#1760543 - 11/27/21 04:34 AM
Edit: now with video.... Zoom L20 review.
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JazAddict
Planeteer
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 18011
Loc: The West Coast of Florida
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Edit:
One of the lessons I learned was how NOT to use a harmonizer.  I did a serious faceplant here. It was my first time using it in a gig.
What happened is, I got to using the harmonizer in my studio thru an sm57. I could hear my horn, and move near or far from the mic to test the harmonies. I had to chart out all of those songs and all of the parts that I played oh, and I had to make multiple Harmony presets on anyone song because the keys changed and the harmonies didn't match and so I had to customized quite a bit of it. dumbass me, I decide to do the same technique on stage so I have a clip on for the sax clean, and the sm57 on a mic stand that I'll snug up to when I want harmony.... Well.... The stage was so loud that the 57 was picking up monitors and such. The harmonizer gate was snapping shut, the recorded and PA-ed harmonizer signal sounded like ass.
I recorded my sax and the harm on 2 different tracks. So after the show, in the comfort of my studio with my gear I re-recorded the harmonizer sections using a new track for the New Harmony. I paid close attention to trying to follow what I played in the original recording. I could see the orig sax track and hear myself so it wasn't too difficult. However I couldn't resist the opportunity to fix a couple of places where I missed one of my lines. So somewhere in there you'll see one scene of the vocalist in myself and a little bit of saxophone playing without the saxophone being in my mouth haha! 
I'm sad that the audience didn't actually get the effect of the harmonizer. Turns out it was not Audible in the PA, and the track I had was just a bunch of scratchy crap. So what you hear in the mix that I made is the original stage recording of my saxophone, but a second pass for the harmonizer track.
In the future I'll run the clip on to the harmonizer And to a separate channel... I'll still get 2 independent tracks of sax and harmony, but thru 1 mic.
Anyway here's the video of the song from the mix I posted.
http://Www.Cooperst.bobminer.net/jonishow/kissonmainlr.mp4
End edit.
I picked up this unit after an unsuccessful campaign to have you all talked me out of it. It replaced my presonus16 channel USB.
The attractions were
20 channels (16xlr plus 2 stereo lines)
6 monitor outputs.
20 track SD card recording.
Additional plusses ;
Really light.
IPad remote control
USB computer interface (20 track recording if you tire of the SD card)
Scene saving.
The complaints I read about were that the unit is so light it feels like a toy. And the inputs are extremely hot. Well I can attest to the feel of a toy. It is really really light and the sliders and pots are small and plastic. If you're looking for the mixer feel of rich Corinthian leather then look elsewhere. As for the inputs being hot I have to agree not only are they hot but the pots are not Equitable in their distribution of output. That is to say that the first 10% of the monitor outputs provides zero increase, then the increase accelerates so that the end result is a very touchy pot.
However, each channel has a pad and I was very easily able to find good input levels very quickly. I have to say however that I never did quite figure out how to get an input meter. I was merely using the the signal light which shows green or red. Hardly a exact science.
Whatever you may think of the feel, all credibility issues are resolved as soon as you power this unit on. All of the lights are crisp and bright. The color and intensity of these lights really make the unit snap. All of the plasticky issues immediately fade.
The maiden voyage of this unit was a gig that I've been working on for a few months. It's a Joni Mitchell tribute with a chick singer guitar player piano player, bass, drums, and sax. You may wonder how we can accomplish all of joni's pallet with this instrumenttion, I assure you that it's with great creativity and dedication to her art. The chick singers name is Joni, which makes it easier somehow. The bass player plays a 5-string fretless through a signal processor and gets a veryJaco-esque result. The drummer uses Bongos a lot and is somewhat unconventional in his trapset use. And I as the sax player attempt to cover all of the various background parts from horn lines to electric piano to background vocals to whatever. I also get to solo, but the really fun and interesting part is that I'm using a TC Helicon voicelive harmonizer.
I just like to say God bless David the sound man. This venue seats around a hundred and it's mostly a listening type place. It was sold out, so there was pressure to deliver. David has fairly extensive PA and monitoring set up with remote control from the back. After a brief conversation on the phone he let me essentially run the entire show through my Zoom L20 first and then to his PA. So I used the 6 outputs to send guitar, Joni voice, Bass, bass voice,sax, and sax harmonizer. He mic-ed the drums himself and I mic-Ed the drums too.... It looked like Billy Cobham was guest drumming  . In the end I recorded 20 channels of 48 / 24.
I set up the unit the night before with inputs for the guitars and Mics and everything I could imagine ahead of time.. I saved the scene, and I created a scribble strip and taped it to the bottom front. One criticism I have is that the sliders are very narrow and close together which makes for tricky channel selection In the Heat of the Moment. And a flashlight is an absolute necessity. However I was able to make all the connections and send the signals to the house with minimal hassle. I armed all the channels, hit record, turned my back on the unit, picked up my sax and played the show. I didn't take one second to look at it, and it performed exactly as advertised without a hitch. At the end of the set I hit stop , and I watched the unit save the data and go back to standby in ready mode. I recorded the second set much the same, and at the end of the show I hit stop and powered down.
The rest of this is a review of the in-studio functionality.
There's a three-way switch on the back the toggles the USB functionality. 1 position is computer interface , another position is card reader, and the last position is USB hub. Once you connect the mixing board to the computer, The card reader position results in the files from the card appearing on the computer screen. I was able to copy the audio files from the SD card to my computer for editing in my d a w. When the switch is in computer interface mode all of the 20 channels can be recorded out to a computer at the end of that USB cord. In fact because the SD card is so convenient I can't imagine why anyone would ever want to use this feature. The USB hub position enables the USB input to read them drives for backing tracks and such. I have spent zero time on this feature.
So that's it really. I was able to capture all of the gig while sending instruments and voices out to the PA and then transfer it all into my studio. There was not one glitch, not one hiccup, everything worked exactly as advertised.
A couple of cool things. The unit is set up with a large common area of controls that apply to whichever Channel you have selected. Among these controls is a 5 pot EQ. One is high, 2 is sweepable mid range from 800 to 2 K, 3 is the addition or subtraction of the frequency from number two, 4 is low, and 5 is low cut. Additionally there are two effects and pan, so you have to be comfortable with the idea of ensuring you know which channel you're affecting. They also give dual Purpose to the main xmixer section in that you can select the master output, or any of the one through six monitor outputs and THAT is what the mixer is affecting. Motorized faders would sure be nice here, but the expense of the unit doesn't jive.
I also finally use this at my weekly Jazz gig. Anecdotally everyone seems to think that the sound is a bit more warm and detailed than what we got out of the PreSonus mixing board. So that's it I couldn't be happier and highly recommend it.
Here's a mix
http://Www.Cooperst.bobminer.net/jonishow/kissonmain112421.mp3
Edited by JazAddict (11/30/21 06:29 AM)
_________________________
Liberty is inversely proportional to government. http://www.bobminer.net  Da Bears   Bob Miner
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#1760546 - 11/27/21 04:55 AM
Re: Zoom L20 review.
[Re: JazAddict]
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Liquidirt
Planet Dirtball
Planeteer
Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 18693
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
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Dang dude!
Oh yeah, Hi Bob!
That mix was PERFECT!! Your review was quite informative and what a testament with the MP3 you put up.
Good to see you around.
_________________________
My wife just left me. Probably because I'm so insecure... Wait, she's back. She just went for a coffee, my bad...
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#1760550 - 11/27/21 06:43 AM
Re: Zoom L20 review.
[Re: Liquidirt]
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Tao Jones
Planeteer
Registered: 06/13/00
Posts: 15061
Loc: CA
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You guys sound good. What an amazing piece of gear to be your board on stage and then track the whole thing for you also.
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#1760560 - 11/27/21 02:05 PM
Re: Zoom L20 review.
[Re: Tao Jones]
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calypso
Planeteer
Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 2404
Loc: mid-Missouri
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great tribute sound! yeah - the bass player has it
thanks for sharing
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#1760575 - 11/27/21 03:47 PM
Re: Zoom L20 review.
[Re: calypso]
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motown59
Planeteer/Artist # 238
Planeteer
Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 17848
Loc: California
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Congrats on receiving and implementing the new Zoom right into some work. Thanks for the detailed review
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kel
"I love what you guys are trying to do up there" ...from an audience member at one of my gigs.
Gear: Fender Medium pick
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#1760587 - 11/27/21 06:49 PM
Re: Zoom L20 review.
[Re: Webster]
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Alan
Nice guy! Cuddly Alan
Planeteer
Registered: 01/30/00
Posts: 7941
Loc: Sauchie, Scotland, UK
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Good Bob.
Loved the track.
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#1760589 - 11/27/21 06:56 PM
Re: Zoom L20 review.
[Re: Alan]
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JazAddict
Planeteer
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 18011
Loc: The West Coast of Florida
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Thx Y'all. It's a fun project.
This board great marriage of gig mixer and recorder.
Zoom hit the sweet spot for broadcasting musicians.
The mix isn't really about the board beyond the initial capture and transfer. I beat the holy hell outta those tracks in my DAw with edits and eq and compressors etc...in the interest of full disclosure.
Edited by JazAddict (11/27/21 07:01 PM)
_________________________
Liberty is inversely proportional to government. http://www.bobminer.net Da Bears Bob Miner
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#1760605 - 11/27/21 07:36 PM
Re: Zoom L20 review.
[Re: Mooseboy]
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Jazzooo
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 55396
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
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Don’t do it!
Oh wait, am I too late? In that case, congratulations! I look forward to hearing the mix later.
_________________________
Dougrobinson.com
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#1760615 - 11/27/21 09:19 PM
Re: Zoom L20 review.
[Re: Jazzooo]
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SkyWave
Planeteer
Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 14757
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So, does it come with a user manual that is comprehensible?
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#1760628 - 11/27/21 10:52 PM
Re: Zoom L20 review.
[Re: C Jo Go]
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JazAddict
Planeteer
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 18011
Loc: The West Coast of Florida
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Yes, the manual is usable. Frankly, the layout is very near many modern boards with the common channel area shared by all but points to which ever channel is selected. And same with mixer area. So if you have that prerequisite all the easier.
Moose, you won't regret buying one.
As a comparison, Allen & Heath has a 16/2 with 6montitor out, USB to computer, no SD card, prolly sounds delicious. 1500. So is 500 more worth it? Not to me.
_________________________
Liberty is inversely proportional to government. http://www.bobminer.net Da Bears Bob Miner
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#1760633 - 11/27/21 11:54 PM
Re: Zoom L20 review.
[Re: JazAddict]
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Mooseboy
That's "MR. Asshole" to you, buddy!
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 04/24/99
Posts: 37214
Loc: Black Mountain Hills of Dakota
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Okay, Bob, question for you about the tracks that are recorded to the SD card… are they dry and pre-fader? In other words, upstream of everything except the preamp?
_________________________
"My fingers go wiggle wiggle and the music goes jingle jangle and the crowd is happy"
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#1760634 - 11/28/21 12:01 AM
Re: Zoom L20 review.
[Re: Mooseboy]
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Mooseboy
That's "MR. Asshole" to you, buddy!
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 04/24/99
Posts: 37214
Loc: Black Mountain Hills of Dakota
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Okay, never mind, I just grabbed the user manual and looked at the Mixer block diagram. The answer is "yes".
_________________________
"My fingers go wiggle wiggle and the music goes jingle jangle and the crowd is happy"
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#1760922 - 11/30/21 06:31 AM
Re: Zoom L20 review.
[Re: Mooseboy]
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JazAddict
Planeteer
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 18011
Loc: The West Coast of Florida
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Bump for video edit in first thread
_________________________
Liberty is inversely proportional to government. http://www.bobminer.net Da Bears Bob Miner
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#1760934 - 11/30/21 02:33 PM
Re: Zoom L20 review.
[Re: JazAddict]
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motown59
Planeteer/Artist # 238
Planeteer
Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 17848
Loc: California
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The video ties together the audio with something to look at as reference. That's a pretty significant amount of work right there sir: mic'ing, new mixer, sending stems, multi-cam angles, lighting, video editing. On top of that the material is quite difficult and you're performing it live. Major bonus points for making it to the finish line.
I've worked with a few bands where a sax had TC harmonizers. The guy from AWB really had it down. I think all had the clip mics, then split that into effects and straight sax. It's been two to four channels sent to me. I imagine you'd need a lot of patches with appropriate intervals and scales.
To be honest, I didn't make it past the first chorus on the MP3. Without a video, audio mix and singing were the only things left to evaluate. I couldn't follow her pitch very well, and on phones there was ground noise and washed out phase cancellations, like her vocal seemed panned to the right, drums less distinct. The video had a louder mix, maybe brighter...or perhaps just fletcher Munson -ized. I'd imagine that interconnecting two mixers and all the mayhem of AC on stage was the source of 60hz hum. The video gives the eye something to look at while listening.
And yeah, you did all that f-ing work. The easy thing is for me to make the huge effort to click on it with headphones on my couch. Shame on me for becoming a "you ought to" 
All my BS aside, good playing, success on bringing all that together for a video and congrats on the Zoom. I think you'll really get a lot of utility out of it
Edited by motown59 (11/30/21 02:39 PM)
_________________________
kel
"I love what you guys are trying to do up there" ...from an audience member at one of my gigs.
Gear: Fender Medium pick
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#1760948 - 11/30/21 04:18 PM
Re: Zoom L20 review.
[Re: motown59]
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Mooseboy
That's "MR. Asshole" to you, buddy!
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 04/24/99
Posts: 37214
Loc: Black Mountain Hills of Dakota
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The video ties together the audio with something to look at as reference. That's a pretty significant amount of work right there sir: mic'ing, new mixer, sending stems, multi-cam angles, lighting, video editing.
_________________________
"My fingers go wiggle wiggle and the music goes jingle jangle and the crowd is happy"
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#1760999 - 11/30/21 10:48 PM
Re: Zoom L20 review.
[Re: Mooseboy]
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JazAddict
Planeteer
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 18011
Loc: The West Coast of Florida
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Thx for the response Motown.... Hell, I didn't even realize there was a 60hz hum.. Shows ya who ur dealing with 😏
I can't take any credit for the video, it was a house product. The sound on it was hideous. All I did was replace the original audio with my mix.
As for the difficulty of the music, it was. The problem I had was, I didn't realize how much I was playing by ear until we got onstage and I couldn't hear the bass
_________________________
Liberty is inversely proportional to government. http://www.bobminer.net Da Bears Bob Miner
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#1761358 - 12/03/21 06:51 PM
Re: Zoom L20 review.
[Re: Mooseboy]
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Mooseboy
That's "MR. Asshole" to you, buddy!
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 04/24/99
Posts: 37214
Loc: Black Mountain Hills of Dakota
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By the way, I'm sure you know I'm kidding about the "you bastard" part. This mixer wasn't even on my radar, and I know I'm going to be able to use it in a lot of situations.
_________________________
"My fingers go wiggle wiggle and the music goes jingle jangle and the crowd is happy"
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#1761559 - 12/05/21 10:45 PM
Re: Zoom L20 review.
[Re: Mooseboy]
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Mooseboy
That's "MR. Asshole" to you, buddy!
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 04/24/99
Posts: 37214
Loc: Black Mountain Hills of Dakota
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Okay, I finally got a chance to get this thing out of the box, and I have to say that this is the way I would design a mixer. Full disclosure I watched a couple of videos on how it works and peeked at the user's manual, but it took me about five minutes to be really comfy with this thing.
Now I wanna get out and USE IT!
Oh, and smelly will like that the other mixer I had for my small groups got sold to Music Go Round today. It could have been brand new (I take care of my stuff).
_________________________
"My fingers go wiggle wiggle and the music goes jingle jangle and the crowd is happy"
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#1761686 - 12/07/21 12:43 AM
Re: Zoom L20 review.
[Re: Mooseboy]
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JazAddict
Planeteer
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 18011
Loc: The West Coast of Florida
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Yay Moose 
I agree it's a very straight-forward layout, the perfect gig box for those that wanna record. Just excellent.
_________________________
Liberty is inversely proportional to government. http://www.bobminer.net Da Bears Bob Miner
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#1761690 - 12/07/21 01:39 AM
Re: Zoom L20 review.
[Re: Mooseboy]
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Ismellelephant
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 55982
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Oh, and smelly will like that the other mixer I had for my small groups got sold to Music Go Round today. It could have been brand new (I take care of my stuff).
I would have offered more than Mu$ic Go Round.
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We're all gonna lose an eye!!!
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#1761726 - 12/07/21 02:26 PM
Re: Zoom L20 review.
[Re: Ismellelephant]
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Mooseboy
That's "MR. Asshole" to you, buddy!
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 04/24/99
Posts: 37214
Loc: Black Mountain Hills of Dakota
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Call them. They'll sell it to you for more than they offered me. That way, we're all happy.
_________________________
"My fingers go wiggle wiggle and the music goes jingle jangle and the crowd is happy"
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--- way different snare/drum sound
