but perfection isn't easy to find in web hosting land, especially at attainable prices. Do you remember that the planet used to just "go away" for several days at the end of each month when Jeremy owned it due to bandwidth excesses? Sometimes for up to a week! There has never been an outage coming close to that since changing ISP's. And compared to homerec, this this place always seems to load faster for me. If it is too slow to bear, and there is consensus that we should move to another ISP, and you would like to help, then you could do so by helping to identify web hosting companies with good price/performance specs, keeping in mind that most all look better on paper than in real life.

Of course, there's still room to improve in many areas, and we're working on it.

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#169582 - 02/09/01 10:13 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
Paris Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/20/99
Posts: 1714
Loc: Austin, Texas, USA
Cool it Apeshit. Dot is right to blow his stack over this because it has gone on long enough. I myself created a thread not long ago on this fucking frustreating matter. Sorry you had to get the post-nicotine anger in your face Dot.
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www.mp3.com/bajakaloop

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#169583 - 02/09/01 10:17 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
Dot Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 8549
Loc: Muthafuckin' NY
Ape, this isn't about "me". This is about getting the place running right, or finding out what needs to get done for that to happen.

Hz, thanks for your frank and honest offering. That's all I've been looking for.
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#169584 - 02/09/01 10:29 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
FatherApe Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 8494
Apology accepted paris.
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#169585 - 02/09/01 10:32 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
T57Strat Offline
Artist #40
Planeteer


Registered: 12/31/99
Posts: 18923
Loc: Keller, TX
guys, the only reason dot was angry/frustrated is because he loves this place. The reason he loves this place is because we are all here helping each other. I helped where I could, as did and does a lot of guys.

part of the solution is the best option, but I don't blame anyone for getting upset. Just help where you can. This is not exactly a gold mine for the owners, ya know? They are doing their best to make ends meet and there is no way this thing was better when Jeremy owned it.

No fucking way. It blew it's bandwidth load 3-4 days before month end; month after month. Then, he basically told us we needed to pay for it. I sent my share and hopefully helped my share (Geets? Buddy? Uncle Leo?, Jack?)

That has not happened here, nor do I expect it to. If ya'll love the VSPlanet as much as I do, pitch in and help where you can. The resources of the planeteers is what makes this one of the most special places on the web. It's the reason we get pissed when we don't have this precious resource.

All I'm saying is, "If you can help, then help". Otherwise enjoy in silence, I know a lot of ya'll do and that's cool too, but at least click on some of the sponsors banners, hits do wonders for ad sales. This site could be and should be profitable, but right now, I can bet it's not (at least not if I do the taxes

Peace bros
Strat

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#169586 - 02/09/01 10:53 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
KMF Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 06/19/99
Posts: 938
Loc: Kansas, U.S.A.
Hz --

It appears that you have some special insight into proper use of the newly implemented Search Function that might benefit all of us who drop in here from time to time. If so, would you be so kind as to post whatever instructions we may need to effectively exploit its capabilities (however limited they might be)?

There is such a need for this kind of information that any suggestions you can share would be greatly appreciated.

Peace. KMF.

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#169587 - 02/09/01 11:22 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
Dot Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 8549
Loc: Muthafuckin' NY
KMF, Rocky, Steve Lorch and I and a few others have been on the front lines in the 1680 forum for quite a while. We're the ones who take time and answer the gear/tech/system questions in the busiest gear forum on the Planet. I have laid back for a while because I got sick of answering the same questions over and over, and also because I couldn't even find my own posts to refer people.

Now, tonight I see Guitardaze in the 1680 forum asking about the HHB Fatman. Well, rather than write about it for the umpteenth time, I wanted to link him to a large bunch of HHB-oriented posts that would give him lots of info on not only the gear but the company and a lot of other stuff. Well, I couldn't locate the thread I had taken a good amount of my own time to compile.

Since, this was about the 100th time that has happened to me, yes, I got pissed off. Finally. I got pissed off.

I consider my gear/system/engineering-oriented posts to be "money in the bank" at the Planet. I know a lot of folks will vouch for me here that I generally know my stuff . So, when I go to look for a "deposit" that I've made so that I can share it with someone who's looking for that kind of info - and I can't find it - I feel like I'm being robbed. And the person who could have benefitted from the info is being rob as well.

As KMF posted, any pointers on how we can better retrieve past posts here would be greatly appreciated.
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#169588 - 02/09/01 11:24 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
T57Strat Offline
Artist #40
Planeteer


Registered: 12/31/99
Posts: 18923
Loc: Keller, TX
Hz is wise in the ways of the planet, but please everyone re-read my post. The webmaster is working harder on this place than anyone ever has.

If you have complaints, don't say, "Well shit, I can do it better than that".

What the fuck is that helping? Again, the reasons you get pissed are because you love this site.

Please remember this fucking thing is not exactly for profit, it's for you. It's a sinkhole done for you. If it made Ten bucks in 2000 I'll kiss your fucking ass. What do you want for free? The world, the moon? well George Bailey may lasso it for you. The webmaster is busting his hump and doesn't need Paris or dot, no offense to either; bitching because they can't search for a freakin thread posted 16 mos ago about one little piece of info. Telling Glenn and Jack to sell is fucking bullshit and I don't care what you think of me for saying it. This place is better than it has ever been, and if you don't like it, homerec is right over here.: www.homerec.com

Do what I do when I have a question: ask again. We will answer.

God, people have no fucking courtesy and I get sick of it. You get something for nothing and it's not good enough. It just pisses me off to no end when people want to bitch at the webmaster, who makes at least .10 cents an hour doing this.

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#169589 - 02/09/01 11:27 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
T57Strat Offline
Artist #40
Planeteer


Registered: 12/31/99
Posts: 18923
Loc: Keller, TX
dot, you posted right before me, and your points are taken. I consider you a friend and a little venom from me is not directed at the jugular.

Yes, you are right, yes I am right. There is a middle ground

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#169590 - 02/09/01 11:55 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
Dot Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 8549
Loc: Muthafuckin' NY
I hear ya', Strat. And if i didn't care, I wouldn't be pissed. And I don't think it's all about the webmaster either, which is why I wanted this more out in the open so we could discuss this as a community.

I think there's more to it sometimes than, "Well, if you don't like it, there's the door." That's the cheap way out, IMO, especially if there are some real concerns being raised. Like a lot of other people here, I have a lot, literally, invested in this place – and I think I at least get to say my peace.

And there's also the matter of posts made in the Feedback & Suggestions forum that don't ever get attented to. I posted this on 1/23 asking about enabling HTML in the posts here, and never got a reply. Many posts in that forum get no replies or acknowledgement.

And Hano and I have, a few times, brought up the fact that the Planet puts about 50 COOKIES on our browsers in one session here. I often have to stop and reboot my browser. The cookies are coming from all the ads, I suspect.

All these problems can get taken care of, and, no, I don't think it all falls to the webmaster. But I also don't think you can take over a place and then not take the flack for things when they're not running right over a period - not of a few days - but months. THEN, you need to ask for help, and it also helps to get things out in the open so you can assess exactly what kind of help is needed.

On many levels, I will give the new owners credit for getting the Planet more focused and not tolerating some of the hateful, racist-type posts we've seen here in the past – but that doesn't mean that other things don't need improvement – nor am I putting the burden of improvement on their shoulders alone.

BTW, I did finally find the post I was looking for. Though it wasn't from 16 months ago, but rather posted 01-22-2001 04:21 PM. : )
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#169591 - 02/10/01 12:51 AM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
bug Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/07/01
Posts: 223
Loc: bug
Discouraged by the "Who" search function failure, I didn't try the standard search. So now I see that it works ok. \:o >
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#169592 - 02/10/01 01:23 AM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
Hz Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 234
OK you sqeaky wheels, "match all..." works now. Up till now, all searches used "match any", which would still find the same things, but would require you to wade through more posts.

If you require all the words to be in the post, use "match all..". If any one of the words is sufficient, then use "match any..".

If you want to only consider posts by a specific author in the search, then type that author's name in the author field.

Do these tips make sense?

Date restriction is the only part still not implemented.

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#169593 - 02/10/01 01:30 AM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
KMF Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 06/19/99
Posts: 938
Loc: Kansas, U.S.A.
T57Strat --

I can't imagine that your post at 11:24 p.m. is intended to suggest that my request for assistance in using the Search Function is offensive or otherwise unreasonable. Therefore, I will follow your advice and reiterate my original request for information posted earlier in this thread.

Now that I have politely asked again, I hope that whoever "[w]e" is "will answer."

Peace. KMF.

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#169594 - 02/10/01 01:55 AM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
T57Strat Offline
Artist #40
Planeteer


Registered: 12/31/99
Posts: 18923
Loc: Keller, TX
I think Hz answered your question?... no sir, you have certainly not offended me in any way, and if there is a question I can answer, I think everyone here knows I would do it as quickly as possible.

Or I could lie with the best of them!

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#169595 - 02/11/01 04:02 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
Hano_dup1 Offline
Planeteer/Artist # 45
Planeteer/Artist # 45


Registered: 12/15/00
Posts: 11296
Loc: Leuven - Belgium - E.U.
Guys,
I have been reading this, and I think the main thought of Dot is right. Being a kind person doesn't necesarely makes one a good website owner. These problems are not new at all, just like a leaking crane in some houses need urgent fix.. because it can drive you nuts ... that is what is happening here. These problems have not been handled in a propper way (much more than six month's).

I am very pleased that we can communicate. I have been putting much time and effort to write the most readable English anwsers, aldoug it's far from a reasonable language to me.. Some of my mails I have been editting more than six times - and ten days later you can't find them back. Code?
To take over a layout is only a surface copy of HTML. Anyone can copy a webpage

Why must we always complain ? Because there is something to complain about. In my life I have never been in a place that I have been checking on so regularrry.

To bad it has no past.

[This message has been edited by Hano (edited 02-11-2001).]
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Hano\'s space . . VSP Artist N°45

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#169596 - 02/11/01 06:21 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
Hz Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 234
Hano (and others) - could you please give some specific details about what difficulties you are having with the search engine? It works for me - but maybe there are some bugs that haven't caught my attention since I don't use it much. Also keep in mind that in the "old days" threads were deleted because the old "stock" UBB search engine was choking on the sheer number of them - the search engine problem is a chronic one dating back much further than six months. It's a shame to have to delete any information people spent effort posting. When I found out that this was the practice, it made me cringe. Hopefully with the new system no more threads should have to be deleted.

As for cookies - the ad software has been muzzled, so I hope that fixes whatever problem was occuring. I never ran into cookie problems with Internet explorer or Netscape, but it seems that many people's browsers couldn't eat all those cookies

[This message has been edited by Hz (edited 02-11-2001).]

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#169597 - 02/11/01 07:08 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
KMF Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 06/19/99
Posts: 938
Loc: Kansas, U.S.A.
Hz --

Thanks for the search tips. I think they'll help. The problem that I have had with the Search Function (and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone) is using the "keyword" technique. Even though I know that a particular word or short phrase appears in a previous post, success in retrieving that information using a keyword search seems to be a matter of luck -- sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Since there does not appear to be any obvious explanation for such inconsistent performance, the result is often frustration. I appreciate your efforts in trying to help find a solution -- I wish I could be more helpful but I know zilch about the technical side of this issue.

With respect to older posts, I will reiterate that there used to be VS Planet archives located at some remote site and that posts of a certain vintage used to get stored there. I don't know who maintained the site or transferred Planet information to that location, but I used it several times in late 1999 and early 2000 -- it seemed to be a valuable resource. Unfortunately, I lost the link when my HD died last summer. Does anyone know the status and URL of these remote archives?

Thanks again, Hz. Peace. KMF.

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#169598 - 02/11/01 08:12 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
Dot Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 8549
Loc: Muthafuckin' NY
Hz, I'm a bit of an internet research/search engine pro. If it's on the net, chances are good I can find it. I've had constant problems locating past threads for months here. Now, if some things have been fixed but I still have trouble, then, of course, the system becomes suspect. And if I can't find stuff, how should we expect a newbie just coming on to this BBS to find anything?

Now, if the search engine is working better, it may help to make up an HTML page on Planet search engine tips.

BTW, Hz, as of today, I can see that the software is not throwing tons of cookies on to my brower any more. So, thanks for that! Excellent!
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#169599 - 02/11/01 08:20 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
Dot Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 8549
Loc: Muthafuckin' NY
BTW, I posted this in Feedback & Suggestions a couple of weeks ago, and have gotten no response:

...could you guys please enable HTML for use in posts. It's just the click of a button.

Using the UBB code for this board is confusing, because it's so close to HTML. For awhile, it was my UBB code that was messed up. Now doing UBB code is interfering w/ my writing of HTML. I make more goofs now because the codes are so alike. Thanks.


It is very important to recognize and address posts made by community members when there are legitimate problems. Too often, I feel feedback falls on deaf ears around here – and I'm not someone who bitches about the Planet too often, if ever.

Hz, I appreciate that you're here and giving some of your attention to these various matters.
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#169600 - 02/11/01 11:45 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
Hz Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 234
I think Geets in considering the html thing. I also get my html and ubb codes mentally mixed. Not really sure why they invented ubb, since it is essentially html with [ instead of <.

As far as the search engine goes - if there are threads that you cannot find, but you know that they contain the key word you are using, then post that example here so I can compare the results of the search engine to a manual search (eg fgrep keyword ./*). The same goes for any inconsistencies - if the same keyword search fails to find a thread that it found before, post that example here. That would be very helpful. If there are such cases, then they can be used to help detect whatever problems there may be.

[This message has been edited by Hz (edited 02-11-2001).]

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#169601 - 02/12/01 01:33 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
Jack Hobson-Dupont Offline
VS-Planet Idiot Savant
Planeteer


Registered: 04/20/99
Posts: 4767
Loc: Nantucket Island
I just got back, so I was unaware of all of the acrimony surrounding the search engine problem. Thank you, Hz, for all the work you do and have done to help The Planet.

I hear your anger, Dot, and I respect your right to wish that Geets and I pass on ownership of this website because of our incompetence. It has been my experience with anger --or with any of its dark sister emotions like envy, jealousy, fear, hatred, or whatever-- that if I find myself angry it means that the context within which I am viewing something is too narrow. If I widen the context, take in a larger number of the variables that are influencing a situation, the anger often dissipates as a function of having a greater understanding.

Your analogy of a bank is a bit flawed. Yes, your valuable contributions --and those of others-- are deposited here and represent an investment of knowledge, hopefully for later retrieval. The difference is, however, that you pay a bank for that privilege, while we offer the service for free. The advertising revenue here doesn't cover the costs of operating The Planet, mainly because we haven't wanted to burden Planeteers with too much annoying "Attention K-Mart Shoppers!" data-noise. Also, we don't want to ask Planeteers to contribute money: we want to provide this haven for free, as a gift to all who come here. It costs us, personally, to own and maintain this website. And we rely upon the help of people like Hz and T57Strat, who give graciously and generously of their time and work, for the benefit of the Planet Community.

Here is an example of how "expanding the context" will reveal more information than expected. Some might logically conclude that, "Hey, getting pissed off, suggesting that Geets and Jack sell the Planet because they're not competent to run it worked! It got Hz to fix some of the search engine problems."

Yes, in fact, the squeaky wheel did get the grease. But expand the context: you'll see that in order for Hz to perform this service, he had to take time away from his own already overworked schedule to accommodate the complaints here. Thus, the Planet benefited, but only at some cost to Hz.

Regarding that bit of private e-mail from Geets, the privacy of which Dot chose not to respect? Well, if Dot had written an e-mail to me, I wouldn't have responded with "Go fuck yourself"... but then again I haven't just quit smoking, whereas Geets has. See? Widen the context: take into account that our Webmaster, in addition to the countless hours each day he puts into providing this site for everybody, is at the same time kicking the most difficult addiction known to man.

I am very thankful that bug and Strat had the generosity of spirit to speak out in appreciation of GeeTarzan's thankless efforts here. Evidently, everyone else simply takes them for granted.

This is an example of what I call SMS, or "Scratched Mercedes Syndrome". You give somebody a shiny Mercedes-Benz. Free. Leather seats. Sunroof. Bose sound system. But, there's a scratch where a shopping cart has dinged the right front fender. Many people will focus their attention on the scratch. And some will even be angry at you for giving them a car with a scratch in it. They'll remind you time and again that you haven't fixed that scratch yet, haven't taken it to a body shop yet in spite of numerous complaints about it.

Go figure.

love.
Jack

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#169602 - 02/12/01 01:53 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
Dot Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 8549
Loc: Muthafuckin' NY
Hey, Jack Good to see you back. Hope you had a good trip.

I do pay to be here. I pay w/ all the knowledgeable gear/engineering posts I regularly contribute. Stewart Brand , publisher of the Whole Earth Catalog, founder of the WELL and board member of the Electronic Frontier Foundation , has been widely quoted with saying, "The currency of cyberspace is attention." – and w/ that many of us "pay our way" here. This place is nothing without the contributions of many people. And those of us who are on the front lines of the gear forums, who post detailed answers to specific questions, literally "put money in the bank" for the owners here – because we increase the $ value of the Planet.

I have also received more than several emails privately from folks here who think I'm totally in line for addressing the issues I have in this thread.

I have worked extensively w/ a lot of conferencing software including Caucus, WELL Engaged, Motet and many others, and believe me, Utimate Bulletin Board is no Mercedes. It is, at best, a basic-model Saturn [ Bose stereo? Sunroof? You must have scored some good herb on your trip : ) ] – and it is more than scratched when very basic functions of the machine do not work properly. I would never bitch about a scratch, but if the brakes don't work or the tires are badly in need of alignment for months, yes, you'll hear about from me about after while – and I am, by far, not the first person to point out these flaws.

Again, I was not singling anyone out, and I don't know all the specifics of who runs things behind the scenes and what type of business entity "owns" the place. Largely, that's really none of my business. I have also praised the new owners in several threads for bringing a more civil, sane and focused experience to the Planet.




[This message has been edited by Dot (edited 02-12-2001).]
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#169603 - 02/12/01 02:44 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
Paris Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/20/99
Posts: 1714
Loc: Austin, Texas, USA
I'm going to chime in here: The search function is, if not the most useful and important asset here, certainly next in line for that merit. It is the by-product of countless hours of research and frustration over right from wrong ways of doing things and a plethora of great heavily researched information. Its much larger than a scratch on the Saturn. It really makes this fine place slip a notch or two having it in disrepair. Its very disapppointing.
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#169604 - 02/12/01 06:56 PM Re: What is the PROBLEM with getting the mutherfucking search engine to work!!!!!!
Hz Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 234
Is anyone still having trouble with searches?
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