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#1710102 - 01/16/21 11:22 AM Re: VS-CD-RII shows up in Drive Select but is "No Drive" in CDR Back Up of 1880 [Re: klaus dibbelt]
klaus dibbelt Offline
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Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 8244
Loc: erzhausen, germany, europe
The enclosure, front:

Back:

You see the SCSI connector with the cable plugged in, below it the terminator block.
On the right the external ID switches, set to 3 and 2.

The inside from above:

The hard drive with the 50pin flatband SCSI cable connected to it, and the power cable connected. Not sure what the pins in between the SCSI and power connectors are supposed to be for.

Here is the connector section unplugged:


Now that I have removed the hard drive, the back side of the CD burner with its connectors can be seen (in order to get a better view I would have to disassemble the whole thing):

It cannot be seen here, but there are jumpers in the places that are marked "TERM" (terminator, I guess) and "PRTY" (priority?? whatever that might mean).







Edited by klaus dibbelt (01/16/21 11:29 AM)
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#1710104 - 01/16/21 11:40 AM Re: VS-CD-RII shows up in Drive Select but is "No Drive" in CDR Back Up of 1880 [Re: dkfackler]
klaus dibbelt Offline
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 Originally Posted By: dkfackler
Does the enclosure have a pushbutton SCSI address switch?

Admittedly grasping at straws here, but you might try this:

Disconnect the enclosure switch(make note of which wire goes on what pin) from the drive and set it to an unused address ID. VS is commonly set to 7, so don't use that.

With a VOM, determine which leads on the switch have continuity for the SCSI ID chosen above. Write this down.

Use jumpers to replicate the continuities determined in the previous step.

Connect and try. Keep trying jumper configs until it either works or you run out of IDs.

Just a thought.

~dk

Hey and thanks, dk!
Been there, done that (sort of).
Actually, I am able to verify the accuracy of the external ID switch: the VS freezes exactly at the point when it searches the ID that I have set the hard drive to.
Also, I disconnected the external switch and - using jumpers - set the hard drive to several IDs (that were also verified by the VS in that it froze when it arrived at them...

I am close to giving up and being happy that I got what I initially was searching for: a working CD-burner.
Well, the hard drive would have been a nice bonus...
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#1710107 - 01/16/21 12:08 PM Re: VS-CD-RII shows up in Drive Select but is "No Drive" in CDR Back Up of 1880 [Re: klaus dibbelt]
uptildawn Offline
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Just on a surface observation -
1- that appears to definitely be a scsi hard drive. It's very thick compared to a "standard" pc hard drive, correct? So, my usual orientation to things like jumper pins is totally useless.

2- From the looks of the 3rd photo - hard drive from above - that white thing in between the ribbon and the power looks like a jumper block to me. What is it used for?

3- What's that mess of heat shrinked and otherwise individually connected wires coming from the "front side" of the hard drive being used for? That is evidently what the diagram on the hard drive label is referencing then, correct?

So your ID is connected via those pins at the front? - so my apologies in misidentifying the connections earlier. I thought someone had connected individual wires to pins that would ordinarily be connected via a large connector and ribbon cable, such as that used on the rear of the drive.

I still see jury-rigged wiring on that connector - the large bulb of heat shrinked wires pushing/bending against one of the pins next to it, for instance. That's not factory is it? What's that connector all about, I wonder?

I can clearly see that the burner has an easily identifiable pin diagram that shows where a jumper would go, so that's nice - simple for simple minds like mine! \:\)

Aside from these observations, I am still at a loss to understand why the hard drive won't function since the os update.
Did you perform the update with the external unit connected and turned on? Maybe it would make a difference to do the update again, but without any external devices turned on, except for the zip drive used to update the os...... Or is that the way you did the update?

I wouldn't think it should have mattered whether or not other scsi devices were connected and/or turned on/off while doing the update, but it might be worth the time to do the update over again???? I don't know if that feels like a waste of time, but one can never be sure without trying.

What else is there to assume, but that maybe the hard drive has stopped working - even in that 1/2hr you spent updating the os - weird to be sure, but is it possible? Only way to find out would be to try the drive connected to some other gear - a pc maybe - or to try a different drive in this enclosure.




Edited by uptildawn (01/16/21 12:11 PM)
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#1710108 - 01/16/21 12:27 PM Re: VS-CD-RII shows up in Drive Select but is "No Drive" in CDR Back Up of 1880 [Re: uptildawn]
klaus dibbelt Offline
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Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 8244
Loc: erzhausen, germany, europe
 Originally Posted By: uptildawn
Just on a surface observation -
1- that appears to definitely be a scsi hard drive. It's very thick compared to a "standard" pc hard drive, correct? So, my usual orientation to things like jumper pins is totally useless.


Yes, plus it even reads SCSI on the label.

 Quote:
2- From the looks of the 3rd photo - hard drive from above - that white thing in between the ribbon and the power looks like a jumper block to me. What is it used for?

I have no idea. It hasn´t been connected and isn´t. There is no description for it on the label.

 Quote:
3- What's that mess of heat shrinked and otherwise individually connected wires coming from the "front side" of the hard drive being used for? That is evidently what the diagram on the hard drive label is referencing then, correct?

Yep.

 Quote:
So your ID is connected via those pins at the front?

Yep, those cables on top are coming from the external ID switch.
They seem to be factory, to me.


 Quote:
I still see jury-rigged wiring on that connector - the large bulb of heat shrinked wires pushing/bending against one of the pins next to it, for instance. That's not factory is it? What's that connector all about, I wonder?

According to the diagram, the gray jumper connects "Autostart", while the heat shrinked wires connect to a LED on the front of the enclosure (probably not necessary).

 Quote:
I can clearly see that the burner has an easily identifiable pin diagram that shows where a jumper would go, so that's nice - simple for simple minds like mine! \:\)

\:D But you have such a simple description for the the hard drive, as well - it´s the diagram. Pretty similar, I´d say.

 Quote:
Aside from these observations, I am still at a loss to understand why the hard drive won't function since the os update.
Did you perform the update with the external unit connected and turned on? Maybe it would make a difference to do the update again, but without any external devices turned on, except for the zip drive used to update the os...... Or is that the way you did the update?

I wouldn't think it should have mattered whether or not other scsi devices were connected and/or turned on/off while doing the update, but it might be worth the time to do the update over again???? I don't know if that feels like a waste of time, but one can never be sure without trying.

I did the update via MIDI; and, no, of course I had disconnected the SCSI cable.

 Quote:
What else is there to assume, but that maybe the hard drive has stopped working - even in that 1/2hr you spent updating the os - weird to be sure, but is it possible?

About as possible as me winning the lottery without having bought a ticket - but honestly: at this point this seems to be the only logical conclusion left.
 Quote:
Only way to find out would be to try the drive connected to some other gear - a pc maybe - or to try a different drive in this enclosure.

Yeah, that would be great; I don´t have any other gear capable of SCSI left (I sold all my ATARI stuff, but I remember that SCSI was a pain in the ass already back then).
I have another enclosure with another hard drive, though. Problem is: It has SCSI1 connectors throughout (internally and externally), while the gear we are talking about has SCSI2 connectors.
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#1710113 - 01/16/21 12:51 PM Re: VS-CD-RII shows up in Drive Select but is "No Drive" in CDR Back Up of 1880 [Re: klaus dibbelt]
uptildawn Offline
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You might need to scrounge up another hard drive to know for sure what's up with the one you have in that enclosure. You might try getting a scsi1 to scsi2 adapter to try out that other drive you have... if you can find or make one.

I wouldn't know how to make one - it's just a notion...

sorry to confuse your midi update with another's zip update!
I prefer the midi method, myself.
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#1710122 - 01/16/21 01:22 PM Re: VS-CD-RII shows up in Drive Select but is "No Drive" in CDR Back Up of 1880 [Re: uptildawn]
klaus dibbelt Offline
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Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 8244
Loc: erzhausen, germany, europe
 Originally Posted By: uptildawn
You might need to scrounge up another hard drive to know for sure what's up with the one you have in that enclosure. You might try getting a scsi1 to scsi2 adapter to try out that other drive you have... if you can find or make one.

I wouldn't know how to make one - it's just a notion...

sorry to confuse your midi update with another's zip update!
I prefer the midi method, myself.




I guess, unless a really smashing new idea comes up, I will just let it go.
I wanted a working CD-burner in order to use VS-ripper, and I got it. A bit too expensive since I also paid for the hard drive, but oh well.
It´s been a great experience to come back here after many years and find the place still being as great and you guys being as willing to help as ever, and it´s been fun trying to figure things out together.
Thank you, in particular, uptildawn!
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#1710355 - 01/17/21 12:44 PM Re: VS-CD-RII shows up in Drive Select but is "No Drive" in CDR Back Up of 1880 [Re: dkfackler]
gyorpb Offline
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Registered: 05/11/19
Posts: 133
That drive is marked “LVD”, which means “low voltage differential”. I very much doubt that drive has ever worked with any VS machine, or ever has.
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#1710551 - 01/18/21 04:43 AM Re: VS-CD-RII shows up in Drive Select but is "No Drive" in CDR Back Up of 1880 [Re: gyorpb]
klaus dibbelt Offline
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Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 8244
Loc: erzhausen, germany, europe
 Originally Posted By: gyorpb
That drive is marked “LVD”, which means “low voltage differential”. I very much doubt that drive has ever worked with any VS machine, or ever has.

Hey gyorb, and thanks for your reply!
Well, I have seen it work with my VS1680, but maybe you have a point anyway.
I don´t know much about these things, so may I ask you what "low voltage differential" practically means, and why it is or might be a problem in this case? Thanks!
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#1710624 - 01/18/21 12:25 PM Re: VS-CD-RII shows up in Drive Select but is "No Drive" in CDR Back Up of 1880 [Re: klaus dibbelt]
gyorpb Offline
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Registered: 05/11/19
Posts: 133
https://www.seagate.com/nl/nl/support/kb/lvd-ultra2-scsi-low-voltage-differential-drives-196471en/

Apparently, LVD and SE devices are (should be!) mutually compatible. I did not know that. They’re bound to be even more finicky than SCSI always is, though.

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#1710628 - 01/18/21 12:55 PM Re: VS-CD-RII shows up in Drive Select but is "No Drive" in CDR Back Up of 1880 [Re: gyorpb]
klaus dibbelt Offline
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Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 8244
Loc: erzhausen, germany, europe
 Originally Posted By: gyorpb
https://www.seagate.com/nl/nl/support/kb/lvd-ultra2-scsi-low-voltage-differential-drives-196471en/

Apparently, LVD and SE devices are (should be!) mutually compatible. I did not know that. They’re bound to be even more finicky than SCSI always is, though.

Thanks for the link!
I was wondering if this part might be relevant here:
 Quote:
How do I configure termination and termination power on Seagate LVD drives?

Do to the specifications of Ultra2 SCSI, Seagate LVD drives have no provision for setting termination on the drive. Termination must be provided by an external source. Similarly, termination power is hard locked to "Drive supplies the Bus" and can not be changed. Although compliant with LVD controllers, these settings may not be fully compatible with standard Single-Ended SCSI controllers.

?
But then, I do not really know what "hard locked to 'Drive supplies the Bus' even means...
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