#1760909 - 11/30/21 04:35 AM
The Bridge, The Middle Eight
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Tao Jones
Planeteer
Registered: 06/13/00
Posts: 15064
Loc: CA
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I really like to put a middle eight in my songs if I can think of one. They have to be worthy of the song, though. I have these three new songs I really love a lot, but one of them I wanted a bridge for, and, you know, some songs have a hard time opening up for a bridge. They just really want to go back and forth between verse and chorus and not break out.
So I was hanging outside w our latest addition, a baby desert tortoise, giving her a chance to walk, and playing guitar when the bridge just came to me. I had other ideas earlier, but they were ultimately not as good as the song, but this one is beautiful. Then the question was whether it could get back into the song from the bridge and it really could. 8 bars, very different from the other song parts, fits like a glove. There it is, a precious middle eight.
Of course, I like it so much I start wanting more of it. Those same chords could also be the intro or the outro or both.
But that’s an impulse to be resisted, isn’t it? An honest to God middle eight was what you wished for and it came. So take it for what it is, and be glad you have that.
But every time I listen to the song, I wanna hear that middle eight.
And that’s how the magic works, I guess, though I still want to hear more of it.
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#1760918 - 11/30/21 05:49 AM
Re: The Bridge, The Middle Eight
[Re: Tao Jones]
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FlametopFred
FlametopFred
Planeteer
Registered: 06/03/99
Posts: 8511
Loc: at the wave ranch dressing
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hol up
So I was hanging outside w our latest addition, a baby desert tortoise, giving her a chance to walk,
what is a baby desert and how many tortoise come from there?
I used to write middle eight/bridges all the time, like a reflexive action.
And then I inhaled some Ween and never ever wrote a bridge ever again. Except sometimes. On occasion.
Seriously? A tortoise from a baby desert. Cuteness abounds.
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#1760950 - 11/30/21 04:22 PM
Re: The Bridge, The Middle Eight
[Re: FlametopFred]
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Popmann
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 33088
Loc: Twangville, TN
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Makes the song. I think of it as the compositional twirl. Its less about the spinning as the LANDING that twirl back into the song youve been plowing for 3min at that point. Dovetailing the nearly always modulation BACK to the tune….or leaving it in the modulated key and vocally taking the familiar hook elsewhere.
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#1760953 - 11/30/21 04:30 PM
Re: The Bridge, The Middle Eight
[Re: Popmann]
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Webster
Planeteer
Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 16952
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Agree 100% pop.
Coming up with a bridge that works, and fits, and feels good... is often elusive to me. The thing where you're in a major key and then go to the the relative minor and then resolve it to the 5th (or something along those lines) is cliche - although its popular and works.
I just need to practice and really WORK on song-crafting more.
But yeah.... bridges.... ugh.
Edited by Webster (11/30/21 04:31 PM)
_________________________
"Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I'll meet you there."
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#1760962 - 11/30/21 05:39 PM
Re: The Bridge, The Middle Eight
[Re: Webster]
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FlametopFred
FlametopFred
Planeteer
Registered: 06/03/99
Posts: 8511
Loc: at the wave ranch dressing
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I'll often scroll back through song sketches and find something that works as the bridge for another song. Sometimes works quite well.
Exactly how small of a desert are we talking?
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#1760969 - 11/30/21 06:26 PM
Re: The Bridge, The Middle Eight
[Re: FlametopFred]
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Marty Gilman
Official Planet Sax Monster - Planeteer/Artist # 117
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 26539
Loc: Palm Beach, Florida- U S A
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Rondo form: ABACAD, used 400 years ago.
-m
_________________________
Can you play that an octave louder?
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#1760970 - 11/30/21 06:40 PM
Re: The Bridge, The Middle Eight
[Re: Marty Gilman]
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ulank
Forum Person
Planeteer
Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 20161
Loc: Chicago, IL
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You need a hook.
You need a brief escape from or twist on the hook to keep the hook from getting stale and/or to breathe new life into the tune.
Never play the same thing the same way twice.
Everything else is fair game.
_________________________
“This is no place for vacation.”
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#1760978 - 11/30/21 07:54 PM
Re: The Bridge, The Middle Eight
[Re: ulank]
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Webster
Planeteer
Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 16952
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You need a brief escape from or twist on the hook
Agree that a bridge often does not necessarily need to be a lengthy departure. A quick left turn and then back to the main road can be enough.
_________________________
"Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I'll meet you there."
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#1761007 - 11/30/21 11:16 PM
Re: The Bridge, The Middle Eight
[Re: Webster]
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Tao Jones
Planeteer
Registered: 06/13/00
Posts: 15064
Loc: CA
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So I want to share this bridge with you all, but this is not the finished recording. Still, you can hear the bridge that has me addicted. Like, if you came over to visit, I'd show this to you, so here is one of my latest three songs, and I'm sure you'll be aware of when the middle eight shows up:
My Love, My Love
Regarding that tortoise, Flametop, it's about three inches, and its name is Kronos. Not sure how small the little baby desert it came from was. Well, actually, it was a tiny sand desert in a washbasin where we saw her with her sisters.
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#1761023 - 12/01/21 12:39 AM
Re: The Bridge, The Middle Eight
[Re: Tao Jones]
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FlametopFred
FlametopFred
Planeteer
Registered: 06/03/99
Posts: 8511
Loc: at the wave ranch dressing
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super nice just needs more cowbell
and why yes, I would read the graphic novel adventures of Kronos the Tortoise: Escaping the Pocket Desert
hearing some gospelly organ inversions in that bridge
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#1761024 - 12/01/21 12:48 AM
Re: The Bridge, The Middle Eight
[Re: FlametopFred]
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ulank
Forum Person
Planeteer
Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 20161
Loc: Chicago, IL
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I'll often scroll back through song sketches and find something that works as the bridge for another song. Sometimes works quite well.
Exactly how small of a desert are we talking?
It’s not a baby desert in terms of age/size but a baby desert in terms of attitude.
Baby desert be like “oh it’s so hoooot!” and then tough guy desert comes by and says “suck it up ya big baby, you’re a desert. Don’t make me kick your hot sweaty ass.”
_________________________
“This is no place for vacation.”
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#1761028 - 12/01/21 01:27 AM
Re: The Bridge, The Middle Eight
[Re: ulank]
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FlametopFred
FlametopFred
Planeteer
Registered: 06/03/99
Posts: 8511
Loc: at the wave ranch dressing
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oh, so kinda like Baby Yoda
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#1761048 - 12/01/21 04:19 AM
Re: The Bridge, The Middle Eight
[Re: FlametopFred]
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Tao Jones
Planeteer
Registered: 06/13/00
Posts: 15064
Loc: CA
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It’s ABAABCA sorta A/B
Thanks for the spin, Flametop
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#1761214 - 12/02/21 08:11 PM
Re: The Bridge, The Middle Eight
[Re: Tao Jones]
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Tao Jones
Planeteer
Registered: 06/13/00
Posts: 15064
Loc: CA
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Hold on, hold on
baby, hold on 'til dawn
Hold on, hold on
baby, let's hold on 'til morning
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#1761396 - 12/04/21 12:00 AM
Re: The Bridge, The Middle Eight
[Re: Tao Jones]
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Jazzooo
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 55410
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
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Very nice song, and I like the middle 8. Middle eights are magic. “Life is very short and there’s no time…“ Etc. I think we all know that middle eights don’t have to be eight measures precisely. As a composer, I think bridges are actually my specialty. I’ve contributed them to my own songs, to my friends songs. Somehow the moment I start one I am already working my way back to the main song, even as I’m moving away from it.
_________________________
Dougrobinson.com
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#1761422 - 12/04/21 06:48 AM
Re: The Bridge, The Middle Eight
[Re: Jazzooo]
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Tao Jones
Planeteer
Registered: 06/13/00
Posts: 15064
Loc: CA
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Thanks for the spin, Doug. I’m really into the bridge on this tune.
Maybe someday I’ll try to get a bridge outta you.
I really like my songs to have three parts, though it’s not always a bridge.
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#1761428 - 12/04/21 07:22 AM
Re: The Bridge, The Middle Eight
[Re: Tao Jones]
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Jazzooo
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 55410
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
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That’d be cool.
_________________________
Dougrobinson.com
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#1761560 - 12/05/21 10:45 PM
Re: The Bridge, The Middle Eight
[Re: ulank]
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Tao Jones
Planeteer
Registered: 06/13/00
Posts: 15064
Loc: CA
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Very nice touch on all that guitar work, and your bridge fits well
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#1761632 - 12/06/21 05:03 PM
Re: The Bridge, The Middle Eight
[Re: Tao Jones]
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ulank
Forum Person
Planeteer
Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 20161
Loc: Chicago, IL
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Thx Tao.
_________________________
“This is no place for vacation.”
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#1761681 - 12/07/21 12:15 AM
Re: The Bridge, The Middle Eight
[Re: Webster]
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FlametopFred
FlametopFred
Planeteer
Registered: 06/03/99
Posts: 8511
Loc: at the wave ranch dressing
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for a while in my twenties, my songs got out-of-hand in terms of parts and sections .. sort of mini-epics or suites. Bandmates were open-minded but somewhat baffled. Listening back they seem to fit computer-game soundtracks. intro/A/B/A/C/B/D/A/E/A/D/C/B/B/B/outro with tempo and key changes (but not for all instruments at the same time)
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