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#391050 - 12/10/05 01:43 PM Pimp my VS-2480 !
Dweil Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 25
Loc: The Netherlands
Hello all!

Let me introduce myself: My name is Danny, and I know nothing about music. But however, I know a little about electronics. So, what are you doing on this board you ask? I got this digital mixer, a VS-2480HD, for modification. On the internet there are a number of mods out for this mixer:

1) The channel distortion mod. Roland does this modification for free, but it probably cost 10 times more on shipping costs than the 32 resistors of 1 meg. So, this has to be done.

2) Pre-amp modification. Burr-Brown makes some excellent opamps, but Roland made a big mistake by not putting those in their VS-2480. I am retro-fitting these high quality opamps.

3) Upgrading the harddrive to 120GB.

So far, nothing out of the ordinary.

4) Transforming the VS-2480HD into a VS-2480DVD. After the legendary harddrive version, Roland made their best even better with the cd and dvd version. The DVD version being the better choice, we are upgrading to a VS-2480DVD.

Wait a minute! Can this be done? YES! It involes some expert soldering skills, but I have done this modification. IT IS POSSIBLE.

5) Roland uses the R-Bus for connecting 8 tracks of digital audio, where Yamaha's O2R has T-DIF connections. We are gonna make a junction box for converting these signals. You can also buy a DIF-AT but I'm convinced you can do without.

So, more to come...

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#391051 - 12/10/05 02:08 PM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
Dweil Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 25
Loc: The Netherlands
1) After removing 10 million screws that holds the back plate of the mixer, the insides are revealed. After also removing the CPU-board we can access the "jack board" on which the resistor modifications has to take place. If you want to know how, I refer to the various tutorials on the internet for doing this. I quickly move on to:

2) which is the opamp modification. I personally used 18 pieces of Burr-Brown's finest the OPA2134. 16 of those are for the analog channels and are located of the input board, 2 are also on the jack board for the headphone outputs.

Wait a second.. We are modifying the headphone outputs, but what about the monitor, master and the aux outs? It turns out these have the NEC UPC4570 opamp in it. Also, each input channel have 2 of these in them. All in surface mount technology.

Fortunately, I am able to change these as well. I ordered 34 of the OPA2134 in SMD and still have to change all of those 4570's. I am still waiting on the arrival of the opamps, so keep your fingers crossed for an unprecedented sound quality. However, the 2480 already sounds a lot better than before.

3) Upgrading the harddrive has to be the easiest modification: just change the drive in the holding bracket and format the new drive. I used a Maxtor 120GB 8MB cache for this job, costs about 90$ (67 euro's to be exact). Some remarks on the formatting: After this is done the VS2480 only shows the first 3 partitions. Do not worry, just turn your mixer off and on again, and all 10 partitions are shown.

Still more to come...

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#391052 - 12/10/05 02:24 PM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
Dweil Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 25
Loc: The Netherlands
4) The more interesting part: Turning the HD version into a DVD version. On the HD version, you can connect a CD burner using the SCSI external port. Internally, the DVD version uses a panasonic IDE-ATAPI laptop drive.

In my opinion, this is hardly a robust and durable construction. The tray feels wobbly like you would expect from laptop drive. Choosing for a slot-in version is a lot better, but I have chosen the NEC ND-3540 DVD burner, normally for desktop use.

At the side of the 2480 there is *just* enough room to house the DVD burner. Because this is an IDE burner, and it has to be connected by SCSI, an Acard AEC-7720U SCSI -> IDE bridge is used, just like the SongVault external DVD burner and harddrive has.

On the CPU board there has to be something soldered. What is the case: The CPU board only has an external SCSI port, but where the internal SCSI port goes.. nothing there. The PCB holes are opened with some solder-wick and a SCSI-style 50pin header connector is soldered in. Now the DVD burner can be connected!

Still more to come...

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#391053 - 12/10/05 02:32 PM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
redddog Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/13/03
Posts: 1063
Loc: ny
Wow....this guy's crazy.
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#391054 - 12/10/05 02:38 PM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
Dweil Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 25
Loc: The Netherlands




This is how the DVD looks. Like it always should have been there..

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#391055 - 12/10/05 02:58 PM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
Hong Kong Phooey Offline

Planeteer


Registered: 07/27/03
Posts: 5137
Loc:
Dweil,

Welcome to the VS PLanet!

This is fascinating! Thank you! Please continue... :thumb:

HKP
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#391056 - 12/10/05 02:59 PM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
LakeStone Karl Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 06/26/02
Posts: 15818
Loc: Eastern PA, USA
Pretty trick, there, Dweil....

Not bad for four posts.
_________________________



-karl

LakeStone On The Web

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#391057 - 12/10/05 03:06 PM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
Frank Griffith Offline
Planeteer/Artist # 300
Planeteer


Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 12363
Loc: "All Be Quirky", NM
Dwiel,
I thought I did good just to upgrade my VS2480CD to a VS2480DVD and install a new hard drive. I can't believe they didn't put a panel on back for this like they did for the VS8F-2 & 3 card installs so yes 38 screws to get inside.

Roland did the distortion fix for FREE for me. The only reason I paid to ship it to Roland is because I didn't trust the local dealer to do it speedy enough and insure it enough for me other wise it would have been FREE also. Al you do is make sure it needs the fix by running the test at Bret's site and then call Roland for an RA number and take it to a "Roland Authorized" Dealer, hince the RA number. 2 weeks from the day I shipped it, I recieved it!

I can't imagine digging into mine and doing what you did. I ran a post recently asking if this could be done so I'm glad to see it can. I doubt any average user of the VS2480HD could do the fixes you describe though. It would really be cool if you had a step by step document with photos of each step in PDF for others to use. Thanks for sharing this info with us, Awesome work, later, Frank.
_________________________
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VS2480DVD,3-VS8F-2/1-VS8F-3 & 5 plugins+Auto-Tune,MassHiRes EQ,UA Bundle,Chrometone,Soundblender/TC Reverb,T-Racks.Dyns BM5A's,Roland DS50A's,M-Audio 2.1,PreSonus TubePre w/Rode NT1000,SM57&58,MXL V57&V67,B-5,XV5050,Yamaha P200,Oxygen8 V2,Behring V-amps,SansAmp DI, Taylor,Gibsons,Fender,Ric,Washburn Bass.2 RPC-1's,PC Sonar 4, Acid 5, Wavelab etc.

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#391058 - 12/10/05 03:07 PM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
Gothbin Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/13/02
Posts: 725
Loc: The Netherlands
Hello Dweil, nice to see another Dutch planeteer!!! Where are you from in the Netherlands? I'm from Heemskerk (roughly between Haarlem, Alkmaar and Amsterdam). Are you doing the mods as a job or is it goodwill for a friend or so?

Hope the mods turn out right, and hope to read a review on it from your side.

Welkom op de planeet!!! (welcome on the planet)

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#391059 - 12/10/05 03:15 PM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
Dweil Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 25
Loc: The Netherlands
5) For connecting R-Bus to T-Dif we first have to find out how the 25 pin connector of the R-bus is lined up:

1 - Not a clue on what signal goes here
2 - Channel 1/2 input
3 - Channel 3/4 input
4 - Channel 5/6 input
5 - Ground
6 - Channel 7/8 input
7 - Not a clue on what signal goes here
8 - Channel 7/8 output
9 - Ground
10- Channel 5/6 output
11- Channel 3/4 output
12- Channel 1/2 output
13- Not a clue on what signal goes here
14- Not a clue on what signal goes here
15- Ground
16- Ground
17- Ground
18- Frame synchronisation output
19- Ground
20- Ground
21- Frame synchronisation input
22- Ground
23- Ground
24- Ground
25- Not a clue on what signal goes here

I made a very basic non-tested version of a converter, so let's hope it works...

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#391060 - 12/10/05 03:20 PM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
Dweil Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 25
Loc: The Netherlands


Non-tested R-Bus to T-Dif converter.

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#391061 - 12/10/05 04:06 PM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
Ed Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 282
Loc: Rochester, NY
Dweil
Did you actually get this NEC ND-3540 DVD drive to work in backing up to DVD. I was under the impression that it had to be a Panasonic drive to work, due to the constraints of the operating system to recognize a DVD drive other than Panasonic. I know other brands of cd drives are recognized but didn't know any other DVD drives would work. Please comment on the DVD backup.
Thanks
ED.............
_________________________
ED...

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#391062 - 12/10/05 04:18 PM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
Randyman... Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/30/02
Posts: 8670
Loc: Houston, TX
Very cool, man!

I'm very interested in your RBUS-to-TDIF mod. If it is really that easy, I'll crap my pants!

Keep up the killer mods
_________________________
Audio + PC is the place to be
Randy V.
Audio-Dude/Musician/Crazy Guy
Other Crap The Radio Devils
My PC Components My Mics My Gear


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#391063 - 12/10/05 04:24 PM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
BmC Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/10/01
Posts: 1067
Loc: Bear River, Nova Scotia, Canad...
:clap: Is it posssible that this fella is gonna make all the other genius look like amateurs :banghead: . LOL
that rbus- tdif convertor will garner some interest, if it works that is.
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#391064 - 12/10/05 06:13 PM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
MIKE@cave studios Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 3276
Loc: L.A.
I would like to hear your machine in action...Even though you've done all this work you still should buy the beers
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#391065 - 12/10/05 06:26 PM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
redddog Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/13/03
Posts: 1063
Loc: ny
Has all this stuff worked out so far? Have you tested everything to make sure it works? If it does, Roland's gonna be looking for you, my friend.
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#391066 - 12/10/05 07:10 PM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
The Un-dr. Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/06/03
Posts: 2352
Loc: St. Paul, Minnesota
Say, it's not April 1st, is it?! ;\)

I guess I'd be impressed if I understood any of it.... :rolleyes:

But, hey, sounds cool; if it works and you publish the plans and specs well enough for a local technician to do the work, I'd probably consider buying them from you.

Watching and learning....
_________________________
"No matter how cynical you get, it's impossible to keep up."--Lily Tomlin

"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music."--Aldous Huxley

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#391067 - 12/11/05 01:43 AM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
Dweil Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 25
Loc: The Netherlands
 Quote:
Originally posted by Ed:
Dweil
Did you actually get this NEC ND-3540 DVD drive to work in backing up to DVD. I was under the impression that it had to be a Panasonic drive to work, due to the constraints of the operating system to recognize a DVD drive other than Panasonic. I know other brands of cd drives are recognized but didn't know any other DVD drives would work. Please comment on the DVD backup.
Thanks
ED.............
Yes, of course. I already made a backup DVD with it. Like the cd->dvd tutorial said, you can only use the DVD-R(W) standard. ATAPI is a pretty universal standard. Unlike SCSI where protocol diffences can cause a lot of troubles.

Your mixer only talks to the Acard adapter in SCSI language, so as long as you use that adapter, everything should be fine. You can even buy an IDE->Compact Flash adapter and back up to CF's or microdrives!

I didn't try DUAL LAYER DVD-R's yet but in theory, it should work and you'll have 8.5GB on a single disc available for backup.

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#391068 - 12/11/05 02:04 AM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
Dweil Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 25
Loc: The Netherlands
 Quote:
Originally posted by redddog:
Has all this stuff worked out so far? Have you tested everything to make sure it works? If it does, Roland's gonna be looking for you, my friend.
Everything I described here actually WORKS (apart from the R-Bus to T-Dif converter, which I'll have to test first). Of course, this hasn't been a straight forward development. Do not try to:

- Upgrade the memory. The VS2480 has 16MB of memory, while the SH3 CPU that is used supports a max of 64MB. If you'll try this you'll get "RAM CHECK ERROR" on the display.

- Try to connect a DVD burner in slave on the internal IDE port. Your mixer simply will not recognize this.

- Try to connect a harddrive in the same way.

- Try the two things above with the secondary IDE port. This port was initially being tested for connecting an laptop-style cd burner when the engineers from Roland developed it. It was quickly abandoned for being too slow and unreliable. Afterwards, this port is disabled in software.

- Try to push the button on the CPU board during boot. Your mixer will say "COPY FLASH TO FLASH ... ERROR". This button marked "SW2" is used in production for putting software into the VS2480 without a drive being attached.

Again, I look at the VS2480 from another point of view. It is simply a computer wich processes digital audio data. I don't know anything about music and my claim with the opamps being better sounding comes from my friend, who is the proud owner of this fully modified VS-2480DVD and trusts me thorougly (I hope...)

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#391069 - 12/11/05 02:43 AM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
Randyman... Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/30/02
Posts: 8670
Loc: Houston, TX
Awsome. :thumb:

Do you build PC's as well? Just curious what you've got going on over there .

_________________________
Audio + PC is the place to be
Randy V.
Audio-Dude/Musician/Crazy Guy
Other Crap The Radio Devils
My PC Components My Mics My Gear


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#391070 - 12/11/05 04:42 AM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
teknail2004 Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/27/04
Posts: 427
Loc: Australia
:thumb:
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#391071 - 12/11/05 08:29 AM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
Fruitjuice Everywhere Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/18/03
Posts: 49
Loc: Virginia
Unta Gleeben, Glauben, Globen! I woke up this morning and read this thread. I am going to Germany next week and on my fly-over, I am going to drop my 2480 with a couple of chutes attached, and pray that it lands in my new Dutch friend's front yard for the upgrades. Wow! Keep it coming Dweil! This is the best post since first seeing Dan 7's guitar girl!
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#391072 - 12/11/05 10:03 AM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
Ed Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 282
Loc: Rochester, NY
Dweil.
Glad to see your getting all this stuff to work. I tried to get several brands of DVD drives to work some time back before Bretts DVD song vault was put out. I couldn't get anything but the panasonic dvd drives to work. Maybe they've updated the ROM on the Acard converter to recognize some new DVD drives. Could you tell me what's the version and date on your converter. I was also under the impression that the operating system had to check that it has the apropriate drive connected in order for it to work. Maybe roland has updated the manufacturers list of drives that will work in their newest operating system. Maybe their using other DVD drives than the Panasonic in their newer DVD units? What operating sys are you using to make this work? Sorry for all the questions but I'm curious why I couldn't get this to work Over a year and half ago. As far as the duel layer writeing is concerned, doesn't the comands have to be written in the operating system to accept these discs. We really could use a operating system update.
Thanks for helping everyone out here with your mods, we really do apretiate it.
Thanks
ED...............
_________________________
ED...

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#391073 - 12/11/05 06:20 PM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
Menges Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 121
Dweil... I'm putting 2604's on inputs and 2134's on headphones/monitors... how many do you need for each? the tutorial on vs2480 doesn't say much about parts. Also, if you can, could you post a pic of the 2nd input opamp and the aaux sends, so I know which ones to change?
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#391074 - 12/12/05 01:01 AM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
C Jo Go Offline
pseudo musician
Planeteer


Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 21682
Loc: carmel valley,ca
And we thought you just spent days surfin' up in Scheveningen---and sipin' beers @ the KurHaus. Or traveling around late at night, in Sneek, gathering unsuspecting pretty girls.... :thumb:
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AUDIO KINESIOLOGIST

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#391075 - 12/12/05 01:22 AM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
WinyardPro Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/28/02
Posts: 3934
Loc: Great Southern Land.
There are plenty of DVD Drives that work, because manufactures just put their name on them. Many are just OEM and are made for known companies under licence. Doesn’t mean that every DVD Burner will work though.
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WINYARD-PRODUCTIONS.COM

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#391076 - 12/12/05 07:02 AM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
Arjan van Gog Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1243
Loc: The Netherlands
He Dweil,

Nice job on the HD-DVD conversion. Indeed looks like it was always there. A very nice option for owners of a 2480HD, combines the advantage of a removable HD and a built-in DVD. Care to write a how-to for anyone who wants to try this?

 Quote:
1) The channel distortion mod. Roland does this modification for free, but it probably cost 10 times more on shipping costs than the 32 resistors of 1 meg. So, this has to be done.
Actually Roland Central Europe (formerly Roland Benelux) will pick up and return your 2480 free of charge from and to any official Roland dealer at no charge so the total cost for this mod, at least in the Benelux, is zero.

I'd be interested to see your progress with the R-Bus to TDIF. Just remember that R-Bus carries not only digital audio but MIDI too. I suppose they do use seperate wires for the MIDI signal but I have no idea if the TDIF and R-Bus protocols are similar enough that they could be translated with just some passive electronics. Are they that similar?

Groetjes,
Arjan

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#391077 - 12/12/05 07:17 AM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
agapeburt Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 1478
Loc: Griffin Ga
I would love to see the TDIF adapter work, just think, any MOTU 2408 could bring 3 R-Buss with 24 tracks at once into a computer.
Man would that leave open a bunch of options!!

But for some reason, I just don't think that it will be that simple.

Keep up the cool stuff,Dweil. I would love to see photo's and a step by step on the DVD conversion to the HD. I would have been considering an external, but that would be better.
_________________________
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Agape Audio Services just to pay for the toys
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#391078 - 12/12/05 08:05 AM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
eggwheat Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 07/21/04
Posts: 219
Loc: South Coast UK
sorry if this a dumbass question, but does having a DVD drive mean you can burn masters at 96K?
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#391079 - 12/12/05 08:27 AM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
WinyardPro Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 08/28/02
Posts: 3934
Loc: Great Southern Land.
 Quote:
Originally posted by eggwheat:
sorry if this a dumbass question, but does having a DVD drive mean you can burn masters at 96K?
You can do that with CD-Rs (or .ISO files) you just need to record @ 96kHz. Just export the final mix as 24 bit/96kHz tracks. All the DVD burner gives you is more backup. 4.7 G/Bytes instead of multiple 700MB CD-Rs. \:\)

There are other ways to back-up VS2480 data and make use of dual-layer DVD-Rs 8.5 G/Bytes, for that, see VirDIS below under sponsors. ;\)
_________________________

WINYARD-PRODUCTIONS.COM

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#391080 - 12/12/05 08:48 AM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
Arjan van Gog Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1243
Loc: The Netherlands
 Quote:
sorry if this a dumbass question, but does having a DVD drive mean you can burn masters at 96K?
If you're referring to an audio-DVD the answer is no. The DVD drive can only be used to backup and restore projects, import WAV files from either CD-R or DVD-R, export WAV files to CD-R (not DVD-R) and burn audio CD-Rs (at 44.1k).

But you can ofcourse export 96k WAV files to CD-R, you just won't be able to play them on a CD player.

L8r,
Arjan

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#391081 - 12/12/05 09:08 AM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
Big nate Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 452
Loc: Southeast Georgia
I'm interested in the opamp mod, any more information on this?
_________________________
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#391082 - 12/12/05 11:27 AM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
Dweil Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 25
Loc: The Netherlands
I will make some more pictures as soon as I've got the 34 SMD opamps here. Then the whole mixer has to be opened up again and I'll make some pics.
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#391083 - 12/12/05 11:33 AM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
Dweil Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 25
Loc: The Netherlands
 Quote:
Originally posted by Menges:
Dweil... I'm putting 2604's on inputs and 2134's on headphones/monitors... how many do you need for each? the tutorial on vs2480 doesn't say much about parts. Also, if you can, could you post a pic of the 2nd input opamp and the aaux sends, so I know which ones to change?
You will need 16 opamps for the analog channels, and 2 for the headphone outputs.

Pictures will come later on.

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#391084 - 12/12/05 11:38 AM Re: Pimp my VS-2480 !
Menges Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 121
ok... even though at the top of this page you confused me!!!!! Thanks!!!!
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