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#327369 - 11/07/03 08:24 PM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Jazzooo Offline
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Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 41080
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
One of the 414s bit the dust two nights ago--I got a loud rumble that woudn't quit. \:\( The other one just won the vaulted "hi hat mic" spot, though!

In other news, as of this post the overheads are the Earthworks; the snare is the C1; the kick is the ATM25. We're starting on toms right now, beginning with some cool-looking ADK mics.

The Millenia (not Millenium as I keep typing in haste) 8-channel pre is intriguing--it opens the sound up quite a bit. However, we were having some problems in the conversion process, with Dan's RME convertor into Thumper's DIFAT. It connected and we got sound, but it was severely compromised. After trouble shooting, we decided to go into the 2480 analogue inputs from the MIllenia. Sounds excellent so far.

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#327370 - 11/08/03 04:21 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
kid-surf Offline
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Registered: 09/21/99
Posts: 14908
I'm so damn tired........

That sucks about the 414. Give us the 411 on how the session is going (went?) when you can. Take some pics too if
you get a chance. Still would like to see where the magic happens. I'm allowed to call it magic, right? \:\)

How many songs are you guys gonna do in this three day period?


BTW- is Dot staying at the Jazzooo residence? You gave him a soft pillow, right? \:D

I'll respond to the other thread latter... tooooo sleepy.


KID-

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#327371 - 11/08/03 06:34 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
FalconEddy Offline
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Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 5609
Loc: Litchfield, NH, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jazzooo:


. . .the overheads are the Earthworks.


Did someone just ring a bell? . .I'm starting to salivate.

. . Falcon
_________________________
. . . but, what do I know?

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#327372 - 11/08/03 08:02 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Brian Glock Offline
Planeteer / Artist # 451
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Registered: 04/29/01
Posts: 1870
Loc: Baltimore
Did someone just ring a bell? . .I'm starting to salivate.

. . Falcon

sit boy, sit....goooood Falcon \:\)

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#327373 - 11/08/03 09:47 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Hayesland Offline
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Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 89
Loc: Encinitas, San Diego
Mahavishnu esq tunes.....Doug are you using Indian Modes....I wonder if I might pop on by while you guys pull some of this stuff off....I dont know if you have room in your studio for 3 guys ....me just hanging out keeping the humor alive!
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#327374 - 11/08/03 10:46 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Thumper Offline
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Registered: 09/09/01
Posts: 54
Sorry to hear about the DIFAT. Did you try the other one? Were you using lightpipe or TDIF? I misplaced the plugs for the lightpipe sockets so perhaps some nasty stuff got in there.... I would be interested to know what you think the problem may have been. Given the fiasco at UPS they may have taken a hit...
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#327375 - 11/08/03 11:16 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Jazzooo Offline
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Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 41080
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
Alright, it's 7:45 AM the morning of the sessions. I[m the only one awake right now in the house.

Yesterday was a fun but a looooong day of setting up mics, routing, troubleshooting, cleaning up the wires, and then doing it all over again. In a couple of hours we'll do it with the acoustic bass and then start recording for real.

"That sucks about the 414."

Yeah, but the truth is we got a better piano sound last night using two ADK mics clipped to the soundboard and one ADK TT lying on a piece of foam inside the piano! Pretty convincing. Dot will post style numbers and more precise placement notes at some point.

"Take some pics too if you get a chance. Still would like to see where the magic happens. I'm allowed to call it magic, right? "

I'd prefer that you call it genius, but magic will do. ;\) We're taking snaps and if I know Dot they'll be posted on our site before this week is over. It's getting pretty crowded in my studio right now! 10 tube traps, an awful lot of mic stands, plus I had to move the piano further into the middle of the room...

"How many songs are you guys gonna do in this three day period?"

The goal is 13. Some will require more work than others. By the way, I got a great, nasty synth sound for that solo in the fast song (still needs a name) by running my Yamaha S80 synth into an A Designs MP2 preamp. Really fat and smooth, but rank at the same time.

"BTW- is Dot staying at the Jazzooo residence? You gave him a soft pillow, right?"

Dot is sleeping in the backyard. We just let him in to place mics, then we put some food in a bowl on the porch and tell him we'll see him in the morning.

Re: ". . .the overheads are the Earthworks."

"Did someone just ring a bell? . .I'm starting to salivate. . Falcon"

Yeah, they're nice alright, especially through the Millennia. We also got the greatest sound on the Azola electric upright last night--we ran it direct into the Millennia, plus we stuck an Earthworks cardiod right in fron to capture the string sound. Sadly, we had to crank the pre up pretty hot to get a good signal, and when the drums came in...ouch. More drums in the mic than bass, even facing the other way and behind the Tube Traps. But for a ballad, that's the ticket.

"Mahavishnu esq tunes.....Doug are you using Indian Modes...."

Not really--it's more in the sprawling, building nature of one of the tunes, which is kind of a technoraga. And it might not even come out that way when we record it for real--we've only played it once before!

"I wonder if I might pop on by while you guys pull some of this stuff off....I dont know if you have room in your studio for 3 guys ....me just hanging out keeping the humor alive!"

I would love for you to come hang--where ya been, by the way?--but I'm pretty sure the consensus would be that it's too crowded in there already! Just with Dot and me and the drummer in there yesterday, the air was starting to get a little dense. It's pretty cluttered, and neither Dot nor I like clutter to begin with. I'm going to have to get through today, and if I think it's a good opportunity for a hang I'll let you and Left Nut know.

One comment I want to make about Dan is that we're well-suited for each other on a lot of levels. He's a very good musician, and easily hop on the drums or piano or guitar and sound immediately decent. But the bigger thing is that he's got the right frame of mind for an engineer--he doesn't panic. He's very easy to work with and open to suggestions, which makes me relaxed and keep me open for suggestions myself. The whole RME to DIFAT to RBUS thing could have really freaked me out yesterday, but he kind of calmly went through everything for about 45 minutes and just decided to pull the plug instead of investing more energy in it. (Thumper, we didn't think to use the second one--good idea, and I'll ask him if he wants to try it for Sunday.) There have been lots of examples of weird things that needed to be hunted down, and he goes about it systematically and logically. The other thing is that we've gotten a lot of gear on loan or for review from wonderful manufacturers, but we are only using that which truly works for the project. I like the honesty of this--no way would I want to plug something in to return a favor unless it adds something special, and he's the same way.

I think that's it for now--gonna go wake up Dan while the piano tuner does his magic. I'm sure we'll stop in here on breaks and give a progress report. Have a great day everyone!

[ 11-08-2003: Message edited by: Jazzooo ]

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#327376 - 11/08/03 11:31 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Jonathan Paul Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/23/99
Posts: 175
Loc: Radford, Va
Happened upon your thread. Great read!
Good luck with recording today!

JP
PS Call the fast tune "Brahms Lullaby"

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#327377 - 11/08/03 12:13 PM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
trueblue Offline
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Registered: 06/23/03
Posts: 37
Loc: CT
Can't wait to hear some of this music!!!

Michael

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#327378 - 11/08/03 12:40 PM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Jazzooo Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 41080
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
Hey, guys--thanks. And I think Brahms Lullaby might be taken already...I know, I'll call it Moonlight Sonata! ;\)

Well, what would a good recording thread be without a few bumps? The piano tuner didn't show up and, even though I spoke with him personally about the time and spoke with his appontment maker twice to confirm, and even though the man who runs the piano store checked the schedule and saw my name on it, he's now saying that he "didn't know" about the tuning. This puts us back at least 1.5 hours and the day hasn't even begun yet. I'm breathing deeply and trying to not get too distracted by the impact this might have on our ability to accomplish what I wanted today.

Ah, well.

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#327379 - 11/09/03 02:16 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Jazzooo Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 41080
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
The end of day one!

One the whole, it was good. We got some good takes, but it was also an excercise in patience and staying cool when things went wrong, starting with the piano tuner not showing and continuing on with some mystery noise popping up on the louder tracks. (As it turned out, the Earthworks overheads were overloading during certain cymbal crashes. Dot came up with an amazing mic placement on the drums--not really overhead at all, but out in front, aimed right at the edge of the cymbals and angle at 110 degrees. It was simply the best overhead mic sound I can remember hearing, and we're still using it on the ballads.)

So we solved the problem but you know how it is: you waste 20 minutes troubleshooting, and then you blow the next take by making a bonehead musical mistake, and it makes you feel like you might never get through that song no matter how long you work on it.

But even though we had some frustration, the band is sounding good and the recording really does sound wonderful. We're behind schedule now but everyone is pumped about tomorrow--like we got all the tweaky stuff out of the way today and now we get to just make music! Remember, today was the first time the band had ever played with a headphone mix; the first time the bassist had ever met Dan; the first time we ran the acoustic bass pickup direct, etc. Lots to figure out. Well, that's behind us now.

The best news is that Dan is going to leave the equipment set exactly as it is when he goes, so we can get back together later in the week and do more recording--that definitely takes some pressure off.

One quick mic update: we had these great sounding ADK mics on the mounted toms, but when you listened very carefully it sounded like they were being overloaded as well on the really hard hits. In the mix they were killer, but we just didn't want to risk using them. So...the new mounted tom mics? My pair of B1s, and the sound is terrific. And you should hear the B3 on the floor tom. It might make a believer out of the most recalcitrant mic snob. Or maybe not! ;\)

Sleep.

[ 11-09-2003: Message edited by: Jazzooo ]

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#327380 - 11/09/03 07:42 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
agapeburt Offline
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Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 1478
Loc: Griffin Ga
Which B1's are you talking about?
_________________________
Burt

Agape Audio Services just to pay for the toys
Owner Agape Computers to build the earthly home
FOH Mixer & Recording Studio Manager @ First Assembly of God to build the Heavenly one

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#327381 - 11/09/03 10:49 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Jazzooo Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 41080
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
"Which B1's are you talking about?"

Sorry--they are the Studio Projects B1. And the same goes for the B3. I can't express how completely satisfied I've been with these two inexpensive mics for toms. The B1 is only $79. The ADK mics we were using lounded a little fatter perhaps, but we're talking an almost unperceptible amount, at least to me. And obviously then B1s can handle far hotter signals without overloading.

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#327382 - 11/09/03 07:53 PM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Dot Offline
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Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 7098
Loc: NY
Just got done with two days of recording. Doug and I are pretty wiped out. With this kind of undertaking there's LOTS of little details to sort out, and LOTS of little gremlin-type things that surface and have to be resolved. Overall, though, I think it all leads to better results.

We're all pretty psyched about the sessions and the sonic results we're getting so far.

I'm off to Denver tomorrow and will leave everything set up so that JAZZOOO can record more sessions for the CD. My "job" for the most part on this project is to "get the sound" with mic pre selection, mic selection and placement, and just making sure everything is recording well. So, as long as things pretty much stay where they are, JAZZOOO'll be in good shape to continue the recordings.

Really nice recording this band. Great players and material always makes the experience enjoyable.

[ posted from Doug's house ]

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#327383 - 11/09/03 09:20 PM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
agapeburt Offline
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Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 1478
Loc: Griffin Ga
I wasn't sure, I have a couple of Behringer B-1's that I have used on a bass cab, and for kick and gotten decent results, not that I wouldn't like some better mics.
_________________________
Burt

Agape Audio Services just to pay for the toys
Owner Agape Computers to build the earthly home
FOH Mixer & Recording Studio Manager @ First Assembly of God to build the Heavenly one

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#327384 - 11/09/03 11:35 PM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Walrus44 Offline
Artist # 74
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Registered: 04/21/99
Posts: 10008
Loc: Inner Space
Nice thread, fellas. Thanks Jazzooo and Dot for posting the session. Consider it archived for safekeeping ;\)

Paul



[ 11-09-2003: Message edited by: Fool On the Hill ]
_________________________

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#327385 - 11/10/03 02:54 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Jazzooo Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 41080
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
Whew--Dot isn't kidding, I'm wiped out! It's almost midnight and I have to wake up at 4:15 to get him to the airport.

We just went through a bunch of the tracks and there is some really good stuff there. The gremlins Dan mentioned kept us from getting more done, but by the end everything was running smoothly.

One very interesting thing was that the band had never recorded with headphones before, and I don't think it's our style. Here we'd been rehearsing in my good-sounding room, listening to each other, and suddenly we were all listening to phones. It really gets in the way of intimacy, at least for us, and it doesn't sounds as good as the room sound either. The second to last song was kind of a waste of time because we were all burned out and our ears were starting to ring. But rather than ending on a low note, I suggested we take the phones off and play a ballad. Wow--instant knockout, full of space, relaxed, senstive. Lesson learned--headphones on the really dynamic stuff only (and only because we'll be using the Azola electric upright direct into the Millennia preamp, so we can't hear it in the room. Then again, I'm getting a splitter cable so we might run a bit of it into his bass amp and turn it up just enough to play with out phones...)

Whew--time to nap. See ya later!

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#327386 - 11/10/03 10:05 PM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Chimp Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 9997
Loc: Overland Park
Bump
_________________________
Go to Junior\'s Flat Six Buy the CD HERE See a video about the band HERE VS Artist # 126

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#327387 - 11/10/03 11:49 PM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Jazzooo Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 41080
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
Thanks, Chimpster!

For a technical update, take a look at my "Splitting Songs" thread. Argh.

Dot, if you're reading this, let's remember to never record everything as one long take again. Yes, it definitely streamlined things during the session, but I'm going on 8 hours of track management and I'm not even close to being finished yet.

Still, the stuff sounds pretty great today!

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#327388 - 11/11/03 10:08 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Monkey Offline
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Registered: 11/13/02
Posts: 1873
Loc: Kansas City
Doug I ran into the same problem. I recorded about six songs in one project and paid the price when mixing down. I figured I would record each song as a new project next time I record. I've been so busy with other things I have not fired up the 2480 since I sent it in for the Fix. I am sure I have forgotten how to use the thing.
All of that aside, I am eager to hear this stuff when you finish!

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#327389 - 11/11/03 11:33 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Jazzooo Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 41080
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
Get back on the horse, Monkeyman--dont let your recording chops go to waste! And check out the much simpler solution to splitting songs in that other thread. It's not perfect--my index singer is literally sore from so many mouse clicks--but it's significantly faster.

The material from our sessions is sounding better and better, each time I listen. I still haven't heard everything we did (3 hours and 21 minutes to be precise) due to wsting an entire day dicking around with the song splitting and copying to ACARD. The ong that worked without a single hitch or surprise was Brett's removable ACARD drive that I bought last week. I don't know how I would have gotten by if I couldn't have made a copy of everything right away onto the ACARD. I'm sure I would have thought of something, but it woudn't have been as good.

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#327390 - 11/12/03 05:36 PM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Chimp Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 9997
Loc: Overland Park
bump
_________________________
Go to Junior\'s Flat Six Buy the CD HERE See a video about the band HERE VS Artist # 126

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#327391 - 11/13/03 02:14 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Dot Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 7098
Loc: NY
Lots of pics and info on mics, pres, instruments here at my forum.
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#327392 - 11/13/03 02:26 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Jazzooo Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 41080
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
Not to mention pics of the band and my wife, Glenda--Dot, no pictures of Duffy and Phoebe? They will be so disappointed.
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#327393 - 11/13/03 02:41 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Dot Offline
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Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 7098
Loc: NY
the crew

Here's Doug kickin' back listening to the tracks with Dan - after a full day of set-up and two full days of recording later in the evening on Sunday, November 9, 2003.





[ 11-13-2003: Message edited by: Dot ]

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#327394 - 11/13/03 02:42 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Dot Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 7098
Loc: NY
the crew
left to right:
Duncan Moore - Drums
Ken Dow - Bass
Doug Robinson - Piano, Synths, Composer, Producer
Dan Richards - Recording Engineer



[ 11-13-2003: Message edited by: Dot ]

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#327395 - 11/13/03 02:43 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Dot Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 7098
Loc: NY
the crew
Dan Richards, Recording Engineer, with a few of his favorite mic pres, including Millennia HV-3D, John Hardy M-1, and A Designs Audio MP-2.





[ 11-13-2003: Message edited by: Dot ]

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#327396 - 11/13/03 02:45 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Dot Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 7098
Loc: NY
We tried, tweaked and tested different combinations of mics, placements and mic preamps on various sources, and here's the mic/pre list for the JAZZOOO sessions:

Kawai grand piano: a pair of ADK TL\'s set on omni to Millennia HV-3D and an ADK Commemorative Edition running through a John Hardy M-1 .

Drums:
Overheads: pair of Earthworks QTC-1\'s omnis OR a pair of Earthworks SR77\'s cardioids - running through Millennia VH-3D
Kick: Audio-Technica ATM25 - running to Roland VS 2480 mic pre.
Snare: Studio Projects C1 - running to Millennia HV-3D
Hat: AKG 414 B-ULS - running to Millennia HV-3D
Toms: Rack toms - Studio Projects B1\'s , floor tom - Studio Projects B3 - all running to Roland VS 2480 pres.

Basses:
Direct pick-up running through Sansamp DI into Millennia NV-3D
Red 5 Audio RVD1 large dynamic on neck of basses - running to Millennia HV-3D
on some tracks we used an Earthworks SR77 on neck of basses - running to Millennia HV-3D

Synths: running DI to A Designs Audio MP-2

[ 11-14-2003: Message edited by: Dot ]

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#327397 - 11/13/03 02:46 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Dot Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 7098
Loc: NY
The ADK mics arrive
A pair of ADK TC's, pair of ADK TL's, pair of ADK Vienna's and an ADK Commemorative Edition.



[ 11-13-2003: Message edited by: Dot ]

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#327398 - 11/13/03 02:48 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Dot Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 7098
Loc: NY
ADK on Kawai grand piano
Here's a shot of the final mic selection and placement. A pair of ADK TL's set to omni mode [ on clips ] and an ADK Commemorative Edition tube mic resting on foam pad near the side of the Kawai.
Pic #1





[ 11-13-2003: Message edited by: Dot ]

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#327399 - 11/13/03 02:48 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Dot Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 7098
Loc: NY
ADK on Kawai grand piano
Pic #2





[ 11-13-2003: Message edited by: Dot ]

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#327400 - 11/13/03 02:49 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Dot Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 7098
Loc: NY
ADK on Kawai grand piano
Pic #3 Close up of ADK TL on higher register and the ADK Commemorative Edition lying on foam pad.



[ 11-13-2003: Message edited by: Dot ]

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#327401 - 11/13/03 02:50 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Dot Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 7098
Loc: NY
Doug at Kawai
Here's a shot of Doug "Jazzooo" Robinson at his Kawai grand. Also to the left are two of the Azola basses brought in for the sessions.



[ 11-13-2003: Message edited by: Dot ]

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#327402 - 11/13/03 02:50 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Dot Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 7098
Loc: NY
The drum kit
Here's a shot of the Le Soprano drum kit all miked up.



[ 11-13-2003: Message edited by: Dot ]

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#327403 - 11/13/03 02:51 AM Re: *** The JAZZOOO/DOT Project ***
Dot Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 7098
Loc: NY
Earthworks on drum overheads
Two pairs of Earthworks mics are used on OH's. A pair of QTC-1's for the softer, more mellow tracks where space, dimension and imagery are a priority. And a pair of SR77's for the louder tracks. We had the QTC-1's up and were getting occasional mic overload on loud passages, so we switched to the SR77 for the loud stuff. The QTC-1's running through the Millennia HV-3D are stunning on drum overheads.
Here's a shot of the POV of the overheads to the drum kit. The OH array is set to 110 ORTF.


[ 11-13-2003: Message edited by: Dot ]

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